Prabhupāda: So even if your mind is diverted to some other subject, you will be forced to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have to apply your mind. You see? Either you take it, "Oh, somebody is disturbing," or you are enjoying, you have to, you are forced to turn your mind to this side. And if we go on chanting for a short time, the meditation is always there. And with the dancing, the breathing is also there, but it is a shortcut policy. That policy, the yogic meditation or breathing exercise, samādhi, it is already there in our process. But we don't take in that prescribed way of meditation because that is not possible in this age. It is very difficult. So meditation and breathing exercise is not a part of our program, but it is automatically performed by this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... That is automatically done. It is so nice process. Then your next question is, "Is diet an important segment of the word?" Yes. Diet is very important thing. Just like when a patient goes to a physician, he prescribes a certain type of diet.
That is not possible (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So you have to convince people like that, that it is not a sentimental institution. We are teaching the thing which is very absolutely needed for the human society. As soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, his personal questions and problems are solved. And if others adopt the same principle, then social-political questions are also solved. So we have to teach. They will say it is not practical. Why not practical? No, anything is not, not practical. There are so many scientific... You discovered. Just like this tape recorder. This is advantageous to the human society. But it is not practical that everyone will have a nice tape recorder. That is not practical. But when you go to manufacture, say the discoverer, "Oh, that it is not practical; therefore it should not be manufactured." Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness may not be practical for all, but that does not mean it should not be preached. The customer will take. Just like this tape recorder, one has got money, you have purchased, taking advantage. Similarly, there are many pious persons who can take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you have taken. You are not ordinary common men. There must have been some pious activities in your past lives. Therefore you have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. (BG 7.28) A sinful person cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. One who has completely vanquished all sorts of sinful reactions. Now, the question may be that whether one can finish all sorts of sinful reactions within this material world. No, that is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So one has to see that by his specific duty, entrusted with or discharging that duty, whether Kṛṣṇa is being satisfied. That's all. Therefore one has to accept a bona fide spiritual master to know whether Kṛṣṇa is being satisfied by his work. Who will certify? You cannot concoct, "Oh, I am doing for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa." No, that is not possible. It must be accepted by the representative of Kṛṣṇa, "Yes, by your work, Kṛṣṇa is satisfied." Then it is all right. So... (break) Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. In everything, Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, just stick to these two books very nicely. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). It is a great science and very intricate also. But one has to learn also very diligently. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not for the fools. It is not for the fools. Highly intelligent class of man, he can understand the philosophical aspect of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the thing is so attractive that even a child, even a fool is attracted. Yes. That is the beauty. Although it is very difficult to understand this philosophy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has introduced the system that anyone can take it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (gets in car) (end)
Prabhupāda: So when the gods became victorious, Hiraṇyakaśipu, his wife was arrested. At that time, his wife was pregnant, and the demigods arresting the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu were dragging her to take her into their, I mean to say, planet. In the meantime, Nārada Muni met. Nārada Muni asked them, "What you are doing? This innocent woman you are dragging?" They replied that, "The woman is innocent, I know," the head of the demigods, Indra, "but she is pregnant, and the child is born of the demon. So we shall keep this woman under our custody, and as soon as the child is born we shall kill him. That is our program. We are not going to do any harm to the woman." So Nārada Muni informed that "This child, although he's born of a demon father, he's a great devotee. He's a great devotee, and do not try to kill. Neither you can kill him. This is not possible." But the demigods, they accept the instruction of the authority. Nārada is an authority.
Prabhupāda: No. This is not possible. Because brahmacārīs, they are young men, and they are young girls. Naturally, there is dis-turbance to the mind. Yes. It is just like putting butter pot on fire. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Nanv agni, pramadāgni ghṛta-kumbha-pāyaḥ pumān. Just like fire. (chuckles) Fire is a woman, and man is just like butterpot. It is said. Therefore they should not keep together. (laughs) Just like there are some labels in medicine and some..., "Keep away from fire." Huh? (chuckles) "Keep away from fire." So brahmacārīnī and brahmacārī is not a very good combination. But married couple and some brahmacārīs, that is nice. So this girl is married, but she is separated.
Prabhupāda: Of course, so long we have got this material body, some material consideration must be there. (chuckles) That is not possible to avoid completely.
Devotee (1): They shouldn't force her to get married, though. That was kind of a bad choice that they gave her, "Either get married or don't come on saṅkīrtana." You can't force somebody.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that wasn't the situation. It was not that choice.
Devotee (1): What? You can't... I mean to say that you can't force somebody to get married. You know. That isn't proper.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...means October, November, December?
Janārdana: Until next year in September.
Prabhupāda: Ho, ho! (devotees laugh) That is not possible.
Janārdana: That's what he's asking now.
Prabhupāda: (break) Because in the winter season they don't get tenants?
Janārdana: Well, a few will get easily tenants, but he wants to get a tenant for the whole winter. And September is a month when there is the best chance for getting a tenant because that's when all the student population comes back into town and this is a student district. And so in the month of September he would like to either get a tenant for the whole year or leave the place open. But maybe I can persuade him because it is not very easy to find a suitable apartment for only one month in Montreal.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...pare dhana parke diye nija labha cora: "I borrowed something from you, and I lend him. He does not pay me, and I become thief."
Prabhupāda: So why should you go, anyone, to ask for your shelter, for your food?" Kasmād bhajanti kavayor dhana-durmadandhān: "Why should you approach the materialistic, puffed-up, monied men to give you some help?" So Śukadeva Gosvāmī was strictly following this, strictly following, completely independent. That is not possible at the present day. (chuckles) If we imitate, that will be not good. We have to depose(?). Our Gosvāmīs, they have prescribed yukta-vairāgya: accept everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is yukta-vairāgya. It is also vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya and yukta-vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya means simply renunciation without assimilation. Māyāvādī sect, Śaṅkara sect, they have got stringent laws for renunciation. But Vaiṣṇavas, they have no stringent law. They accept everything as Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, actually offering Kṛṣṇa, working for Kṛṣṇa, living for Kṛṣṇa. This is the best use. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "The best use of a bad bargain."
Prabhupāda: Everything is different. You require different type of body to live there, to go there. Just like if you want to live within the water, this body will not be suitable. But the fish, it has got a type of body, they live very peacefully. Similarly, the residents of moon planet, they are meant for living there. You cannot go and live there, abruptly. That is not possible.
Hayagrīva: Swamiji? Are there people living on the moon now or were they in other yugas living there? Are they in this yuga living there?
Prabhupāda: No, they're still living there. Yes. As we are living here, they are living there. Yes.
Reporter: And how would you describe these people that live there? Would they be invisible to us or visible?
Prabhupāda: Almost invisible, yes.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And after a few seconds he came, he said Kṛṣṇa is playing in the same way. And although the, I mean, stolen cowherd boys and cows they, by the, I mean to say, energy of māyā, by influence of Brahmā, they were kept in a secret cave. They were sleeping. But Kṛṣṇa is playing. That means He has manifested again with the cowherd boys and cows. Then he was convinced, "Yes, He is my Lord." Then Brahma-stava is there. Ānanda cinmaya rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhirya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). So Kṛṣṇa can expand in many, many thousand times. What Brahmā will do by stealing His... No, that is not possible. So Brahmā was also convinced. These things you'll find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Brahma-vimohana. Even Brahmā is bewildered, what to speak of ordinary men like us. So Kṛṣṇa-līlā, to understand... There is no need of understanding. Simply you love Kṛṣṇa, then the whole business finished. Just like if you touch fire, if you understand it or not understand it, the warmness is there. Similarly, either you understand Kṛṣṇa or do not understand Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. Simply if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That's all.
Prabhupāda: I told you that I do not expect that everyone will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. But if there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient to eradicate the darkness. You don't require many stars. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If one man understands perfectly what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, he can do tremendous benefit to the other people. So you are all intelligent boys and girls. You try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with all your reason or argument. But try to understand it seriously. Don't make it a farce. That is the object of life.
Prabhupāda: This is very logical conclusion. As I am changing so many bodies, still I am there. I can understand that I changed my body. I was so little. Now I have grown up. I am old. But I am there. Similarly, it is concluded, when this body will not be there, but I will accept another body. This is very easy to understand, that that "I" is... Now, we can perceive that when you are spiritually emancipated, you will see yourself, God also, and everything spiritual. That requires time. That requires practice. And we are teaching our students that practice, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to change the consciousness. When you change your consciousness, you will see yourself, you will see God, everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. When you are in that spiritual platform, everything will be known to you. But before that, if you want to know, that is not possible. Yes?
Student (7): Do you use your body when you speak?
