View source for Our movement is that beginning of spiritual life is to surrender. If there is no surrendering, then it is no advance. If that thing is lacking, there is no beginning even, what to speak of advancement

<div id="compilation">
<div id="facts">
{{terms|"If that thing is lacking, there is no beginning even, what to speak of advancement"}}
{{notes|}}
{{compiler|Visnu Murti}}
{{complete|ALL}}
{{first|04Mar11}}
{{last|04Mar11}}
{{totals_by_section|BG=0|SB=0|CC=0|OB=0|Lec=0|Con=1|Let=0}}
{{total|1}}
{{toc right}}
[[Category:Krsna Consciousness Movement Is...]]
[[Category:Beginning]]
[[Category:Our Spiritual Life (Disciples of SP)]]
[[Category:Our Surrender (Disciples of SP)]]
[[Category:If There Is No]]
[[Category:Not Surrender]]
[[Category:Our Advancement (Disciples of SP)]]
[[Category:Thing]]
[[Category:Our Lacking (Disciples of SP)]]
[[Category:There Is No]]
[[Category:No Beginning]]
[[Category:What to Speak Of]]
[[Category:Our Advancement (Disciples of SP)]]
[[Category:Prabhupada and Training]]

</div>
<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
</div>
<div id="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="7" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1974 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1974 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
</div>
<div id="RoomConversationwithBhurijanadasaandDisciplesJuly11974Melbourne_0" class="quote" parent="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="135" link="Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne" link_text="Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne">
<div class="heading">Our movement is that beginning of spiritual life is to surrender. If there is no surrendering, then it is no advance. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the beginning. If that thing is lacking, there is no beginning even, what to speak of advancement. That is discussed already. Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na paraṁ gatiḥ. This is the beginning of spiritual life. The word is called disciple. Disciple means who accept discipline. If there is no discipline, where is disciple? And "disciplic succession." We have used this word. Not that discipline is finished by one man, no. It will continue to go by succession. That is perfect.
</div>
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne|Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: That is sense. Otherwise nonsense, that's all. It is up to us to take up the sense or nonsense. The direction is there. What Arjuna said?</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa:</p>
:arjuna uvāca
:naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā
:tvat-prasādān mayācyuta
:sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ
:kariṣye vacanaṁ tava
:([[Vanisource:BG 18.73 (1972)|BG 18.73]])
<p>"Arjuna said, My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy, and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: This is sense.</p>
<p>Bhūrijana: Prabhupāda, I think my illusion is not yet dispelled.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then unfortunate.</p>
<p>Bhūrijana: Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Continue. (laughter) Who can check?</p>
<p>Bhūrijana: I want to understand in this sense though, exactly how far your instructions are because I know I want to do it, what you say, but I am not exactly...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You are old student.</p>
<p>Bhūrijana: Yeah.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If you still cannot understand what is my instruction, then how can I help you? New students may say like that. You are intelligent, educated, old student. If you say... (long, silent pause) Our movement is that beginning of spiritual life is to surrender. If there is no surrendering, then it is no advance. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). This is the beginning. If that thing is lacking, there is no beginning even, what to speak of advancement. That is discussed already. Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na paraṁ gatiḥ. This is the beginning of spiritual life. The word is called disciple. Disciple means who accept discipline. If there is no discipline, where is disciple? And "disciplic succession." We have used this word. Not that discipline is finished by one man, no. It will continue to go by succession. That is perfect.</p>
:evaṁ paramparā-prāptam
:imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
:sa kāleneha (mahatā)
:yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
:([[Vanisource:BG 4.2 (1972)|BG 4.2]])
<p>Find out this verse. As soon as the disciplic succession is missing, then everything is lost.</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa:</p>
:evam paramparā-prāptam
:imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
:sa kāleneha mahatā
:yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
:([[Vanisource:BG 4.2 (1972)|BG 4.2]])
