Very learned (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"very learned"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Several thousand. And they were loudly chanting and meeting Lord... So when the chanting was going on the Chand Kazi appeared and there was discussion between... Chand Kazi was also very great scholar, and Lord Caitanya was also scholar. So Chand Kazi, just to pacify them, he addressed Caitanya, "My dear boy, You happen to be my nephew. You are my sister's son. Why You are so angry upon Your maternal uncle?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu got the clue that he was prepared to make compromise. So He also mildly replied, "Yes, you are My uncle, I know. So because you are My uncle, therefore I have come to your house. How is that when the nephew comes that you do not receive Him? In an angry mood you go upstairs?" So in this way, the situation was pacified. Then they sat together and there was a very learned discussion between the two. Because Hindus are always against cow killing. So he was Muhammadan. They were killing cow.

Hayagrīva: Chand...

Prabhupāda: Chand Kazi.

Hayagrīva: Muhammadan.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: "You may be situated in any section. It doesn't matter." Either you be a kṣatriya or a brāhmaṇa or a potter or a washerman or whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Everyone should be satisfied by his occupation. But how one gets successful by his occupation? He hasn't got to change the occupation. In the material world one has to change his occupation for certain kind of success. Suppose if you are a potter. Now, if you want to become engineer, so you have to change your occupation as potter. But in the spiritual world you haven't got to change your position, and still, you get success, spiritual life. That is the beauty. You haven't got to change. If somebody says that "Sir, I am potter. How can I be Kṛṣṇa conscious? It requires that one should be a brāhmaṇa, one should be very learned man, Vedānta philosophy, and one must have the sacred thread, and this and that. So I am a potter. I am a cobbler. I am a washerman." No. Kṛṣṇa says, "No." You do not require to change. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says, "You do not require to change." Kṛṣṇa says that svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. You just try to worship the Supreme Lord by the result of your occupation. Because Kṛṣṇa requires everything. So if you are a potter, you supply pots. If you are florist, you supply flower. If you are carpenter, you work for temple. If you are washerman, then wash clothing of the temple. Temple is the center, Kṛṣṇa. And everyone gets chance to offer his service. Therefore temple worship is very nice. So this temple should be organized in such a way that we don't require any money. You give your service. That's all. You be engaged in your service. Don't change your service. But you try to serve the-temple means the Supreme Lord—by your occupational duty.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple is open for everyone. Let them come and sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, hear Bhagavad-gītā. We don't say, "Oh, are you potter? No. You are not allowed." We don't say that. "Are you cobbler? Oh, you are not allowed." No. We don't say that. Everyone is welcome. Come on. And what is the business? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everyone can do it. And what is the next business? We read some nice philosophical portion from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yes. You have got ears. (shouts:) But the rascals are not coming! That is their rascaldom. Because they will go to hell. We are offering the greatest facility, but they are so rascals they are not coming. This is a rascaldom civilization. What is difficulty there? You come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take nice prasādam, hear philosophy, see nice pictures, decorated Deity. What is the difficulty there? But their brain is full with rascaldom. They will go to cinema, they will go to hotel, they will go to some other thing, but they will not come to temple, or church, or anywhere where these things are being done. This is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means they are so condemned that they don't take facility of the highest benefit. They have been educated. They have been trained in such a way that they don't like this. But this is their success. Bhāgavata says, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Vibhāgaśaḥ means sectional division. "My dear learned brāhmaṇas..." Because Suta Gosvāmī was speaking to very learned assembly of brāhmaṇas Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because it is understandable not by ordinary class of men. But they are not disallowed. It depends on the speaker to present very nicely for their understanding. It is not, I mean to say, stopped. Nityam bhāgavata-sevaya (SB 1.2.18). This is the process.

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: This verse was twice explained, two times explained: once before Sanatāna Gosvāmī and once before Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was considered at that time to be the greatest learned man in India. At that time nyāya-śāstra, logic, amongst the learned scholar logic is the greatest weapon to get victory over His opponent. So learned scholar is always a very learned scholar in logic, nyāya-śāstra. So this logic was taught in Bihar, Dharvanga. India, in different parts of India, different kinds of education was imparted. In Benares, the Mayavāda philosophy was very prominent. In Dharvanga, logic was very prominent. In Navadvīpa, philosophy was very prominent, and nyāya also. Similarly, in Bharampura, Bharatpura. There are many places, just like at the present moment there are many places, university. So He was great logician, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In His boyhood He would ask His contemporary friends to argue with Him on a subject matter, and He'll defeat him. And again He'll establish it. The very point on which He defeated His friend, He'll again establish it, and again nullify it. He was so talented. His name was therefore, other name, was Nimāi Paṇḍita. One name is Gaurasundara, another name is Nimāi Paṇḍita. Paṇḍita means very learned scholar. And that is not hearsay, that because we are devotees we are speaking of Lord Caitanya very learned scholar. The evidence is there in the explanation of ātmārāma śloka. He has explained that śloka in sixty-four different ways, one verse. He has described one word, ātmārāma, in eleven ways. Similarly munayo, nirgranthāḥ, urukrama, bhakti. Each word He has enunciated in so many ways.

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: That is dhana pratigraha. Pratigraha means accept offerings from others. Just like you offered so many things to me-money, clothing, food—so a sannyāsī, a brāhmaṇa, can accept. Not others. A gṛhastha cannot. There are restriction. A brahmacārī can, but he can accept on behalf of his spiritual master, not personally. These are the rules. So He was learned brāhmaṇa, and people used to present Him profusely, so He had no economics problem. Not that He renounced the world on account of poverty or some strain. He had no poverty, He was opulent. A brāhmaṇa does not require any great amount of wealth just to pull on his family. So that much amount was more than that He was receiving. He was teacher also. Paṭhana, pāṭhana, yajana, yājana. Brahmin's business is to teach and to become a very learned scholar and teach people how to worship Kṛṣṇa and become devotee himself, and accept charities from others and distribute it again. So He had all these opulences without any difficulty, and His family life—mother, wife... Caṇākya Paṇḍita says,

mātā yasya gṛhe nāsti

bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī

araṇyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ

yathāraṇyaṁ tathā gṛham

Caṇākya Paṇḍita is giving too much stress on mother and wife in family life. So he says if one's mother is dead and if his wife is not very..., apriya-vādinī, and does not behave very well, ill-behaving, so Caṇākya Paṇḍita advises him that aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: such person should immediately go to the forest. Because in the Vedic understanding there is no divorce. If the wife is not very pleasing, there is no question of divorcing.

