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Those who are not (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Brahmacārī.

Prabhupāda: Brahmacārī. We have got four divisions. Those who are not married, they are called brahmacārīs. And those who are married, they are called gṛhasthas. And those who are retired, they are called vānaprasthas. And those who are renounced, they have no connection with anything worldly, they are called sannyāsa. Just like I am a sannyāsī. Sannyāsī mean I have got my family, I have got my wife, children, grandchildren in India, but I have no connection with them. I live alone.

Interviewer: Could I ask for a spelling on those?

Prabhupāda: Sannyā... Yes, brahmacārī: b-r-a-h-m-a-c-h-a-r-y, this is brahmacārī. Then gṛhastha: g-r-i-h-a-s-t-h-a, gṛhastha. H-a-s-t-h-a, gṛhastha. G-r-i-h-a-s-t-h-a. Is that clear? Gṛhastha. Then vānaprastha: v-a-n-a-p-r-a-s-t-h-a, vānaprastha. Then sannyāsī: s-n-n-y-a-s-i, sannyāsī. Four divisions. These four divisions, and there are other four orders of social system. That is according to work, division according to work and quality. Just like the brāhmaṇas, b-r-a-h-m-a-i-n-s, brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of the society. The kṣatriyas, k-s-h-a-t-r-y-a-s, kṣatriyas. Kṣatriyas means persons who are interested in politics, in the management of the country, political affairs. They are called kṣatriyas. Similarly, there is the vaiśyas, v-a-i-s-y-a-s. Vaiśyas means the mercantile, productive class. Those who are engaged in producing grains or trade, milk, and in industry. Of course, industry, artisans, they are called, artists, śūdras. Anyway, any person engaged in producing for the needs of the society, they are called vaiśyas. And the worker class is called śūdra. So according to Vedic system, these are eight divisions. Unless the human society is divided into these eight divisions in terms of material and spiritual progress of life, that is not accepted as human society.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: In India, due to her long subjugation by the foreigners, practically the so-called educated persons, they have lost their original culture. Rather, those who are not so-called educated, following the traditional rules and regulations, they are more Kṛṣṇa conscious. And the educated circle, they are thinking that this religious temperament is the cause of India's economic fall-down. But actually, that is not the fact. So not only India, in other countries also they are trying to imitate the economic situation or economic development of other countries, especially of America, but they do not find that in America, although the boys and girls, the younger generation, they are born of rich family, rich nation, they are still confused, and they are also hankering after something better. So the policy followed by India now, that is, to imitate the Western way of life, is not very happy mood. This means they have lost their original culture. And so far Western countries are concerned, I think they have sufficient arrangement for material comforts. Now they can very easily take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they have no disturbance for material hankering. And I think it is the time for them to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make them perfectly well.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: This is the age for injecting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If children are taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness from this age, the face of the world will be different. (break) ...but they are not Hindus. They have got also obstinacy like that. (break) It is very important. "I thought in that way. When my mother died, as the devotees of the Lord think, I also thought in that way. What is that? 'Oh, it is a grace of the Lord. My mother is now dead.' Because she is the, I mean to say, real cause of my nonfreedom. So she is now dead. Then I am free." It is very contradiction from the materialistic point of view. It is said that, bhaktanam śam abhīpsataḥ. "As the devotees think, so I also in that way thought." What is that? Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ. "I thought it a special grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ pratiṣṭhāṁ disam uttaram: "And I at once took leave of my so-called home and went away." So that is the difference between the devotees of the Lord and materialistic persons. When their materialistic relationship, comforts, are taken away, they think "Oh, it is all grace." And the materialistic person, when their materialistic comforts are increased, they think, "It is grace." Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasmin jāgrati saṁ... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like... There is a crude example. I think I have cited this example many times, that a foolish patient thinks that increase of fever is very nice. Fever, so what should be the ideal? Fever should decrease. But those who are less intelligent, they think, "Yes, it must increase." (chuckles) There is a drama in Bengali that in a house a doctor came to diagnose. There were two patients, the housewife and the maidservant. So doctor said, "The maidservant's fever is 105, so there is some anxiety. I give some medicine. And the, that landlady, she has no fever practically, 99, so there is no anxiety." But the landlady became angry, that "This doctor is useless. I am the landlady. I have got 99, and my maidservant 105. And maidservant should have 98. I should have 110!" (laughter) This is the mentality. The modern civilization is trying to increase the degree of fever to 110 degrees. And, you know, as soon as the degree comes to 107 it is death. Do you know that? If the fever increases to hundred and... Therefore as soon as the high fever is there, the doctor try to decrease it by icebags and so many things because to come to the fever degree, 107 or 8, means immediate death. So the modern civilization, they are trying to increase the degree of material fever, and they have come to the point, 107 degree-atomic bomb. Now they are going to die. You see? The American atom bomb or the Russian atom bomb will kill the whole material scientists' advancement. You see? So this is the... So, and devotees, they want to decrease the fever. Decrease the fever. Therefore the highest, ideal life, according to Vedic civilization: brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇava. They decrease their demands of the body. Minimum demand. You see? There is amongst the brāhmaṇa, not now, in the Vedic system, the uñca-vṛtti. It is called uñca-vṛtti. Uñca-vṛtti means they will go the paddy field, and after the cultivator takes all the paddies, some paddies are thrown away. They will collect those paddies only. Just like birds, they collect. They collect those paddies, and that they will eat, not even beg, ask anybody for any morsel of food. So completely... And in the Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that "Oh, this open field is your bed, this is your pillow, this is your pot, and the water in river is sufficient water, the tree is full of fruits, and in the cave, there is sufficient apartment. So why should you go, anyone, to ask for your shelter, for your food?" Kasmād bhajanti kavayor dhana-durmadandhān: "Why should you approach the materialistic, puffed-up, monied men to give you some help?" So Śukadeva Gosvāmī was strictly following this, strictly following, completely independent. That is not possible at the present day. (chuckles) If we imitate, that will be not good. We have to depose(?). Our Gosvāmīs, they have prescribed yukta-vairāgya: accept everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is yukta-vairāgya. It is also vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya and yukta-vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya means simply renunciation without assimilation. Māyāvādī sect, Śaṅkara sect, they have got stringent laws for renunciation. But Vaiṣṇavas, they have no stringent law. They accept everything as Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, actually offering Kṛṣṇa, working for Kṛṣṇa, living for Kṛṣṇa. This is the best use. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "The best use of a bad bargain." Everything in Kṛṣṇa relationship. That is yukta-vairāgya. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Vairagya means detachment. So when we are attached to Kṛṣṇa, automatically we are detached to māyā. Not artificially we want to be detached from māyā. Just like theoretically I know that I am not this body, but the bodily necessities are there because I am encaged in the body. Therefore the bodily necessities-eating, sleeping, mating, defending-should be done in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is all right. Then my consciousness is always in Kṛṣṇa, and I am detached to my bodily demands. And those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, their bodily demands is on the materialistic platform. They are going on, increasing the degree of fever and coming to the 107 degree. You are also going tomorrow?