Prabhupāda: Actually you don't possess. Mānasa deha geha. So by that supposingly possessing, we have got our mind, we have got our body, then expansion of body, wife, children, family, society, country. In this way we possess so many things. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora: "Now whatever I possess, either in the mind or in the family or in the society or in the body—whatever I have got, I surrender unto You, my dear Kṛṣṇa." Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu..., arpilun tuā pade nanda kiśora: "Nanda-kiśora, O the son of Nanda, I give unto You." Marobi rakhobi, yo icchā tohāra: "Now whatever You like, You can do, either you kill me or You protect me, as You like. You are the proprietor. You have right to do everything." This is surrender. This is full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible immediately. Therefore we have to practice. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). And if we die in that Kṛṣṇa consciousness, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram... In the particular type of consciousness, when one gives up this body, then he is transferred into that position next life.
Prabhupāda: It is very easy. If you take to this, you have everything sublime and your life becomes sublime. You haven't got to give up anything. The material needs are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is not disallowed, but adjusted for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We cannot allow eating, mating, like animals, cats and dogs. No. That is not possible. You'll eat, you'll mate, but just like human being, civilized man. Then what is the distinction between animal and man if we behave like animals? Kṛṣṇa, God, is pure. So if you keep yourself in impure condition of life, then how you can make progress towards purity, highest perfection, purity? Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). In the Tenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa that "You are the purest of all." If you are going to reach the purest of all, how you can remain impure? This tapasya... This voluntary restraint means tapasya.
Prabhupāda: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called māyā. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called māyā, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called māyā. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called māyā. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother.
Prabhupāda: So the arrangement was to punish him like that. So when the arrangement was made, everyone became frightened that "This man will be killed." So they presented the fact to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "He is Your devotee. He has served so much. Now he is in danger. If You kindly send some note to the king, he is also great admirer, then he may save his life." Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused, "Oh, he has misappropriated state's money, and you want Me to approach a pound-shilling man, king." He was not seeing even the king. "Oh, this is not possible for him. Let him be punished. He has taken money from the state. I don't wish to interfere." Then nobody could request him anything. So some way or other, the news approached the king, and the king was astonished, "Oh, why this arrangement was made for killing him? I never ordered. Stop him." Then he sent his special messenger, that, "Stop this and call him. What is the matter?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot know completely. That is because our knowledge is very imperfect. But still, so far our knowledge is concerned, as far as possible, we should try to understand. Avāṅ mānasa gocaraḥ. This Absolute is so great and unlimited that it is not possible for us to know Him completely. That is not possible. Our senses does not allow. But as far as it is possible, because, after all, we are part and parcel of the Absolute, so all the qualities of the Absolute are there in us, but it is in minute quantity. So that minute quantity is also very great in comparison to material knowledge. Material knowledge is practically no knowledge. It is covered. But when one is liberated, liberated knowledge is certainly very, very great than material knowledge. So Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. These are the statements of Bhāgavata. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11).
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Why he is crying? If he is hungry, let him come here. We shall provide him. Why he is crying for that? What business he has got to cry, "What will they do?" What they will, that they know. Why he is crying? What is his business for crying for this future? If he is hungry, let him come and we shall provide him. This is not... That is a childish conception. "If everybody becomes sādhu, then what will be the nature of the society?" That is, never becomes. That never becomes. To become sādhu and to become a Vaiṣṇava is not so easy thing. These idle questions, why they publish? I do not know. This is idle question. It never becomes. Lord Kṛṣṇa personally says that "You simply surrender unto Me." How many have surrendered till now? Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You give up everything and surrender unto Me." So how many have done that? So this is a rascal question, "If everyone surrenders, then what will happen to the world?" But that will never happen. It is very difficult to surrender. That he does not know. (Hindi) It is not expected that everyone become sādhu. To become sādhu is not so easy thing, especially this nature of sādhu, pure. How many are there? We have given the prescription that "Give up this, give up this." How many have given up this? So that is not possible, but still, these nonsense questions are raised.
Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: His livelihood was juha(?), bandy-akṣaiḥ, cheating and stealing. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. Cauryaiḥ means stealing. Garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. This kind of profession is garhitā. Garhitāṁ means... Hitā means beneficial. But this profession is garhitā because it is not beneficial. Ultimately he will be punished either by the king's law or by the God's law. I can escape the king's law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God's law. That is not possible. Therefore, although he is thinking that "Now I am cheating this person," or "I am stealing and getting some profit," that is not good for him. Just like a man is killing some man, another man. So that is not good for him because as soon as he will be arrested he'll be hanged. So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the śāstra as garhitā. Garhitā means it is not beneficial for you." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4).
Prabhupāda: What amount you want for your family, minimum?
Guest (4): Five hundred a month.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Yes, you require five hundred. I know that. That is not much. To maintain a family nowadays five hundred rupees is not much but where is the money? How can I pay you?
Guest (4): I would be a very good asset to your publications work.
Prabhupāda: That I know. You are qualified, educated boy. You can do it. But one thing I can do, that you can live with your family just like they are living. That I can arrange. And whatever food we can provide you have to accept. We can... We can arrange for the education of your children also, everything. But we cannot pay anything. That is not possible. We can take charge of the husband and wife. We can take charge of your children. But it is not possible to pay.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Replay little. (break) Please try to understand the philosophy. Thank you. Yes. (Hindi) So you are welcome. You come. Live with us with your family. We take charge of you. But if you ask some salary, that is not possible. That is not possible.
Guest (4): I have my sisters and mother and father to support.
Prabhupāda: So let them come, all, and live with me. (Hindi) That's nice. (Hindi). That I can take. But if you want money, that is not possible.
Guest (5): No, I don't want money.
Prabhupāda: Then you come with your whole family. (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: Their proposal is "Death is sure today or tomorrow, so why shall I change my principles? Death will take place even if I live for ten years more, and what is the benefit? Why shall I change my principles? It is not that by taking that medicine or liver extract I shall be amara, immortal." That is not possible. If somebody gives some medicine that one can make himself immortal, that is another thing. Nobody is going to be immortal. Why he should be afraid of death? Death will take place. "As sure as death." So today, or tomorrow, or hundred years after. So if one moment is utilized for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that makes life successful. Why shall I live for hundred years, waste my time? One moment is sufficient for living.
Himāvatī: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I just have one question about the ending, that Ajāmila, he was calling the name of his youngest son.
Prabhupāda: Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Kirāṭa-huṇāndhra-pulin... Huh? (Hindi) (break) ...obeisance to guru. Then his guru, then his guru, up to Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) ...paramparā system. You cannot directly approach God. That is useless. You have no power to approach God directly. That is not possible. Guru kṛṣṇa kṛpayā (CC Madhya 19.151). (Hindi) Let them study this philosophy. We have got books, enough books. One cannot read all these books even throughout whole life. (break)
Guest (2): I am going to...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You do actually work.
Guest (2): So I can also accompany certain places like...
Prabhupāda: You arrange. We can go there with all party. Now here in this part... You can get. This... Immediately we can go. From India...
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. You are thinking lower level, and how you can surrender to yourself? Then how you can get advance? Your surrender means to a superior person, as soon as you call surrender. And without this, there is no possibility.
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
We have to accept these principles; otherwise how it can make the... There is no possibility. Just like if you want to be educated. You have to be admitted to an institution, in school, in a college. If you say, "I shall be educated at home," that is not possible.
Guest (1): Many have...
Prabhupāda: No "many." This is the general process.
Prabhupāda: Then what form?
Guest (1): What I mean is we are accepting anything to bring ourselves to certain destination which will satisfy us all. For that we are...
Prabhupāda: Nothing can satisfy everyone. That is not possible. There is no such thing within this material world which can satisfy everyone. There is no such thing.
Guest (1): Because we...
Prabhupāda: No, no, because... There may be so many "because." But the fact is that there is nothing in this material world which can satisfy everyone.
Guest (1): There can be a method which can...
Prabhupāda: Maybe, but we do not know.
Guest (1): Therefore beyond that, you see, I came...
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. We accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme authority. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Who is accepting this? We have accepted. Some others may have accepted but you have not accepted. So therefore even Kṛṣṇa's injunction is not accepted by everyone, what to speak of others? So therefore you cannot find out within this material world anything which can satisfy everyone. That is not possible.
Guest (1): We have not found that.
Prabhupāda: You may think, but we have concluded that there is nothing, such thing, which can satisfy everyone. It is not possible.
Guest (1): Until we hear all, we may do that...
Prabhupāda: Ah... Yes. It is to be learned, just like the electrician learns how to adjust the positive and negative wire, and as soon as it is rightly adjusted there is light. You cannot say, "No, no, why it shall be adjusted like this? It can be done like this." Oh, that will not give you light. You cannot speculate on the science. One plus... Two plus two equal to four. You cannot speculate, "Oh, can it not be three? Cannot be five?" No, that is not possible. You have to accept this two plus two equal to four. So the same example: so long it was not being adjusted to the right point, there was no light. So this adjustment... Suppose there is failure in my home. For this adjustment I have to call an experienced man. You may be a lawyer, you may be very nice thinker, but so far electricity is concerned, you have to call for a mistrī, who may not be learned like you but he knows the art, how to do it, expert. Similarly, such a vast subject to understand God, you do not require the help of an expert?