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they have reached that unalloyed stage: without any consideration, simply loving Kṛṣṇa. That stage they have passed already. There is no such consideration. Pure love. That is pure love. Pure love means anyābhilāśitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). There is no question of knowledge. What these gopīs...? They were damsels, cowherds girls. They had no study of Vedānta or anything knowledge. Simply ordinary village girls. How they attained such love for Kṛṣṇa? That is not ordinary thing. So it is not a thing that one should attain the transcendental loving platform of Kṛṣṇa by studying. No. vinā mahat-pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. It can be achieved by the grace of Kṛṣṇa or by the grace of Kṛṣṇa's devotees. It is not that because one is very learned, he will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Or because one is rich, therefore he will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, or because one is great mystic, therefore he will. No. That will come... vinā mahat-pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. It cannot be achieved without touching the dust of lotus feet of a great devotee. That is the affect. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended,

sādhu saṅga sādhu saṅga sarva śāstra kaya

lavamātra sādhu saṅge sarva siddhi haya

So this association is required. If you can make your Kṛṣṇa consciousness society perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, wherever you will go, they will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, simply by your presence. So you have to become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There should be no adulteration. That adulteration means that knowledge and fruitive activities and material desires. If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is freed from these three kinds of contamination, then that is pure. (end)

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Then the analogy and metaphor should be like that. Nothing should be twice repeated. So there is Sāhitya-ratna in Sanskrit, Sāhitya-ratna. Caitanya Mahāprabhu defeated one great scholar simply by little mistake. Yes. Keśava Kāśmīrī. Keśava Kāśmīrī was great scholar, and Sanskrit great scholar means he must fluently speak in Sanskrit verses everything.

Allen Ginsberg: Everything he says must be done in perfect Sanskrit verses?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Yes. That is Sanskrit scholar. Not in prose. He'll go on composing verses. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu at that time was sixteen years old boy, but He was very learned logician. So the Keśava Kāśmīrī, he was traveling all over India by, I mean to say, competing other paṇḍitas, other learned scholars. So he, everywhere he was victorious. So he came to Navadvīpa. And in those days Navadvīpa and Benares and Udipi and Kashmir, four, five places, were very scholarly.

Allen Ginsberg: I have been to Birbhum.

Prabhupāda: Birbhum.

Allen Ginsberg: I've been through Birbhum, yes. Navadvīpa also.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: So when he came to Navadvīpa, that was the... In all other places he was victorious. So all the Navadvīpa paṇḍitas, they conferred that "Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded to talk with him. And if he is defeated by Nimāi Paṇḍita, then we'll become victorious because a boy has defeated him. But if Nimāi Paṇḍita becomes defeated, then we'll get another chance: 'No, you have defeated boy. Let us come.' " In this way they make. So Keśava Kāśmīrī was informed that first of all he'll have to talk with Nimāi Paṇḍita. So one day Nimāi Paṇḍita, boy Nimāi Paṇḍita, was talking with his disciples, students. And Keśava Kāśmīrī was strolling on the Ganges side. So he heard that this boy is Nimāi Paṇḍita. "Oh, I will have to talk with Him? He is a boy." So he went there, and when He was acquainted that Keśava Kāśmīrī..., "Oh, please come down, sit." So Nimāi Paṇḍita said that "I have heard that you are so learned scholar. Now we are on the Ganges side. You can chant the glorification of mother Ganges. She may hear and enjoy." So he was very learned scholar. Immediately he composed hundred verses, one hundred. And fluent, very fluently he went on. Then, out of that one hundred verses, in the sixty-fourth verse there was some poetic discrepancies. The word was bhavānī-bhārtā. Bhavānī means the wife of Bhava. Lord Śiva is called Bhava. Lord Brahmā is called Aja, and Lord Śiva is called Bhava. Bhava means "from whom everything is born." Lord Śiva is the father of this Bhava. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "In the sixty-fourth verse you have stated, bhavānī-bhārtā. Bhavānī means the husband of... Bhavānī means the wife of Bhava, Lord Śiva. So it is known that she has husband. Then why you say bhārtā, again 'husband'?" He was learned scholar. He could understand, "Yes." Dvir-ukti-dośa. This is called dvir-ukti-dośa, repeating twice one thing. Dvir-ukti-dośa. That is dośa. Dośa means fault.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vidya, the goddess of learning, Sarasvatī. In our childhood we used to worship Sarasvatī: "Please, mother, give me pass this examination." That was our prayer. So other students, they laughed very loudly. They thought that "Caitanya has come out very victorious within a second." He said, "No. Stop." Then He stopped all these talkings, and... "So you are so... I have to talk with you. You are very learned." Ordinary formalities. Then he went away. And he was also great worshiper of mother Sarasvatī. Then he began to pray to Sarasvatī, "Mother Sarasvatī, by your grace I have become victorious in so many places. And what is this, that I am defeated by a boy who is a grammar student?" So he began to pray, and mother Sarasvatī informed her (him) that "He is God, my husband. So you speak means I speak. So how can I defeat my husband? That is not..." (knock at door) Come on. Come on. (someone enters) Yes, come. Yes. You can put there. (someone offers obeisances) Put there. All right. Put there. That's all. Very good. So then he further did not attempt to talk with Him. He went away, and the mother Sarasvatī advised him that "You surrender unto Him. That will be your nice role. Yes." So later on, he became a great devotee of Lord Caitanya, Keśava Kāśmīrī.

Allen Ginsberg: Keśav...

Prabhupāda: Keśava Kāśmīrī.

Allen Ginsberg: Keśava Kāśmīrī, "Keśava from Kashmir."

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Haṁsadūta: No?

Guest (1): He was politician. He was a mathematician.

Prabhupāda: He was very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, rigid brāhmaṇa. That's all.

Guest (1): He was insulted once in boyhood by something of Mahātmānanda.

Prabhupāda: Nanda.

Guest (1): Then he took oath that "All right, today I turn my (indistinct) and one day I will dethrone you from here. Then you can call me (indistinct)," and he went away. (tells story)

Haṁsadūta: Great determination.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yamunā: He was a great devotee?

Prabhupāda: No.

Yamunā: So he's not authority.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: No, they automatically come back because he is hankering after varieties. So that variety is not there, so he is attracted again in the material world. Just like so many sannyāsīs. Take Vivekananda. He wanted to lecture on Vedānta, which is liberation. He came again back to the hospitalizing and philanthropic work because he could not find the variety of pleasure in Vedānta. Of course, he was not very much advanced. There are many. There is a... Sannyāsī is here. he's a Kārpātrī. He is very learned and other... He was formerly speaking on Vedānta and other... Now he is in politics and cow protection. You see? There are many.

Revatīnandana: I have a hazy memory that one time I heard that when a soul, when it finally does enter into brahma-jyotir, that he has to remain there for some long duration of time, a daytime of Brahmā or a lifetime of Brahmā. Is that correct? What is that duration?