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Of course, such description is not in the Vedas, but in some sources we can understand that one king wanted to enter the heavenly kingdom, but he was opposed. He was opposed by the demigods. So much information we have got. So those who are not fit to live there or enter there, maybe they will be opposed by the inhabitants there. And that is also natural to think. If somebody all of a sudden comes to your country, oh, there is immediately immigration department. They will see the bona fides, how you can enter? So why don't you take that also? If moon planet is inhabited by more intelligent class of living entities how do we expect that without opposition we will be allowed to enter?

Reporter: So they are said to be a more intelligent entities.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Oh yes. They are living ten thousand years, they are not intelligent? Their standard of living, their mode of civilization, their mode of thinking, everything is higher than this planet.

Reporter: Is this from this book?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: You say they may not be visible to us, though.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: To these material eyes they are not visible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many things are not visible to our eyes.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So we were talking of Ajamila, a brāhmaṇa resident of Kānyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid asit patir..., asit kaścid dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were know as dāsya, dāsī. (aside:) Don't make sound, "cut, cut." Silent. Dāsī... The kṣatriya kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the kṣatriya system. So Ajamila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, dāsī, dāsī-pati. Actually one should be husband of dharma-pati, religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed. Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā... Ajāmila nāmnā. His name was Ajāmila. Why the sound is in...? It is not possible to charge? "Cut, cut cut, cut." Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. Sadācāra means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadācāra. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadācārī, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way..." This is going on nowadays. "Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization." But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be sadācāra. This is the beginning of sadācāra, to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic mantras or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. This is the beginning of sadācāra. So sadācāra means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in sadācāra, regulative principles, for them... Just like animals, they are not expected to follow any... Of course, by nature they follow regulative principles. Still, but human being, having advanced consciousness, so instead of using it properly, they misuse the advanced consciousness and thus they become lower than animals. The animals, for want of advanced consciousness, cannot follow any regulative principles. But by nature they have got some regulative principle. A human being, advanced consciousness, instead of using it for advance in spiritual life they use it for sense gratification and thus they become lower than the animals. So as soon as one becomes irregulated, without any sadācāra, then he doesn't care for any sinful activities for maintaining his body and soul together. He doesn't mind. Their philosophy is, what is called? "Existence is the first law of nature," or something like...

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Oh, you haven't got. You have got? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (birds crying) The sunrise is declared. "Koo koo koo koo koo." Yes. Nature's way. They'll not sleep any more. Therefore anyone who sleeps after sunrise, he is a rascal. He's a rascal. Yes. A child at once, early in the morning, rise. That is nature. But we have created such a life that we have to break all the nature laws and therefore we suffer. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante (BG 7.14). And one who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is free. He is rising early. He has surpassed the māyā. And those who are in māyā they are sleeping. And those who are not in māyā they are rising early in the morning. Is it not? Mām eva ye prapadyante: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he becomes free from the māyā's contamination." Just see. There is maṅgala ārati. In Vṛndāvana just at four o'clock. You have heard?

Yamunā: I was just thinking, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Immediately there is "dung, dung, dung, dung," all temples. Immediately. And people are running. Oh, they will gather all to the Deity, temple. Hundreds of people will go automatically. The same man who was living at home, a very degraded condition, as soon as he goes to Vṛndāvana he becomes habituated to all these things automatically. Automatically. Yes. The society, association, is very important.

Yamunā: Those beautiful birds, the peacock birds also at this time, they are flying in trees and waking up now and make that sound. Oh, Vṛndāvana.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: My mind should be absorbed in God consciousness. That is, that is the effect. He can think of God only, nothing else. That is the effect.

Sister Mary: It's very difficult to think of God.

Prabhupāda: No. It is not difficult. It is difficult for the sinners. Those who are not sinners, it is not difficult. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said:

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
te dvanda-moha-nirmuktā
bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
(BG 7.28)

One can chant the holy name of the Lord if one is free from all sinful activities. A person who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot concentrate. Therefore we ask our students, first discipline is that he must not have illicit sex life, he must not eat meat, he must not take any kind of intoxication, he must not indulge in gambling. Because these are sinful activities. So if one is engaged in these sinful activities, he cannot concentrate. It is impossible. One who is sinner, he cannot concentrate his mind on God. So voluntarily we should give up these sinful activities. Then it will be possible.

Sister Mary: There's a lot more ...sins than just those four things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are the four principles of sinful activities.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No, that is...

Sister Mary: Your mind can be filled with this kind of sin.

Prabhupāda: Irritated... If your mind is in peace... If you are not indulging in intoxication, gambling, illicit sex, then your mind will not be irritated. How a gambler can be in peaceful mind? That is not possible. How a drunkard can be in peaceful mind? Agitation is for them who are simply engaged in sinful life. Those who are not engaged in sinful life, naturally they are peaceful. Their mind is not agitated. Vegetarians are naturally peaceful. Just see between a dog and a cow. (laughter). Dog unnecessarily will talk: "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" (makes barking sound) without any fault. "Why you are here? Why you are here? Why you are here?" That is dog's qualification. A cow, so useful animal, it will never agitate. The dog has no use, but still he's the best friend. (laughter) And cow, actually giving us milk, sending to the slaughterhouse. Just see. This is human civilization. A dog is worshiped, and a cow is slaughtered. Do you think it is civilization? Do you think? Can you support this?

Sister Mary: Well, I had a friend who was a vegetarian...

Prabhupāda: No, apart from this, these two animals. One is dog, and another is cow. So dog is worshiped and cow is sent to the slaughterhouse. What kind of civilization it is? Huh?

Haṁsadūta: Animal.

Prabhupāda: Less than! Cow is supporting the whole society with milk. Every morning, without milk, we cannot live. The child, without milk, cannot live. She should be treated as mother. And they are being sent to the slaughterhouse. And still, they are thinking of becoming free from sinful life. Can anyone kill his own mother? "Oh, mother is old and useless. Let her be killed. Burden." Is that very gratitude for the mother by the son?