Prabhupāda: That is the process. So how can you deny to understand the supreme science—you can do it independently? No, that is not possible. Therefore it is the verb, the form, gacchet. It is called vidhilinga. You know Sanskrit? Yes. This form of verb is... Perhaps you also know. Gacchet, kuryat, gadyat. These are vidhilinga. Vidhilinga means that is compulsory. Is it not?
Guest (3): Yes.
Prabhupāda: He knows Sanskrit very well. Compulsory. Therefore it is said, gacchet-compulsory. Tad-vijñānārtham... Tat, the transcendental knowledge, vijñāna, that is science. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva niścayate (MU 1.2.12). Eva is niścayate. Eva means certainly. And again gacchet, "must go." Now, just like to be educated, one must be admitted in a school, must be. Now, what kind of school he has to select, that is another thing, but he must. That's a fact. Similarly, you have to accept a guru. Now, whom you will accept a guru, that is another thing. But you have to do it. That is the injunction of all śāstras.
Prabhupāda: But then He doesn't say. You say, "If you follow me." Now it is your discretion to follow Him or not to follow Him. Kṛṣṇa said this to Arjuna. That does not mean everyone of the world, like Arjuna, surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Anyone, if he says, even Kṛṣṇa, or God, says, it is not that everyone follows that. That independence you have got. But our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me," and we are imploring, we are begging persons, that "You please surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Now it is your discretion. Whether you surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Lord Śiva, that is your discretion. But our preaching method is we are trying to preach in the world, "Please surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That is our position.
Guest (3): Sir, can I speak now?
Prabhupāda: No, that is... That is a change of color only. But the surrender is there. The principle of surrender is there. Either you surrender to monarchy, either you surrender to democracy or aristocracy or, what is called, dictatorship, you have to surrender. That's a fact. That's a fact. Without surrendering, our life is... There is no life. That is not possible. So we are educating persons to surrender to the Supreme wherefrom you get all protection. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), aham tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So surrender is there. Nobody can say, "Now I am not surrendering to anyone." There is not a single person. Difference is where he is surrendering, where he is surrendering. The ultimate surrendering objective is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After surrendering to so many things, birth after birth, when he's actually wise he surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: (BG 7.19)
Prabhupāda: Irritated... If your mind is in peace... If you are not indulging in intoxication, gambling, illicit sex, then your mind will not be irritated. How a gambler can be in peaceful mind? That is not possible. How a drunkard can be in peaceful mind? Agitation is for them who are simply engaged in sinful life. Those who are not engaged in sinful life, naturally they are peaceful. Their mind is not agitated. Vegetarians are naturally peaceful. Just see between a dog and a cow. (laughter). Dog unnecessarily will talk: "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" (makes barking sound) without any fault. "Why you are here? Why you are here? Why you are here?" That is dog's qualification. A cow, so useful animal, it will never agitate. The dog has no use, but still he's the best friend. (laughter) And cow, actually giving us milk, sending to the slaughterhouse. Just see. This is human civilization.
Prabhupāda: Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ (BG 7.28). One who has finished sinful activities, he can be engaged in God consciousness. One who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot. Devil citing scripture. A devīl cannot cite scripture. Angel can cite scripture. And according to our ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he says that "Don't hear scriptures from the devīl." Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam." If a devīl's preaching about God, don't hear." If you say, "God is pure, so let me hear about God. It doesn't matter whether he is devīl or angel. It doesn't matter." No. The argument is sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Just like milk is very nourishing food, but if it is touched by the lips, by the tongue of a serpent, it becomes poison. Sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. You cannot bring the milk which is touched by the serpent's tongue. So we should receive knowledge of God, message of God, from a person who is not a devīl. Then it will be effective. Otherwise, it will act as poison. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's principle is āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. He first of all behaves himself, and then he preaches. So if the preacher is sinful, how he can deliver other sinful men by his so-called preaching. That is not possible. He must be pure, he must be sinless. Then his preaching will be effective. But in all conditions, if we, with faith and love we chant the holy name of God, we shall become gradually purified. There is no, I mean to say, cause of anxiety. Anyone who will chant this holy name, he'll be purified.
Prabhupāda: You can say what you like but the function of the mind is flickering. Just like when Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa to train the mind by meditation, by yoga system. He said that "Kṛṣṇa, it is very difficult for me." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham (BG 6.34). My mind is very, I mean to say, agitated. I think to control the mind is as impossible as controlling the wind. Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi ba..., vāyor iva suduṣkaram. And it is very difficult to (indistinct) high wind and if you want to control it, as it is impossible. Similarly I think the activities of the mind, thinking, feeling and willing, to control them is very difficult for me. So actually that is the position. So long we shall be on the mental platform there will be no fixity of conclusion. That is not possible. We have to accept something for the time being, then again reject it. Therefore all mental speculators differ. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... A philosopher is not philosopher until he differs from other philosophers. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... Unless you place a different thesis he will not be accepted as a good philosopher.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). The exact word is there that if one gets good engagement, he can gives up bad engagement. But he cannot make it inactive. That is not possible because soul is active. It is living. How he can make it inactive? That is not possible. Nirvāṇa means stop nonsense, but take to spiritual life. That is next athāto brahma jijñāsā. Nirvāṇa does not mean to stop activities; to stop nonsense activities. Come to the real activity.
Dr. Weir: Well aṇiman, the word many people use for the soul, also means of course, life. (indistinct) being animate. The two are synonymous.
Śyāmasundara: Just like you were saying a while ago that if you were in God consciousness, you need not wear a robe. That's also our philosophy. It's very practical. But your consciousness would be always serving Kṛṣṇa, always serving God in whatever status of life. It isn't necessary to put on a robe first and then do like that.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yes. Whenever somebody comes from there, something must be brought, because these things are not available. (break) ...Indian, you cannot excel in mechanical knowledge the Europeans, American. That is not possible. We will always remain hundred years back. Everyone has got some special talent given by God. We should cooperate. That's it. The hand can work in this way. We cannot walk with hands. That is the business of the hand. Similarly, I cannot cut the papers with leg. So all living entities are endowed with special... We should cooperate. The hand and leg should cooperate for maintaining the whole body. Similarly, everyone should use his talent for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Not compete with one another. That is mistake.
Devotee (2): (unwrapping package) It's not the microphone.
Prabhupāda: It is not subject matter to understand immediately. It is a science.
Reporter: Yes, a science.
Prabhupāda: It is a science, jñāna sa vijñāna. So you cannot understand a science in five minutes. That is not possible.
Reporter: Yes. So we were trying to understand... No. We have just come to understand you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was others you cannot understand. (laughter)
Reporter: (indistinct) He is trying to tell some kind of parochial (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: If you kindly accept what I say, then it is possible. If you are simply, what I say, if you have faith in me, and if what I say you believe, then you can understand. Other, it is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Huh? There is no question of preference. Kṛṣṇa's creation, it is there. You are creating (indistinct) caste, jana-saṅgaś caste. Caste is already given, in a different name. How you can make casteless? That is not possible. The whole world—"I am American," "I am Indian"—this is caste, bigger caste. Yasyātma-buddhi-kuṇa. So long you will be under the concept of this body, there must be caste division. So we have to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there will be no caste. Just like these boys, Americans, Europeans, Africans, Canadians, they have no caste, they have no nationality. They are simply for Kṛṣṇa. That is casteless.
Reporter: So are they brāhmaṇas?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...program he, I shall return to the USA by the month of March. So, December, January, February. (Hindi conversation) Thank you very much. (Hindi) We are dealing with facts. (Hindi) The..., already everything is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. We have to simply explain them. That's all. Explanation (Hindi). You cannot stop sunshine. That is not possible. But you close yourself in the dark room. It is not possible to cover Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. But by jugglery of words you close yourself in a dark room. (Hindi conversation) Oh, thank you. All right, thank you very much. Come on. No. (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi conversation) (break)
Guest: (indistinct) Any worship we first worship Lord Ganeśa, India.
Prabhupāda: So two sides we are trying, to define the natural division of human society. The intelligent class, the administrator class, the productive class, and the worker class. There is natural division. You cannot say that everywhere simply there are intelligent class of men. No. Because we are infected with the three kinds of the material modes. You cannot expect all men are on the same level. That is not possible. Someone is in the modes of goodness, someone is in the modes of passion, someone is in the modes of ignorance, and someone is in the modes of mixture. That is the natural division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaisya, śūdra. Those who are purely in goodness, they are brāhmaṇa. Next to that, passion, kṣatriya. And next to that, vaiśya, mixture. And next to that, śūdra. And next to that, caṇḍāla.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that...
