Prabhupāda: They like it. So many, hundreds of preparations... We can give at least three hundred preparation, many varieties, simply on grains and milk product and fruits. That's all. We don't kill animals, don't kill birds, no. But we make very nice preparations. Everyone likes. So this is one of the restriction, that you cannot take anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the second restriction. And the third restriction is no intoxication—no smoking, no drinking, even no tea taking, no coffee taking, nothing: These American boys they are accustomed to all these habits very naturally, but they have given up. They don't take. In our temple there is no tea-taking, no coffee-taking, no cigarette smoking, nothing of the sort, you see. This is the third restriction. And the fourth restriction is that you cannot take part in gambling or some unnecessary sporting because you have to utilize your time. Your time is very short. If you miss this opportunity of human form of life... Because we do not know when death is coming. It is not that because I am old, I am nearing death, and you are young, you are not nearing death. Who knows that you may die before me? So there is no certainty. So the principle is that because this human form of life is so important to perfect oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he should not waste even a minute. You see? So therefore we don't allow unnecessary sporting. You see? This is simply waste of time. So no illicit sex life, no meat-eating or animal food, no intoxication, no gambling. So every student has to follow these four prin... Otherwise I don't initiate. I don't take cheap students, that "You can do whatever you like, and you pay me some money.
Whatever you like (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"whatever I like"
|"whatever he like"
|"whatever he likes"
|"whatever she likes"
|"whatever they like"
|"whatever we like"
|"whatever you like"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We first of all prepare or cut into pieces, offer to the Deity. Then we take. Now, the idea is that we take the remnants of food offered to Kṛṣṇa. Now, when you offer something to some respectable person, you ask him, "What can I offer you?" If I go to your house and if you want to offer me something to eat, you will ask me what I wish to eat. That is the etiquette. So similarly, we have to offer Kṛṣṇa what Kṛṣṇa likes to eat. So how we can know? In this book we have the things, what Kṛṣṇa wants. He says, "You give Me foodstuff, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ (BG 9.26) fruits, flowers, grains, milk, like that." So our diet is Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Therefore... Kṛṣṇa wants these things. We prepare these things, and we eat the remnants of food. If Kṛṣṇa says that "You give me meat," then we can offer Kṛṣṇa meat also. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me fruits, flowers, grains." So we have no quarrel with the meat-eaters. Let them do whatever he likes. But our concern is that unless Kṛṣṇa takes, we don't take. So in order to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, this is necessary, just like an important segment of the work. We cannot accept anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this diet, this sort of diet, as you have tasted in our love feast, that is important. We cannot take outside the scope. So in that sense, diet is important. Besides that, from health point of view also, you require a balanced food—carbohydrate, starch, protein, and fat. That is scientific. So fat we are getting from milk, butter. So if I can get fat from milk and butter, why shall I kill the cow and animal? This is humanity. My necessity is to get some milk and fat. The cow is supplying you milk and fat sufficiently. Why should you kill it? I am going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious, and I am killing another God's creature? So it is very important work to select that: if anyone is serious to become God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore in our program meat-eating is forbidden. So that is very important in that sense. The next question is, "So, what is the significance..."
Prabhupāda: Now for our disciples, we don't give anything cheap. Our first condition is character, moral character. You see? So unless one is accepting moral character, we don't initiate, don't allow him in this institution. And this Maharishi was, "Oh, you do whatever you like. You simply pay me thirty-five dollars and I'll give you some mantra." You see. So people wanted to be cheated, and so many cheaters come. They do not wish to undergo some disciplinary action, you see? Anything. They have got money. They think that "I shall pay," and immediately he'll get the money.
Journalist: Instant heaven.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their position. Just like people are trying to go to the moon planet. I have given my opinion. You have seen in the Los Angeles Times? This chance is very remote.
Journalist: Oh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? Suppose in your country, you have got some quota for immigration. Within this planet, if somebody comes, without your immigration department's order, nobody can enter. How do you expect in that planet where the people are more advanced, they are called demigods, they are living for ten thousand years, how you expect that you go and you are immediately enter into the moon planet? And they are selling tickets, reservation. You see? Everything, they make a fun of it, you see?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The psychology is that your people, all the western people, especially youngsters, they are hankering after something, you see? But the difficulty is... Just like me. If somebody comes, "Swamiji, initiate me." I immediately say that "You have to follow these four principles," and he goes away. And this Maharishi, he did not put any restriction, you see? Just like a physician, if he says that "You can do whatever you like. You simply take my medicine, you'll be cured." That physician will be very much liked. You see?
Journalist: Yes. He'll kill a lot of people, but he's very liked.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) And a physician which says, "Oh, you cannot do this, you cannot do this, you cannot eat this," it is a botheration. So they want something. That is a fact. But at the same time, they want it very cheap. Therefore the cheaters come and cheat them. They take the opportunity. "These people want to be cheated. Oh let us take the advantage." You see. Otherwise, they are advising that "You are God, everyone is God. You just realize yourself, you have forgotten. You take this mantra, and you become God, and you become powerful. Whatever you like, you can control. And there is no control of senses. You can drink, you can have unrestricted sex life and whatever you like." People like this. "Oh, simply by fifteen minutes meditation, I shall become God, and I have to pay only thirty-five dollars." So many millions of people will be ready, "Oh, let me." I mean, thirty-five dollars in your country is not... But that much, thirty-five multiplied by million, it becomes thirty-five million dollars. (laughs) And we are crying here because we cannot bluff. We say that if you actually want, you have to follow these restrictions.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Kṛṣṇa, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Mahārāja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to you. This is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. It is stolen property. There is another example in Indian words, that hira cauri kiya abhicaurya, khira caurī kiyā abhicaura. Hira means diamond, and khīra means... What is that called? Cucumber, a small? So if somebody has stolen a cucumber from other's tree, so he is captured. And another man has stolen some diamond. He is also arrested. So from the police, both are thieves. If the man says, "Oh, what I have stolen? I have stolen a little cucumber. It is nothing, worth not even two cent or one cent. Why you are arresting me? He is thief. He has stolen a big diamond," no, in the eyes of law, he is also thief; he is also thief. Everyone is thief. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is thief. He'll not be happy. The best thing is to return whatever he has possessed: "Kṛṣṇa, it is Yours. Take." Finish business. Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song... Now, everything we possess in mind. Actually we don't possess. Suppose I am possessing all this. As soon as I go from this body, all possession will remain here. I'll not take anything. So I don't possess. But in mind I am thinking, "Oh, this is mine. This is mine. Where is another box? Why it is not coming?" And possessing in mind. If I leave this body, either the box here or in the Chicago or anywhere else, what is the difference? There is no difference. But because I am possessing in the mind, "Oh, that box is mine," so I am asking, "Whether it is Chicago or it is here, it is there? Why it is not coming?" So possession in the mind. Actually you don't possess. Mānasa deha geha. So by that supposingly possessing, we have got our mind, we have got our body, then expansion of body, wife, children, family, society, country. In this way we possess so many things. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora: "Now whatever I possess, either in the mind or in the family or in the society or in the body—whatever I have got, I surrender unto You, my dear Kṛṣṇa." Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu..., arpilun tuā pade nanda kiśora: "Nanda-kiśora, O the son of Nanda, I give unto You." Marobi rakhobi, yo icchā tohāra: "Now whatever You like,
Prabhupāda: And agree with you. Our surrender means we agree with Kṛṣṇa in everything, although we are individual. If Kṛṣṇa says you have to die, we die; out of love. But we are individual, I can deny "Why shall I die?" That reality I have got. Just like Arjuna was asked, "Now I have taught you Bhagavad-gītā, now whatever you like you do," yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), "as you like." He doesn't touch the individuality. But Arjuna voluntarily surrendered: "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), "yes, I shall do whatever You ask." He changed his decision. He decided not to fight, but he agreed, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. This agreement, this is oneness. Not oneness does not mean mix up homogeneously. No, He keeps his individuality. Kṛṣṇa keeps his individuality, yathecchasi tathā kuru: "Now whatever you like you do." He says, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), "I shall do what you say." So this is oneness. Not to lose individuality. Because we cannot lose our individuality. We are individually made originally. Kṛṣṇa is individual, we are individual, everyone is individual. Merging means merging in that total agreement. That is liberation. Total agreement without any disagreement. And that is the perfection: to keep individuality and agree with God in total agreement. That is perfection. And imperfection so long we are in rebelled condition that is material because one who has a slightest desire of disagreement with Kṛṣṇa, he cannot live there. There the only predominant figure is Kṛṣṇa. So one who is trained fully to agree with Kṛṣṇa, they are accepted as associates. Bhagavad-gītā says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ pradadyate: (BG 7.19) after many, many births of cultivating knowledge in spiritual life, a fully conversant, wise person surrenders unto Me. Bahūnāṁ janmanaṁ ante: after many, many births. How he surrenders? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) oh! Kṛṣṇa is everything. The Vedānta-sūtra gives hint, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), what is Brahmā, what is supreme? Athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about Brahmān, the Supreme. The answer is Brahman is that or He who is the original source of everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not in the beginning. When they are little advanced.
Śyāma dasi: Prabhupāda, can you tell me what you want for prasādam today?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The same.
Śyāma dasi: Eggplant or string beans?
Prabhupāda: Whatever you like. You give me four capātīs, little rice, and little vegetable. That's all. Don't put much butter, ghee. Yes.
Śyāma dasi: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Old age, we cannot now digest too much butter. That creates air. Although at night I don't take anything. Once I eat. And in the morning I take little fruits. That's all.
Hayagrīva: Mr. Ginsberg was telling me downstairs that the President is going to come to Ohio State.
Allen Ginsberg: Nixon.
Hayagrīva: Nixon? President Nixon?
Allen Ginsberg: In one month for the graduation.
Hayagrīva: He told the students to chant...
Allen Ginsberg: Hare Kṛṣṇa to Nixon.
Prabhupāda: That is nice, that in the morning you work and after prasādam you are at ease, take rest or read or whatever you like.
Hayagrīva: There's plenty of time. From two o'clock until bedtime. That's eight hours. From two to ten. You can't chant sixteen rounds in eight hours?
Paramānanda: Well, I have to begin my duties with the cow at five o'clock. So we'll be finishing prasādam and rest at about four o'clock. That leaves me one hour, which is filled up with other odd chores.
Hayagrīva: Well, then, if you have to take... You have an extra hour you have to work in the afternoon. You have an extra hour?
Satyabhāmā: Two hours.
Kīrtanānanda: Since you milk the cows in the evening like that, you could take an hour or so off early. That would be all right.
Hayagrīva: Then you can take off at one. If you put in an hour in the afternoon with the cow, then take off an hour from one to two to chant.
Prabhupāda: So we can go there. Join with Kṛṣṇa and dance happily without any botheration.
Hayagrīva : Haribol.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) We can have so many connection with Kṛṣṇa, as friend, as servant, as parents, as lover, whatever you like. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). You cultivate that consciousness, how you like Kṛṣṇa. He is prepared to accept you in that capacity. And that makes a solution of all problems. Here nothing is permanent, nothing is blissful, and nothing is full of knowledge. Here... This year we held examination on bhakti-śāstrī, and here is the answer of a girl, Himavati. She has written very nice. I have read it. So we are training these boys and girls to Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to the Kṛṣṇa science. Anyone can take advantage of it. It is a very nice thing. So you also try to understand, and if it is nice, you take it up. You are after something very nice. Is my proposal unreasonable? (chuckles) You are all intelligent boys. Try to understand it.