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Now I do not know what other people give analogy, but my business is that we take it from Bhagavad-gītā that living entities are part and parcel of God. Therefore, just like this part and parcel of my body is active in relationship with this body but if it is cut off from the body, it is no more active. Similarly, those who are not active in rendering service to God, they're as dead as this finger cut off from the body. So they have to be awakened to that consciousness. Just like a tree, you cut it, it has no consciousness to protest. But, even an ant, a small ant, because it has developed consciousness, you try to kill it, it'll protest. Therefore the more consciousness you develop, you become active. That is nature's law. That is nature's law. Developed consciousness does not mean to become dead.

Dr. Weir: This is what I've said earlier on that the whole of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore if one comes to God consciousness, he becomes more active.

Dr. Weir: The whole evolution, I think I may have said it before you came in, the whole evolution to the human mind, is to become more and more in conscious control.

Prabhupāda: So mind, mind, activities of mind, activities of intelligence and activities of spirit, the spiritual activities more greater than the mind's mental activities.

Śyāmasundara: The other day we were discussing Socrates. And Socrates' method was to bring the self under control by inspecting oneself, "Know thyself," and thereby be able, lead a moral life with self-respect and self-control. But Prabhupāda was saying that this is not an ordinary thing. Not many men can achieve this rational control. So by simply cultivating spirit, nourishing spiritual life, any man can control his senses.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: What is that?

Prabhupāda: Suppose we have this nice foodstuff this mother has brought. So those who are not following austerities, they cannot expect. But because we are following austerity, Kṛṣṇa sends us nice thing. So we are not loser. When you become Kṛṣṇized, then you'll get more comfort than at the present moment. That's a fact. I am living alone for the last twenty years, but I have no difficulty. When, before taking sannyāsa, I was living in Delhi, these boys were taking care of me. Yes. So I had no difficulty, although I was living alone.

Devotee: If you don't accept a spiritual discipline, then nature forces so many...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te
(BG 7.14)

Māyā is imposing so many difficulties, but as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, no more imposition.

Śyāmasundara: We are so foolish that we are always thinking, "In the future I'll be happy."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is māyā, illusion. That is an ass. You sit down on the back of the ass and just take a morsel of grass. He'll go. The ass is thinking, "Let me go forward little, and I shall get the ass, er, grass." But it is... One feet distant it always remains. That is ass-ism. (laughter) That is not... Everyone is thinking, "Let me go a little forward, and I'll get it. (break) ...get it, be very happy." (break)

Bob: I thank you so much for...

Prabhupāda: Hmm? (break) Don't talk l-e-a-v-e. But talk l-i-v-e.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I say those who are not perfect devotee, they may discriminate. But a perfect devotee does not discriminate. So why should you imitate a perfect devotee? So long you have discrimination, you are not a perfect devotee. So artificially why should you imitate a perfect devotee and eat everything?

Bob: Oh-h.

Prabhupāda: The point is, a perfect devotee does not make any discrimination. Whatever is offered to Kṛṣṇa, it is nectar. That's all. Just like exactly Kṛṣṇa accepts anything from a devotee. "Whatever is offered to Me by My devotee," He accepts. The same thing for a devotee. (break) ...point?

Bob: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The perfect devotee does not make any discrimination. But if I am not a perfect devotee, I have got discrimination, why shall I imitate a perfect devotee? That will not be possible to assimilate or digest. Because I am not a perfect devotee. These things are... A devotee should not be a foolish man. It is said that kṛṣṇa yei bhaje se baḍa catura. So a devotee knows his position and he's intelligent enough to deal with others accordingly. (break) ...it is posted? The... Specifically, it is prescribed that one should perform yajña. Yajña means to act for satisfaction of Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said... So shall I stop this fan? I think you can stop. You got? Otherwise much mosquitoes may disturb.

Bob: I have a sweater here if you like.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Those days or in these days, the same principles are there. Kṣatriyas should fight for Kṛṣṇa. That is his perfection of life.

Guest (2): Okay. Then the question is whom shall we fight now? Okay, supposing we are all...

Prabhupāda: Those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. Yes.

Guest (2): Fight in a real..., sword, fight with swords?

Prabhupāda: The demons. Demons. Demons. Just like Lord Rāmacandra fought with the demons, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa conscious person will fight with the demons. That is already there. Demons and demigod always fight. Devāsura-yuddha, you know? That is history. We don't say that fighting should be stopped. We don't say that. We don't say that becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, nonviolence. That is bogus. In Delhi when there was not..., declaration of war between Pakistan and India, press representative came: "Swamiji, what is your opinion about this fight?" I said, "You must fight." And it was published in the paper. It gave some agitation. They were glad. I said, "You must fight." And that was published in big letters in... So we are not that kind of sādhu and Vaiṣṇava, that we don't take care of practical things. When there is need of fight, we shall fight.

Guest (2): Yes but if that is the case, you see, then the Muslim Mullah, or whatever you may call, says, "Fight all non-Muslims."

Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim... It is not the question of Muslims and Hindus. When there is right cause for fighting...

Guest (2): But what I mean is a Muslim Mullah can say all non...

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like you control your beloved. Just like you have got a beloved child. So you control him, for his benefit. If he's going to touch fire, you immediately say to him, "No, no, my dear child, don't touch it." So a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, devotee, he is never misled, because Kṛṣṇa is always guiding him, whereas those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they're in charge of māyā, and māyā will do the needful, as you have seen(?).

Bob Cohen: Is is preset when we're born, the time that we'll die?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bob Cohen: Is the time that I'm going to die, and everybody going to die, is this preset before they're born? Do I have, when I'm born, do I have a certain given lifespan?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And he cannot change that?

Prabhupāda: No. He cannot change, but Kṛṣṇa can change.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: If he commits suicide, if somebody commits suicide, that is also preset?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee (4): Eat? No, shouldn't send.

Prabhupāda: He's not a devotee. He'll "Oh, what is this?" Throw away.

Devotee (4): Hm.

Prabhupāda: Just like the tulasī plant is here, somebody will think that it is decoration. We put it here, devotion, but those who are not interested to speak them about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we offense. One of the ten offenses.

Devotee (4): Yeah. I was wondering about that. I didn't know whether to do it or not.

Prabhupāda: They should be asked ordinary question: What is the life? What is the aim of life?

Devotee (4): Hm.

Prabhupāda: What is consciousness? Philosophy, which is understandable by everyone (indistinct).

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Would you like something Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I want to (indistinct) my head.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where is Śyāmasundara.

Devotee (4): He's in his office I think. He was there just a minute ago. I'll just write him the chant or something.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: "Anyone who explains this devotional service, as explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, is guaranteed to come back to Me." That means the preacher of this Bhagavad-gītā is guaranteed to go back to home, back to Godhead. What is the purport?