Dr. Singh: Can't we all be combined in a single person rather than dividing them into four, at least in the present age?
Prabhupāda: No. That is not possible. Suppose if you are a kṣatriya, you are ruling, you cannot go to work in the field.
Dr. Singh: We go to work in the office, which is equally hard, I can assure you. (laughs) We go from morning till evening. I wish I could go to the field, in fact.
Prabhupāda: You cannot put a cart before a horse. That is not possible. Of course, the Communists, they are trying to do that, but they have also failed. I went to Moscow. They have got a worker class and they have got a manager class, manager class. They cannot do without it. It must be there.
Prabhupāda: That is our business. Bodily comforts, this comfort, that is already settled up with this body. But we should also know that anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, if he has got any slight desire for bodily comfort, he'll get that. He'll get that. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if he tries, that is not possible. If I have got slight desire for my material improvement, Kṛṣṇa will satisfy you, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That means you are double way benefited. You get Kṛṣṇa consciousness as well as your desire for material benefit. That is also there. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you want to improve your material condition, that is not possible. Deha-yogena de... You may become rich, that's all right, but comfort does not depend on your richness. If you're not Kṛṣṇa conscious, it does not mean because you have got some money by struggling very hard you'll get. There are so many rich men you'll find, they are not comfortable. I have heard from our students, their parents, just like Śyāmasundara was telling, his father is taking... What is that pill?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So we have to become swans, rāja-haṁsa, paramahaṁsa, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Then you can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you remain crows, then you cannot, that is not possible. By nature's example we have to see if crows-like and swans-like, pigeons-like, birds of the same feather. Birds of the same feather flock together, is it not? So you have to change your feather, then he will be pleased. If you keep your feather crows-like, then you cannot mix with the swans, that is not possible. This is the test. There are classes of men like crows, and there are classes of men like swans. So we are preparing our devotee... (aside) What is that?
Devotee (1): Is anybody watching?
Devotee (2): No.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means swan-like, they should be like swans. Their behavior should be like swans. They should live in clean place, at refreshing place. So as soon as somebody will come to the temple, he will be... (aside) You have some papers I shall show?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible by any human being. Because any human being, his senses are imperfect. So how he can teach perfect knowledge? Just like you see the sun like a disc. You have no means to approach the sun. If you say, "We can see the sun by telescope and this and that," that is also made by you. And you are imperfect, your instrument is imperfect. Because that telescope you can say that you are seeing, but that machine is made by you, and you are imperfect. How your machine can be perfect? Therefore your knowledge of the sun is imperfect. So you don't teach about sun unless you have got perfect. That is cheating.
Prabhupāda: The whole human life is meant for purifying. Śuddhyed sattva. Sattva means existence. So if you don't purify your existence, then you'll have to change your body, from this body to that. Sometimes it may be higher, sometimes lower. Just like, if you don't cure your disease, it can take turn in so many ways to put you into trouble. Similarly, if you don't purify your existence, then you'll have to transmigrate from one body to another. And there is no guarantee what kind of body you'll get. Very subtle laws of nature. Now there is no guarantee that you will get a very comfortable body or American body, no. Therefore for human being it is essential that he should purify his existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam (SB 5.5.1). Unless you purify your existence, you're hankering after happiness, you cannot get continued happiness. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If the interest is one—to capture this—then it is one. That means to... You cannot lose your individuality. But if your interest is one, then you merge into. Do you understand? Just like you are all Australian. Why you are all Australian? Or you are all individual. How you become all Australian, merge into the Australian conception? Because as Australian, you have one interest. So individuality cannot be killed. That is not possible. You are all individual. But when you make your interest one, then you merge into that thing. Each one of us, an individual person... What is your ideal, you all three? You are three persons. What is your philosophy, ideal? Vegetarian?
Impersonalist: Meditation and action.
Upendra: Meditation and action.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever you do, you do all together. That is merging. But you are all individual. Your personality is different from his. His personality different from him. He is from you. But because you have got one interest, therefore you one. Just like we. We are so many individuals. But our interest is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are one. Try to understand what is merging into one. You are all individual. Nobody can be... It is not something material. We are all spirit soul, so we are all individual. But if our interest becomes one, then we merge into one. This is oneness. Try to understand this oneness. Oneness does not mean void, no. Oneness means when our interest becomes one; that is oneness. Real oneness means to be interested in Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness. Other oneness will not stand. Just like you are now in one. As soon as your interest little becomes different, you become separated. So that is... There is quite possibility. Because you are all individual, there is quite possibility of disagreeing with another individual person. There is quite possibility. So oneness does not mean that you lose your individuality. Oneness means you keep your individuality, but you take the same interest. Then it is oneness. It is not possible that you lose your individuality. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: That... Just like from perspiration we are also creating water, but nobody is going to drink that water. Nobody is coming to lick my body, "Here is water." (laughter) That is not possible.
Devotee: Even if they mix hydrogen and oxygen to get water, still, where does the hydrogen and oxygen come from?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the chemical comes? Such vast sea water, so where you got so much chemical? Then the next question, that Who supplies the chemicals?
Martin: I've been there before. They all come down the same. They all come to the same place. You said that it is possible to see God eye-to-eye.
Prabhupāda: Who has created the brain of Professor Einstein? You have not created. You are trying to make a xerox copy, that's all. But the original is already there. Now who has created the original brain? Then you have to go to God. But you have not created. It is not my men(?). If man could create such brain, then, "Ah, never mind, the professor has died. We create another person like." That you cannot. So even if you are able to imitate, you are not the supreme scientist. First of all it is doubtful. So accepting that you will be able to copy or xerox copy of Einstein's brain, that does not give you the credit. The credit is already there, God's credit. At least we shall not give you any credit. We shall speak that the original brain is created by God. You cannot create. If you had the power to create, then there was no necessity of copying. You could create better brain. That you haven't got. You are trying to take xerox copy from that brain. Just like big, big aeroplanes are flying, but their, the shape is made after the bird. The original shape bird is created by God. He has got the same type of machine even within an insect, small insect flying. You can create a small aeroplane like that. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: That is for human being, art, not for the cats and dogs. So how you can go to animal life? That is not possible. (break) How do you know your father?
John Fahey: Well, I met him.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
John Fahey: I met him. I grew up with him. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: How do you know your real father?
Devotee: How do you know he's your father, who you met?
John Fahey: They just told me.
Prabhupāda: You cannot say that I have got a different faith. I do not care for the laws of God. If it is a law... Just like, for example, here in the state, if you kill somebody, then you have to pay for it with your life. So if that is the law in your state, why a similar law in broader sense is not there in the courts of God, law..., law of God? You can avoid the arrest by the police and punishment by the state law by tricks, but you cannot avoid by tricks the law of God. That is not possible. If you violate the law of God, then you will be punished. If you violate the law..., just like if you touch fire your hand will be burned, so this law you cannot violate. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, if you touch fire, the law of God is that it will burn. So it will not care for you whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian. So law of God is applicable to everyone. Either you are Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you have got this faith or that faith, doesn't matter. So we have got such a God whose laws are equally respectable.
Prabhupāda: When he's all right, his civil department controls him. When he's not all right, then the criminal department controls him. But he cannot say that "I am not controlled." That is not possible. If somebody says, "I am not controlled," he is not sane. He is crazy. Everyone is controlled. So either you be controlled directly by God or you be controlled by his agency. Being controlled by māyā, you spoil your life. That means you remain in the material existence, one after another. You simply change your body. But if you give yourself to be controlled by God, then after this body you go back to home, back to Godhead. Then your life is successful. You cannot be without being controlled. That is not possible. Therefore one who is intelligent, he puts himself under the control of God directly. That is intelligence. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many births of struggling, or speculation, one surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarva..., "Kṛṣṇa, You are everything. So I am.... Accept me. I am now fully surrendered unto You, and You control me."
Prabhupāda: That, that we'll have to find, find later on. First of all the principle should be accepted that unless we hear from the perfect person, our knowledge is imperfect. First of all you have to agree to this point. Therefore you are going to your schools, colleges, universities, because at home who could learn everything? So why you are going to school, colleges and universities? That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that in order to know that perfect knowledge, one has to approach the proper person, who is know as guru.
Guest (1): That's what I was getting at.
Guest (2): (aside) Could I ask a couple of questions now?
Devotee: Please. Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is the cure: I am making good character. Don't you see their face? Some of them were hippies, frustrated, wretched condition. Now they are known as bright faces, serious character. They don't have any illicit sex. They don't eat meat. They don't have any intoxication. They don't engage in gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. If you allow people to indulge in sinful life, how you can expect good citizen? That is not possible. Their character must reform. So we have taken from the root. We are making men of character, knowledge, sincerity, God conscious. Don't you appreciate it?