Prabhupāda: Not that. That is not like that.

Revatīnandana: Not like that. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: But he feels inconvenience without varieties of life. The Bhāgavata says, tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: "Their intelligence is not clean." Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ: (SB 10.2.32) "Although they rise up to the brahma-jyotir," patanty adho tataḥ, "they again come back."

Haṁsadūta: And the nirvāṇa conception of life is just before Brahman?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it should be concluded that the so-called scientists, astronomers, they are all imperfect, and they are passing off the scientists as learned. So you can challenge them, "What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?" Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.

The whole world is full of conditioned living entities. They're conditioned. Conditioned means under the control of the material nature. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi. There are different types of conditioned souls. Some of them are good conditioned soul, some of them are passionate conditioned soul, some of them are rascal conditioned soul. So good conditioned soul means that, er, "(indistinct) that I have become very much learned, I have studied so many books, so now I am perfect." There is little goodness, because he has studied, he, he has labored, but still he's conditioned soul, because he has no perfect vision. Vimukta-māninaḥ. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam they have been described as vimukta-māninaḥ, that "I have become now liberated, māninaḥ." Self-complacent, thinking that "I have become now liberated. Now I become Nārāyaṇa, God." These Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they address among themselves as namaḥ nārāyaṇa. That means each one of them has become as good as Nārāyaṇa, because Nārāyaṇa is mukta. Nārāyaṇa paraḥ. Śaṅkarācārya says paraḥ. Paraḥ means liberated. Paraḥ and aparaḥ. Aparaḥ means conditioned. So nārāyaṇa paraḥ, avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇa is transcendental to this cosmic manifestation. He's above. So the Māyāvādī philosopher, they think that "I have become now a liberated, as good as Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." But Bhāgavata says, "No. You are simply thinking like that. You are rascal." Bhāgavata challenges: "You are thinking that you have become now liberated, but you are a rascal." The Bhāgavata, Vyāsadeva is very learned, but he says "rascal," but in a very sweet language. (laughter). Vimukta māninaḥ. Māninaḥ: "You are contemplating." Why? Tvayy asta, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas (SB 10.2.32).

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So you have to understand by the symptoms. What is that symptom? Because you left this world, "This world is false. Brahman is truth," then why you are coming again this false world to open hospital, school, philosophy, humanitarian, all this nonsense? Why you are accepting? If it is false, and if you are in full knowledge, then why you are coming to the false platform? Therefore you are rascal. You rejected this world as false. Then why you are coming down again to the plat..., false platform. That is rascaldom. That means your conclusion was wrong. Hmm. Your conclusion was wrong. Just like Vivekananda and many others, now present, presently there is one Karpatri. Vivekananda was actually rascal. He, he had no knowledge. But the Karpatri is actually very learned man. He has studied all the Vedas, great Sanskrit scholar, but still, because he did not worship the lotus feet of the Lord, he is also proving rascal. He is now in politics. He has got a political party, Rama-Rajya Party, and nobody cares for him. He is insulted so many place, but still, but he's so learned, if, if anyone, anybody goes and reads scriptures and Vedas, he can give very good reference and very nicely explain, but the conclusion is dull. Conclusion is dull means again he has come to this philanthropy work. So therefore Bhāgavata says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa: "Although they have undergone great austerities, penances," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32), "realized to some extent the Supreme Absolute Truth," but patanty adhaḥ, "falls down."

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: If you practice bhakti-yoga, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23), if one is, one has unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and his spiritual master, yathā-deve... Deve means the Supreme Lord, and guru, and guru also, the spiritual master. A person who has got unflinching faith in these two personalities-guru and Kṛṣṇa—then the facility will be that all the revealed scriptures will be manifest automatically, even though he is not, not very learned. The purport of the whole knowledge will be revealed from within, because Kṛṣṇa is within, and the spiritual master is without, so both of them will help. Our students are going so many places—in the schools, colleges, universities. They're surprised how they're speaking so nicely, because they have got unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. They are not so learned. They have not gone to the college and learned so many things as the materialistic students do, but on this account: bhakti-yogena manasi. Vyāsadeva also did like that. He became so great because he has accepted bhakti-yoga by the order of his spiritual master, Nārada. Before that, he wrote so many books, Purāṇas and others. He was not satisfied. When Nārada said that "You cannot be satisfied by describing so many material things. You try to describe the glories of the Lord..." So after his instruction, bhakti-yogena, by practicing bhakti-yogena, manasī, unto the mind, praṇihite, mind became settled up; intelligence, right intelligence came, and everything became amala. Amala means without any material contamination. Then he saw apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ. He saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead and also māyā. Both things he saw.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: "One who is actually learned, he sees everyone equally, either he is a very learned scholar or he is a dog or he is a caṇḍāla or he is an elephant." So how the learned scholar and dog can be seen on the equal level? Not that the dog and the learned scholar is equal, but seeing them equally means to see the spirit soul within the body. That vision. Outwardly, by the body, one is learned scholar and one is a dog. That is outwardly. But inwardly, everyone is spirit soul, Brahman. That is called brahma-darśana. So if people are taught about this philosophy, then all these distinctions and creation of different kinds of problems—the Chinese or Communists, the Americans or capitalists, and so many differences we have created, and for that purpose there is fight, there is competition, there is enmity, enviousness, so this is due to ignorance. Or, in one word, it is due to lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we have taken this path of our social improvement in the human society. Let us cooperate. So this is nice place. You have decorated nice. Everything is nice so far the little place is concerned. How many rooms you have got?

Bhūrijana: This is it.

Prabhupāda: Only one room.

Bhūrijana: And this little room in the back.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam, favorably. Otherwise, it will go to the category of anyābhilāṣitā, material desire-jñāna, karma, yoga, (indistinct). And bhakti is so pure that it has nothing to do with material activities or speculative, or mystic yoga, it has nothing to do. Just like gopīs. Anyā... They had nothing to do with all this nonsense, karma, jñāna, yoga. They are neither yogīs, nor very learned scholar, Vedāntist, nor very good businessmen, economist, simple boys and girls. But their devotion is exalted. Because they did not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is their love(?). Never mind to know that Kṛṣṇa is God or not, it doesn't matter. Then they don't, they didn't care for God also. Gopīs, when they say Nārāyaṇa, "Oh, He's Nārāyaṇa." (laughter) (indistinct) Nārāyaṇa, they have nothing to do with Him. They are searching after Kṛṣṇa and when Kṛṣṇa presented Himself as Nārāyaṇa, four-handed, they neglected. And before Rādhārāṇī, He could not remain as Nārāyaṇa. Automatically He handed (indistinct). (laughter) Hands are folded. So our idea is Vṛndāvana. So our love for Kṛṣṇa should be so strong that we don't care for anything. But for preaching if somebody challenges, yes, we are prepared to talk. That is authority. That is uttama-adhikārī. His love is Kṛṣṇa, enormous, but not sentiment. If anyone wants to talk with him, "Yes, come on," That is uttama-adhikārī, mahā-bhāgavata. So this is the position. Now something is in your hand—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That was my plan that I shall carry this baggage and give it to the Americans and they will distribute. That was my plan, therefore I came to America. So now you are so many boys, young boys, you have understood. So do it and give me relief. I remain in the background. Let me finish my Bhāgavata Purāṇa and those who are assisting in the writing, I'll be there (indistinct). That this institution, ISKCON will give to the world so many valuable jewels. There is no comparison. That you will have to see, (indistinct). Already they are appreciating on account of (indistinct). The paper, what is that paper...