Devotee: Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gītā be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will neither understand Kṛṣṇa nor Bhagavad-gītā. Those who do not accept Kṛṣṇa as He is and Bhagavad-gītā as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gītā whimsically and become offenders. Bhagavad-gītā should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for the devotees only and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Devotee: Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ, bhavitā na ca me tasmād anyaḥ priyataro bhuvi (BG 18.69). "There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he. Nor will there ever be one more dear."

Prabhupāda: Those who are preachers.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: These are the (indistinct). (Hindi) If you want to be very intimately related... You're already related, but intimately... then this is the process. (Hindi) This is the real (Hindi) This is the real (Hindi) Your brother-in-law did not come? Eh? (Hindi conversation for some minutes) (end)

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no, why do you bring? This is another foolishness. Why do you bring India? What you have done first of all, sir?

Umāpati: Well, I am not doing this.

Prabhupāda: No no, you are your men. Those who are not Indian.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, perhaps it's because spiritual culture originates, spiritual culture is, permeates their society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is. When spiritual consciousness is presented in truth, then you become conquered. You have been already. The Christian people are astonished, how Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement so big shape within so few years. They are afraid now. Yes. And why they shall not be? Here is science. And that is foolishness only.

Umāpati: That's their new religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "God has only one son." Why? God one son? I asked the priest, that "God is limited or unlimited?" "Oh, unlimited." "Then why should you limit it by one son?" He could not answer. "Ordinary men have more than one son, and God has got only one son." Why? He could not answer. There is no philosophy. How people will...? This system, religion, was taught thousands of years, some shepherds, some fourth-class men. And now people are so much advanced in science, why they will accept it? Jesus Christ is preaching first thing, "Thou shalt not kill." That means he was preaching among the killers. So what kind of men they are? Tenth class of men. And how this tenth class man religion will be acceptable by the first class men? Now people are becoming first-class men. These things are go on, dogmas and nonsense philosophy. That will not stand. Automatically Christian religion is dead now. Nobody is going. There is no philosophy. There is no science. How it will be accepted. And they are violating, simply violating. Whatever it may be. Christ says "Thou shalt not kill." They are simply killing. How it will go on? How long you can cheat people? What is the explanation there? The first order is "Thou shalt not kill." Why they are killing? What is the answer?

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: No, you spoke just before... When we arrived, you were speaking. You had addressed one question...

Lord Brockway: I was speaking; then you arrived. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: And at the end of the discussion, they take a vote: those who are content and those who are not content.

Lord Brockway: That's right. But I often say that when I do not know, what we are discussing, the answers, then I vote with my party. When I do know, then I often vote against my party. Do you understand what I said?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Maybe you could tell him about that Cāṇakya Paṇḍita.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. I think he'll not like that.

Śyāmasundara: There was one famous politician from India five hundred years ago, or...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. About three thousand years ago.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, three thousand years ago.

Lord Brockway: Three thousand years ago!

Śyāmasundara: He's written a book of...

Prabhupāda: During the time of Candragupta. Before Mohammedan or British rule. Long ago.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yeah, that's all right, that's all right.

Reporter: (laughs) Yes. And especially today in the society we are all living in, nuclear age where all the power of destruction in the hands of those who are not devotees of Kṛṣṇa is...

Prabhupāda: That is hiṁsā.

Reporter: That is hiṁsā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: Yeah. Therefore we are trying to make how you can, I mean...

Prabhupāda: That you have understood. That is my point.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That so-called hiṁsā, when it is directed by Kṛṣṇa, is not hiṁsā.

Reporter: Yeah, exactly. I agree. That's, that's...

Prabhupāda: The same example as I gave, gave you. That when the king condemns a murderer to death, it is not hiṁsā. It is doing good to him.

Reporter: Yeah. But only if the king is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Pradyumna: "Andhra. A province in Southern India mentioned in the Bhīṣma-parva of Mahābhārata. It is still extant under the same name. Pulinda. It is mentioned in Mahābhārata, Ādi 174.38, that is the inhabitants of the province of the name, Pulinda. This country was conquered by Bhīmasena and Sahadeva. The Greeks are known as Pulindas, and it is mentioned in the Vana-parva of the Mahābhārata that the non-Vedic race of this part of the world would rule over the world. This Pulinda province was also one of the provinces of Bhārata, and the inhabitants were classified amongst the kṣatriya kings. But later on, due to their giving up the brahminical culture, they were mentioned as mlecchas, just as those who are not followers of the Islamic culture are called kafirs, and those who are not followers of the Christian culture are called heathens. Ābhīra. This name also appears in Mahābhārata, both in the Sabhā-parva and the Bhīṣma-parva. It is mentioned that this province was situated on the River Sarasvatī in Sind. The modern Sind province formerly extended on the other side of the Arabian Sea. All the inhabitants of that province were known as the Ābhīras. They were under the domination of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and, according to the statements of Mārkaṇḍeya, the mlecchas of this part of the world would also rule over Bhārata. Later on, this proved to be true, as it was proved in the case of the Pulindas. On behalf of the Pulindas, Alexander the Great conquered India, and on behalf of the Ābhīras, Muhammad Ghori conquered India. These Ābhīras were also formerly kṣatriyas within the brahminical culture, but they gave up the connection. But the kṣatriyas who were afraid of Paraśurāma and had hidden themselves in the Caucasian hilly regions later on became known as the Ābhīras, and the place they inhabited was known as Ābhīradeśa. Śumbha, or the..." (break)

Prabhupāda: One Yavana fought with him, Kālayavana.

Professor: Because usually the Yavanas is considered as being Greeks.

Prabhupāda: Greeks.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: No, in Bhagavad-gītā it is said: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). And Bhāgavata says,

yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ
puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam
yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta
tat tenaiva vinirdiśet
(SB 7.11.35)

These are clear indications that brāhmaṇa is not from particular family. And Kṛṣṇa says, another place,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatiṁ
(BG 9.32)

Everyone, Kṛṣṇa is open for everyone. Kṛṣṇa does not say that only... He says that kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyāḥ. Everyone is accepted. Why not the brāhmaṇas? But te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Those who are not even born in brāhmaṇa family... Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, kibā vipra kiba śūdra...

Ambassador: Oh. Kibā vipra kiba śūdra...

Prabhupāda: Kibā vipra kibā nyāsī śūdra kene naya, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, tattva-vettā, sei guru haya. He becomes spiritual master. It doesn't matter what he is. Śūdra, or vipra, it doesn't matter. The Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a śūdra. According to social position, he was a śūdra. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu took lessons from him.

