View source for In the modern world, Swamiji, wouldn't you think that the same person has got to combine in himself the qualities traditionally ascribed to all the dharmas?

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[[Category:Modern]]
[[Category:World]]
[[Category:My Names - Swamiji]]
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[[Category:I Think (Prabhupada)]]
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[[Category:Dharma]]
[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1971]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1971_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="4" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1971 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1971 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithDrKaranSinghNovember251971Delhi_0" class="quote" parent="1971_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="29" link="Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi" link_text="Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi">
<div class="heading">That is a fact, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi|Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: I want to revive brāhmaṇa-ism, kṣatriya-ism. Unless you do that, there cannot be any peace. Dharma. Dharma means this classification dharma. There are two kinds of dharmas. One, material dharma, and another, spiritual dharma. Actually, dharma means spiritual. But so long we do not come to the standard platform of spiritual dharma, we have to regulate our life in such a way that we may come ultimately to the spiritual platform. So that material dharma is that, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 4.13|BG 4.13]]).</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Guṇa-karma vibhādayo.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So the brāhmaṇa's dharma, the kṣatriya's dharma, the vaiśya's dharma, and the śūdra's dharma.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: In the modern world, Swamiji, wouldn't you think that the same person has got to combine in himself the qualities traditionally ascribed to all the dharmas? Therefore, a man must be..., he must have the knowledge.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is a fact, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: He must have the integration of the guṇas.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Integration of guṇas, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate ([[Vanisource:BG 14.26|BG 14.26]]). That is transcendental position. You have to transcend all the three guṇas. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā. The Vedic system is dealing with the three kinds of guṇas—sattva, raja, tama guṇa. And Arjuna was advised to come to the platform of nistraiguṇya, nirguṇa.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Caturthaḥ(?).</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Caturthaḥ(?) platform. And that is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says,</p>
:māṁ ca (yo) 'vyabhicāreṇa
:bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
:sa guṇān samatītya etān
:brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
:([[Vanisource:BG 14.26|BG 14.26]])
<p>So two sides we are trying, to define the natural division of human society. The intelligent class, the administrator class, the productive class, and the worker class. There is natural division. You cannot say that everywhere simply there are intelligent class of men. No. Because we are infected with the three kinds of the material modes. You cannot expect all men are on the same level. That is not possible. Someone is in the modes of goodness, someone is in the modes of passion, someone is in the modes of ignorance, and someone is in the modes of mixture. That is the natural division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaisya, śūdra. Those who are purely in goodness, they are brāhmaṇa. Next to that, passion, kṣatriya. And next to that, vaiśya, mixture. And next to that, śūdra. And next to that, caṇḍāla.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: But is it not necessary today for each person to have..., for example, he's got to have his..., he's got to have knowledge of the dharma. He's got to have the capacity to act...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: ...of the kṣatriya.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: He's got to have the capacity for commerce and trade and (indistinct), for example.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that...</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Can't we all be combined in a single person rather than dividing them into four, at least in the present age?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. That is not possible. Suppose if you are a kṣatriya, you are ruling, you cannot go to work in the field.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: We go to work in the office, which is equally hard, I can assure you. (laughs) We go from morning till evening. I wish I could go to the field, in fact.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You cannot put a cart before a horse. That is not possible. Of course, the Communists, they are trying to do that, but they have also failed. I went to Moscow. They have got a worker class and they have got a manager class, manager class. They cannot do without it. It must be there. Someone must be their manager. So this division of the society... Just like natural division, one can study by his own body. This body has got four divisions—the head division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. All of them are important in cooperation. But the hand cannot do the work of the leg, nor the leg can do the work of the head.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: But they are all four in the same body, Swamiji...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is wanted.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: That is what is wanted.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. Either you may be brāhmaṇa or either you may be kṣatriya, either you may be vaiśya or śūdra, it doesn't matter. But you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is your perfection. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Vibhāgaśaḥ is accepted, varna āśrama. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Everyone has got particular duty to perform. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam ([[Vanisource:SB 1.2.13|SB 1.2.13]]). You remain kṣatriya, you remain brāhmaṇa, you remain śūdra, it doesn't matter. But try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa by your activities. That is wanted. Just like Arjuna. He remained a kṣatriya. He was a fighter, he was declining to fight, and Kṛṣṇa said, "What is this nonsense, you decline to fight?" "No, I do not wish to kill my kinsmen." Then he was..., he accepted Kṛṣṇa's discipleship, śiṣyas te 'ham ([[Vanisource:BG 2.7|BG 2.7]]), "Now I am puzzled, I do not..., I am..." Yes. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then Kṛṣṇa taught him Bhagavad-gītā. So he remained a kṣatriya. But Kṛṣṇa certified, bhakto 'si priyo 'si ([[Vanisource:BG 4.3|BG 4.3]]). So business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter whether you are kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. It doesn't matter.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: But surely Kṛṣṇa is not unsatisfied.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Kṛṣṇa is fully satisfied already.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is satisfied because He is the supreme. He does not require your help to be satisfied. But if you help Him, then you become satisfied.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: So we satisfy ourself by...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is the duty. Just like these fingers. Suppose if this finger is not working, I have got another finger. But if this finger does not satisfy me, that means it is diseased condition. It is not a normal condition. Similarly, we are parts and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 15.7|BG 15.7]]). So we are parts and... If we do not satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that means we are in diseased condition, unhealthy.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: We are not fulfilling our true dharma.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If this finger does not satisfy my body... Suppose I want to scratch here, a finger is doing it. If it cannot do it, that means it is diseased. So anyone who is not satisfying Kṛṣṇa, he is diseased condition. That is material life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam ([[Vanisource:BG 13.9|BG 13.9]]). Material life means full of misery. And when misery comes? When one is diseased.</p>
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