Gurudāsa: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: And you have got a very good talent, music. Na vidyā sangīta uttamam. The Vedic mantras were all through music. Sāma Veda. Sāma Veda is full of music.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, that is second. First of all surrender. Then what way you shall surrender, that is different thing, another stage, more confidential. First of all there is surrender. First of all you enter this house or this room. Then you ask, "How can I serve you?" That is different. First of all there is no surrender, or without surrender, full surrender, there is no entrance in Kṛṣṇa. No entry. Because those who revolted against Kṛṣṇa, those who wanted to become Kṛṣṇa by imitating Him, they are here in this material world. Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa (BG 7.27). (Hindi) Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), creation, that all the living entities who have come into this created world, they have revolted. They wanted to become Kṛṣṇa, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they have given the chance, "All right, you become Kṛṣṇa. You do whatever you like. I will give you facilities. You want to become Brahmā? All right, you become Brahmā. And you want to become the worm of stool? I will give you the facility." So these living entities are rotating. Sometimes he is becoming Brahmā, sometimes becoming the worm of stool, sometimes this, sometimes that. In this way he is changing body. This is material world. Or when he comes back again, back to Godhead, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Then you'll haven't got to come back. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). So we have to prepare for that position, how to go back to home, how to go back to Kṛṣṇa and engage ourself in His service. Then the question of either as mother or friend or... That will be considered later on. First of all let us try how to enter kingdom of God. That is condition, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66), that "You surrender unto Me fully, giving up all your other engagements. Then I take charge of you." Ahaṁ tvāṁ mokṣayiṣyāmi. Mokṣa is there. For a Kṛṣṇa-bhakta is nothing, mokṣa, or liberation. He'll do it. He'll look after it.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So we were talking of Ajamila, a brāhmaṇa resident of Kānyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid asit patir..., asit kaścid dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were know as dāsya, dāsī. (aside:) Don't make sound, "cut, cut." Silent. Dāsī... The kṣatriya kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the kṣatriya system. So Ajamila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, dāsī, dāsī-pati. Actually one should be husband of dharma-pati, religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed. Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā... Ajāmila nāmnā. His name was Ajāmila. Why the sound is in...? It is not possible to charge? "Cut, cut cut, cut." Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. Sadācāra means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadācāra. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadācārī, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way..." This is going on nowadays. "Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization." But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be sadācāra. This is the beginning of sadācāra, to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic mantras or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. This is the beginning of sadācāra. So sadācāra means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in sadācāra, regulative principles, for them... Just like animals, they are not expected to follow any... Of course, by nature they follow regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Although ātmā, the self, is different from this body—that is the first lesson in spiritual life—still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog's body you suffer according to that. If you get a man's body... Suffering will be there more or less as soon as you get this material body. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said, na sādhu mānye: "You are acting abominable. It is not good because you are already suffering in this body." Otherwise why you are stealing? You are in want of money. You are suffering. Therefore necessity is now law. Therefore you are accepting. Even you know that stealing is bad, still, you are accepting it because that is a suffering. So for some of your activities in the past life you are now suffering, and if you go on, continuing committing this nonsense, then you will again, you will have to again accept a body and you'll suffer. Therefore garhitāṁ. There are so many things to know but these things are not discussed nowadays. Very cheap thing: "You can do whatever you like. You simply meditate and become God, that's all." So much cheating is going on everywhere, all over the world. So-called yogis, they go, "Oh, you meditate. You are... And as soon as you realize, you are God, within six months." No. Therefore in this age the only method... It is a concession to the fallen people of this world, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. They 'll not be able to follow all the regulative principles; therefore they must commit all kinds of abominable activities. Under the circumstances the śāstra or God has given a concession that you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and gradually you will be elevated to the highest position of spiritual life. Other things you cannot follow. You are already fallen. So you take to this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense. And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity that you cannot have illicit sex life.
Prabhupāda: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.
Guest (4): Is secularism coming in way of spreading spiritual education?
Prabhupāda: Secularism is a bogus thing. You see? That is an indulgence, "Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever religion you follow, that's all..." No. That is not good. The state should be responsible for the spiritual progress of the citizens. Now, especially in our country, we say it is Hindustan, Bhāratavarṣa. So we are not giving the bhāratīya or Hindu spiritual cultural education. So that's a great loss of the secular state.
Guest (4): Do you think that the present democratic system will be able to impart a spiritual education?
Prabhupāda: No.
Guest (4): Then what system do you advocate?
Prabhupāda: Of course, so far Vedic culture is concerned, they advocated monarchy because the one man's training, a good king guided by the brahminical culture, although it was autocratic sometimes, but because the king was very cultured there was no possibility of doing any harm to the citizens. But democracy means simply they are given the post by votes, and they may be all rascals. Then what they can think of good to the citizens?
Guest (4): Mahārāja, don't you think that monarchy (unclear)
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When it is nil, no more sleeping, no more eating, that is spiritual..., perfection of spiritual life. So we cannot make it nil so long this body is there, but our policy should be like that. Policy should be like that. We shall not eat more, we shall not sleep more, we shall not mate more. Those who are gṛhasthas, they can have sex life only for producing children, that's all, no more. And those who are sannyāsī, brahmacārī, they have no sex life, there is no question of sex life. Sex life is prohibited. But it is a concession for them who cannot live without sex life. That is married life. Otherwise, sex life is not very important thing. Just like there are brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, they have no sex life. Therefore, this sannyāsa, to go out of home by force, that means to avoid sex life, sannyāsa. You see? I think those who have got children, they should take sannyāsa now and preach. That is my idea. Not (indistinct) idea, because all the great sages, they waited if they are married. Just like Kapila Muni..., Kardama, Kardama Muni. Kardama Muni, he was a great yogi. So he was thinking of marrying, so Kṛṣṇa sent him good wife, Devahūti, a king's daughter. So he thought, "I was thinking of marrying, so Kṛṣṇa has sent. All right, let me marry." But he made a condition to her father that "I can accept your daughter as my wife so long she has no children. As soon as she has children, I shall go away." So the father agreed, "Whatever you like, you can do. I'm just placing my wife in your custody." So the sannyāsī..., when there is a child of the wife, I think one can accept sannyāsa.
Prabhupāda: Of course, to search out guru is very nice. But if you want a cheap guru or if you want to be cheated, then there will be many cheater gurus. But if you are sincere, then you'll have sincere guru. People want to be cheated because they want everything very cheap. But just like we are asking people no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. So people think it is very difficult, it is botheration. And if somebody says, "No, you do. Whatever nonsense you like do. You simply take my mantra," they will like it. So the thing is that they want to be cheated; therefore cheaters come. They don't want to undergo some austerity. Human life is meant for austerity. But they are not prepared to undergo austerity. Suppose some cheaters come. They say, "Oh, no austerity. Whatever you like you do. You simply pay me and I'll give you some particular mantra, and you become God within six months." (Laughter) And that is going on. So you want to be, if people want to be cheated like that, the cheaters will come.
Woman Interviewer: So do you think people should beware?
Prabhupāda: They should be serious.
Woman Interviewer: I mean if someone in all seriousness wishes to find the spiritual life and happens to finish up with the wrong guru, I mean should they beware?
Prabhupāda: According to Bhagavad-gītā, there are four classes of men who deride at God and four classes of men who approaches God.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Atheist class of men, who are always engaged in sinful activities, and therefore fools... They don't believe in the next life. Therefore they are fools. There is next life. They say, "Oh, we don't care for next life. Let us do whatever we like." That is a foolish proposition. Because there is next life. Just like a man he becomes irresponsible. He says, "I don't care for government or law. I can do whatever I like." That means he's risking his life. As soon as he'll be arrested, he'll be punished. Therefore he's mūḍha, rascal. Anyone who is defying the kingdom of God, he's a rascal. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ, is lowest of the mankind. God consciousness is meant for human beings, and if a person defies God, then he's the lowest of the mankind. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. His knowledge has been plundered by the illusory energy. He may be academically a very big title holder, but if he's not God conscious, then his knowledge has been taken away. Real knowledge has been taken away. Asuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These are the symptoms of the atheist class of men. So on the whole, at the present moment, God consciousness must be spread if actually they want peace and prosperity. And those who are in charge of religion, religion means God consciousness. Everyone should combine to spread God consciousness. That is the immediate necessity at the present moment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You accept, surrender to God, then you become God conscious.
Journalist (2): And what happens to me then?
Prabhupāda: Then you become happy. And the Bhagavad-gītā says that God said that "You surrender unto Me. I give you protection from all sinful reaction." That is the statement of God. So if surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or God, that "God, so long I was forgotten about You. Now I surrender unto You. You do whatever you like," everything is all right.
Journalist (2): Thank you. Thank you for your time. (break)
Prabhupāda: We are simply presenting the fact that everything belongs to God. God is the supreme friend and God is the maintainer of everyone, everything, and He is the supreme enjoyer. These three things, if we understand, then the whole problem is solved. Now, I say that God is the proprietor. Now you refute. Those who will not accept, that "God is not proprietor, I am proprietor," this requires discussion. How you become proprietor? Bhagavad-gītā says, God says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). I am not manufacturing this. It is stated in the śāstra. God is the supreme enjoyer. He is the proprietor. He should be enjoyer. Just like here, if I am the proprietor of a factory, so the profit should come to me, similarly, if God is the proprietor of everything then we cannot enjoy anything without the sanction of God. We therefore eat prasādam. We know that the fruit, flowers, or grains, or milk, whatever we are offering to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa has given us. You cannot manufacture these things, nice oranges, in factory. You cannot manufacture rice or wheat. Actually, God has given. That is God consciousness. Anything, even those who are eating animals, they cannot manufacture animals in the factory. That is also God's creation. So in the Vedas it is said, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "That one supreme living being is supplying food or necessities of life to all living entities." That's a fact. He is the maintainer. He is the giver of food. We are simply handling. That's all. Everything. Even this house or your car, everything. The material ingredients are supplied by God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, kalpanā. Māyāvādī theory is brahma nirākāra, so... (Hindi) You can imagine that God is so insignificant that you can imagine His form. This dangerous theory is going on in India. God is so insignificant that you can imagine at your whims whatever you like. Ramakrishna Mission is also preaching this, and now this big, big sannyāsī, they also preaching this. God is a subject matter for, of my imagination, He is so insignificant. You have seen the paper?
Guest (1): No. I haven't read this particular statement.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Rayananda(?), can you get that paper, Hindustan?
Guest: Quite surprising. He's quite a learned scholar.
Prabhupāda: The learned scholar, they have been described in Bhagavad-gītā, māyaya apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they have taken this view that God is impersonal, He has no form, this is āsurī. Then māyaya apahṛta-jñānā. Therefore, however learned they may be, māyā takes away their knowledge. Māyaya apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśr... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) The Absolute Truth, that is subjected to be imagined by me. I am a tiny soul. And if a learned sannyāsī says like that, how many thousands of people will believe in that, will be wrongly impressed? This paper will be read by thousands and millions. (Hindi) ...hodge-podge.
Prabhupāda: If you please him, then he is responsible. Yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If you displease him then you are nowhere. So, if you take it in this way, that my spiritual master has taken responsibility so whatever nonsense I do, it doesn't matter. The Christians are thinking like that. Jesus Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities, so we can do anything, whatever we like. But that is not the fact. If one takes responsibility for you, you must abide by his order. Otherwise how is that, that he simply takes responsibility and you don't abide by his order? It is reciprocal. But the Christians are thinking, "Because we have taken to Christian religion, now we are safe. We can do anything we like and Lord Jesus Christ will compensate. He'll be every time crucified and we can go on doing all nonsense." Is it not? Then? That's not a very good idea. This is, as Viśvanātha Cakravartī said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. If you please your spiritual master, then God will be pleased. If you don't please him, then you are nowhere. So first of all you please Jesus Christ, that is reasonable, then he takes the responsibility. If you disobey Jesus Christ in every step, what is his responsibility? That is a misconception.
Devotee (5): There are some Christians who are actually sincere and they feel as though they are doing the proper thing, but they are just misled by the fact that there is no paramparā system coming from Lord Jesus. The churches are teaching the wrong thing, but they are sincere. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa will direct them (indistinct) the proper authority?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So their philosophy, "You are going to be hanged. Now you can enjoy whatever you like." So this philosophy, that because the Māyāvādī philosophy is impersonal, zero, therefore people don't care for sin. "Enjoy life. You shall finish."
Devotee: There's the story of a man who is being hanged and they said, "You can have whatever you want." So he said, "Whatever I want?" So they said, "Yes." So he says, "I want ten more years life."