Guest (2): Will they be able to function in a society as working individuals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all we have to know ourselves. To know ourselves means self-realization: "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." Then what is this spirit soul? Naturally, part and parcel of God. Therefore as spirit soul my duty is to serve God. That is religion, plain thing. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It is serving me. That is healthy condition. If there is any pain—"Oh, this finger cannot scratch. I'm feeling pain"—that is irreligion. So long the part and parcel of my body, the finger, cannot serve me, it is not normal condition. So every living being is part and parcel of God. So long he's unable to serve God, that is his material condition. But as soon as he's engaged actually in the service of God, that is his real liberated position. Same example: If the finger is diseased, it cannot serve. But when it is serving, that is healthy condition. Similarly, we living entities, we are part and parcel of God. When we are not engaged in the service of the Lord, or God... Everyone is engaged to some service. Somebody's serving his family, somebody's serving himself, somebody's serving his government, somebody's serving so many things. And somebody's serving even cats and dogs. So these are all mad condition. So when he turns to God... Service he must give. Nobody can say, "I'm not serving anybody." That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: British Empire, when there was British Empire, when they were getting money from all over the world, somehow or other they constructed so many big, big buildings. Now they are encouraging not so big, and now it is difficult to maintain it. We can see practically that you have got so nice buildings in London, but it is not being properly maintained. You haven't got sufficient means now to maintain them. Therefore it was..., British Empire was for the time being that prosperity. Now to keep up your prestige you are concerned in so many ways. So anything you do in this material world, that is temporary. So many-Roman Empire, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Hitler Empire—they came and gone. But my real problem is that I am eternal, so what I am doing for my eternal life? That is it. Temporarily I may become very rich or poor, it doesn't matter. But people are being taught, "Oh, you are poor? You become rich." That's all. Just like our India trying to imitate the Western world. But they do not see that in the Western world, in America, in Europe, why these young boys, they are rejecting this materialistic way of life? These boys have come to me because they have rejected, they don't like. Just like you are coming. Why you are surrendering to me? Because you are not satisfied. So our Indians, they do not see that "These men, they have already everything. Why they are rejecting?" All facility. Because this will not give us real happiness. We are spirit soul. We cannot be happy simply by material opulence. That is not possible.
Dhanañjaya: Golden Products.
Prabhupāda: In our society? No.
Dhanañjaya: I told him...
Prabhupāda: That is not possible.
Devotee: Who is he?
Dhanañjaya: He went to the (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. There was a boy.
Dhanañjaya: His other idea is, he said he was working for Sai Baba, Satya Sai Baba. He said that in India he had raised so many thousands of lakhs of rupees by making posters. They are impersonal posters, so much nonsense in them, but they sold like lottery tickets. In this way he printed them and made so much money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not lot of. Some books he has written. So our request is to the Indians especially that we have got something to give to the world. Simply don't beg. Give something. Then you will be honored. You cannot compete with them by technology, by learning here. That is not possible. If you can give them something, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (2): How far is saṁskāra powerful like...?
Prabhupāda: Well, saṁskāra you can change in a second. Saṁskāra may be powerful. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa assures you, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. He will give you protection. Saṁskāra means you did some sinful activities and you are suffering. But He gives you protection. Sarva-pāpebhyo.
Prabhupāda: Guṇa, develop. They are... They are developing these brahminical qualifications, coming to sattva-guṇa. From rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, they are coming to sattva-guṇa. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ, these qualities are manifested by lust and greediness. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. When one's heart will not be disturbed by these two qualities, tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, then he will be situated in sattva-guṇa. Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he becomes satisfied. At that time he becomes jolly. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ, bhagavat-tattva-vijñānaṁ mukta-saṅgasya jāyate (SB 1.2.20). When he becomes jolly, being situated in sattva-guṇa, at that time he can understand what is bhagavat-tattva, what is the Absolute Truth, not in the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they are making all these things.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. We cannot change the arrangement of the nature. That is not possible. What we have changed?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to be really happy, and so they say the...
Prabhupāda: No, you be happy, that is nice, because happiness is our position. According to Vedic civilization, every living entity is by nature should be happy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is the nature, to become happy. But if you say that the arrangement of nature is not perfect, then you are fool.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why these people are saying that God created the universe, but still they say, "We want more." (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is our constitutional position. Just like eating and drinking. You may eat something, I may eat something, but eating is essential. You cannot say that I don't eat. That is not possible. Eating, sleeping, mating, defending—these are the bodily necessities. Similarly, the soul's necessity is to serve someone. Either you serve your country or your society or your family or your community, or at least if you nothing to serve, then you keep a dog and serve it. (laughter)
Mrs. Keating: Or what?
Śyāmasundara: A dog.
Mrs. Keating: Oh, a dog, yeah.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, the conclusion is that I have to serve. This is our position. Do you admit?
Mrs. Keating: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Suppose I say that I don't serve. That is not possible. That being our constitutional position then, just like my finger, it is serving, always, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that. The finger's business is to serve. As part and parcel of my body, the finger's business is to serve the whole body. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God. Our essential business is to serve God. How do you find this argument? Do you refute this argument?
Mrs. Keating: You serve and you share.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: This is the right... Another definition is God, God is all-attractive. Now, if you try to understand what is this attractiveness, just like your American country is very opulent, very attractive. If a man is very rich in the society, he is attractive. Then if a man is very strong, then he is attractive. If a man is very famous, he is attractive. If a man-man or woman—if a man is very beautiful, he is attractive. If a man is in the renounced order, he is attractive. If a man is very wise, he is attractive. These six features are attractive features. Now, these attractive features, every one of us have to some extent. Just like you are ambassador, representative of USA, so you are attractive. So this attractiveness you have got. Sometimes I have also got. Somebody comes to me, "Let me see this Swami speak," you see. So this attractiveness everyone possesses. But God means who has got all the attractiveness in full. That is God. You may be very rich, but you cannot say that "I am the richest person in the world." That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this cheating process is going on. But you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā, that is not possible. It is gosvāmī, that is (indistinct) Don't make compromise that somehow or other just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the laws of nature. So how is that achieved? Just like laws of nature are so strict, if you eat more, immediately you get indigestion. So how you can cheat? You can experience. Nature's law is working. Therefore, to become brāhmaṇa means satyam. You know the meaning of satyam? Satyam means truth. The first quality is he is truthful. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. The beginning is satyam. Generally the people in pilgrimages like Vṛndāvana, they have taken this religiousness as a profession to earn money, just like other businessmen do. That is cheating. Generally they do so. In Los Angeles they are keeping the standard given by ourself.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We defend with atomic bomb and they defend their own nails and claws. The different spirit is there. So that is not the aim of human life. The aim of human life—this opportunity's given by nature to have a human form of life—is to understand God. Nobody can deny—unless he is a crazy fellow—the existence of God. That is not possible. There must be. I may know it or not know it, it doesn't matter. Therefore religion means to understand God and to awaken your dormant love for God. This is religion. Now there may be difference of process, according to country, time, people. Therefore, it is the duty of the government, it is the duty of the government... Hare Kṛṣṇa (someone enters). Formerly the kings, they were regularly supervising that their citizens were properly executing religious culture. That was government's duty. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So now government is callous about religion. I'm very glad to know that your government has left some department to supervise.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is deviated. The Bhagavad-gītā, the Chapter, Fourth Chapter explains that you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation. You must follow the instruction of the original speaker of Bhagavad-gītā. The original speaker is Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa says, they have to follow it. Then it is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise if you interpret it in a different way then it is not Bhagavad-gītā. Now, what Kṛṣṇa says we have to understand it philosophically, ethically, scientifically, any way, any angle of vision. That is, that you can do. But you cannot change the version of Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot change. Just like Dr. Rādhākrishnan, in the Ninth Chapter when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Dr. Rādhākrishnan says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." But Kṛṣṇa person says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "You just always think of Me." And he's deviating his readers, "Not to Kṛṣṇa." How much harm he's doing. This is going on. Why? It is said, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "Just think of Me. Just become my devotee." What right he has got to say that here it is not to Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. So if we interpret in that nonsense way then we shall not be able to understand Bhagavad-gītā. We shall miss this point. Science does not mean that you have to change according to your whims. Two plus two equal to four. You cannot make it five or three. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So this is the understanding. Unless we understand this, there cannot be any peace. That is the Vedic version. Anyone who understands this, he gets peace. Otherwise there's no possibility of peace. If I think that I am the proprietor, if I think that I am the enjoyer, or, in other words, I am God, then you'll never get peace. That is not possible. That is a false. If one of the children thinks that I am the independent, then naturally father will say, "All right, if you're independent, do your own business." This is an example. So if you want peace then, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you have to learn these three things. It is not very difficult. To accept God as the Supreme Enjoyer, and God as the sole proprietor of everything, and He's the best friend of everyone. Then you have peace. Anyone can appreciate this. Anyone can adopt this principle and he'll be in peace. And so long one will falsely think that "I am God. I am enjoyer, I am this, I am that." Then he'll suffer. False notion will never make him happy.
