View source for Painless means no material pain but spiritual life

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[[Category:Pain]]

[[Category:Means]]

[[Category:Material]]

[[Category:Spiritual Life]]

== Conversations and Morning Walks ==

=== 1974 Conversations and Morning Walks ===

<span class="q_heading">'''That means painless means everything finished? Then let me enjoy this pain. After being painless means everything is finished. No. Painless means no material pain but spiritual life. That is painless.'''</span>

<span class="CON-statistics">'''[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris|Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris]]:'''

Karandhara: Actually, Zen philosophy, they accept reincarnation, that the self keeps on taking bodies until he becomes selfless, and it's only in the human form that he can develop that selflessness.

Prabhupāda: Then they have to accept good work and bad work.

Karandhara: Yes, they do. They have a similar understanding of karma so far as the material self is concerned, and that the soul or the self takes on different forms until it becomes perfectly selfless. And then it merges back into the nondescript, the cosmic force. So I don't know if this young man's versed in Zen philosophy...

Prabhupāda: That is our definition, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Śūnyam means, you have to give up all material desires. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. But the desire should be synchronized. Ānukulyena kṛṣṇānu..., you have to desire to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.

Karandhara: Well, they come to the point of trying to give up all material desires. But at that point they say there's nothing, there's no self...

Prabhupāda: That is their ignorance, or they do not understand, or they do not try to explain because the followers will not understand. That is our also point, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], to become desireless. But after becoming desireless, what is it? Just like you become painless from the disease. That means painless means everything finished? Then let me enjoy this pain. After being painless means everything is finished. No. Painless means no material pain but spiritual life. That is painless. (French)

Karandhara: Their point is they come... Zen Buddhism or Buddhism goes as far as trying to obliterate the material ego.

Prabhupāda: No, it is clear as you said, as you said that unless he becomes desireless. That desire means material desire.

Karandhara: Yes. That's actually what they're speaking about when they say desire.

Prabhupāda: So they are not so advanced that there is spiritual desire. That they do not understand. But so far the material desirelessness, that is accepted by us also. (French) It is something like this. Just like a child without education at home is simply doing mischief. So the parents want to make him  mischievousless. But if the parent does not know that he should be given better engagement, otherwise it cannot be mischievousless, that he does not know. (French)</span>