Prabhupāda: We don't say whatever you want. You enjoy. Gratify your senses as much as you like.
Mālatī: Prabhupāda? What class of impersonalists are worshiping the Puruṣa-sūkta?
Prabhupāda: Hum?
Mālatī: What class of impersonalists are worshiping the universal form?
Prabhupāda: Well, universal form is not impersonal. That is personal. That is also manifestation of Kṛṣṇa.
Mālatī: But you say that... In one of your purports you are saying that the impersonalists are worshiping the universal form.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like sometimes they advertise: "Our customers are our master." Is it not? Sometimes advertise. So this is business, but it is a flowery language only that "Our customers are our masters." Because nobody is a qualified customer unless he pays. Hmm? But service is not like that. Service, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām (CC Antya 20.47), "Oh, You do whatever You like; still, You are my worshipable Lord." That is service. "I don't ask any return from You." That is service. When you expect some return that is business. (pause) Very nice road. (break)
Bob: I wish to ask you to advise me on how I can come to feel closer to God. I'll be leaving you soon, and I'm... With you...
Prabhupāda: You have to purify.
Bob: Somewhat, but let me say I come to the temple at times and then I leave, and I'm not sure how much I take with me.
Prabhupāda: It will not take much time. Within six months you'll realize. But you have to follow the regulative principles. Then it will be auspicious. Just like these boys and girls are doing. Just see the girl, how she's chanting always. All our girls is...
Bob: Yeah, I've seen...
Prabhupāda: That's very natural. It is costly here. But these children and their parents also very much interested. So I think you should have a nice institution here to train the children in this country. And after their education, they may take to any line of livelihood. That doesn't matter. But the foundation... Just like in our Vedic system, first of all brahmacārī. That brahmacārī system is very nice. Even Kṛṣṇa, God Himself, He has nothing to learn. He is abhijñā. In the Vedas He is described as abhijñā: He knows everything. But just to teach us, He also became a brahmacārī in the Gurukula. Lord Rāmacandra, He also accepted a guru, Vasiṣṭha. So that is our Vedic system. Anybody may be anything, but the process is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn the value of life, spiritual value of life, one must go to a guru. Tad vijñānārtham. In order to understand the spiritual value of life one must go to a guru. Gurum evābhigacchet. What is that guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: "He is well learned in Vedic literature," and brahma-niṣṭham, "and firm faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead." These are the two qualifications of guru. He must know all the Vedic conclusions, śrotriyam, not that he has to read, but he must hear from the authoritative sources. Just like Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the most authoritative personality. So similarly, everyone has to hear either from Kṛṣṇa or from His bona fide representative. That is śrotriyam. And the result will be that after becoming student of such bona fide guru, one will be firmly fixed up in God consciousness. That is the result, firmly fixed up. Now, these boys from foreign countries, according to our geographical arrangement, they are foreigners. But we don't see anything foreign. We see every land belongs to Kṛṣṇa and everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So we have no such distinction. But still, from materialistic point of view, these boys and girls, they, three or four years ago they did not know what is this word Kṛṣṇa. But now they are so perfectly devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and nobody can deviate them. If somebody says that "You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and take..." Now here is Śyāmasundara. His father is very, very rich man, young man. He is always canvassing him that—he is only son—that "You come, do business. You take millions of dollars, whatever you like."
Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. If somebody is thinking, "If I had like this, like that, like that, like that." "All right you will have all." (laughter) Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to save himself in this way, that... "Yes, all are granted," but still he had to die. All granted. So we are trying to take facilities from Kṛṣṇa beginning from "O God, give us our daily bread, then give me motorcar, then give me airplane, then give me this, give me that." "Take all, but you will never be happy unless you surrender to Me. You take all." This is going on. The modern civilization, they are wanting, "We may have this, we may have that, we may have this, we may have that." "Yes, you take all. But don't talk of happiness, please." That is the only problem. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), if you want this. Otherwise, you take whatever you like.
Śyāmasundara: The devotees, they don't care. They'll go across the desert hitchhiking, but Kṛṣṇa gives them happiness. They're happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is happiness. They are going for Kṛṣṇa, that is happiness. They forget the trouble.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Today he's gone again. (break)
Prabhupāda: Don't be doubtful about this at least. You may do or not do, but at least you be convinced that this is the nicest thing we have got. And there is no comparison.
Śyāmasundara: And the more we experience it, the more we become convinced.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The Kṛṣṇa prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, is within everyone. That love is being expressed in so many ways. Actually that is love for Kṛṣṇa. So when one invokes that love in proper condition, then he loves Kṛṣṇa and loves everyone. Here the so-called love is for some purpose. Just like we are... I have come to this country. My purpose is not to get some money from them. Because I think, "My Guru Mahārāja ordered that 'You go to the Western countries,' " so I have come to the Western countries to give them Kṛṣṇa. And because they, everyone has Kṛṣṇa prema, they are accepting it. You must be favorable. But if you don't accept, it is impossible to give you. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You do." Kṛṣṇa can force him but He is not forcing. Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna, "Whatever..." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), "Whatever you like, you can do." He does not force anyone because the living entity, part and parcel of God, he has got independence. So Kṛṣṇa does not touch the independence of the living entity. He advises, "You do this. If you do this, then you will be saved." But if you do not do this, then Kṛṣṇa is not responsible. You are responsible. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So if you do that—you take Kṛṣṇa's advice—then you are saved. But if you do not that, then you take your own responsibility. You travel in this cycle of birth and death and wander in different species of life, different planets. So that is your responsibility. Kṛṣṇa comes down to instruct you this philosophy, this fact. Now it is up to you to accept or not to ac... You have got the independence. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti... (BG 4.9). Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gataḥ (BG 8.15). That is the highest perfection; you go back to Kṛṣṇa. If you don't go, that is your choice.
Prabhupāda: Ah, the conditions. So first of all you come out of the conditioned life. Just like we are trying to go to other planets with so many machines, so many mechanical arrangements. But if you have got spiritual body, you can go anywhere. Anywhere you can go. As Nārada Muni is going, traveling, any planet he likes he is going. That freedom is there, but that is in spiritual body. So you come to the spiritual body first, then you get all freedom. Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever you desire, you can get.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it might look like poison at the beginning, but at the end it will be nectar.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And so they..., they're reversing that, these people who...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is appearing as poison in the beginning, that will prove nectar at the end. (break) Even ordinary dealings. Just like I have given one watch to Śyāmasundara, that Omega. So I paid him... One hundred dollars has been spent to make it correct time, but it is not. Everyone, "Yes, I will make it repaired."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just repairing?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Whatever you like.
Scholar: Whatever you like.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever you like. That independence is there always. But he has... Just like we are speaking. This is the aim of life. Now if you like then take, you'll not take—that depends on your independence. So that independence is all... Before that independence is there, therefore we are sometimes degrading from this human life to cats' and dogs' life. So it is the duty of the human society to save the human being to degrade, from becoming again cats and dogs, or to elevate him higher and higher. Does it mean that we are, we shall be satisfied with our present stage of life without knowing what we are going to accept? Is that very nice proposal? Or we shall try to elevate the human society, that is higher.
Scholar: Our aim is the same, to elevate the human being, but...
Prabhupāda: But then you have to accept the means.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So therefore these rascals come, they give them (Hindi or sounds like "asirvada", maybe referring to Sai Baba), I give them, "I am so powerful, I give you (Hindi)," and they give them money, "Oh, here is a sādhu." They'll get (Hindi) very cheaply, and make money. Instead of two lakhs, I'll make ten lakhs, by the (Hindi). And he's Sai Baba, like rogues, they come to show them some magic, that "I have got some power, I can do anything I like, and if you become my devotee, you will improve." All these yogis, everything, they do like that. Mahesh Yogi also: "Take my mantra. Within six months you become perfect man and whatever you like, you can do."
Devotee (3): Ha ha. No restrictions.
Prabhupāda: No. There is business only. Why there should be restrictions? Everyone does so, beginning from Vivekananda, Aurobindo, everyone. Aurobindo also used to say that you haven't got to do anything, you simply think of me, just like Kṛṣṇa says: "Simply think of Me." (indistinct) (break)
Devotee (3): One man came here, a haṭha-yogī, so-called haṭha-yogī, and he was putting water in his nose and cloth in his stomach and all twisting this way, going under water, and they were all very amazed and many people came to see. Just like the circus.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And then they say "I will make you perfect man, whatever you like you can... You become my disciple, give me some money."
Devotee (3): And enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, 1944. I think you were at that time at my house. Yes. So, somehow or other, this intention for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu increased and the other side decreased. Viraktir anyatra syāt. But I was not disinclined, but Kṛṣṇa forced me that you must give up. (chuckles) And these thing is known better to Śrīdhara Mahārāja, how it decreased, decreased, decreased, then almost it become nil, and then I left home in 1950. Whatever was there, "All right, you do whatever you like." In 1954, four years I remained as vānaprastha, (indistinct) four years, from 1950 to 1959.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In the mean time, Bombay. Bombay light.
Prabhupāda: Bombay light, yes. Bombay light, that is during my householder life. I opened an office in Bombay for my business and... The (indistinct) Gauḍīya Maṭha was established by us. I am one of them. Śrīdhara Mahārāja also. And we made two parties for begging, collecting alms. Śrīdhara Mahārāja, myself and Gosvāmī Mahārāja. That time he was Atula, Atulacandra Gosvāmī. So I took them to some of my friends, chemist friends, doctors friends. So I collected about five hundred rupees to this. Śrīdhara Mahārāja would speak, I introduced, and Gosvāmī, at that time Gosvāmī Mahārāja would canvass (laughter). In this way three combined together, in one day or two days we... At that time five hundred rupees was (laughing) big amount.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Big sum.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to, I want to follow my own aim and desire, my own morality. They say like that.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but why don't you do that in case of your relationship to the state. Suppose the state says: "You must drive to the right." Why don't you drive on the left? Why do you obey the state laws? What does he say? You do whatever you like.
Brahmānanda: That means there's someone more powerful than they are.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: They have to obey.
Prabhupāda: Immediately he'll be kicked on his face. "You rascal, why you driving. Kick on your..."(laughter) and what he'll say at that time? Can he say that: "Yes, it is my law. I'll do this." Can he say like this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He cannot say like this.
Prabhupāda: Then, then what is this? It is insanity. What you cannot do, if you say: "I can do it," Then it is insanity.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They just argue without any background.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just for argument...
Prabhupāda: And nora means mortar and what is called, pestle? So it is your śilā nora. I take it and break your teeth. (laughter) So take their, this jugglery of words and break their teeth. That should be the policy. "These molecules and this and that," so many words. You have to simply catch their words, and with their words kill them. That is intelligence. We are saying plainly. You say with these words which is their sona, mortar and pestle, and break their teeth. That's all. Tora śilā tora nora tora bāṇi dāntera gora.(?) This policy should be adopted. Otherwise, we know they are rascals. But if I say, rascal, people will say, "You are not a scientific man, how you can say he is rascal?" "Therefore I am flattering you that otherwise..." You haven't got to convince me, that (he's a) rascal. I know that he is a rascal. Now, because we have to prove that he is a rascal to another rascal, we have to take your help. This is our policy. Otherwise, so far we are concerned, if they go on lecturing for millions of years, we shall kick on their face. You should know he is mistaken. Let the rascal speak whatever he likes. We know the conclusion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in trying to make a house, we need certain materials to build the house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materials are already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So similarly when the living entities, when they come down to the material platform...
Prabhupāda: Material is already there. Just like what you are manufacturing. You are... Already everything is there.
Reporter: Mā phaleṣu.
Prabhupāda: This is karma-yoga—when you do not take the result. Ah? You may do whatever you like, but if you, if the result, if you give to Kṛṣṇa, that is karma-yoga.
Reporter: Hm. Yeah, but karmaṇy evādhikāras te...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: This is the, the point that...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to work.
Reporter: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: See?