Prabhupāda: Then He must be proprietor. But we are falsely claiming that, "I am the proprietor." So how you can be in peace? Suppose you steal something, somebody's property, and falsely claim, "I am proprietor," you'll never be peace because it is not your thing. You have stolen it. So in this way, if you... philosophy can be studied that God is the Supreme Proprietor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You can simply use what is given to you. You cannot claim other's property. Just like in animal life, animal life, they do not claim that "This is my country." The birds, they do not claim, but they live very peacefully. There are crows, there are spa... What is called? So many birds, they live anywhere, everywhere, but they do not claim, "Oh, this is my country. This is my place." They do not claim. Therefore they are free to move everywhere. So we have created a situation, Godless situation, therefore we are not in peace. So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati (BG 5.29), this is the way of śānti. You cannot create your śānti in your own way. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: But they're not living, they're not living. They are doing all kinds of sinful activities, they are drinking, they are having illicit sex, they're gambling, they're killing animals. Very sin... Everyone is engaged in these things. Maybe few percentage people are not engaged. But the throughout the whole world they're implicated in these four kinds of sinful activities. How you can expect that he's going to have next body very nice? No. That is not possible if you believe in karma. According to karma... Just like here in the human society there is law that if you kill a man, you should be also killed. Similarly, in God's laws so the same law is there. Māṁ sa, māṁsa. If I eat an animal then he will have the chance to eat me next life. This is karma. Who is caring for all these things?
Prabhupāda: So, not offense (?). There is no question of making. We should behave ourself very nicely. Offending or pleasing that is (indistinct). You cannot offend everyone, neither you can please everyone. That is not possible. You keep to your standard. You keep to your standard. Then everything, everybody will see, "Oh, that is nice." Offending, you cannot please everybody. That is not possible. Even if you hear very nicely. Caitanya Mahāprabhu could not please everyone. He had to start civil disobedience. Even Gandhi was killed. That is not possible. You cannot please everybody. But you must stick to your own principle, and behave nicely. That's all. All right. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is possibility. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Change of body. So if... According to laws of nature, you have to change your body. You cannot dictate the laws of nature that: "Give me this body. Give me again American body." That is not possible. When you are dead, you have to accept another body. It may be cat's body, dog's body. It doesn't matter. You cannot dictate nature that: "Give me a body like this."
Brahmānanda: Just like when the magistrate gives you a sentence, you cannot say: "Oh, give me this sentence..." No, you must accept.
Prabhupāda: No.
Brahmānanda: ...what the punishment is.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Neither you can say the magistrate partial, the judge. Somebody, he gives, "Give him degree for one million dollars." Another: "Hang him." So the judge is not partial. He is getting his money. He's getting his punishment. He's simply making judgement. He's not impartial. He's not enemy to anyone or friend to anyone. Similarly according to your work, you'll get punishment or reward by God. God is not partial.
Brahmānanda: That's another argument they give that when there's some calamity, then they say: "Oh,..." Then they blame the Supreme...
Prabhupāda: God.
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Just like if you go into the sea and if you want to be comfortable. This is foolishness. You cannot be. You are animal of land. If you are put into the water, however, expert swimmer you may be, you'll not be comfortable. That's not possible. So you are spirit soul. You cannot be comfortable in the material world. You can struggle, but that is not possible. And they are simply giving bluff, "In future, we shall, in future." This is rascaldom. They don't admit that it is not possible. They simply give bluff: "In future..." You see. "In future, it will be," we can also accept that, provided you have taken the proper means. But where is your future if you are wrongly directed? A child's future is bright when we see that he's being educated, he's going to school. But when he's playing on the street, where is his future? He has no future. He's wasting his time.
Prabhupāda: The child is sent to school just for teaching him how to think correctly. Otherwise, what is the use of sending him to school? He can think at home. Why they are sent to school? To learn how to think. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) This is thinking, when you question that: "I want to become happy. Why I am not happy?" This is thinking. Everyone wants to become happy, but nature's process is to obstruct his happiness. So one should think: "Why this is position? I want to live. Why, by laws of nature, I am put to death? I must die? This is against my wish, against my desire." This is thinking. So how to get out of it? This is real thinking. I don't want something, but something is forced upon me, and why it is so? When this "Why?" question will come to me, that is real thinking. Where is that thinking? These rascals, where is that thinking? How to check death, how to check disease, how to check old age. Where is that thinking? Where is that scientist? Who is making research how to stop death, who is making research how to stop disease? You can manufacture medicine for the disease, but you cannot check happening of disease. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Why pickpocketing? If I have to be punished as criminal, as thief, let me plunder the government treasury and then let me go to jail. So this is our policy. So if we have to submit to somebody, why not the best and perfect? That is our philosophy. You cannot avoid submission. That is not possible. Who is there who does not submit to anyone? Find out anyone. If you, if a man has nobody to submit, he brings a dog and submits to him. The dog is passing stool. He's standing. He's submitted to the dog. The dog is passing urine, he's submitting: "Yes sir, you pass your urine. I take care of you." This is the nature. If you do not submit to God, then ultimately you have to submit to the dog. This is nature. You cannot avoid it. You have to submit. There is no other way. Because your position is like that. Without submitting to one, you cannot live. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). This is the philosophy given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body. Now, within that body, Kṛṣṇa says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ, tathā dehāntaram (BG 2.13). There is dehinaḥ. There is a proprietor of this body. So that proprietor is 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair, very, very, small, atomic.
Prabhupāda: Suppose he knows the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Neither he can stop cancer, neither a man suffering from cancer, if it is cured, he will live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot check death. The death may be caused, if not cancer, simply by accident you can die. The real scientific research should be how to stop death. That is real scientific. That we are giving. To find out some medicine for some disease, that is not triumph. Real triumph is how to stop disease. That they cannot. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā puts before you the real trouble is this birth, death, old age and disease. That process we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more acceptance of material body.
Prabhupāda: Real knowledge is to be given to the younger section. Older section, it is not possible. They will have to forget first of all, what they have learned. That they cannot. Therefore it is impossible. Therefore knowledge begins from the school children, not from the man who is going to die. (laughing) That is not... Impractical. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān: (SB 7.6.1) "Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very childhood." Not that at the time of death. That is not possible. Therefore our students, they are all young generation, they capture. These rascals, they cannot. Old fools, they cannot. There was a practical examination. One father and one daughter, both appeared for BA examination in India. The daughter passed and the father failed. It was in the newspaper. In old age they cannot take any lessons. They forget.
Prabhupāda: Helped means you have helped to minimize their duration of life. Formerly man was living hundred years. Now they do not live more than sixty, seventy years. That you have helped certainly. What you have helped? A man is dying ordinarily, and you have created atomic energy. You can kill thousands of men. So you have helped only in dying. But you have not helped in living. That is not possible. Then what you have done? Some childish play? What you have done? You cannot stop death, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop disease, you cannot stop old age. So what you have done? Formerly people used to become old. Now also, they are becoming old. Formerly people used to die. They are dying now also. Formerly the people used to become diseased. They are becoming diseased. More diseased. More medicine. What you have helped? You have not helped anything in the improvement of the order of the world? What is that help?
Prabhupāda: Yes, "best of the asuras." Asura-varya. Varya means the best. And asura... Because his father was demon. So he was calling his father "demon number one." "My dear father, my dear asura-varya..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. "Anyone who has accepted this material body..." Dehinām, he has said. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. "They are all full of anxiety." Anyone. Not only human beings, even animals, birds, beasts. You'll see, when a bird is there, he'll always, that, "Some enemy may not come." Even animals. Even tiger is afraid, although he's so powerful. Elephant is afraid. sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Why? Asad-grahāt. "Because they have accepted this material body." Then what is the remedy? Now, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). "They should not be satisfied with the society, family and love and this and that. They should take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. Then they'll be happy." We are trying to be satisfied in this material condition, society, friendship, love and so forth, so on and we are after that. But there, there is no possibility. Unless you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, harim āśrayeta, there is no possibility. The whole world is trying to adjust things of the society, friendship, love and material atmosphere. That cannot be. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Self-situated. When you are self-situated... Just like in the water you are taking bath in a pool. Something has fallen on the water. Suppose your key has fallen. Now you'll have to find out. You are just trying to settle up the water and see where is the key. So when your mind and senses are controlled, then you can talk of Kṛṣṇa. Before that you cannot talk. Because Kṛṣṇa is missing, with uncontrolled mind, senses, you cannot capture Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. The same example. When the water is agitated, you cannot see where your things have fallen. You have to wait to make the water calm and quiet. Then you'll see, "Here is my key."
