Prabhupāda: Now, the material nature has got three modes: goodness, passion and ignorance, and mixture. So we are associating with the modes of material nature, and according to that nature we are manufacturing our next body. This is the . . . so in the material world we are infecting several types of quality of the nature. Not everyone is on the same quality. Just like these boys, they are being trained up under certain quality. They're not going to the restaurant, they are not going to the liquor shop, they're not smoking, they're not eating meat, they have no illicit sex. They are being trained up. This is a quality. And another man is going to the liquor shop, to the brothel, so many other things. They're not of the same quality.
Jesuit: What is it all leading to? What does it all lead them to? A state of liberation from material things?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are two . . . now in the human form of life, we have got two selection. I think in the Bible also it is said that one goes to hell, one goes to heaven. So we have got two selection, either to the path of hellish condition or to the path of back to home, back to Godhead. This is human life. It is, in Sanskrit word, it is called pravṛtti-mārga, nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga means stopping the material way of life and go to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead.
Jesuit: Does that mean that the things such as—you mentioned smoking and alcohol and sex and meat—that all those things are material and therefore bad?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jesuit: Take sex. How can that be considered . . .?
Prabhupāda: Or Christian religion also there is celibacy, life. You also trained them, the nuns, the priests, they are not meant for marrying.
Jesuit: That's true. We don't say that sex is bad.
Prabhupāda: Why they are forbidden to marry?
Jesuit: Well, it's a question of something I freely accept, freely accept not to marry.
Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.
Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept, because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man . . .
Prabhupāda: Good . . . what is good for you is not good for me. One man's food is another man's poison.
Jesuit: But everything that God makes is good.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, good for somebody. Just like stool—stool is good for the pigs, not for the human being.
Jesuit: But everything that God makes . . .
Prabhupāda: Not everything is good. The pigs considers stool is very good, nice food.
Jesuit: Every man is made with sex appetites. Every man is . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called pravṛtti, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā (Manu-saṁhitā). This is natural inclination. But if you can stop it, that is victory.