Ambassador: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the Eighth Chapter of the Madhya Khaṇḍa.

Ambassador: So I'll remember it, sir.

Prabhupāda: Thank you, sir.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Pradyumna:

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha
daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ
bhajanty ananya-manaso
jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam
(BG 9.13)

"O son of Pṛthā, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhajanti. Bhajanti means "engaged in devotional service." Bhaja sevāyām. Bhaj-dhātu, this verb, is meant for rendering service. Bhaj-dhātu, kti, bhakti. So bhakta. Bhakti, bhakta and Bhagavān. So these are the mahātmās. But these mahātmās, these bhakta-mahātmās... Actually, mahātmā is bhakta-mahātmā. But there are others, mahātmās; they are also called mahātmās, but they are not mentioned in the Bhāgavata. They have been mentioned anye. Anye means others. Is that verse there? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha (BG 9.13)? No. Anye? Anye means others. The impersonalists, they are also sometimes called mahātmā. But the mahātmā who is kṛṣṇa-bhakta, that is very rare. That is described in the Bhāgavata, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. There are mahātmās, but the mahātmā who is the devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is very rare. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Jñānīs they are also mahātmās, speculating what is the Absolute Truth. They are also called mahātmā. But this mahātmā, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ, without any deviation, this mahātmā is very rare. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This prapadya... (Aside) Oh, why you are? You can keep it closed. Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Duty, there are so many duties. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says,

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
(BG 2.41)

"Those who are actually perfect, their buddhi is one. And those who are not perfect, their buddhi is distributed in so many ways." Just like you said, duties, so many, so many, this, that, this, that. But just like there are many branches and twigs and leaves and flowers in a tree, but if you pour water in the root, then it approaches everywhere.

Guest (3): Yes. Therefore the duty's also in the strongroom.

Prabhupāda: Just try to understand that you must know how to discharge your duty. Because you do not know what is duty, therefore you are placing so many other duties, "Nationality, this is, this is..." kṛṣṇa-bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become devotee... Just like your son. Is he not maintaining his family, is he not respecting his father, mother, he is not doing his duty in the service, he is doing his spiritual master? But the main principle is that he is devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So if you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you can discharge your duties properly; otherwise you cannot. It is not possible. If you want to pour water, leaf after leaf, it will be useless waste of time. But if you pour water in the center, on the root, it will go everywhere. Because he is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he knows how to discharge his duty towards his parents, how to discharge his duty to his wife, how to discharge his duties towards his spiritual master. He knows everything. But one who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he does not know. He is simply confused. Sometimes jumping here, something jumping there, something jumping there. He does not know how to pour water.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is this school for women also, or just for men?

Prabhupāda: For men. Women should automatically learn how to cook, how to cleanse home.

Satsvarūpa: So they don't attend varṇāśrama college.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Varṇāśrama college especially meant for the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Those who are not fit for education, they are śūdras. That's all. Or those who are reluctant to take education-śūdra means. That's all. They should assist the higher class.

Hṛdayānanda: Would the brāhmaṇas learn Sanskrit?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Not necessarily.

Hṛdayānanda: Not necessarily. Just more philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Just like I am translating all the books, similarly, any book of knowledge can be translated into different languages. Not that one has to learn Sanskrit. Why?

Hṛdayānanda: Not necessary. So in this varṇāśrama college there would be two divisions, varṇa and āśr... Learning a materia...

Prabhupāda: First of all varṇa. And āśrama, then, when the varṇa is perfectly in order, then āśrama. Āśrama is specially meant for spiritual advancement, and varṇa is general division. It must be there in the human society, or they're on the animals. If varṇa is not there, then this is a society of animal. And when the varṇa is working perfectly, then we give them āśrama. Varṇāśrama. That is later on.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They should be engaged.

Hṛdayānanda: Should they be trained in a particular...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are not able to preach or to do other things, they must go to the plough department, agriculture.

Hṛdayānanda: Those who cannot preach.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are less educated, not very much expert in preaching, they must be acting as kṣatriya or vaiśya, or as śūdra.

Hṛdayānanda: And sometimes...

Prabhupāda: Not he's śūdra. Always remember that. But he has to act to fulfill the, fill up the gap. Proxy.

Hṛdayānanda: So we should encourage people, young people, young students to come to our college.

Prabhupāda: They'll automatically come if you are ideal. Because they are being forced to poverty. So when there is a question of poverty, they'll come.

Hṛdayānanda: Room and board and training.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This poverty. Why there is poverty? Because they are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life. So-called education. Sitting idle in the table and chair, and talking all gossips, nonsense, and sleeping. They have been trained up in this way, śūdra.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is feeding everyone. He is feeding His devotee, as well as nondevotees. The nondevotees are also provided by God. The nondevotees, they are not independent. They are also dependent. But they do not acknowledge.

Guest (1): They don't understand.

Prabhupāda: Just like the prisoners. They are also maintained by government. And those who are not prisoners, they are also maintained by government. The prisoners are outlaw. They do not recognize the government. That is prisoner, criminals. But both of them are provided by the government. And so far individuality is concerned, that is mentioned in the Second Chapter. Kṛṣṇa said that "You, Me, and all these soldiers and kings, they were before existing like this, they're existing now like this, and they'll continue to exist." So individuality's always. Kṛṣṇa never said that "After this, we shall become a homogeneous mass." Never says. Individual.

Guest (1): Just as the bees gather honey from different trees...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they keep their individuality.

Guest (1): ...and when the whole mass comes from, each small particle of honey does not know that he's from a particular tree, like that, he becomes... After the whole thing he gets, what do you call? The deluge.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means that his followers are not well-conversant.

Indian man (3): Those who are not following the (indistinct).

Indian man (4): But then he was actually living. What type of...

Devotee: In England also they are chanting "Swami Narayan," not about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Indian man (3): No, they are also kṛṣṇa-bhaktas.

Devotee: How they are they chanting Swami Narayan's?

Indian man (3): They actually work for the Kṛṣṇa only, and they...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa recommends śāstra, harer nāma, harer nāma, harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). So why they should chant "Swami Narayan"?

Indian man (4): No, listen...

Devotee: He says to chant Kṛṣṇa. But they are chanting Swami Narayan.

Prabhupāda: You know, there was a big doctor in Calcutta, (indistinct) Sen. You have heard his name? He will die of thirstiness, still would not drink outside water. Would come home, offer to the Deity, and then drink. I know that (indistinct) Sen.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Kṛṣṇa, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question rises. How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender unto the lotus... (break) ...Manu, Vyāsa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlāda, Bali, and later on, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Śrī Caitanya and many others who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, and scientists etc. surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God. They simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material..."