Student (2): What are the ways in which... How can we get to Kṛṣṇa? How do you get to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: A sacred place. Just like formerly those who were practicing yoga, they were going to Gaṅgotri where the Ganges is coming down, in the Himalaya, in the Haridwar, in a secluded, sacred place. These are the condition, first condition. So where you are getting these conditions fulfilled? You cannot practice yoga in a hotel or in a club. That is not possible.
Student (2): How do you decide whether a place is sacred or not?
Prabhupāda: Sacred place, generally we take as a lonely place, solitary place. If it is not solitary, it is not sacred.
Student (2): Is sacred the same as solitary?
Father Tanner: But is it possible... You know, the world one day will end, and physical bodies will end...
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible.
Father Tanner: The world will not end?
Prabhupāda: World will end. Yes.
Father Tanner: Yes. Now, I'm saying, when this time comes when all physical things end, will any of the spirits fail to reunite with the Godhead?
Prabhupāda: Now, when, as soon as he likes to reunite. That is... That depends on his liking and not liking.
Father Tanner: Hm. But would you admit that...
Prabhupāda: So that is, I am pointing out. Leadership,... God means "the leader." According to Vedic injunction, God means "the supreme leader." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief living entity. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). God means the Supreme Leader. So leader you have to accept. That is the conception of God. Either you select Buddha or Lenin or somebody else, you have to accept one leader and follow. That is your business. So our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He's the Supreme Leader. And we are to obey His orders. This is our philosophy. So if you do not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, if you obey the orders of Lord Buddha, or somebody obeys the orders of Lenin, the principle is there that you have to follow the orders of somebody. Now, you select Lenin, Kṛṣṇa or Buddha or Gandhi or anyone. That is a different thing. But the principle—to accept one leader and follow his leadership—is there everywhere. That nobody can change. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: I am coming, yes. (break) ...dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Such person, those who are fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, such person, after giving up this body, does not accept any more material body. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." So you cannot go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have your spiritual body. Because the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, they are all spiritual. So you cannot enter into fire unless you are fire. So you have to revive your spiritual body, spiritual consciousness. Then, after giving up this body, you enter the spiritual world. So Lord Buddha did not speak anything about the spiritual world, but his philosophy said that "Dismantle this material existence." Nirvāṇa. Nobody has preached that "You become happy here," either Lord Buddha or Lord Christ or Kṛṣṇa or anybody, Śaṅkara. Nobody. But modern materialistic people, they are thinking that "We can become happy by adjustment of our material condition." That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So you give... Yes. That is the... The only difference is that in human form of life you can awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the animal form... Here we are sitting with all human form of life, gentlemen, civilized men. I cannot call cats and dogs and sit here, and to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Therefore this opportunity should be given. This opportunity should be given. And especially, you are English nation, recognized, great nation, respectful, you are respected... Especially in India, we have got very good respect for English nation. We had connection for so many years. And the politicians, they spoiled. Otherwise, the, I, we liked the British Empire, means unity of the human being all over the world. That can be revived again. That can be revived again. If you come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, your Queen comes to that,... There is process. There is process. You can revive your British Empire.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I wanted to ask you that in your lectures you continually speak of the ten saṁskāras that children should have.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is not possible.
Paramahaṁsa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. It is very difficult. One saṁskāra, that initiation saṁskāra, and marriage saṁskāra-two, three saṁskāras, can be done, not the ten. It is not possible. Now the circumstances will not allow. It is very difficult.
Śyāmasundara: One thing that Malcolm and I were talking about before was that, he was lamenting that our educational system nowadays in the west, material education, practically spoils the child to understand spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: No, why not with Viṣṇu. Vaikuṇṭha is Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. That is also... But there Nārāyaṇa is worshiped with awe and veneration. He is God. No friendship as in Vṛndāvana. That is not possible. Vipralambha-sakhya. Aiśvarya, aiśvarya, opulence. There the Supreme Lord is taken in aiśvarya, opulences. Not aiśvarya-sthiti. In Vṛndāvana the devotees, they practically do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. "He is our very beloved friend." That's all. They doesn't care to know whether He is God or not. Here the conception of God. Vaikuṇṭha, "Oh, here is God," with awe and veneration, respect.
Prabhupāda: Our Vedas are not meant for the cats and dogs. All śāstras and scriptures and Vedas, they are meant for human being. So if human being remains on cats and dogs, how he can understand? If he voluntarily remains like the cats and dogs, then how he can understand the Vedas or Bible or Koran? He cannot. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). We have to become pure before understanding what is God. Therefore every civilized society has got a type of religion to become purified so that he can understand God. Without being purified, how it is possible? That is not possible. So at least these things should be accepted as they are in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not covet." Illicit sex life, intoxication, and killing of animals. These are in the Bible. Why they are not accepted? This is not our impositions. This is already there.
Prabhupāda: Just like people are trying to go to the moon planet. So if you prepare yourself, you haven't got to take a machine and go to the moon planet. You can go to the moon planet. That is stated in the śāstras. You can prepare yourself. That means transfer your, yourself to a body in the moon planet. You transfer yourself for a body in the sun planet. So there are innumerable planets. And there is a planet where Kṛṣṇa lives, or God lives, also. So if you like, you can transfer yourself to a body in Kṛṣṇa's planet. These are explained here. Simply you have to adopt the prescribed method. "By following this method, you transfer to such and such planet." "By following this method, you can transfer..." There is no need of taking this mechanical... That is not possible also. It is futile attempt. You cannot go by force. Because different planets, they have got different atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: No, basis... Now, suppose if a people in general, they are not advanced, by their votes, somebody is elected, he may not be also advanced. That is the defect of democracy. Mass of people, they are not advanced. So simply by their vote, if somebody is elected, then they will have to repent. Just like Nixon. He's elected, but these people are again decrying him, that "No, you are not good." So why do you, did you elect him? You elect, and again you reject. That is the defect of democracy. that people are not advanced. They can commit mistake, elect somebody wrong. And then they will lament. This is the defect. But monarchy, as it was approved by the Vedic culture, the monarchy, if the king is first-class, God conscious... A king should be like that. That is the ideal king. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā: rājarṣi. The king should be just like saintly person, although he's king. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He was rājarṣi. All the kings in those days, they were trained up in such a way that they were saintly persons, although they were the king. Not debauch. So one person, if he's authorized... Just like the communists, they are thinking of dictatorship. This is also another kind of dictatorship. But if the dictator, or the king, is a perfect man, then his dictatorship or royal power is quite... But that, that is not possible at the present moment.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible.
Lord Brockway: ...which is dictatorship. And even...
Prabhupāda: No, dictatorship, I told you...
Lord Brockway: And even a, a good dictatorship is a bad thing. I would rather have...
Prabhupāda: No, how good dictatorship can be a bad thing?
Lord Brockway: I would rather have people make mistakes when they had self-government than if you had a dictatorship which didn't make mistakes and imposed it's own...
Prabhupāda: That you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Arjuna. He was a kṣatriya, a warrior, but he acted on account of Kṛṣṇa. We are acting, but we are acting at the present moment for our sense gratification. Everyone is thinking that "If I do like this, it will give me great satisfaction." That is my sense gratification. I am acting for my satisfaction, not for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. So when we act for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, that is the perfection. Then we save the material pollution. This is the secret. Arjuna is a good example. Before fighting, he was thinking in terms of his own satisfaction. But when he understood Bhagavad-gītā and he agreed to act for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, then he became perfect. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that we do not say immediately to stop. Just like "Cars, Profits and Pollution," the very nice description of these three things. But there is no suggestion of remedy. That he does not know. If he suggested remedy, "Now stop all cars driving," or "Stop this nonsense business," that is impossible. That is craziness. So we do not say that you stop it. But we say, purify it. Just like there is pollution. So pollution is there. You cannot stop manufacturing cars or driving cars. That is not possible. But you can purify the pollution. That is possible.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. So everything should be done—that is called karma-yoga—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is doing. He did not change his position as a fighter, as a warrior. But he acted according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is recognized: bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). "You are My dear friend. You are My devotee." This is the process. So we have to purify. We cannot stop. That is not possible. The progress which is going on, let it go. But let it go, we do not want that, but it has come so far, it is not possible to stop it. But here is the remedy. You can purify it.
Popworth: What means do you suggest for purifying it?
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is rascaldom. We have divided already four classes of men. Even in Russia... Even in Russia, I have seen, they have created two classes, the worker class, the manager class. I have seen it. Yes. So you cannot say that everyone will do the same work. That is not possible. I have given already the example, the brain, the arms, the abdomen and the leg. The leg cannot do the work of brain. Leg can cooperate with the brain, but cannot do the work of brain. This is natural position.