Devotee: Which one?

Prabhupāda: Sun Times?

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Alike. (laughter) The dress is different, the spirit soul is the same. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. A learned, really learned man, he sees everyone on the same level, because he sees to the spirit and he is (indistinct) that a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a low-born, everyone is on the same category of spirit soul. That is the vision of a learned scholar. He does not make any discrimination that "Here is a dog" or "Here is a very learned scholar." His vision is the dog is also entangled by this body and a learned scholar is also entangled by this body, but both the dog and the learned scholar, both of them are spirit soul. That is actual vision. The same example, that I am talking with you, not with your dress. I am not very much concerned with your white dress or black dress. I am concerned with you as person. Similarly, we are concerned with the soul, not with the outward body. That is our position. Yes?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our fully developed state in the spiritual sky, are we still one ten-thousandth the size of a tip of a hair like we are now in conditioned state?

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Anything which can be engaged in the service of the Lord should not be given up. This is our philosophy. Should not be given up. We do not say, "Oh, money is material. I do not touch. My hand becomes turned up." No. We don't say all these nonsense philosophy. (laughs) We know that money, lakṣmī, is Kṛṣṇa's property, so it should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Why money should not be touched? Money is Kṛṣṇa's. It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Our renouncement means we renounce our personal sense gratification, that's all. That is renouncement. Materialism means personal sense gratification, and spiritual life means no personal sense gratification, all Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That's all. The same teaching by Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna was thinking in terms of personal sense gratification: "I shall not fight. It is not good to kill my kinsmen, my brother." That was personal sense gratification. From ordinary point of view people will say, "How Kṛṣṇa is..., Arjuna is nice, that he's giving up his claim, and nonviolent." But this philosophy Kṛṣṇa immediately kicked out. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam. "Oh, why you are talking nonsense like this?" That was His answer. (laughs) Next He says, aśocyān anvaśocas tvam prajñā-vādāṁś ca (BG 2.11), "You are talking just like a very learned man, but this kind of lamentation is not done by any learned. That means you are fool number one." (laughter) So after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he agreed to fight. "Yes. I shall fight." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now people will say, "Oh, fighting, killing is Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Yes, if Kṛṣṇa wants it. To... Therefore our business is not in the estimation of this material world to become a good man. Our estimation is how Kṛṣṇa will accept me as good man, that's all. We don't care for this world. Just like gopīs, they left their husbands, they left their father, went to Kṛṣṇa. What is this philosophy? They wanted to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not their father, brother. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "This is the highest worship." (Sanskrit) There is no greater, topmost example of worship than the gopīs did. Because their only purpose was to serve Kṛṣṇa, unalloyed, without being disturbed by any other consideration.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: That I have explained. Just like Arjuna, who was a fighter, warrior, means he fought for Kṛṣṇa. For himself, he was hesitating. He put all these questions that "If I kill my brothers, then their wives will be widow, and they will be prostitutes and there will be varṇa-saṅkara, and then there will be no piṇḍa-dāna and then the whole nation will go to hell," in this way, as he could think. But he was not thinking in terms of Kṛṣṇa. He was thinking in terms of his own benefit, "whether I shall go to hell or heaven." That was his contemplation. Therefore he was taught Bhagavad-gītā. And after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he agreed to Kṛṣṇa's proposal. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā: (BG 18.73) "Now my illusion is gone. I have got my real consciousness, so I shall fight." So the fighting was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when he was trying to become nonviolent, very benevolent to the family, he was chastised by Kṛṣṇa. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādām: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man but you are fool." So this is our position. We may talk very learned, scholarly, but if we have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are subjected to the chastisement. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). So this is the position. So nothing is bad if it is engaged for the service of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, however good it may be in the estimation of material conception, it is the cause of bondage, good or bad. It doesn't matter. So you have to learn the art, how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That art you have to learn. Then your life is perfect.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: A child is innocent, and his father is ignorant. His father may be knowing something, and purposely does not take. That is ignorance. Or he thinks that "What is the use of taking it?" That is ignorance. And innocent, he does not know anything. Actually, practically, there is little difference, but if you ask, you can differentiate in this way. Just like in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This mūḍha is ignorant, and he does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone, according to our Vedic culture, for the last five thousand years, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but he'll not do. He will say, "Why Kṛṣṇa will be the Supreme Lord? I am also." This is offense. This is offense. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. This offense is created on account of sinful life. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Innocent has no sinful life. Otherwise there is no difference between ignorant and innocent. Purposefully, when one remains ignorant, foolish, purposefully... He'll not accept. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. According to Vedic culture, Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But there are many purposefully who will not accept Him. What can be done? They will argue. They will not accept the ācāryas. All the ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. They are the leaders of Vedic culture at the pre..., in the present moment. They are accepting. But other, foolish people, they are not accepting. māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā: their knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Although they appear to be very learned, but actually, a sense of knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Real thing they do not understand, nor, or refuse to understand. So they are offenders. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. "All the Māyāvādīs, they are offenders to Kṛṣṇa." Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu (BG 16.19). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Dviṣataḥ krūrān. They're envious, krūra. "I put them into the hellish condition of life." These, these Europeans and American boys, they're innocent. I have told them that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." They have accepted. That's all. Others, they will argue, "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be...?" They're offenders. Yes. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa; still they will argue.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Where is money? Where is money?" That is also inquiry. So athāto brahma jijñāsā means... (Aside) You can come this side. Brahma-jijñāsā means this human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth, brahma-jijñāsā. This is human life. Unless one is jijñāsu, just like Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he inquired... His first inquiry was, "What I am?" His first inquiry was. Ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya? He said, "grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni." He was a brāhmaṇa. So brāhmaṇas are addressed as "paṇḍitjī." He was paṇḍita. He was very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Parsee, Urdu. But he admitted his fault, that "Everyone calls me as paṇḍitjī, but I am such a paṇḍita that I do not know what I am. This is my 'paṇḍitjī.' Therefore I have come to inquire from You what I am." That is brahma-jijñāsā. Nobody knows in this material world what he is. Everyone is thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am woman," "I am man." This is their... is their... They do not know. Brahma-jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā means first to know one's self, self-realization, "what I am." And in the Bhagavad-gītā the first reply is given there. This brahma-jijñāsā. Because Arjuna was puzzled. He was thinking that "My kinsmen, my grandfather, my brothers, they are this skin, this body." So he was thinking, "If I kill my grandfather, my brother on the other side, what is the use of this fight? I do not like." But he was thinking in bodily concept of life. This is the position of everyone. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life. Therefore the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The asmin dehe, in this body, there is the soul. He is the proprietor. So this life should be, education means one should be advanced in education to inquire about himself, that is brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. And as soon as there is question of jijñāsā, then there must be somebody else from whom to inquire. Therefore śāstra says that when you are jijñāsu, when you are inquisitive... Inquisitive of what? Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Śreyas. Here we are also jijñāsu, we are going to the market;