<p>Prabhupāda: Naṣṭa, this word is used.</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: "This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's it. As soon as the discipline broken, then everything is lost. Now you can dance like a dog. That will not affect. Nobody can do that unless there is spiritual strength. Now, last night Madhudviṣa Mahārāja was singing, and so many men became enthused to dance. So unless there is spiritual strength, it cannot be done. Others cannot ask and dance. No, that is not possible. That is not possible. Unless there is spiritual strength, you cannot enthuse others. So we should have to acquire spiritual strength by following the regulative principle. Sanātana Gosvāmī has therefore forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇam pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam śravanām kartavyam: "Those who are not following Vaiṣṇava principles, one should not hear from him." Why? It is Kṛṣṇa-kathā, Kṛṣṇa's. Now sarpocchiṣṭa-payo yathā: "Milk is very good, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent, it is no more good. It is harmful." So one must be Vaiṣṇava. Unless one is Vaiṣṇava, there is injunction, "Don't hear from him. It will be poisonous." So one who is not following Vaiṣṇava principle, he cannot speak about Vaiṣṇava principle. It is harmful. That is forbidden by ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī. If somebody says, "What is the harm? He is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa..." He cannot chant. That is a show-bottle chant. That is not effective. But even taking that "Anyone who is chanting, let me hear," no, Sanātana Gosvāmī says, "No, don't hear." It will be harmful more than... In other words, if you are not following the Vaiṣṇava principle, you don't chant. It will not be effective. Did you not see the difference last night? There were many others. They could not join in the dancing. So far gathering men, if you do not gather intelligent men, then what is the use of gathering men? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: "If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars?" If one is perfect Vaiṣṇava, that is sufficient. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is... There are so many... Such a big instruction book. It is not that, whimsical. But still, we recommend that "Go on chanting." This will help you anywhere. That is also good. It is exactly like that: if you ignite wood for fire, if the wood is dry, the fire takes place immediately, and if it is moist, then it takes time. Only smoke will come. So smoke is not required. The blazing fire required. Then if from the wood, if simply smoke comes you cannot (chuckles) take any work out of it. There is traces of fire. As soon as there is smoke, there is fire, but it is not useful. It is useful for troubling your eyes only. What is smoke? Smoke means also fire. But you require blazing fire, not smoke fire. So blazing fire takes place if the wood is dry, immediately takes place. Otherwise, you go on enjoying the smoke. Be satisfied. "When there is smoke, there is fire." But it will not be useful. (chuckling) It will be useful, gradually the wood will dry. It takes long time. Just try to understand this example. You require the flame, not the smoke. But if you are satisfied with the smoke, that is your business. If you simply be satisfied—"The smoke is also fire. Unless there is fire, why the smoke comes?"—that's a good argument, but smoke will not help you. You require the flame. That flame cannot be produced if the wood is wet. Wet means materially contaminated. Is that example all right?</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: Yes, that's true.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. So pure devotional service is flame. All other things are smoke. You must get the flame. Otherwise, your business will not get done. So naturally we fan when there is smoke, "Phat, phat, phat." As soon as flame comes, there is no smoke. So again fan it. Let the flame come. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise be satisfied with the smoke. You are cooking with smoke for three hundred years. (laughter) There is a very humorous story that one man... He was a yogi. So he approached. It is not story, it is fact. Approached one big man that... As people are very inquisitive to see some yogic magic, so the rich man asked the yogi, "What you have learned about yogic perfection?" "No, I can in the severe winter season, I can dip myself in the water up to this and practice yoga." "So, how long can you remain? At night?" "Yes. No, I can remain the whole night or as long as you..." "All right, if you remain within severe cold, within water, overnight, then I shall give you such and such presentation." So he agreed, and he did it. And in the morning, when the man came, so he said, "Oh, you are successful." Then he did not... Either he had no money or he did not want to give. So he had his one advisor, "So what shall I do?" "No, no sir, you cannot give money." "Why?" "Now, there was heat." "So how there was heat?" You know, in India they give ākāśa-pradīpa? During Kārttika month they... This is our Vaiṣṇava principle, I think. The lamp is there on the head of the roof. On the roof there is a bamboo, and in the top of the bamboo there is light. So this man was in the lake. And his advisor said, "You have seen that the lamp was there, and heat was coming." (laughing) That lamp was three miles away and still, he advised, "Yes, there was heat. Therefore he could tolerate." So what can be said? He is poor man. So there was another servant of that big man. So he appealed to him that "See, I took so much trouble and he did not pay me anything." "So don't worry. I shall see that you are paid." What is that? Some presentation?</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>