Reporter: But... So... If our responsibility is to act without attachment for the result, I accept, I agree with it.
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa says that purottama manaḥ (?). The result must be there.
Reporter: Yes. But that should be...
Prabhupāda: So, if you do not take the result, who will take it? It cannot...
Reporter: Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you must be giving to someone, to who is the perfect person who can take it. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: Hm. Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their contribution. And they have spoiled the Hindu culture.
Professor: Oh. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyāsīs still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...
Professor: You are right, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful. They are preaching in the Western countries... As far I know, in America they have got ten or twelve branches. I am working for the last six years only. I have got already fifty branches. And each branch, there are devotees like them, not less than twenty-five, up to two hundred, three hundred, all dedicated souls.
Professor: And what about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?
Prabhupāda: I don't take account of these because they are not standard.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: Demon. Demon. (laughs) Prahlāda Mahārāja when he was asked, "Take benediction, whatever you like", he said, "Sir, what benediction I shall take? I have seen the benediction of my father. He was so powerful even the demigods trembled by his red eyes and You finished it within a second. So what is the value of this benediction? Kindly engage me in Your service." Then Prahlāda Mahārāja he did not ask anything for himself, but later on he asked Nṛsiṁha-deva, "Sir, my Lord, one request I can make. My father was great demon, he was against You, but still I pray that his liberation will be granted."
Guest: Very nice of him, very good of him.
Prabhupāda: (laughs)
Guest: To save his father.
Prabhupāda: So Nṛsiṁha-deva replied, "Don't be worried about your father. Not only your father, but your father's father, his father, up to 14 generations because a devotee like you, because you are born in this family, 14 generations they are also liberated." Best service. If your daughter can give best service to your family by becoming a devotee. She gives service to you, to your husband, to your husband's father, your father, that is the śāstric injunction.
Guest: What exactly is a devotee?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: And everyone is doing everything, whatever he likes.
Guest: No trade is going on. We are under the counter (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: If I just now cut your throat, the police will come, arrest me, note down and the judgement will be given when all your family members will be longer.
Guest: The judgement won't be given, the police will take money and...
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Lady Guest: Everything will be over.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: This the position. Everything is (indistinct). Therefore most important thing is people should come to his consciousness, real consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest: Character.
Bali Mardana: I was saying that they transplant the heart... After the first man, his soul has already gone, then they take his heart and put it into the other man, who has a weak heart. So all it means is that the soul is going from one heart to another heart, not that the soul, that they are taking the soul with it when they put the heart in.
Prabhupāda: He is destined to live in that body for a certain years. So you may change whatever you like.
Karandhara: The heart is just an instrument in the machine.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a place.
Bali Mardana: Now it's very clear. (break)
Prabhupāda: Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). There is superior overlooking. That is Kṛṣṇa, anumantā, upadraṣṭā. Upadraṣṭā anumantā.
Karandhara: One man, Dr. Wyberg from South Africa, he was the first successful heart transplant. So as soon as he got out of the hospital he started drinking and having sex life. (laughter) He was saying, "How wonderful science is. It can prolong my enjoyment." Then he died about a year later from too much...
Prabhupāda: That is material life. As soon as they get some opportunity, they will have sex. That is the only hope. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). Here the only happiness is sex. Otherwise they are working so hard like asses. Why? Only for that sex. The only aim is "I will enjoy sex at night." That's all. That is the only aim. Yan maithunādi. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. They are attracted with the most abominable thing, sex life. Yes. Tuccham. Tuccham means very abominable, very insignificant thing. The position of the sex, the... How nasty it is! Just like crows, they enjoy in a nasty place. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Tad vāyasa-tīrtham. Vāyasa means crows. The crows, as they enjoy... (break) gṛham andha-kūpam, ātma-pātam. As soon as you fall down, you are killed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaṅkara's cheating is also like that, because he was taking, he was accepting from the Buddhists. If he immediately says that "Lord Buddha was, cheated you," they'll not accept. Therefore he made some compromise. The Buddhist theory is "void," and he said, "No form." So it is almost the same. But he said, "There is Brahman." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. That much improvement. The same process. Just like one wants to eat meat. He is given some regulation, "Yes, you can eat meat. There is no harm. But you do like this: Go to a mosque. On Eid day you can kill one animal." Or "You go to the synagogue under the protection of..." And our Hindu śāstra says, "Go to the Goddess Kālī's temple, and get a goat, black goat." That means under condition. If it is good thing, it would have been sanctioned, "Yes, you can do whatever you like." But it is not good. But if you say, "It is not good," he'll not accept. Therefore under some condition. (break)
Prajāpati: There's a group called Christian Scientists. They say God is not a person. He's simply a principle, a principle of truth, beauty, all these, just qualities.
Prabhupāda: But show the example, what is that principle?
Karandhara: What is the meaning of principle without person?
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of principle? Show me. You are talking nonsense.
Prajāpati: They say He's a principle is...
Prabhupāda: As soon as you call "principle," there must be a person. There must be a person. Otherwise, there is no principle.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're called technolo... (heavy waves)
Prabhupāda: They may call whatever they like. But we are sane man. We cannot take the... We can say only that "You are all defeated." They may say. A fool will never agree that he's a fool. He'll always say, "I am very intelli..." That is another foolishness. After spending millions of... for one coat for going to the moon planet? Forty-thousand dollar? What is that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh. Billions of dollars were spent.
Prabhupāda: That coat?
Śrutakīrti: No, coat.
Brahmānanda: Spacesuit.
Karandhara: Oh yes. Millions of dollars.
Prabhupāda: Just see how they are spending, squandering public money. You see? But nobody is to stop this.
Prajāpati: The demons have always been trying to make staircases and towers up to heaven.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Demonic.
Prajāpati: In the Bible, it is also. An attempt was made to build a big, huge tower up to heaven. And the Lord was not very pleased with this attempt, and He scattered all the people. (about the ocean) Just wants to touch your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Prabhupāda: "If you want to stop this chaotic condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition." But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger, he is stealing. There is fight. Just like this chaotic condition of the petrol. The Arabians thinking that "I am the proprietor. Why shall I give to the Americans?" Thing is there, but it is chaotic only because they do not accept the proprietor is God. That is the defect. How you can give freedom for stealing? Stealing freedom means punishment awaiting you. If I give you freedom—"Yes, whatever you like, you can go on stealing"—that means next stage is your punishment. That is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that proprietor stage is relative.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is relative. Relative means you are servant. You must satisfy by your service to the proprietor and get your nice salary and be happy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever He gives, you accept and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. You don't try to encroach upon others. You receive from the proprietor your emolution (emolument?) or your reward and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is God's property. You take your share. You have got right. Just like a father and the son. There are ten sons. Everyone has got the right to share the property of the father, but as the father gives, not that I take away the whole property and others, brothers, may starve. That is not allowed. That is criminal. Here in the material world everyone has come to get the best profit, without considering profit for others. Others may go to hell. "Others, let them go to the slaughterhouse. I must satisfy my tongue." That is material world. "No, why you are slaughtering other living entities?" "I don't care. I want to eat. That's all." So you have to pay for that. You cannot put others into difficulty because God is equally merciful to everyone. But you don't care for God. Therefore you do whimsically whatever you like.
Prabhupāda: But how all of a sudden there can be explosion? What is this nonsense proposition? As soon as there is question of explosion, before the explosion takes place, there must be some arrangement. The time bomb explosion. So the bomb is prepared by something, some bomb is kept by somebody, and after some time it explodes. So how all of a sudden? Where does he get this idea? Just like if there is bomb explosion here, a child may think, "All of a sudden there is a bomb explosion," but a sane man will not think that. There will be inquiry, "Who kept this bomb? Who brought this bomb?" That is sanity. "And all of a sudden explosion," this is all rascal proposal. Therefore the people have become so rascal, guided by these rascals, "All of a sudden, by chance," and they accept them as scientist... This is the drawback of the present civilization. Because they are śūdras, like animals, they have got no brain to answer that "How all of a sudden there can be explosion." They have no brain even to ask. Rather, they are giving Nobel Prize. This rascal is speaking like a rascal, still, he should get Nobel Prize. That is the defect. The people at the present moment, they are all rascals. Just like animals. And yes, actually they are animals. Just like animals are eating, sleeping, mating, and eating meat. The other one animal is eating another animal. That's all. No discretion, nothing. This is a civilization of animals, polished animals. Their consciousness has become animalistic. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like children. They are animals, just like animals. They have no fixed program. Whatever they like, they are doing. Whatever they like, they are speaking. Simply they are interested in eating. So at the present moment, because they have lost all their power of reasoning and understanding, they are all animals. "All of a sudden there is an explosion." How explosion can take place like that? Any sane human being will ask that "How is that?" Same example: If there is some explosion in the park, a rascal will say, "All of a sudden there is explosion." But the government, police department, immediately inquire, "How this bomb came? Wherefrom? Who placed it?" That is humanity. That is human reasoning. "And all of a sudden there is explosion," you have to accept that. You accept that?
Devotee: I don't accept it.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You do not know then, you have to learn who I will surrender, but the position is this, Kṛṣṇa says that you surrender unto Me. You can surrender immediately. Surrender means just like in war field there is surrender: "(indistinct) now. Now sir, you surrender. Now whatever you like you can do." That is surrender. "If you like, kill me, and if you like, keep(?) me. That is surrender. It is very simple thing. In the war field when other party is defeated, the holds the hand, surrender. That means "If you like kill me, I throw down my weapon. If you like, save me." So He is the Supreme. If He likes He can kill me, if He likes He can save me, so I am subordinate. How can, I can do equally Kṛṣṇa? As soon as you surrender, it is accepted that you are predominated and He is predominator. So how you, the predominated, can be equal to the predominator?
Devotee: Can't be.
Guest (1): He is the Lord (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: The thing you said when you came in was that we merge with something which is formless beyond Kṛṣṇa, the first...
Guest (1): No, it's not beyond Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: If he has read Bhagavad-gītā, that he cannot say, because Kṛṣṇa says brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā, I am the resort of Brahman. So He is greater than Brahman. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, even Brahman emanates from Me, and actually it is so. Just like the sunshine (indistinct) sun globe. Although the sunshine is universe(?), but still dependent on the sun globe.
Prabhupāda: Huh? General.
Devotee: General.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That veranda, that, whatever he likes we shall, we will spend. We'll pay the bills (indistinct).
Devotee: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...to give us the temple portion free, and purchase the land for balance. (break) ...negotiate, but we have no sufficient men to manage. (break) ...unless you can utilize.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct) fifty lakhs, twenty-five, that is beyond us. We can spare up to two lakhs, that's all. (break) ... be able to manage. (break) ...people.
Gurudāsa: Yes. The Britishers.
Prabhupāda: Britishers, they train. Just like in India, they trained. They were on the head of the administration. The Viceroy, the governor, the secretaries, the military commander, they are all Englishmen. All other, Indians. Therefore Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. That these people are ruling over us by our cooperation.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He is in the heart of a dog also. Then dog is also Kṛṣṇa. So why one should go to the temple? He can worship his dog at home. If this logic is all right. (break) ...the verdict of the Rāmakrishna mission, "You can worship whatever you like. That is God." And therefore they have manufactured this word, daridra-nārāyaṇa. (break) Jāta-karma-saṁskāra, saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformatory method, begins before the birth. Before the birth, when the father and mother have sex, that is called garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. That is also another ceremony. It is not a hidden fact. So saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ. Otherwise it is birth like cats and dogs. That is Vedic civlization, saṁskāra before the birth and immediately after the birth, then one after another. This is called jata-karma; then nāma-karma; then when he is grown boy, upanayana-saṁskāra, dīkṣā-saṁskāra; then when he is grown up and marriage... Marriage is also another saṁskāra. In this way there are daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So unless one goes through all the saṁskāras, he is not accepted as higher caste. He is śūdra. In a brāhmaṇa family, if the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not taken, so it is said that immediately the whole family becomes śūdra, no more brāhmaṇas. Then where is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is going on? Nobody takes care of garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. Still, they are declaring that "I am brāhmaṇa." Therefore the conclusion is kālau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "Everyone is śūdra." (break) ...no education. Still, one is called paṇḍitji. What is the meaning of this "paṇḍitji?" If he is not learned, then why do you call him paṇḍitji? (laughing) (break) That paṇḍiya is also another form of paṇḍita.