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). The jñānīs, karmīs, yogis, they are trying to come to the Absolute Truth, but they will take many, many births to come to this point to surrender. Therefore intelligence means if one understands that "Ultimately I have to come to Kṛṣṇa for my highest perfection; then why not immediately? Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why not take this process?" This is intelligence. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births when one actually becomes wise, jñānavān, he surrenders, he surrenders." If one remains still unwise, not fully in knowledge, he hesitates, "Oh, why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is as like me; He is also a man. Maybe a powerful man, a very learned man." No. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, in truth... "Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, even if he does not understand fully, if he tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, that is also very good." That is also. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer (SB 1.5.17). Even one tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, he does not finish, Kṛṣṇa says, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt: "Even little beginning of this devotional service can save one person from the greatest danger." Therefore there is great need of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world, to make them intelligent. Is there any question on this point?

Guest (1) (Indian man): Lord Brahmā also prays for to be born into Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes yes. Because he will try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Even Lord Brahmā could not understand Kṛṣṇa. (laughs) No. (Hindi) Therefore, to understand Kṛṣṇa he desired to take birth in Vṛndāvana.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino... How subtle laws are working, what do they know the scientists? Therefore their so-called knowledge is māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ, actual knowledge is taken away by māyā. And they are thinking, "I am very learned man, scholar." But actual knowledge is taken away. māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuri-bhāva. They won't accept God. Therefore they are all fools. In spite of all these degrees, they are all fools. Therefore they cannot explain everything very nicely. "In future we shall see."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that "We are beginning to learn more and more..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means that you are fool. While you are in the process of learning, that means you are fool. Say directly that we are fool. That is gentlemanliness. You do not know; still, you pose, "I am, we are scholar, we are scientist. Give us Nobel Prize." You see. This is going on. We don't want Nobel Prize. We are giving the topmost knowledge. We don't hanker after Nobel Prize. But they give false knowledge and hanker after Nobel Prize. Just see. Their real aim is how to get the Nobel Prize by cheating. That is their real aim. How an educated man, learned man will cheat? So therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "This modern human society, or always, it is a society of the cheaters and the cheated." Somebody is cheating and somebody's cheated, and they have combined together to make a so-called civilization.

Karandhara: Prabhupāda, you know the scientist you quoted in Easy Journey? You quoted an article from the newspaper in Easy Journey about the two scientists who were studying anti-matter?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So in this way he decided, or he made a plan, not to kill. From superficial, material point of view, he was very nice gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa actually chastised, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś... (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but you are fool number one." This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And then at last He said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am telling you," sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e... (BG 18.66). "What I say, you do. That means I am asking you to kill, to do that." So he said, kariṣye vacanam, "Yes." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "I do not like to do it, but Kṛṣṇa wants me to do, all right." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very difficult. (laughing) I do not like to do, but Kṛṣṇa likes to do, I have to do it. This decision is very good. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, a devotee, is prepared to do anything nonsense for Kṛṣṇa, even in the estimation of ordinary person. People ask me that "You are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness and he is, say, encouraging war," because they have got experience of the last two wars in Western country. So when Kṛṣṇa encouraging the war, they do not take it very nicely. They say, "What kind of God He is?" because they have suffered in the war, and then we are presenting a God who is encouraging war. So there was one lawyer, you know, Goldsmith. He helped me, incorporated this...

Devotee: In New York.

Prabhupāda: New York, yes. He was very good friend. So he was asking that "How it is good, Swamiji, that Kṛṣṇa is encouraging war, fight?" Although Arjuna was making own plan not to fight, Kṛṣṇa took the trouble for instructing him Gītā and then inducing to change his plan: "Go on, fight!" (end)

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...sness movement is all-embracing, all problems. People should carefully study and take it. Then they will be happy. Otherwise all plans are nonsense, the scientists, the philosophers, the... All rascals. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. They appear to be very learned, but māyā has killed them already. They have no knowledge. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Just see. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). Life is created by God. They'll not accept. "Life is created from dirt." That's all. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Where is the instance that you create life by chemicals? "That we shall see in the future." Kick him immediately on his face with boot. Rascal. Will you accept any check, "It will be paid in future?" Will you accept? So why shall I accept this rascal's theory? If somebody gives me check, one million dollar, payable three hundred years after, shall I be inclined to accept such check? So why these fools accepting this post-dated check?

Viṣṇujana: Prabhupāda, they say they've already done so much. The scientists will say...

Prabhupāda: What they have done? What they have done? Why people are starving? What you have done?

Viṣṇujana: But they'll say we have created so much machineries and gone to the moon.

Prabhupāda: You cannot eat machine. You produce. You produce rice, wheat in the machine. What you have done? You have simply misled the people that instead of tilling the ground, they have come to machine, and there is no food.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Keeping a guru, and "Guru, come here, come here, guru." (laughter) Not like that. That is useless. And this is the qualification of celā. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. One who is interested with the Absolute Truth. That requires, he requires a guru. And guru means, śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam (SB 11.3.21). This is the qualification. Śābde, he's, in the Vedic knowledge, he's perfect. Śābde pare ca. Niṣṇātam. He has immersed himself in that ocean. And the result is brahmaṇy upaśama..., he has no more material interests, simply Brahman. That's all. How simple it is, the qualification of celā and qualification of guru. As soon as Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his guru, He immediately gave him a slap: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). "You are talking like very learned man. You are fool number one."

Dr. Patel: So you told me the same thing. Very good. I must be proud that I am going to be lion(?). That is what you mean to say.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the guru's... Guru's business is, when he talks much, he says, "All right, it is all right," but when he accepts guru slaps.