Prabhupāda: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: So she said that in..., it is also explained that those who are not intelligent enough to study, or who are out of caste, so they cannot, they don't have the right to study, then it is said that they can attain God directly by surrendering unto God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. It does not require education, knowledge or anything. If he agrees to surrender to the lotus feet of God, then his life is perfect. That is stated in the Vedic literature, naradita yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?). "If one has surrendered himself to the lotus feet of God and worshiped Him, there is no more need of austerity and penances." And naradita yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?). "If one has not learned how to surrender to God and worship Him, then all his austerities, knowledge, are useless." Antar-bahiḥ yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?), "If one can see God within and outside, then where is the necessity of austerity?" And naradita..., nan tad yadi bahi hari sthapasata tat (?), "If one has not learned to see God within and without, then where is the value of his austerity and penances?" Therefore God realization is the only business of the human being. (French)

Jyotirmayī: So they agree totally with what you said. (French)

Yogeśvara: (Translating) Well, first you said that, first we must learn about God and then we will know how to pray to God, but now you say that if one surrenders to God, one has no need to learn about Him first.

Prabhupāda: But unless one... We say, "Unless you have learned what is God." That means you have to learn God. Then religion... Religion means... What does he say?

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That's it. As soon as the discipline broken, then everything is lost. Now you can dance like a dog. That will not affect. Nobody can do that unless there is spiritual strength. Now, last night Madhudviṣa Mahārāja was singing, and so many men became enthused to dance. So unless there is spiritual strength, it cannot be done. Others cannot ask and dance. No, that is not possible. That is not possible. Unless there is spiritual strength, you cannot enthuse others. So we should have to acquire spiritual strength by following the regulative principle. Sanātana Gosvāmī has therefore forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇam pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam śravanām kartavyam: "Those who are not following Vaiṣṇava principles, one should not hear from him." Why? It is Kṛṣṇa-kathā, Kṛṣṇa's. Now sarpocchiṣṭa-payo yathā: "Milk is very good, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent, it is no more good. It is harmful." So one must be Vaiṣṇava. Unless one is Vaiṣṇava, there is injunction, "Don't hear from him. It will be poisonous." So one who is not following Vaiṣṇava principle, he cannot speak about Vaiṣṇava principle. It is harmful. That is forbidden by ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī. If somebody says, "What is the harm? He is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa..." He cannot chant. That is a show-bottle chant. That is not effective. But even taking that "Anyone who is chanting, let me hear," no, Sanātana Gosvāmī says, "No, don't hear." It will be harmful more than... In other words, if you are not following the Vaiṣṇava principle, you don't chant. It will not be effective. Did you not see the difference last night? There were many others. They could not join in the dancing. So far gathering men, if you do not gather intelligent men, then what is the use of gathering men? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: "If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars?" If one is perfect Vaiṣṇava, that is sufficient. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is... There are so many... Such a big instruction book. It is not that, whimsical. But still, we recommend that "Go on chanting." This will help you anywhere. That is also good. It is exactly like that: if you ignite wood for fire, if the wood is dry, the fire takes place immediately, and if it is moist, then it takes time. Only smoke will come.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: You want to be independent?

Haṁsadūta: He says that "I guess we are not independent of our death."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Very... Thank you. (laughter) That is intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not accepting God in lifetime, they will meet God, death. Death is another form of God. That they cannot deny. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He simply defied God, and Nṛsiṁha-deva came, finished everything within a second.

Reporter: Is this something where we can sort of experience death while we are still alive?

Prabhupāda: Alive, we have been given chance to understand God. But if you don't understand, then next life you become a dog.

Reporter: A dog?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Reporter: Why a dog?

Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) Suppose if God says that "You become a dog," can you check it?

Reporter: Is there any way I can prepare...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can if you surrender.

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The whole material world is polluted. Who will live here? A little, say, twenty years before, dying. After all, you have to die, twenty years after or twenty years before. So it is already polluted. That is humbugism. They will die at the end, but still they are trying to live. (kīrtana in background growing progressively louder as Prabhupāda approaches temple)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like they're creating their own...

Prabhupāda: This is the difference between man of knowledge and without knowledge. A man of knowledge will think, "After all, I have to die. So what is the difficulty, dying a few days more or before?" That is knowledge. And those who are not in knowledge, they are afraid of death. Best business is before the death comes let us finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly. That is wanted. Death will come. You cannot avoid it.

Rāmeṣvara: They say that this radioactive fallout will pollute the air so that no crops can be grown.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You shall die without food. Be(cause) after all, the death. In Bengal, it is called: more bhera ghalne (?): "The most misfortunate thing is death." That will come. Therefore the best intelligence is how to avoid death.

Rūpānuga: Become immortal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real intelligence, not to be bothered by these trifle temporary things that "I am dying twenty years before. If the situation was better, I would have lived more twenty years." What is this mentality?

Devotee: Back to Godhead.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, because you have got this body. And after giving up this body, completely, blissful life. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You are not going to get another body of suffering, that is your advantage. And these rascals, they are going to continue one body after another simply suffering. And for the devotees, although they do not suffer, it is just like, the fan is moving, you make the switch off. It is actually not moving, it is by the last force it is moving, but the switch is off. And it will stop, suffering. But you have no such chance, you will simply go on suffering, moving, moving, moving, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You shall have to accept one body, suffer, and again give up this body. Another body suffer, because so long as you accept material body, this body or that body, you will have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will change bodies one after another, and continue to suffer threefold miseries. And devotees, actually they are not suffering, but even if you say they are suffering, so after giving up this body, they are no more accepting material body. They will remain in spiritual body.

Satsvarūpa: A materialist would say that is our faith.

Prabhupāda: It may be your faith also that you do not believe it. Your faith, wrong faith. And if we are accepting this faith, so if there is chance, so we are getting promotion. But you have no faith, you will continue to suffer. We are at least taking the chance, but you are so foolish, you are not taking the chances. So your suffering will continue.

Jayapatāka: In India they say, well, we will take the chance when Kṛṣṇa wishes. Whenever He wishes; His will is everything, that whenever He makes me Kṛṣṇa conscious, then...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). He wishes, why you don't take up His wish?