Indian man (4): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Here is description of Pūtanā, twelve miles. Big gigantic body. And nobody has seen such gigantic body. But it is described in the Bhāgavatam. (break) ...Mahārāja was so simple, village man, that he accepted Vasudeva, a great mystic. Hare Kṛṣṇa. A devotee says that "I prefer to become a dog in the house of a devotee."
- vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukkura,
- bhuliyā janaha mora
He is praying, "My dear Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, you kindly accept me as your dog. But you accept me." You see? "And I shall do this, I shall do this. I shall sit down on your door. I shall not allow any nondevotee to disturb you." He has sung like...
- vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukkura,
- bhuliyā janaha mora
"And I shall not ask you for any food. Whatever you like, you can give me a little eaten food. I will be satisfied. But keep me as your dog." That is the prayer, that Vaiṣṇava is prepared to become a dog even at the house of a Vaiṣṇava. That is Vaiṣṇava. He doesn't want anything more. He wants simply to be associated with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Vaiṣṇava. (break)
Lilavati: What is that prayer in Bengali?
Prabhupāda: That is in Bengali. (break) ...tomara kukkura, bhuliya janaha more. (break)
Girirāja: "...all the residents of Vraja cut the gigantic body of Pūtanā into pieces and piled it up with wood for burning." (break)
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is all right. In India, also, although they are vegetarian, they cannot give up smoking even beedie. They cannot give up chewing pan. You see? This is very difficult task. I was thinking when I first came that as soon as I propose these things, because I have got experience that Lord Zetland said, "It is impossible," what they, they'll accept? And I'll have to go back again. But I did not make any compromise. Just like other rascal yogis and swamis, they say, "Yes, yes. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever... You practice nose pressing. That's all. And give me my fees. Then you'll (indistinct)." This is not possible.
Bhagavān: When you had your talk several years ago with the professor in Russia, he made the point, when you were discussing about the regulative principles, that if you follow these principles, then your life becomes very simple, and if you don't follow these principles, life becomes very complicated. He appreciated that one point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will appreciate. Our... Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Without anartha-nivṛtti... Anartha-nivṛtti means stopping all unwanted things. Anartha. Anartha means which does not give us any profit and unnecessarily we are accustomed. Suppose we do not take any intoxicant. So what is our inconvenience? But people are spending millions and millions of dollars only for smoking. Therefore it is useless, anartha. But they cannot give it up. And condition is that without anartha-nivṛtti, there cannot be attachment for God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business. So therefore everyone is fourth-class. So the fourth-class men, they are electing their representative to govern. They are also on the big fourth-class men. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Where is that verse? Find out. All fourth-class men. Not fourth-class, less than fourth-class. Fourth-class has got also some regulative duty. But at the present moment, no regulative duty. Anyone can do whatever he likes, whatever he thinks. All fifth-class, sixth-class men. No regulative principle. The human life is meant for regulative principles. Just like we are insisting our students only for regulative principles just to make them real human life. No regulative principle means animal life. Animal life. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena... (SB 6.1.13) The yoga system is there. It is to learn the regulative principles, yamena niyamena vā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We, suppose we make ghee there. We can make sandeśa there. We can make rasagullā. We can make so many things, especially ghee. So open restaurant in any part of the city, and make nice kachoris, puri, halavā and so many other things, juri,(?) and people will purchase it. They'll come and sit down. I've given all the... That every foodstuff is ready. You sit down. Whatever you like, you take. And this is our charge for one plate. Don't waste. Just like it is distributed. You take one, two, three, four, as much as you like. But don't waste. Don't waste. So so far for your eating sumptuously, the charge is set. Suppose this man eats only one cake and you eat four cakes. That does not mean we shall charge more.
Yogeśvara: Same.
Prabhupāda: Same charge. Same charge. You sit down, eat to your heart's content, be satisfied, and let him also eat. Don't waste. We supply. This is our program. Not that each time... Just like in hotel, each time a plate is brought, immediately a bill. Is it not? No. You sit down, eat to your satisfaction. Charge is the same.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I think they will leave the restaurant with their pockets full of samosās. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That we shall not allow. That we shall not allow.
Bhagavān: You were telling us one time that in India, if a person has a mango orchard, you can come in if you're hungry and eat, but you cannot take any with you.
Prabhupāda: Fruits, vegetable, we can prepare thousands of preparations, very palatable. Some of them you can taste. Yes, take. Whatever you like, take.
Yogeśvara: Maybe you can also explain that this...
Prabhupāda: What is this preparation, explain. You explain.
Yogeśvara: This is burfi.
Bhagavān: This is cake, cookie.
Prabhupāda: No, not cookie. It is burfi like... What is this made of?
Bhagavān: This is...
Girl: This is sandeśa.
Prabhupāda: Oh, sandeśa. It is milk preparation. Give him one more. No, no. This sandeśa, you give him one more. So our recommendation is, "Don't kill cow." Take milk and make thousands of preparations, all nutritious and very healthy. They do not know how to use cow. Instead of killing, if we take, let the animal live and give us milk, and from the milk, we make hundreds of preparations. The milk is nothing but blood, transformation of blood. So we take the blood by killing the animal, but we do not wish to kill such an important animal, but they take the blood in form of milk and make preparation. And those who are flesh-eaters, let them wait for the death of the cow. Then let them eat the flesh, not living condition. So we are making preparation that keep the cows, protect the cows, and when the cow dies, the flesh-eater may take it away. So he can take the skin, he can take the hoof, he can take the horn, he can take the flesh, everything, whatever he likes. Because when it is dead, it is no more useful for us. So the others, who are interested with the skin, in the flesh, in the hoof, they can take it. And they get it free.
Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't matter. You give him good advice. Just like a canvasser. He canvasses for selling some books or some... If does not sell, he is not a culprit. He has done his job. That is recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Devotee does not make any bargain with Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa will give me this benefit; therefore I have become pure devotee." That is not devotee. Prahlāda Mahā... He is a merchant, "You give me this price. I will deliver this clothing." That is not devotion. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā: (CC Antya 20.47) "Any condition, I am your slave. Whatever You like, you can do with me." That is the sign, not that "If it is favorable to my idea, then I accept You." That is not devotion. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), no desire. Only desire: "Please accept me as Your eternal servant again." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā: "Now, if You like, You can kill me; if You like, You can keep me. Whatever You like, I am prepared." Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. That is surrender. (break) Similarly, if we live on the nature's way, there is no problem. The extra brain and intelligence which we have from the lower animals, we are utilizing for the same purpose, the animal life. That lady was saying, "Now we are advanced, so..." (car comes by) It is our car?
Haṁsadūta: No.
Prabhupāda: There is a camp. (break) We can return now. (end)
Prabhupāda: Well, who is not self-controlled, he'll not be convinced because he'll think that he's rebellious, "I can do anything what I like. I can eat whatever I like." Now how he will like this idea of self-control?
Professor Durckheim: But one question, you see. These virtues have been always asked for by Christian churches also, exactly the same. But then today we realize that the virtues are on one level with the vices. But there's something different. If you pass through the (indistinct) step you get somewhere, you see where we can understand, for instance, if Christ says "Let the dead bury their dead." A phrase like this appeals to a different level. So I think as long as you...
Prabhupāda: No. It is not different level. The advice is given according to the time, person. So if people follow Lord Christ and, I mean to say, instruction that is also perfect. But they do not follow.
Professor Durckheim: They do not...
Prabhupāda: They do not follow.
Professor Durckheim: Sure...
Prabhupāda: That's it. Otherwise either you follow Bhagavad-gītā or Bible as they are, then you become gradually perfect. The difficulty is they do not follow. And still they're claiming "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am this." "I am that." Rubber stamp. No qualification but rubber stamp. This is the defect. (German) (break)
Vedavyāsa: ...qualifications on the material platform.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he does not join the saṅkīrtana party, that does not mean his spiritual life is hampered. He has to follow the rules and regulation. He may not be able to join the saṅkīrtana party, but he must follow the process, rules and regulation. That is wanted. And because he is living outside the temple, therefore he will forget all rules and regulation and do whatever he likes—then it will ruin the whole thing.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it faster if one lives in the temple and goes on the saṅkīrtana party. Is it faster?
Prabhupāda: That depends on him. Even in the temple, if his mind is in a different subject matter, then how it will help him?
Bali Mardana: The temple authorities like to preach that anyone who's living outside the temple is going to hell.
Prabhupāda: Generally.
Bali Mardana: But even devotees who are following. They like to preach that.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not. That is not. Just like even in ordinary business, if you transact business in the stock association, you get good business. And outside the stock association you don't get. Because association is there, there are many purchaser and many seller. So if you have to sell, you get immediate purchaser. And if you have to purchase, there is immediate seller. That is... Therefore the stock exchange is there. That is the way, that if we live together in the stock exchange of devotional service, then you can help me; I can help you. So our business will go on nicely. And outside the market, you can live three hundred miles away from the stock exchange. You will not get so many business. Like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC. They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes, then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool's paradise. So somehow or other, we have got now a position. People likes us. So we should not spoil by personal sense gratification. That is my request. If we can maintain this institution rigidly according to the order, then many people will be benefited. By seeing our behavior, by character, they will become. Apani ācāri prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. The leader should be ideal.
Devotee (1): We should dedicate our lives to preaching this message of Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, preaching, preaching, you will become perfect preacher. Preach only what you have heard from Kṛṣṇa and guru, that's all. Don't add and subtract. Then you are secure. And if you add some concoction just like somebody says that "I may do whatever I like independently. If I chant, then everything is all right," this is nonsense addition. It is not the fact. That is the danger. Some inexperienced man, he introduces some concoction. Sometimes they say, "Prabhupāda said it." More misleading. Yes. (end)
Prabhupāda: By desire you are creating everything. Why these material varieties? You desire. In the spiritual world also, varieties. You desire. You want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His friend, you want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His lover, you want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His father, as His servant, or you want to serve Kṛṣṇa by supplying fruits and flowers, or river Yamunā. Everything, whatever you like, Kṛṣṇa will give you opportunity, in this material and the spiritual world.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: After complete annihilation and then, when the creation starts again...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of annihilation.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I mean the material universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is manifest, not manifest. Not annihilation. The energy is there. Just like sometimes I become angry, and sometime I am peaceful. But that means anger is annihilated. Anger is there. It may be manifest at any time. There is no question of annihilation. You say like that because actually it is vyakta, avyakta: manifest and nonmanifest.
Rūpānuga: We don't see it, so we say it's not manifest.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So during this time there are still living entities which are not manifested.
Prabhupāda: Living are already there, but his desires are manifest or nonmanifest.
Prabhupāda: ...indicates God, then it is not bad. That is our point. If we indicates to God... Just like Allah. If this name indicates to God, then it is this Allah word as good as God. There is no difference. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija sarva śakti. The Allah, the conception of Allah means The Great, is it not? So God is Great. So by chanting Allah, I am meaning God, the Supreme Person, so it is as good. And actually in Mosque, they chant Allah-u-akbar, like that, so far I've heard. So that prayer, if it is not God's name, then what is the use of this prayer? That is God's name. Similarly, the Hindus may chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they're indicating to the same personality. It may be different language; therefore, it is as good as God because God is absolute. But this, this name is authorize because Muhammad said that you chant, "Allah." So it is authorized, because he is God's representative. Therefore my request is, or our request is that you chant the name of Allah. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. You chant the Holy name of God. If Allah is approved name of God, you chant it. That is our request. We don't force you that you chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. No, we don't say that. If somebody says Jehovah is the name of God, that's all right, you chant Jehovah. Allah is the name of God, that's all right, you do it. We simply request that you chant the holy name of God. That's all. If you have got it, we don't force you that you chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. That is not our way. We accept: if Allah is God's name, it is as good as the name Kṛṣṇa. We are not so sophisticated that you have to chant this Kṛṣṇa's name. No, we say: Harer nāma. That is the śāstra, harer nāma. The name of the Lord. So there are many thousands of names, that's a fact. So you actually chant the name of God. Pick up of the millions of God's name, whatever you like, you pick up and chant. That is our propagation.
