View source for He wants to know if we are born good and then we learn the bad thing?

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{{terms|"He wants to know if we are born good and then we learn the bad thing"}}
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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithProfessorsFebruary191975Caracas_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="8" link="Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas" link_text="Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas">
<div class="heading">No, so long we have got this material body—you are born good or bad, but when you do not get this material body—you remain in your spiritual body—that is good.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas|Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Where is the beginning of evolution, is that what he's saying? Where does evolution begin?</p>
<p>Devotee: What is the principle of evolution?</p>
<p>Hṛdayānanda: How can it be that we're advancing if we can become a dog in the next life, is that it, or something inferior? Where is the question of progress?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What is that? No, by nature's way there is evolution, from dog to fox, fox to this, that, that. That is... There is a law. But again one can fall down. In this way one comes to the human form of body. That is the chance of self-realization. But if in the human form of life, he does not behave like a human being—he behaves like cats and dogs—then he gets again cats and dogs. So if by his work, he gets degradation to get the body like a dog, then again it will take millions of years to come to the human form of life. Therefore intelligent man should be very careful. He should not say, "I don't care." That is very risky life.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that he thinks that not everyone's looking for God, but people should be asked whether they want to be something different than what they are, and he thinks we need something practical, not simply something of faith.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that every practical things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You ask any question and the solution is there.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): They say that they say the same thing of the Bible.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. You follow Bible. That is also nice. But you do not follow. That is the difficulty.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that in this world we're all so limited, and we're like prisoners, and the more laws that we submit to, the more we become slaves.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no more law. You simply follow the law given in the Bible, as you are speaking of Bible. The Bible says, "Thou shall not kill." Why you are violating? (break) ...if you don't follow, then you are not spiritualist; you are fool. You remain again in this, then ignorance.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said, "In others words, is all humanity a fool then?"</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Otherwise why there is Bible?</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said that it's impossible for, to follow... that you said we have to approach a perfect person, but that means we have to accept so many restrictions and this is actually impossible. It cannot be done.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then it is impossible for you to become a perfect man.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Why should the knowledge be so limited?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, it is not limited; it is unlimited. But to come to the unlimited, you have to cut down your limited knowledge.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said he noticed that there are only men here. Does that mean that women cannot become transcendental?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why not? There are so many women. Knowledge is not restricted to men. It is open for everyone. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,</p>
:māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
:ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
:striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
:te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
:([[Vanisource:BG 9.32|BG 9.32]])
<p>(break) Everyone is open. Just like university. University is not restricted to a certain class. It is open for everyone. Everyone can go, take the knowledge. And similarly, prison house is open for everyone. (laughter) Now you make your choice whether you go to university or prison house.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How can one cut down his limited knowledge if he's habituated to material life?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Well, habit can be changed. Just like nobody is habituated smoking from the very beginning of his life, but by association he learns smoking. And again, by association he can give it up. These boys, American, European boys, they were habituated so many bad things. Now they have given up.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How can we know what is good and what is bad? How can we define them?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: When you come to the good, you will understand what is good. When you come to the bad, you understand what is bad.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He does not understand.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Suppose now there are a class of thief and class of honest men. So if you associate with the thieves, you will learn how to steal. But you understand also that "People hate us." The thieves, the thief class, they know that the people hate, the police arrest, the police put them... They also know that. But because they are habituated, they cannot give it up.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying stealing is relative. Some people steal because they watch television, some people steal because they're hungry or they need things...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He still does not understand how we can say that one activity is bad or good. For example, he said that we gave the example of thieves, but that implies that previously there was already a standard that "This is good, and this is bad." But he wants to know how he can know definitely what is good and what is bad.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: To become God conscious is good, and anything else, all bad. God is good. Therefore, if you are God conscious, you are good, and if you are not God conscious, then you are bad.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): If God created man?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. God created everything. God created man, God created dog, God created demigods, God created everything.</p>
<p>Professor: He made us imperfect.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, He is not imperfect.</p>
<p>Professor: No, God made us imperfect.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, you have got that... Just like you have stolen, and you have gone to the prison house. That means judge is not imperfect; you are imperfect.</p>
<p>Professor: If God has not created us imperfect?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, God has created perfect, but you have become imperfect by misusing your independence. God is fully independent. You are part and parcel of God. Therefore you have got that quality, independence. When you misuse that, you become bad; when you use it properly, you remain good.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Yes. How do we make ourselves bad?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore the Bible is there: "You become good like this." If you don't do, then you become bad. The Bible says that "Thou shall not kill." If you don't kill, then you are good. If you kill, you are bad.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said there is no guarantee of perfect knowledge because at one time we had perfect knowledge, but as you said, we threw it away. So therefore...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, you misused the perfect knowledge. Just like here is perfect knowledge: Bible says, "Thou shall not kill." You are misusing, you are killing. That is your fault.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He wants to know if we are born good and then we learn the bad thing?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, so long we have got this material body—you are born good or bad, but when you do not get this material body—you remain in your spiritual body—that is good. Just like...</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said, "So no one can be born bad, but by contact with humanity he becomes bad."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then make the humanity good.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said that if he sees that he is not harming anyone, then he is always right, if he is not harming anyone.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That he thinks. But the authority thinks otherwise.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says he doesn't know.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then that is his mistake. Just like a man does not know what is law, but that is no excuse.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that he can accept that man is born perfect, but that his development is imperfect, but he cannot accept that man is born imperfect.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, that we don't say. Therefore man is advised to associate with perfect so that he can keep his perfectness.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says, "The problem is there are so many millions of people, but there are so few perfect persons."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: One perfect person is sufficient to teach thousands of imperfect persons.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says he thinks you are right because the example is Buddha and Christ, and so many people follow them.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: They are perfect, but the followers do not follow the instructions. That does not mean they are imperfect.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that it is not enough, contact with a perfect being, because, as you said, so many people come into contact but change teachings. Therefore it's necessary also to realize the knowledge.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to keep the original teaching in perfect order, without any interpretation.</p>
<p>Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He thanks you very much for explaining so many things.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So our request is to study this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and try to help it.</p>
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