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In the civilized human society there is some system of religion. So that system of religion means try to understand God. Religion means the law given by God. So civilized human beings, they are trying to understand God and His laws. That is called religion. Now the difference between dog and me is that I can try to understand what is God, what is my position; the dog cannot understand. Dog means the animals. They cannot understand. So that is the difference between a human being and a dog. If we give up religion or the method to understand God and our relationship with Him, then we will remain dog. Then we remain dog. We are not human being. So at the present moment the so-called human society, civilized human society, is giving up the conception of God, understanding God, especially the Communist party. They are openly declaring that "We don't believe in God." But those who are not Communists, they, lip sympathy, they say that "Yes, we believe in God," but actually they do not believe.

So practically the entire human society is now becoming godless. That is very dangerous position. And we have already come to that dangerous position. There are so many problems, and recently we have heard that New York City, the most important city in the world, they are in a problem, that they cannot keep the city very nicely maintained and clean, and they asked for help, some millions of dollars, and the federal government has refused. In this way the godless society will have to meet so many problems of life, and if they want solution of all these problems, they must take to God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that is our sum and substance of the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So we are trying to... It is very simple method. Anyone can accept it by chanting and dancing and eating. And if one does not like this method—he wants to understand the philosophy—we have got fifty books of four hundred pages, you can see all these books.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha:

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha
daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ
bhajanty ananya-manaso
jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam
(BG 9.13)

"Translation. O son of Pṛthā, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible."

Prabhupāda: That—because you are student of history-Mahatma Gandhi's photograph with Gītā. Did he speak anything about Gītā or Kṛṣṇa in the history of his life? Then how he is mahātmā?

Dr. Copeland: People called him that.

Prabhupāda: People call, that is another thing. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that vox populi. The people may be asses; still, their votes are accepted. The people are trained up as the fourth-class, fifth-class men, and their votes are appre... This is the defect of the modern... They are not trained up as first-class men, and still, their votes are accepted. Therefore, even a very advanced country, America, there was mistake, Nixon. They elected him president. Then they dragged him down. That is the mistake. Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the explanation of the śāstra. Those who are devotees... You can see the devotees, they are gods, demigods. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daivaḥ. Viṣṇu-bhakta, those who are devotees of Viṣṇu, Vaiṣṇava, they are demigods. So why do you say we do not see the demigods?

Madhudviṣa: It also says the demons.

Prabhupāda: Demons, those who are not devotees. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are opposing these Vaiṣṇavas, they are asuras.

Madhudviṣa: But how is it that a demon is worshiping the Lord? It says in the Bhāgavatam, he just read, that the demons are also worshiping the Lord in His personal abode.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When the demon is promoted to the Vaikuṇṭha, they also become. Just like you are all now Vaiṣṇava. (laughter) Why don't you compare with yourself? The others are seeing, "What these mlecchas, yavanas, how they can become Vaiṣṇava?" They are seeing like that. Therefore they object. The Vṛndāvana, "How these Europeans can worship Deity?" They are protesting.

Devotee: We can show them this verse.

Prabhupāda: Well, there are many verses. When one is qualified, he is no longer demon. (break) ...big, big sannyāsīs. So I was a gṛhastha, they are now saying, "How this gṛhastha is doing? He was a gṛhastha. He never lived with us." They are saying in that way. (break) Tree has spread the roots solid standing. Just see how carefully.

Conversation in car -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So we have to take little patience. That is preaching work. Don't be impatient. Let us do our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Even the result is not very appreciable, still we have to do it. This is preaching. Just like Nityānanda Prabhu. He was hurt by Jagāi-Mādhāi. Still, He determined, "No, these two boys must be delivered." This is the example. "Never mind, they have injured Me; still, I shall deliver them." And He did it. They became Vaiṣṇava. So our preaching determination should be like that, not that we are failure in some cases, and therefore give it up. No. This is our business. We must go on doing this. Failure or success, it doesn't matter. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to preach. He never said, "If you are failure, don't preach." Never said that. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Whomever you meet, you just give him the instruction of Kṛṣṇa." He never says that "If somebody does not hear you, don't do it." No. Kṛṣṇa said that "Don't talk with the fools and rascals and those who are not undergone some penances."

Kṛṣṇa said. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind. He said, "To everyone say."

Śrutakīrti: So we are following Lord Caitanya's...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I came to western country with no hope. I knew that my Godbrother, Bon Mahārāja, came, he failed. Then Gosvāmī Mahārāja was there, so many swamis and yogis came here, nobody could turn them. So I came here just with a purpose, "Let me try." But I was not hopeful at all. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is now successful.

Devotee (1): A great success.

Prabhupāda: And therefore let us try. And success, no success, depend on Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, you can go directly also, if you want to finish your business. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). This is a consideration, who, one who fails in executing. But if you become successful, then you go directly where Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is there in some universe. So those who are completely liberated, they go to that universe. Just like when Kṛṣṇa comes here, in each and every universe there is a Vṛndāvana. So in that Vṛndāvana one takes birth. Then goes to original Vṛndāvana. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: Those who are not able to maintain the Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle, then they may have to go to India next lifetime.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīmatam, śrīmatāṁ śucīnāṁ.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So śrīmatāṁ, you can get here. Śrīmatam means rich, rich family. Here you get many families, Ford family... But śrīmatāṁ and śucīnāṁ. So if you are creating so many brāhmaṇas, so if this cult is permanent, then there will be many brāhmaṇa family here also. (break)

Śrutakīrti: ...someone had asked me yesterday. You say that the moon is self-luminous. So then... But during the course of the month there are times when only part of the moon is showing. The moon is not always full.

Prabhupāda: Maybe some planet between. Maybe due to sun. So moon is above the sun. Above the sun.

Śrutakīrti: Yes. (break)

Bali-mardana: Yeah, albatross, sea birds.

Siddha-svarūpa: They call them rain birds.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, accepting that there is a eternal soul, how is the soul distinguished, then, from the body or from the machine since things like the senses, the mind, the intelligence, desire and hate, which people accept as the symptoms of the soul...

Prabhupāda: That is the proof, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body is finished, no more working, the soul is there, he has accepted another body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are educated, sober they are not surprised. Those who are not educated, they are surprised. Therefore this very word is used, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means one who is sober by education. He knows the soul has now left this body. He has accepted another body. That is dhīra. He knows by education. Therefore this very word... Find out.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara
tatha dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Bahulāśva: That's Chapter number two, text thirteen. "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: That's it. He does not lament. "No, this body is no more useful." Just like this dress is no more useful. Throw it away. Accept another dress. But dress is old, now it is useless, that does not (mean) you are useless. You accept another dress. That's all.

Garden Conversation -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...is not knowledge. If the tenant thinks that "This apartment is mine, I am owner," then he is wrong. If he knows perfectly well that it belongs to the landlord, "I have given for use," then it is knowledge.