Prabhupāda: That you decide amongst the GBC. (laughter) Best thing is that don't keep money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I have no money in my name.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you don't... You spend the necessary expenditure, and balance money, you give whatever you like.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, yeah. We're doing... I meant to say...
Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda is...
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī is collecting and spending.
Atreya Ṛṣi: There you have a function of, more or less of a president, as well as the GBC, in that party.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Which is... In that case, it has to have GBC approval.
Prabhupāda: So...
Jayatīrtha: So we can adjourn for lunch and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can... Till next we meet again.
Jayatīrtha: So the rest of these things we can discuss in...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (2): Akṣayānanda (?) Swami told me to come to Madras.
Prabhupāda: So go to Madras. Whatever you like. That's all.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: She says, "Therefore does it mean that the solution has to come from India?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Solution has to come from Kṛṣṇa. The book is there, solution, Bhagavad-gītā. If you take it and practice it, the solution of all problems is there.
Girl: (German)
Prabhupāda: So you take any problem and find out the solution from Bhagavad-gītā.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: She says in the beginning it appears a little difficult to give up everything, but day by day, it becomes...
Prabhupāda: Where is the question of everything, giving up? It is to understand. First of all understand that what you are.
Haṁsadūta: (to girl) Understand?
Prabhupāda: First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are something beyond this body.
Girl: (German)
Prabhupāda: Hm? I am in the prison house, and the prison superintendent is controlling me fully, and if I say, "I don't care for anyone," what is this nonsense? Even in ordinary life, if somebody says, "I don't care for government laws. I shall do whatever I like," is it very good sense? Similarly, you are fully under the control of material nature, and you are declaring independence. You should, rather, consider that "Why I have been put under the control of material nature? I don't want it. I don't want to be diseased. But why disease is forced upon me? I don't want to become old man. Why it is forced upon me? I don't want to die. Why death is forced upon me?" These should be the proper questions. But instead of questioning this, he's thinking, "I am independent." How much foolish he is.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: So, she says, so the solution for the world is Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Therefore we are pushing on this movement, to make the rascals intelligent. That's all. The whole world is full of rascals, and we want to make them intelligent. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: Ja.
Girl: (German)
Prabhupāda: When we call them rascals, they become angry. And actually they are rascals. They do not know the problems of life.
Haṁsadūta: So she... Her next question is that in the last few days, approximately five hundred devotees have assembled here from all over the world. She says that she knows that this is the birthplace of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So therefore they have come. She knows that it is a holy place. She wants to know that even before Lord Caitanya's time, was it also considered to be a holy place?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is perpetually holy place, but it is known since the birthday of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Haṁsadūta: (German)
Prabhupāda: ...that everyone is doing his own duty. Never mind if you are Christian or if you are a Muslim or Hindu, that, what is your duty, what is said in your scripture, you must do it. Not that "Because it is secular, I can do whatever I like."
Governor: Secular means I respect you, not only I am Hindu or do what I do...
Prabhupāda: Secular means impartial.(?)
Governor: But also not come in the way of a Muslim.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. Secular means government's duty is that "You call yourself a Hindu. Whether you are acting as Hindu? You call yourself as Muslim. Whether you are acting as Muslim?" This is government's duty. Government does not say or prefer that "You are Christian. It is not good. You become Hindu." No, that is not government's... You remain your Christian, but government's duty is that whether he is acting as Christian. This is government's duty. Not that you are acting like a something else, and you are calling yourself Christian. You are acting like a śūdra, and you are advertising yourself as a brāhmaṇa. So just like a, what is called, quack. If he writes, "Dr. something," that is punishable. But you are quack. That's all right. You can take a certificate that you have got some experience. The registered medical practitioner, I think that is... But what is this, that you are proclaiming yourself as a... (chuckles) So character means a class of men there must be, maybe very few, but they are actually men of character. Just like I am teaching them no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is basic principle. Otherwise, where is his character? You are doing all nonsense, and still, you are proclaiming yourself as brāhmaṇa. This should be stopped. And a training college should be there how to make a real brāhmaṇa. I have given the example...
Prabhupāda: Ah, Vālmīki. There were many. There were, are many. Nārada. Nārada was a son of a maidservant, śūdra. He had no father. So dāsī-putra. And he became Nārada. So where is the restriction? Similarly, in the Jabalopaniṣad, Satyakāma Jabala, he was also a prostitute's son. And he approached Gautama Muni, "You kindly make me your disciple." Gautama Muni said, "What you are?" "I am my mother's son, that's all." "Then who is your father?" "That I do not know." "Ask your mother." So mother replied, "My dear son, I do not know who is your father." And he came and said to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know who is my father." Then Gautama Muni said, "Yes, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on. I shall..." Because speaking truth. So unless you are a son of a brāhmaṇa, you cannot speak such secret truth. Nobody will say that "I do not know who is my father." It is social scandal even up to date. But he plainly said that "My mother does not know who is my father." So immediately Gautama Muni accepted him as brāhmaṇa: "You are telling the truth." Satya śamaḥ damaḥ. Because it is first qualification. So such a high cultural life. Now we should take standard śāstra and follow and establish educational institution to train them. Otherwise, simply by crying in the wilderness, what will be the result? Now some result is there because I am practically training them. And before me, all the swamis went there. They lectured, that's all. So what is the meaning of lectures unless you train them? That "Our Hindu religion is very great, very nice, and whatever you like, you can do. It doesn't matter." Then where is the training? Now little effect is there because I am training them. As soon as one comes to me for becoming disciple, I place before him that "You have to give up all these habits." When he agrees, then I accept him. And therefore I have got some selected, trained-up men. So there must be this training college, institution, and proper training according to the śāstra. Then there is possibility of changing the whole situation. Then what is next?
Tripurāri: They think we are parasites, though.
Guest: Yes, that is another impression, but then we have to clear it up.
Prabhupāda: All right, parasite or not, but we are not working and getting our food.
Tripurāri: They say because we're begging from them. They are buying for us.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you stop? You are forced to give us. You stop. If we are begging from you, you stop it. But you cannot stop. You have to give us. We are showing that we are beggar, but we are taxing, exacting tax from you. You can think whatever you like.
Makhanlal: The government is also begging.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if we are begging, then you stop it. That is in your hand. We are not depending on you. (end)
Prabhupāda: There is a story. One man has written book how to tend cows. "Cows tending, cows tending, cows tending." So one old man calling, "What book you are selling?" "How to tend the cows." "So you better take this book to your mother. She will learn how to tend you." Cows tending everyone knows, and he has written a book. "So better... You are a rascal cow. Give it to your mother, and she will tend you, learn." It is like that. If everything is all right, somebody is taking, "This is pleasure," somebody..., then what is the use of writing book? Everything is all right. They may select whatever they like. Oh, why you are becoming a big preacher? Let them accept whatever they like.
Amogha: But some people have a hard time getting what they like. Therefore we like to help them. We feel that it's our duty as human beings to help them.
Prabhupāda: So this duty is that you better go to your mother. All nonsense theory. It has no meaning.
Śrutakīrti: If everything is all right, then my preaching that is also all right.
Prabhupāda: Your preaching is all right, so, provided you preach something good. But when everything is good, then where is the, your preaching required? You preach something. Just like we are preaching. We are preaching. This is actually good for, that he must know what he is and what is the ultimate goal of life. This is required. Material preaching has no value. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Ei bhāla ei manda, saba manodharma: " 'This is good; this is bad,' this is all mental concoction." Actually. But real good is: "He has forgotten God. Revive his consciousness." That is real good. Then he'll saved from the so-called good and bad and everything. That is wanted. Materially, everything is one man's food, another man's poison. Therefore there is no distinction—"This is good; this is bad." The stool is very bad, bad smell for you, but it is food for the pig. This is proof—"One man's food, another's poison." So this is only mental concoction, "This is good; this is bad."
Prabhupāda: Godlessness is one does not know what is God. And just like you know me. You have come to me. You know I am a person, I am talking, I have written so many books. This is knowing me. Similarly, one must know what is God, what is His feature, what does He do, what does He teach, what law He gives. This is knowing God. Simply to understand, "Oh, well, that is God. Let Him remain at His place, and let me do whatever I like," that is not understanding of God. You must know God just like you must know your father. If you are interested with your father's property, then you must know your father, who is your father.
Journalist: How is this godlessness showing itself in our society?
Prabhupāda: Godlessness means foolishness because...
Journalist: Is liquor... Too much liquor and self-indulgence?
Prabhupāda: There are details. There are so many things. The total is rascaldom and foolishness. Godlessness means rascaldom and foolishness.
Journalist: Ras...? Ras...?
Prabhupāda: Rascal. How can I say, "There is no God"? Is it very reasonable? Just like you have got a father, and your father has got father, his father has got father... Go on. You come to the supreme father, the original father. There must be one original father. That is God. How can I deny God? Can you deny?
Journalist: No, I don't deny.
Prabhupāda: Temple or no temple, you must be firmly determined. You can have God realization under this tree if you have got firm determination. Anywhere you can stay. But temple is the ordinary way, facility. If you are so, I mean to say, elevated, you may not come to temple, but ordinarily, for the neophytes, they must come to the temple. Why he does not come? Does he think that he has become very elevated? That is false. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was not going to the Jagannātha temple, but Jagannātha was coming to him. So if you are so strong like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, that is another thing. But if you falsely think or imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, then you go to hell. That's all. We should not falsely think that "Now I am advanced and elevated. I can do whatever I like." That is not our...
Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Lord Brahmā created something called self-deception. Would self-deception mean that if I think I am forced to fall down, but actually I wanted to fall down, but I think, "Oh, I am forced"? Is that self-deception?
Prabhupāda: Force? Force means if you violate the rules, then you are forced. If you contaminate some disease, then you are forced to suffer from the disease. If you don't contaminate, then you remain safe.
Hari-śauri: But one must come to that point of being serious to recognize the problems of life? Before one can understand your books, the karmī must become serious to understand that he is in misery and that he must get out?
Prabhupāda: So without understanding, you were initiated? Do you think? Why you were initiated if you did not understand the seriousness? Why do you take initiation? That means cheating. You do not understand; still, you show that "I am now understanding." (break)
Prabhupāda: No, we don't take that, by number of people. We take how many people are taking actually. But neither... Ekaś candras tamo hanti: "If one man accepts, then he can become the bright moon." Na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ: "The so-called stars has no value." One moon is sufficient. So our preaching is: Let one man understand Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We don't want disciples. I never collected disciples. I never compromised that "You can do whatever you like, and you become my disciple. "No. You have to follow this. Now also, this morning, I accepted so many... "First promise whether you are going to do this. Then I initiate." This is my policy. If I would have said, "No, you can do whatever you like, and give me some money. I shall give you mantra," then you would have seen millions. But I accept very selected disciple, not that anyone, everyone comes, and I accept disciple. No. He is first of all trained up six months. Then, when he is able to promise to follow the regulative..., then I accept. This is stricture. It is not that everyone comes, "Give me thirty-five dollars. I give you mantra, and within six months you become God." I do not do that.
Dr. Copeland: You should add humor to honesty.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Amogha: He said as one of the qualifications, we should add good humor, to honesty. He says you have good humor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. One who has got knowledge, he is humorous also.
Dr. Copeland: Ah. (laughs) Oh. Well, what do we do now?
Prabhupāda: That is God's supremacy. "If I don't give you water to drink, you cannot drink." And still, they are independent. Just see the fun. Even water, three-fourths of water, you cannot use a drop of water for drinking unless God gives you. He creates the cloud and give you. That is not your arrangement. You cannot do. Still they are independent. Jale kali-vāsa, nāme tila phyāsa. Sometimes sailors,(?) for being thirsty, they died in water. How they declare independence from Him? "There is no God. There is no authority. We are independent. We can do whatever we like." Childish.