Dr. Patel: Choke him up. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. How mildly He says: Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś... (BG 2.11). "You do not know what is what..."

Dr. Patel: "You are a fool."

Prabhupāda: "You are a fool number one." Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. He says, "A paṇḍita does not like this." That means, "You are a mūrkha." Indirectly, He said, "A paṇḍita does not do this. Now you learn." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13). He began to speak Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (chants japa) (break). They'll talk of Kṛṣṇa, so many things but they're not devotees. Just like Kaṁsa. They may talk of Kṛṣṇa or think of Kṛṣṇa, but they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Therefore they are demons. This is the test. They'll read Bhagavad-gītā, but they'll not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. And that is the demonic. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they are demons, therefore their so-called knowledge is useless. Apahṛta-jñāna. And apparently, they seem to be very learned scholar, but there is no knowledge. There is no knowledge. This is the demonic... Just like Rāvaṇa. He was very much advanced student in Vedic literature. But he was a demon. So simply by studying Vedas one does not become out of the jurisdiction of demons. Just like Jarasandha. He was also worshiping Viṣṇu. But he was a demon. He was a demon. His purpose was different. The yajñic brāhmaṇas, they also could not understand Kṛṣṇa. So this is the crucial test. If one does not understand Kṛṣṇa and become submissive to surrender, he remains a demon, however big scholar he may be.

Indian (1): That is a division of śāstra, Patel and Parsees.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't mention anyone. This is the general definition.

Indian (1): They were saying that you are not speaking Vedas.

Prabhupāda: What do they know about Vedas? If they did know, then they should have stuck up in family life, in kūpa-māṇḍukya and gṛhambhara, they have. They do not know what is Vedas. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is knowledge of Veda. In the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is in Cali... His description is there in the last page, his photograph.

Pater Emmanuel: Oh, yes, I see. Vaiṣṇava, Manipur.

Prabhupāda: He (indistinct) his MS from Buffalo University and his Ph.D, chemistry from California University. And he graduated himself from Gauhati University. Very learned scholar.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, yes, I see.

Prabhupāda: You are coming from?

Pater Emmanuel: Near Passau, say, I think five hundred kilometers from here, with train, yes. I am coming yesterday in the evening to Frankfurt. In the morning I came to here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You can stay here. We have got place.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, tomorrow, till tomorrow.

Devotee: He has a room upstairs.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, yes, thank you very much. I am Benedictine monk in a monastery.

Prabhupāda: You are Roman Catholic?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So this verse says that "You are speaking like a learned man, Arjuna," He addressed Arjuna, "but you are not very learned man because you are considering of the body." Just like the proprietor of the car, the driver. While the car is going on nicely or car is stopped, no more working, he is disinterested that he knows very well that "I am not this car." Therefore it is said, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Anyone who is actually learned, he does not consider very seriously about the body, either it is dead or alive." So basically we are, all, every one of us, we are spirit soul. The body is just like a machine. We have got it. But we are taking of the machine very much, not for ourself. Whole world is taking care of the body but not of the driver of the body, the spirit soul. Everyone is thinking, "I am this body, and because this body is born in America, I am American, and because the body is white, therefore I am white, or black." In this way everyone is identifying with the body. Nobody is identifying with the spirit soul. That is the basic disease of the human society.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that he has no objection philosophically to this position, and he understands our example very well.

Prabhupāda: No, this is not... Philosophy, of course... Philosophy is the science of science. This is scientifically true that we are not this body.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their defect. Therefore asses, go-kharaḥ. That is defined. Anyone who takes the body as the self, he is a go-kharaḥ, animal. And that is our protest, that "You are animal; you are passing as very learned scholar, scientist." That we want to protest. We want to expose them, that they are cheating people. They have no perfect knowledge; still, they are passing as scientist and big men and... That is our protest.

Mādhava: Can we say that the living entity is there, and that he is the one that makes the molecules and the atoms come together to form a body just like the scientists give explanation? No? We can't?

Prabhupāda: No. Because the living entity is there for the formation of his body, so many things are going on, action and reaction of the matter. That's all. That is depending on his desires. It is so subtle thing. He is desiring, and action, reaction is going on. And as soon as the living entity is not there, these action and reaction will stop. So they are trying to find out the missing thing. That missing thing is the living entity. That they do not know, foolishly. Just like a motorcar is running very nicely, and as soon as the driver goes away it stops. The machine is there, the everything is there, but this rascal mechanic, he comes, "Something is missing." And why something missing? But he does not know the missing part is the driver. He is finding out in the motorcar what is missing. The motorcar, everything is there. The hand is there, leg is there, heart is there, the intestines are there, everything is there. So they cannot explain. They say, "Now the blood has become white." Then make it red. Where is the difficulty? So they do not know what is missing; neither he'll take, I mean to say, learned instruction. That is their defect. Real thing is the driver is missing, but that they will not accept. They are so foolish, they are thinking that motorcar is running automatically.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our... We know that he is a fool, but we have to present in a different way. We shall say that "There is nobody as learned as you are." In this way just make him puffed up, and then you say humbly, "My only humble request is that whatever you have learned, please forget. Now you try to understand Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's all." This is the different way of calling him, that "Whatever you have learned, this is all rubbish." We simply say, "Kindly forget them. Now you turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." This is the way Prabodānanda Sarasvatī taught us. You flatter him, "Sir, I have got one request." Flatter him like anything, falling down on his leg and becoming humble and... "Sir, I have got one request." "What is that?" "You are very learned scholar. But kindly forget them, and you try to turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He will not be angry. Then, if he turns his attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then naturally he will forget all rubbish things.

Devotee (1): We've been trying more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to make our techniques of distribution more honest and straightforward, not to cheat so much as some of these methods in the past.