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the tenant can be easily evicted.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Evicted. At that time he knows the owner. (laughter) When he is kicked out. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not believing in God, to them God will come one day as death, "Now believe Me. Get out!" Finished. All your pride finished. Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscraper building—all taken away. "Finished. Get out." This is God. Now understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He will take you, take your everything, and "Get out!" That is God. You believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. The same example, the tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, "Get out," then you have to go out. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything, finished." That one has to believe, "Yes, as sure as death." Then God is sure. You may challenge so long you have got little life for a few years, (laughter) but God will come and drive you away from your present pride, prestigious position, "Get out." So unless one is madman, he cannot say, "There is no God." Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman.

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, wouldn't it be better to say he is blind, he is stupid?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the same thing. Mad is the sum total of all stupidity. (laughter) When I say mad, it is the sum total of all kinds of stupidity. Now you can give them prasādam. I think we have occupied their time.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when would you like to speak to Dr. Judah about the college?

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there. You have found out the verse?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. Read it.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Some of the fortunate persons like you, you are coming. Kona, kona, "some fortunate." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. But you can convert them to become fortunate. Devotee can do that. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. They are thinking very much advanced, but they are lost of their sense, lost of their intelligence. They think of us as foolish. We do not enjoy life. (laughter) And we think of them as animals. This is the position. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
(BG 2.41)

"Those who are spiritually fixed up, their determination is one, and those who are not fixed up, their mind is diverted in so many things, unnecessary things." (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...vādīs have given the philosophy that "Yes, vyavasāyātmikā-buddhir ekeha, make the intelligence one, but you can think of anything. You can think of a rock, you can think of the sky."

Prabhupāda: You rascal. Anything... Anything one. So if I think of hell, will that do?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, the Māyāvādī says, "Anything is as good as anything else."

Prabhupāda: Yes. How rascal they are. Anything else... This is Ramakrishna Mission's. They are rascals. These rascals, they do not know anything, and still, they have made a missionary activity.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Huh? But that is... You are blind rascal, you cannot see. That does not mean that He has no body. You cannot see even the president's body here. That means president has no body? You rascal, you cannot understand. Because you cannot see the president's body, you cannot say, "No, the president is bodyless." That is your defect. You become qualified to see the president. You'll see he has got a body. Those who are not qualified to see him, they can say that he has not body. But why he has no body? śāstra says. So if you remain fools and rascals, that is another thing, but He has a body. Iśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda, Brahmā is saying. Why He has no body? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means body.

Harikeśa: But we don't know, so we're taking the known and speculating on that...

Prabhupāda: You do not know; therefore you have to learn. If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still you want to know, that is not possible. You have to know from the real source. Then you'll know. But if you keep yourself in the rascal platform, then how you will know? Just like you have to go to a school to learn things. So how you can learn at home? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You have to go in order to understand that science. So how do you argue, keeping yourself in darkness? In darkness you cannot see anything. "Oh, I do not see anything; therefore there is nothing." Is that very good reason? You are blind, you cannot see the darkness. That is another thing. But things are there. You make your eyes operated and manifest your vision. Then you'll see. Therefore, ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ. Everyone is blind, in darkness. He cannot see anything. So one who opens the eyes, jñānāñjana-śalākayā, by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. This is description of guru. If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. Guru means who is not blind. I may be blind. Then that will be effective. This is no reason, "I cannot see." What you are? You can see? You cannot see even the president, and you want to see God without being qualified? This is laymans', rascal's reason, "I cannot see. I do not see." What you are? What you can see? You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. The formula is there. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed love of God is always seeing God. So where is that qualification? You are not lover of God, you are lover of dog, so how you can see God? You can see dog. That's all. Go on seeing dog perpetually. And at the time of death see the dog and become a dog. That's all.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhakta is the only scientist. All others rascals.

Dr. Patel: That you may say, but, well... We are also bhakta.

Prabhupāda: That we don't say. Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15).

Dr. Patel: But who? Those who are not...

Prabhupāda: These rascals. All these rascals.

Dr. Patel: Those who are not in search of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: One who has not understood Kṛṣṇa, they are all māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. He may be Vaiśeṣika, kanaḍa, paramānuvada, māyāvāda. There are so... I know these.

Dr. Patel: Māyāvāda and these are all...

Prabhupāda: They different, different philosophies.

Dr. Patel: Vaiśeṣika is one of the six sciences, just like...

Prabhupāda: No, māyāvāda is also one of them.

Dr. Patel: Māyāvāda does not belong to one of the six sciences, do they?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kanaḍa, Gautama, Astavakra, then nāstika Kapila. There are so many.

Yaśomatīnandana: Patañjali.

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No.

Yaśomatī-nandana: According to his bhāṣya, they think like that.

Prabhupāda: No, he has written many prayers on Kṛṣṇa. Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍhā-mate. That means those who are not worshiping Govinda, they are mūḍhā-mati. He is addressing mūḍhā-mati: "You rascal..."

Yaśomatī-nandana: This verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda, vāsudeva sata devam, is also written by him?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yaśomatī-nandana:

vasudevaṁ-sutaṁ devaṁ
kaṁsa-cāṇūra-mardanam
devakī paramānandaṁ
kṛṣṇaṁ vande jagat-gurum

Prabhupāda: Maybe, but I do not know.

Yaśomatī-nandana: Because they say, these mundane scholars, that Bhāgavata was after Śaṅkarācārya because he did not write a commentary on Bhāgavata. Because there's a mention of Kaṁsa and Cāṇūra and Vasudeva and Devakī, that means that Śaṅkarācārya did believe in the personal of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: But Vedavyāsa is after Śaṅkarācārya?

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a big hotel.

Prabhupāda: Hotel? Oh.

Tejās: Hotel and office.

Prabhupāda: Those who are not cooperating...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They should be asked to leave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must cooperate.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) The problem that these foreign, some of these foreign devotees that have come lately, they have been such loose devotees that the temple presidents, they want to get rid of them; they are sending them to India. Three people came from Rūpānuga's zone; and they were all useless devotees. They won't listen. They just ran away from Bombay. So I wrote a very strong letter to Rūpānuga Prabhu. I said, you know, they should screen the devotees before they send them to India. What they are doing is they are sending their rejected devotees to India. If any devotee is not good in their zone they say, "Okay, we'll send them to India." But here we have such big projects that we need devotees who will follow the rules strictly and who will listen to authorities.

Prabhupāda: So tell them. If they have rejected and you also reject them, where they will go? Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we will train them, but these devotees don't cooperate very much. (end)

Page Title:Those who are not (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:17 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=45, Let=0
No. of Quotes:45