Gurukṛpa: I think it's because they are meat-eaters, all their intelligence is completely gone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vina pasughnat: (SB 10.1.4) Unless one is meat-eater, nobody can be disinterested in God's affairs. Only the meat-eaters, vinā paśughnāt, killers of animal. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). This glorification of God is especially done by persons who are completely free from material attachment. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagiyamanad bhavauśādhi (SB 10.1.4). And it is the medicine of getting free from this material bondage. Bhavauśādhi. And it is also very pleasing. Otherwise why they come to hear the Hare Kṛṣṇa? It's such a nice thing. Who does not like it unless he is a killer of animals? So even the killer of animals, they also hear. It is so nice. Only the gross killers, most abominable, they do not hear it.
Gurukṛpa: Last night we saw groups of people on and off going by holding their ears. They were putting their fingers in their ears.
Prabhupāda: Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagiyamanad bhavauśādhi chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). (break)
Prabhupāda: That information we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, after giving up this material, he is not coming any more with this material body. This is our philosophy. And if you again die and again come another material body, so what is the use of this education? You cannot dictate that "My mother nature, don't make me a dog next life." She is not subjected to your dictation. She is subjected by Kṛṣṇa's dictation. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). She is not your servant, you are servant of the nature. So you are declaring independence, but you are servant of the material nature. That they are not thinking. Unnecessarily they are thinking independence. What is the nonsense independence? You are dependent on the laws of nature, and you are thinking independence. How much foolishness it is. This is psychology. They are wrongly thinking how to correct them. Is it not? Are they not wrongly thinking? Everyone is thinking, "I am independent. I can do whatever I like." How much foolish he is.
Dr. Gerson: That's what psychology's been trying to teach people: to do whatever they want to do because they have the power.
Prabhupāda: That's... But can he do anything as he likes?
Dr. Gerson: That's right.
Dr. John Mize: It is puzzling to me that one would be so foolish.
Prabhupāda: Because by independence you can become foolish. Otherwise, there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do whatever you like. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Find out this verse in the Eighteenth Chapter. That independence is there. After instructing the whole Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa gave him the independence, "Now whatever you like, you can do." Kṛṣṇa never forced him to accept the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. He gave him the independence, "Now whatever you like, you can do." And he agreed. "Yes. Now my illusion is over, I shall act as You say." The same independence. Yes.
Bahulāśva: This is in the Eighteenth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). "Now you do whatever you like."
Jayatīrtha: Because Kṛṣṇa is independent, therefore the part and parcels...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Part and parcel must have a little portion of independence. Qualitatively, part and parcel means... Just like you take a drop of water from the sea. The, all the chemical composition is there in the drop. So Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. So we living entities we are drop. Still, the independence quality is there in minute quantity.
Dr. John Mize: But Kṛṣṇa has no tendency to fall, whereas we do.
Prabhupāda: No. Because Kṛṣṇa is God. Therefore He is all good. Even He falls down, to our estimation, it is not fall down. (break) ...cannot judge God. If we are devotee, in all circumstances we shall glorify God, "You are all-good." That is devotee. You cannot criticize God, "Oh, You are doing such thing," no.
Dr. John Mize: I'm still puzzled about the relationship of the soul to God. If the soul is eternal, as God is, and yet some souls have the tendency to fall and others don't have that tendency...
Prabhupāda: No, no, eternal does not mean not fall. Suppose you are now professor. So you can fall down from your position. But that does not mean you are not eternal. If you are fall down from your position, you do not lose your eternity. You simply fall down. You can become a professor; you can become an ordinary man. But you are eternal in all circumstance. Eternal... Fall down does not mean that he loses his eternal. That is stated that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out. Ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The living entity is never born or it never dies. This is eternity. You change your body, but you eternal.
Bahulāśva: He'll be arriving tomorrow night. He just got in from Boston and he wanted one day to rest a little bit, and then he'll be coming tomorrow night. He'll probably get here around seven o'clock and then he'll come on the walk in the morning and then you can, as you like, you can speak with him that day. He has spoke already with the publisher, the Wiley Company and he is getting permission that you wanted him to publish some part of his book, that preface. So he is getting permission from them to do that. He also... I was speaking with him. He also said that if you wanted, he would write more different things supporting our movement. Some little thing to print, like some little book, like we had "The Scientific Basis," he could write some little things independently and we could print whatever you like. He is very eager to help.
Rāmeśvara: You mean like a foreword?
Bahulāśva: Whatever you like.
Rāmeśvara: He could print some foreword and it would be inserted in our book?
Bahulāśva: He said he'll write whatever Prabhupāda wants. He is surrendered.
Prabhupāda: Learned scholars, philosophers, they should understand the importance of this movement and how it is beneficial. They are suffering for want of knowledge of the spirit soul. They are keeping themselves in the animal platform with their so-called education, but unless there is spiritual understanding, the education has no value. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇa mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). He will remain on the mental platform. And mind is now materially contaminated. So even if he remains in the mental platform, he remains in the material platform. He cannot make any improvement. One has to come to the spiritual platform. That is required.
Prabhupāda: Challenge that "I shall kick on the face of this rascal, and if he is God, let him punish me. If he is God, let him punish me. I am prepared. So come on in the public. I kick on his face, and let him do whatever he likes. I am prepared. If it is God, let me (him) kill me by his mantra or by his will. Then I will accept him." This is challenge, that "I shall kick on his face in public, and if he is God, let him punish me." And you are so fool that you are accepting this rascal as God? You belong to American nation, advanced. You have become so rascal? Challenge like that. He has come to cheat you, and why you are so befooled that you are being cheated? He is convicted in the court that he is a, what is called, deceiver. Yes. The court judgment is there. He is a deceiver.
Brahmānanda: There's now a warrant for his arrest.
Prabhupāda: Now there's a warrant for his arrest. What he can do? And he is God? God is so cheap and you have accepted him as God? What is this nonsense? But we give you credit, that you are searching after God. That is... So try to understand by education. What is this nonsense, blindly accepting some rascal as God? Everyone knows God is great. Is he great? Then why he is punished by the court? This is the park?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And very nice park. And not far away. (break) ...interested with this natural history. That means Darwin's theory. That's all. Their whole civilization is based on this Darwin's theory. How long you shall keep history? Do you know what is the history of the sun, when it was created, when it came into appearance? Can Darwin give us the history of the sun, of the moon, of the sky? Where is the history? There is history, but where is your history? You simply imagine, "There was a chunk, and it became manifested as the sun, moon, and I am also this..." What is this? How this cosmic manifestation came into existence—your explanation is: "There was a chunk." And what other nonsense? (break) walking: ...house is on the water? No. (break) ...coughing. Catch cold?
Harikeśa: Hawaii was not a very healthy place for me. Hawaii.
Prabhupāda: The answer is... Then we come to the details. So you say, "Christian," and I find to find out a Christian. I find difficulty to find out one Christian. I must frankly say, because the so-called Christians, they do not abide by the Bible's order that in the Christian's Bible it is said, "Thou shall not kill." and where is a Christian who does not kill? So this can be effective only persons who are practicing religion. So these persons, they are trained to practice. So their chanting of the holy name of God and others' are different. (break) It is not simply a rubber stamp position. It must be practiced, realized. This chanting of holy name by our men who are trained up and the same chanting by others will be different. Of course, if you... (break) ...your Hindu principle. That is secular state, not to remain callous: "Whatever you like you can do. We have no concern to see." That is not government's duty.
Lt. Mozee: Sir, isn't the difficulty, rather, that the group of, I want to call them, hard-core group, the priests, the devotees, the followers, the little circle of people, have always been the ones that have followed the practices, but the fringe... Assume for example that Hare Kṛṣṇa grew to gigantic proportions as Christianity has grown. Would not it be the problem that the fringe areas, the ones who were not, who professed to be the followers... Would not they be the difficulty as the Christian is today? You have said that you...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that possibility is always there. But my proposal is that if you are not true Christian, then your preaching will not be effective. I don't say that now we are strictly following and we will not fall down in future. I don't say that. That fall down propensity, tendency is always there. But my proposal is that unless one is strictly follower of the principles, his preaching will not be effective. That is my charge.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Even one is sinful, he will also go?
Jagadīśa: Yes. Because they say that God is all-merciful, therefore...
Prabhupāda: You can do whatever you like.
Brahmānanda: God becomes the order-supplier.
Jayatīrtha: They have a big temple.
Prabhupāda: This is Ba'hai temple?
Jagadīśa: No, no, it's back the other way.
Jayatīrtha: It's much bigger than this building?
Jagadīśa: Yes, it's quite a..., very nice. (break) (walking:)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. Will these people accept this? Hm?
Jayatīrtha: They won't like to.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Prabhupāda: And what is the benefit of remaining with the parents to become hippies? For training. We are trying to train first-class men. So if, from the very beginning of life, one is trained... That is the Vedic civilization. Kaumāraṁ ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. "One should be trained up to become God conscious from the very beginning of life," kaumāra. Kaumāra means after five years. Up to five years the children may have all freedom. Whatever he likes, he may do. But when he is five years old, he must be under training. That is the old system. Gurukula means to send the boy, especially boy, not the girl, to be trained up at the place of the spiritual master or teacher. Just like what is that public school? They also send their small children to the public school. Montesori? What is that?
Bahulāśva: Montesori school.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the small children are trained up. It is something like that.
Bhaktadāsa: I think you've answered this question, but he wants to know how will Kṛṣṇa consciousness affect all the religions and politics of the world at this time.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that any system you take, without God consciousness it is zero. Just like hundreds and thousands of zeros, if you put together, the value is zero. But if you put one, the value increases immediately. That one is God. So either in politics or in sociology or philosophy, religion, everywhere, if there is no God sense, it is all zero. That is going on. Therefore, despite all advancement of education, economic development, people are in chaotic condition, they are not satisfied, and everything is being tried to make it very nice. The United Nation is there, working for the last thirty years, but there is no solution because it is all zero without God. Bring God and everything will be nice. Take any question, just like economic question. There is now very acute, especially in our country. Now, the God says that "Your economic problem will be solved like this." What is that? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14)
Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.
- vāsudeve bhagavati
- bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
- janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
- jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
- (SB 1.2.7)
If one is engaged in the devotional service of Vasudeva, then he immediately becomes vairāgī—no attachment for material things—and knowledge. But most of these rascals, they are nondevotees. The so-called mahanta, he is not mahanta-mohāndha: "great blind." So that is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring everyone to the stage of devotional service to Vāsudeva. Then it will be all right. Other platform will never be successful. Simply show. It is not fact. (break) ...also take it very easily that "I haven't got to do anything. My Guru Mahārāja is there. He will do everything. I can do whatever I like." The Christians are doing like that, that "Jesus Christ will suffer. We indulge in sinful activities. That's all." This is their policy. It is perhaps in our movement only that each and every individual is being trained up. Others they do not do that. "I have made a guru; then my business is finished. Now I can do whatever I like." (To dogs barking:) Hut!
Passerby: Max! Max! Come here. Come on, buddy.
Prabhupāda: Good friends. (laughter)
Harikeśa: Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut! (break)
Prabhupāda: ...ing friendship with dog, then what he will be? He'll become dog. That's all. He will not hear anything. Sadā tad bhāva bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6).
Prabhupāda: No, they want to be cheated. What can be done? Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). Just like the advertisement, "No faith, no philosophy, no restriction." You want all these things; therefore he has come to cheat you: "Yes. No regulation. You can do whatever you like." And then he will praised, "Oh, he is good, good swamiji. He has no restriction. And here is a most conservative swamiji. 'Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this.' " They want to be cheated. As soon as you speak the truth they will not accept. They will argue. What is the wrong in illicit sex? Why he's restricting? This is the... They go to guru to teach the guru, not to take lesson from the guru. What is that?