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that Kṛṣṇa's service is so sublime that even if we cheat, you are not culprit. But because we have to deal with the worldly man, we have to go according to their rules and regulation on cheating. Otherwise, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he never cheats. He never cheats. Whatever he does... Just like a mother says to his child, "My dear child, if you take this medicine, I will give you this lugloo." The child is diseased. He will not be able to digest lugloo, but the mother sometimes cheats him. And when he takes the medicine the lugloo is not delivered. Similarly, sometimes we have to say so many things very pleasing to him, but our business is that let him take this medicine. That is tactics. But that is not cheating. If the mother helps the child in drinking medicine and then afterwards she does not supply the lugloo, that is not cheating. Some way or other... That is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet: "Somehow or other, let everyone be Kṛṣṇa conscious." There is no question of vidhi-niṣedhā. Sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. The other rules and regulation will act as servant, but the main business is to bring one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the main business. We are not meant for cheating anyone. We have no business. But to lead one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may say something sometimes. So that is not cheating.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Iti matvā: "One who knows this perfectly well that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, he becomes a devotee." Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā. Budhā mean very learned. Bhāva-samanvitāḥ: "Oh, here is the supreme cause, or Kṛṣṇa." The philosophy means to search out the supreme cause. That is philosophy. Find out the ultimate cause. That is darśana. In Sanskrit it is called darśana, find out what is the supreme cause. So here it is explained, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), sarvasya, including whatever you know. Sarvasya means including everything. "So whatever you know, the cause of everything, that cause is also I am." And that is confirmed in the Vedic literature, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

And the Vedānta-sūtra, the Absolute Truth, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "the origin of everything." Now, here it is. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the origin of everything." You are making search, but here is the origin here. Now you study Kṛṣṇa, whether actually He is the origin of everything. At least we know that this universe, the origin is Lord Brahmā. But we know that the Brahmā is also emanation from Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā's knowledge also comes from Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. And Kṛṣṇa says. Arjuna accepts, sarvam idam ṛtaṁ manye: "Yes, I accept." So that should be the process of understanding Kṛṣṇa. If you manufacture your own way, that is different thing. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). All the ācāryas... Take all the ācāryas. At least in our country we are guided by the ācāryas. Take any ācārya. They have accepted. Brahmā has accepted. So in this way you have to understand. We cannot manufacture our own way.

Guest: There is some our ācāryas. How about Christ or Muhammad and Zarathustra, all these people?

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: (laughing lightly) You cannot say that I have introduced it. It is already there. As it is there in India, it is also everywhere. It may be under different names. The four classes are already there, everywhere. The... Even in Muslim, they have also got the (indistinct), what is called, mohallas, priestly class. They have got. We are introducing the systematic caste system, but caste system is already there, everywhere. Maybe under different names. And it is necessary. The caste system is there as a matter of necessity. You cannot abolish it. But it is now existing in a deformed manner. People should be systematic and organized. That we are trying to. Not that a new thing we are trying to introduce. It is already there. Our proposition is that "You priestly class, you must act exactly as a priest-ideal priest. You are a drunkard, you are woman-hunter, you are doing everything nonsense, and at the same time you are passing on as priest—this should be stopped." This should be stopped. The priestly class, or the brāhmaṇas, they should be trained up to become truthful, how to control mind, how to control senses, and tolerant, and very learned, knowing God also—these things are required. They should be the first-class, ideal men. Similarly, the kṣatriyas, they must be fearless; they must be very boldly, face fighting the enemies; they must have the capacity to govern nicely so that people will not have any complaint against the government. In this way they should be trained up. And the mercantile class of man, they should produce enough food grains, not motor tires. That is śūdra's business—artisans—that is śūdra. The vaiśyas' business is first to see that in the country there is enough food for eating—both for the human being and the animals. The human being should not complain that there is no sufficient food grains, therefore they're eating flesh. No. Flesh is not for human being. They should live on food grains. Just like dahl. Dahl is as good as meat. It is from food grain. And there is sufficient varieties of dahl they can eat. They can make so many preparations, palatable preparations.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: And, you do not know, they like to eat white men. (laughter) Yes. They kidnap or capture, some way or other, one white man, and they eat it very nicely.

Australian devotee 6: They say that the grandfather is very learned so they eat his brain so they can get his knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they say like that? Oh, just see. He eats the experience. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Śrutakīrti: You were saying about how, in the car, that one eats the cow, they say, because it is sāttvika.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Śrutakīrti: So the spiritual master, he is even more sāttvika so he should be eaten.

Prabhupāda: So eat the spiritual master.

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are these cannibalistic tribes, Amazons and whatever, are they classed as subhuman?

Prabhupāda: They are uncivilized. They are human being.

Hari-śauri: So do they...

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is going on. When I meet you I say, "Yes sir." You say, "Yes sir." That is all right. That is social etiquette. But real unity is on the platform of spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita, he is sama-darśina. So paṇḍitāḥ means

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

"A very learned brāhmaṇa and a dog and an elephant, a cow, a caṇḍāla—all of them, to a paṇḍita, really learned person, sama-darśinaḥ." You see? So now how a learned scholar brāhmaṇa and a dog can be seen on equal level? But it can be seen. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). It is on the spiritual platform, that every one of us is spirit soul. We are, by different karma, we are covered with different material dress. A dog is also a soul, and a learned brāhmaṇa is also a soul. But he is covered with different body, and he is covered with different body. So one who does not see the body, he can see on the same level. But one who sees the body, he cannot see. This is the basic principle of equality. I am seeing you are Sikh, you are seeing I am Hindu, he is seeing he is Christian, he is Mohammedan, and so on, so on. And nobody is seeing that nobody is brāhmaṇa. Nobody is seeing nobody is Hindu, nobody is Christian—he is pure soul. So that vision, unless one attains, how there can be equality? There is no possibility.

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, that's agreed. But...

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They can do it—that is credit. But what is this credit, that people are dying and you discover atom bomb to accelerate death very quickly? If they are thinking like that, then sanity is coming. At least, they are thinking like that, that "Why death should not be stopped?" That will be credit if they can do so, but at least this question, it comes. Then they become human being, not dogs. And so long this question does not come, they are cats and dogs. This is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the inquiry. Sanātana Gosvāmī when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu he first questioned this, ke āmi, keno more jape tāpa-traya: "I was minister. That's all right. But I do not know why I shall accept death. Therefore I have come to You." This is minister, intelligence, that "People praise me, I am minister, I am very learned scholar, but I do not know why I am under the tribulations of three-fold miseries, and what is my position." Ke āmi, keno more jape tapa-traya: "Who I am? I don't want all these things, why they are troubling me?" Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tai satya kori mani: "These fools and rascals, they call me, I am very learned scholar, and I also accept it, but I do not know why I am suffering." This is Sanātana Gosvāmī's question. So what they are doing? They are making research?

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Who are they? Very important men?

Revatīnandana: Well, it just said... The magazine was not terribly detailed. It just said that many scientists involved in this are claiming that within twenty-thirty years they will reverse the aging processes. I think it is a bogus claim actually. They dream all kinds of things like that.

Satsvarūpa: They say when a person is born, there is a kind of clock inside them that runs so long. If they can change that clock, then they'll make it stretch out.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one lady. She would like to come and see you. She is the mother of one of our devotees. But she is coming wearing tilaka and a bead bag.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (pause) But I am not speaking of my experience. When we speak, we speak from the śāstra. So this woman's dependence is described in Manu-saṁhitā. And there are many instances. Just like Kuntī. Kuntī was not ordinary woman. She was very learned, exalted woman.