Mādhavānanda: ...thinks that they have some responsibility in the world, and if you say all of a sudden that "You have no responsibility..."
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "Yes, you have responsibility so long you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious," not that a person who is not in the devotional service of the Lord, he can say, "I have no responsibility." He cannot say.
Bhagavān: Duty.
Prabhupāda: He cannot. He has all the duties. But one who has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any reservation, he has no duty. He has no respons...
Prabhupāda: That's all. You simply become sorry and everything is finished. That's all. I do not know what to do. (break) ... whatever you like. Whatever like, what can I do? (Bengali conversation) So what are you going to do about this finishing? Everything... (Hindi?)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll start getting it done now.
Prabhupāda: How you'll do? You say you have no money. How you'll do it? Whole money is going to the stomach. All ghee, all money, everything. And becoming sick and sleepy. Whole day and night sleep. I do not know when it will be finished. What is the use of starting another Gurukula? Whatever you have taken, that is not yet finished. All savvy(?). And your report is, "Everything is all right." Everything is all right except nothing is finished. So I do not know how to do. There was shops made, and why it is closed again?
Dhanañjaya: Because Mr. Sharapi(?) came.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him go to the court. We shall see.
Dhanañjaya: Now he's agreed.
Prabhupāda: Then now again break; again make shop. This is going on. There was no expenditure to make the shop, and again closing, there was expenditure. So money is spent like this—"Make it and break it." That is American way.
Dhanañjaya: There is no cement. It is all mud, just muddy.
Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, māyā, will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal the police will punish you.
Brahmānanda: But we're going to change the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. (laughter) That is also replied, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). "You cannot do that, my dear sir. You rascal, you are thinking like that. That is not possible."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say they've already made so much progress.
Prabhupāda: You go on making progress but you will never come to the ultimate goal. You can go on foolishly. That's all right. Just like they made progress, United Nations. What progress they have made?
Harikeśa: They made a nice building.
Prabhupāda: That's right. (laughs) There are so many buildings.
Prabhupāda: No, that we shall consider. First of all we have to see that I learn that my position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So why I am put into this body which is hanyamāna? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Yes. (Hindi) They want to remain in darkness, and any leader who will keep him in the darkness in flowery language, he will be welcomed: "Oh, he is very good leader." "And this man is very conservative: 'Don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.' " So here is freedom. "Whatever you like, you do"—here is freedom. If this rascal does not do what you do and you go to hell, that is their business. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, "You rascal, where is your freedom?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you see. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So where is your freedom? First of all get out of these things; then question of freedom. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is your knowledge, that "Where is my freedom? If I am under the rules and regulation of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, then where is my freedom?" (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Simply rubber-stamped freedom will help me? Suppose I was dependent on British rule, and now I have become free. So will this help me to get freedom from janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi? Then where is my freedom? What are major questions, they have set aside. "Don't discuss all these things, and bother your head with trifle things." And our philosophy is that "Don't bother with these trifle things. Just seriously think of the major problems." This is our philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt (BG 12.7). Samuddahartā, just to deliver them from this ocean of mṛtyu-saṁsāra. That is not care. Real freedom is given by him—that you don't care. (break) ...will be given by Kṛṣṇa. This is no freedom. Here the so-called freedom-giver, he has no freedom. And what he will give, freedom? Gandhiji preached so much about nonviolence, and nonviolence said, "All right, you have no freedom from nonviolence. You die." (Hindi) (break) ...is there, there is no question of freedom.
Prabhupāda: No. That is not possible. You have already given good medicine, good physician. And why he is dying? You cannot do anything. That is your position. You may try to do, but that is futile. Ultimate is different.
Cyavana: So by giving him medicine, maybe I can give him a better chance...
Prabhupāda: "Maybe" can be, but it is not guaranteed. You cannot do anything.
Cyavana: But at least I should try.
Prabhupāda: Try. Foolishly you try whatever you like. That is another thing. But it is not under your control. You can try. That is your... Of course, you must try as a dutiful father, but you should know that you cannot take any guarantee or do anything, good or bad. That you have already said, "the destiny." That is prominent. That is prominent, not you.
Cyavana: The tendency of the humans...
Prabhupāda: You can do the best to train your child to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is in your power. That you can do. That is the best service, not anything else. That is not possible. If you become yourself Kṛṣṇa conscious, and if you try to make your son Kṛṣṇa conscious, that you can do. And that is the duty, real duty. Other things, you cannot do anything. That is destiny. And if you make him Kṛṣṇa conscious, then destiny can also be changed. This is the concession of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Destiny also can be changed. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). One who comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his karma is also changed.
Cyavana: Is that karma dovetailed?
Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. Exploiting, that's all. This is their business. Just like Pakistan politicians, as soon as they cannot supply food, they declare war with India. The attention is diverted. Here also we have seen in the last war. When no man was joining, so in India, they created artificial famine. So for want of food they joined military. The government created a situation, purchased all the food grains and stocked. And when the price is very high the government opened controlled shop at high price. The people had no money; therefore they were obliged to join military. These polit..., demons, they are so dangerous, simply to keep their position they are doing all nefarious activities. Simply there is... Because they don't believe in the next birth, they are not afraid of sinful activities. They can do anything, "Whatever I like. There is no... This life is finished." That is the whole philosophy of the modern educated man, "There is no life." Big, big professors, they say like that, "There is no life after death." Therefore the Ārya-samājī rascal was: "That is Hindu belief." Why Hindu belief? Does the Mohammedan do not grow old? That answer he could not give. He is such a rascal. And at last he said that "I am God."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are dogmatic.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Government for the people, by the people."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Democracy idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is democracy.
Brahmānanda: Usually their philosophy is that anyone has the liberty to do whatever he likes as long as it doesn't hurt another, as long as it doesn't infringe on another's liberty.
Prabhupāda: Then how you are killing the animals? (break) ...eat meat, therefore you are killing poor animals. Why you are interfering others' life? (break) ...the best park here. (break) Here there is no such park.
Brahmānanda: Really?
Prabhupāda: Nice park. (break)
Cyavana: ...agricultural.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. All opulent.
Cyavana: Yes. All fruits...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no such education, that there are dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13) and there are 8,400,000 different forms of deha. Which one he is going to get? Nobody is serious about it. He thinks, "Things will go on like this. I am very free to do anything." That is going on. Mūḍha. Mūḍha, rascal. Duṣkṛtino mūḍha. They will never hear the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. They will do whatever he likes and interpret in a different way. (Hindi) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāh (BG 7.15). He could take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and make his life perfect, but because he is mūḍha and full of sinful activities he will not do that.
Dr. Patel: māyayāpahṛta-jñānam asurīṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Although he is very proud of his material knowledge, it has no value. Because he is dependent on the laws of material nature, what his knowledge will help him? Suppose a very big man of this material world, he commits some sin. Does it mean that because he has got big qualification he will be saved from the laws? No. He must suffer. So mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot avoid even these material laws, so how you can avoid the nature's law? Mama māyā duratyayā. Very, very difficult, but still, they are thinking, "Oh, we are independent. We can do anything." Therefore mūḍhas.
Dr. Patel: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām...
Prabhupāda: Taranti te. Yes. So this is the position. Therefore our propaganda is that "You take Kṛṣṇa and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and then you'll be happy." This is our propaganda. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We have to simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. (aside:) Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that "Now you take sannyāsa and become guru. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You have come to Africa. Now become their guru and deliver them."
Prabhupāda: You may do whatever occupational duty you are... But you have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then your everything is perfect. And if you satisfy your senses, then you are going to hell. This is the position. Therefore it is... Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). Even that karma is abominable, sa-doṣam api na tyājet (BG 18.48). "You go on with your work. Even there is some fault, it doesn't matter, but you satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect." Just like Arjuna did. The fighting is not good business, but he satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Therefore by fighting, he became a great devotee-sva-karmaṇā. He did not leave his position as a kṣatriya, as a gṛhastha, but he... Karisye vacanam tava: (BG 18.73) "Yes. In spite of my not being inclined to fight, because You are asking, I'll do it." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) (break) You remain in your place, but you have your ears to hear Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be perfect. What is the difficulty? You remain as a doctor. You remain as a pleader. You remain whatever you like. It doesn't matter. But engage your aural reception to the words of Kṛṣṇa. Then you become perfect. What is the difficulty? Simply sit down and hear what Kṛṣṇa says, Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And if you say that "I simply hear," and if you do not act, no, you'll act because as you go on hearing, your heart will be purified. Then you will be inclined to hear..., er, act.
Indian man (3): I was going to ask this question, but... (laughing)
Prabhupāda: Then how you can? These rascals, these Māyāvādīs, they play rāsa-līlā. (break) ...ācarati śreṣṭhas means that śreṣṭha is ordinary person, but not Bhagavān. Bhagavān can act any way. And still, Bhagavān has never instructed you that "You imitate Me in raising the Govardhana Hill." Has He said like that, that "You also raise the Govardhana Hill like Me"? (break) ...orders man-manā bhava mad-bhakto ṁad-yājī mām. That is for you. Always think of Him. Always become His devotee. Worship Him. Offer your obeisances. That's all. That is for you. Yasodamayi was asking Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, can you bring the slipper of Your father?" He could not. He was a small child. Still, with great difficulty He could raise that. But the person who can raise the Govardhana Hill, He was feeling difficulty to raise the slipper? Why? If at that time He becomes like Govardhana, Giridhārī, then the līlā between father and son will be damaged. He plays just like a child. Although He can raise even in that age, to raise the hill. One should understand Kṛṣṇa. Everyone compares Him with ordinary man: "Kṛṣṇa has done this? Then I shall do." Kṛṣṇa has done so many other things. Why don't you do it? This rascal... Anyone who imitates Kṛṣṇa on the plea that "Kṛṣṇa has played this; therefore we shall do." He can do anything. He can eat meat and He can eat the whole universe. That was shown to His mother: "Mother, you are angry because I have eaten dirt. Now see within My mouth the whole universe is in. So what is the question of dirt and sea and ocean? I can eat everything." (break) ...sam na doṣāya. Just like this sun. It dry up this urine. It is not infected. But you lick up this urine and let us see how powerful you are. Tejasaṁ na doṣāya. Who is powerful, he can do anything and everything, whatever he likes. You cannot do that. (break) ...example. This urine, within an hour it will be dried up. How it is dried up? Due to the sun. But the sun is not polluted. But you try to dry up and see the result.
Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Wasn't it Lord Rāmacandra's purpose to actually display by His activity how a perfect human being should act?
Prabhupāda: Who said?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the, when in the morning, it is let loose, then he says, "I don't care for any hahaa, cawcaw." Then in the evening, when they are pushed into the, that what is called? Nest? "Cawcawcawcaw. Whatever you like you can do, whatever you like you can do." (laughter) This is the example. You see? When he's under the arrest, "Now sir, whatever you like, you do with me. If you like you can excuse me." (laughter) And when he's out, "I don't care for anyone." Mūrgī intelligence. Rooster intelligence. This is our proposal. "I don't care for anyone. I am God." Mūrgī logic. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12), if one is not a devotee, his only business is to remain on the mental platform and concoct things. And at the end he thinks that "I am God." Concoction. Therefore it is said in the śāstra, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). One who is not a devotee, he has no good qualification. He is simply on the, hovering on the mental platform.
Hari-śauri: The sixteenth chapter describes it very nicely...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca, na vidur āsurāḥ (BG 16.7). In which way we have direct out activities, in which way we shall have to stop our activities: they do not know. Āsurāḥ janā. Because they don't take direction from God. They make their own way of speculation. So therefore, they are animals, or demons. Because they do not take direction during life, therefore at the end Kṛṣṇa comes, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). All mental speculation, creation, is taken away at death. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa! It is said, kṛṣṇa nama koro vai ar sabe miche palaiba patha nāi yama āche piche: take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, don't try to escape. Because behind you there is Yamaraja! (laughs) He will finish your all concoction. Hare Kṛṣṇa! (end)
| Page Title: | Whatever you like (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 14 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=84, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 84 |