Brahmānanda: This is one point, that in our devotional line there are spiritual leaders who have been women such as Kuntī. She gave...

Prabhupāda: But still... Therefore I say. Still, she remained dependent on their son. That is is my proposition. Just like the sons, they lost the game and they were to be banished. Kuntī was not banished. So when the sons went to forest, Kuntī also followed because she thought that "I am widow. I am dependent on my sons. So wherever my sons will remain, I shall remain." She was not... She did not lose the game; neither she was ordered to go to the forest. Similarly, Sītā, Sītā, wife of Lord Rāmacandra. Lord Rāmacandra was requested by His father to go to the forest, not Sītā. Sītā was also a king's daughter. So she could go to her father that "My husband is going to the forest. Let me go to my father's house." She did not go. She preferred that "I shall go with my husband." So when husband said that "You are not banished. You stay at home," she said, "No. I am dependent on You. Wherever You shall go, I must go." This is Vedic culture.

Brahmānanda: Her chastity was her great virtue.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the thing.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. What you have changed? Can you stop the fire burning your hand? Can you change this? Then why you talk foolish? These are foolish propositions. Nature will act. You may be so-called advanced in science. What is, your science will do? Will you not die? Will you not be diseased? Will you not become old? Then where is your advancement? You are strictly under the laws of nature. You cannot violate a single inch even. Daiv hy eṣ guṇamay mama māy duratyayā. One sane man should consider that "Why I am strictly under the laws of nature? I am prime..." This question was put by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I am prime minister. People adore me as paṇḍita, very learned, but why I am put into these tribulations of the laws of nature? Why as prime minister and learned paṇḍita I cannot counteract it?" This is real question. Simply doggish mentality: "Yes, why shall I not do it? Why shall I?"—what will benefit you? That means you are not even sober. You are not human being. Human being should question "Why?" That is human being. Now by nature's law the river is full with water. If the nature does not supply, what you can do, your so-called science? Can you fill up with water? Then what is your science? Bogus. You cannot counteract the laws of nature. Hm? Can you? Brahmānanda can. (laughter) He is strong enough. Kartikeya, you can do it?

Kartikeya (Indian Life Member): No, I can't do it.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kartikeya: We depend upon nature, so we can't counteract.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible. It is all foolishness.

Kartikeya: We can go this small park.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: 'The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān.' (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Second Chapter, eleventh verse.) These three divine aspects can be explained by the example of the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, the sun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who understands the sunshine only is the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is further advanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. Ordinary students who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine, its universal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonal nature may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman feature of the Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can know the sun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramātmā feature of the Absolute Truth. And the student who can enter into the heart of the sun planet is compared to those who realize the personal features of the Supreme Absolute Truth. Therefore the bhaktas, or the transcendentalists who have realized the Bhagavān feature of the Absolute Truth, are the topmost transcendentalists, although all students who are engaged in the study of the Absolute Truth are engaged in the same subject matter. The sunshine, the sun disc and the inner affairs of the sun planet cannot be separated from one another, and yet the students of the three different phases are not in the same category. The Sanskrit word bhagavān is explained by the great authority Parāśara Muni, the father of Vyāsadeva. The Supreme Personality who possesses all riches, all strength, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation is called Bhagavān. There are many persons who are very rich, very powerful, very beautiful, very famous, very learned, and very much detached, but no one can claim that he possesses all riches, all strength, etc., entirely. Only Kṛṣṇa can claim this because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No living entity, including Brahmā, Lord Śiva or Nārāyaṇa, can possess opulences as fully as Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is concluded in the Brahma-saṁhitā by Lord Brahmā himself that Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No one is equal to or above Him. He is the primeval Lord, or Bhagavān, known as Govinda, and He is the supreme cause of all causes.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: English, economics, philosophy or..., mostly Scottish... I was educated in Scottish Churches College. The philosophy professor, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he was very friendly to me, very kind, just like father. (break) ...he became vice chancellor. He was a very learned man, and very nice man, W. S. Urquhart.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they teach in English or Bengali?

Prabhupāda: No, no. English. Medium English.

Harikeśa: He was the one who said that the woman's brain is thirty-six ounces?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (chuckles) Yes. No, not only he, another professor, Dr. Stephen (indistinct), he also said. That's a fact. Artificially they are trying. It has no meaning. But by agitation you can do anything. That is another thing. But that is not the fact. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). These are all Indian quarters? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area? No, I think this is more European. But where we're staying is Indian area. It's all Indian.

Prabhupāda: These European professors, they had to learn Bengali. They knew Bengali. It was compulsory. All European officers who used to come to India for responsible post, it was obligated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they come mostly for missionary work? Was that their purpose?

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Abhimānam

Prabhupāda: Abhimānam. A person without knowledge, when he professes to be very learned and intelligent, he is more in darkness.

Dr. Patel: But really, sir, very learned people are very doubtful about their learning, to tell the truth. I had my professor who was a Nobel prize winner in London, and he used to be very doubtful, everything, what he said. "It may be or may not be. Who knows? God only knows," he used to say. So we cannot say that all are in darkness.

Prabhupāda: So if God knows, take the words of God.

Dr. Patel: That he must be taking I mean, in his own way.

Prabhupāda: In his own way he cannot take. (laughter) That is another di... That is another foolishness. You cannot take... No.

Dr. Patel: There are many ways by which to know God, is it not?

Prabhupāda: You must take God's word as it is. That is jyoti. The same example can be... Just like the sunlight. Sunlight is light. You have to take it as it is. If you want to know wherefrom the light is coming, what is there in the sun, that is beyond your jurisdiction. But light is there. Take it. That's all.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know. First of all admit you are talking nonsense. The chemical you do not know. Still you are talking nonsense. Therefore you are rascal. Why do you talk nonsense if you do not know? What is the answer? If you do not know, why do you talk just like wise man? Then you are a nonsense. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś... (BG 2.11). You are talking like a very learned scientist, but you are a rascal, fool. Challenge them like that.

Tejās: They think that today they do not know...

Prabhupāda: "They think."

Tejās: ...but tomorrow, they think, will know.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascal point. Therefore I say, "Kick them on their face tomorrow." He's offering postdated check. (laughter) Eh? Even if you are coming of a very millionaire's family, but if you give me a check postdated, shall I accept it? A sane man? No. Bring cash; then talk. (laughter) So these rascals, they have no cash. They have got only paper, postdated check. And who will accept it unless one is another fool, rascal, another rascal.

Tejās: They are bluffing.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Bluffing business goes on when there are many rascals. You can bluff the rascals, not the intelligent man. Who is cheated? One who is a rascal, he is cheated. Not the intelligent man is cheated.

Harikeśa: They should have their salaries paid by postdated check.