Yogeśvara: He asks: In our society do these four divisions also exist?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then what it is meant for? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). "My dear boys, this body is meant for tapasya." Why tapasya? Your question. Yena śuddhyed. Your existence will be purified. Yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam. Then you'll get perpetual, blissful life. So everyone is seeking after blissful life, but that is not possible in this materialistic way of life. That is not possible. One must seek blissful life in spiritual understanding, brahma-saukhyam, brahma-sukha. That is required. Transcendental pleasure. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani. Satyānande, real happiness, in the spiritual understanding, spiritual platform. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate (CC Madhya 9.29). That kind of enjoyment is called rāma. Ramaṇa. From ramaṇa, rāma. That is wanted. So there is no education at the present moment. But people are hankering. Western people especially.
Prabhupāda: Now, I, when we were talking, I asked him one question, that "Professor Kotofsky, you are communist, I am Kṛṣṇite. So where is the difference of philosophy? Because you have to accept one authority, leader. So you have accepted Lenin as leader; we have accepted Kṛṣṇa as leader. So where is the difference on the principle?" So he could not answer. But he very much appreciated this, that "Where is the difference between these two principles." But now we have to consider whether the leadership of Lenin is good, or the leadership of Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But you have to accept one leader. You cannot do without leader. That is not possible.
Professor: Well, well, to some extent it's possible.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Darwin was a number-one nonsense. Yes. Rascal. He has confused the whole world.
Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Why...?
Prabhupāda: Evolution of matter. Matter cannot evolve. That is not possible.
Dr. Hauser: But evolution of life...
Prabhupāda: What is that life? That is different from matter. That is a different energy. That I am speaking. Matter is... Life is the origin of matter. The evolution is not of the matter, but of the life. That Darwin does not know. Therefore I say nonsense. He does not know that.
Dr. Hauser: Yes. But I feel in the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is nature's arrangement. And those who are rich... There are richer section when the rice was selling at three rupees per mound, and the richer section is still there when rice is selling, nine rupees a kilo. So they have no eyes because less intelligent. They cannot make equal. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, in the prakṛti there are three modes of material nature. They will be manifested. It is not possible to make everyone of the same standard, the standard must be different. So they are simply spoiling their time to make the whole society on the same status. The communists are trying, the others are trying. That is not possible. So one should not be disturbed with all these superficial low and high places.
Prabhupāda: He said that there is no God, but he's God. Just like the policeman sometimes cheats. He goes as a gambler, but he's a policeman. So that is another thing. Therefore if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you understand all these different activities. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. And you become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If anyone understands what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what His activity is, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you, after giving up this body, you haven't got to come again in this material world. Simply by studying Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are preaching, "Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...life is meant for to possess complete knowledge of the Supreme. That is perfection of knowledge. That is possible in the human form of life, not in the life of cats and dogs. That is not possible. So we have got this opportunity. If we spoil this life, living like cats and dogs, then we are missing the opportunity. This is the opportunity to understand Kṛṣṇa, God.
Prabhupāda: What is immediately pleasing to you, it will be a source of great displeasure at the end. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So uttamam. Uttamam. Ut means transcendental, and tama means this material world. "Beyond this material world," Uttama. Śreya uttamam. Because we are not this material body, therefore our śreyas, our highest perfection of life, is different. Here the perfection of life—you get a comfortable life of the body. That is not possible, however comfortably you may situate. You may be very rich man, you may have very rich connection or good apartment, but still, you cannot be happy because you are not this body. But they do not know. Therefore one should be inquisitiveness that "I want to be happy. I am arranging for my happiness with so many material paraphernalia, but still I am not happy." This inquiry should be there. That is called jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. And that is brahma-jijñāsā.
Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.
Banker: My question is how does one determine into which part he goes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is by tendency. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By the tendency. Therefore one has to approach the spiritual master. He will give direction that "This boy is meant for becoming a brāhmaṇa." Everyone has got some tendency. From the tendency it should be designated. Or by work.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I have already explained. There must be a class of men like me. They are called brāhmaṇa. They should help others. One who cannot rise so early, they will help him by his knowledge. He, the man who cannot rise early in the morning and cannot take the brahminical principle, śūdra, kṣatriya, vaiśya, he should be helped with the knowledge acquired by the brāhmaṇa. Just like the same example. The leg. Leg is not brain. The brain will give direction to the leg, "You go this side." Then it is perfect. The leg has no brain, but the brain is there. If he takes the advice of the brain and goes... Just like... It is called the logic of blind and lame. There is a lame man and there is a blind man. The lame man cannot walk, and the blind man cannot see. They should join. The blind man took the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man giving direction, and the blind man is going nicely. So by the cooperation of the blind and the lame, the work is done perfectly. Andha-kañjatā-nyāya. Similarly, it is not required that everyone has to become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible. So if the brāhmaṇa and the śūdra combine together, work, then both their lives will be perfect. Here you cannot expect everyone as brāhmaṇa, in this material world. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is existing. That is existing. Yes. That is... That is stated here in the Bhagavad...
Guest (1): But we can bring it down here with us.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not your servant, that you can bring it down. That is not possible.
Guest (1): Somebody has to work for it.
Prabhupāda: No, that is another, I mean to say, rascal proposition. You cannot bring that.
Guest (1): Somebody has to. Because the creation can be...
Prabhupāda: No, no. "Somebody has to," that is your theory. But that is not possible.
Guest (1): The creation is always unfolding, more and more, and becoming of more and more.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Creation is already there. Your knowledge is imperfect. You do not know what is that creation.
Guest (1): Few billion years before there was no human being living here.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That is rascaldom.
Guest (1): Hm?
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, that statement.
Guest (1): Is...?
Prabhupāda: Rascaldom.
Prabhupāda: So many inconveniences. (laughter) Vyasanad apy atra. Wherever you go, even though you found it is very convenient, very nice, you must know there is, there is inconvenience. Don't be so sure that it is full of nice things. No. That is not possible. Sarvatra vyasanad api. What is that?
Śrutakīrti: Fifteen minutes of water.
Prabhupāda: Oh... So you, you can get that connection disconnected now. Otherwise you're going...
Śrutakīrti: Yes. I could also connect over to here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. For the time being, you disconnect. Otherwise it will fall down.
Śrutakīrti: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. yes.
Śyāmasundara: But she won't listen if I preach to her.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not possible. That I know. You simply try to...
Śyāmasundara: Induce her to come.
Prabhupāda: Yes, to join us at least one day.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And accept the book, read it, at least the introductory portion, preface portion.
Śyāmasundara: I can show her politically how it would be advantageous for her to come. That much I can do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. But you cannot assimilate all the answers in one day. That is not possible. You see. You have many questions, but ask in many days, not in one day. Otherwise you will get indigestion. (laughter) You will not be able to... Simply you go on questioning, questioning, and don't take anything. That is no use. Take. Make one question. Try to understand. Adopt it in life. Then make another question. Don't take all the answers at a time and become suffering in dysentery. No. (laughter) Don't do that. That's alright. You cannot take one month's food in one hour. Can you take? So that's alright. Gradually. Your questions are nice, but don't take the answers all in a day. That will be not good. If you understand very easily, then you will forget very easily.
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot be. Because by karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement, karmaṇā, you have got this body. So you have to live within this body certain age. So if you change the body, new, that doesn't mean you prolong your life. That is not possible. It is the duration of life, that is considered. They are thinking by changing the heart they will increase the duration of life. That is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it is some sort of artificial transmigration?
Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. That transmigration taken... That is already explained in Bhagavad-gītā. Just like a baby becomes a child, child becomes boy, boy becomes youth, like that. Transmigration it is going on continually. This is another type of transmigration. So it is a fact that by changing the heart the duration is not...?
Prabhupāda: No, how can you check? There are so many living entities. They have come to this material world to enjoy. So the reproduction must go on. Just like you cannot stop the jail. You come out, but another is ready to enter it. That is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it is within this material platform that we develop the consciousness by which...
Prabhupāda: That was answered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. One of His devotee, Vāsudeva Datta, he said, "Sir, You have come. You take all the living entities of this universe and release them from this life. And if You think that they are so sinful, they cannot be, then give their all sins to me. But You take them." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Suppose if I take this universe, the all living entities, do you think the business will be finished?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Śrīla Prabhupāda gets into car) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only remedy. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam... (CC Adi 17.21). (break) And this advancement of material civilization means entrapping the entrapped. The living entity is already entrapped, and he is allured by farther entrapment. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava. Jaḍa-vidyā, material advancement of civilization, means expanding the influence of māyā. Why? Now anitya saṁsāra, cannot live here. You have to give up this place. But still, you are thinking to make it a permanent settlement. That is not possible. Everyone knows. He will not be allowed to stay. But still insisting, gorgeous arrangement, how we can be, how we can become immortal. The scientists bluffing, "Yes, you will become immortal. We are finding out the means." But he will die. That means he is ass. He is allured by these false words. Therefore he is ass. Jībake karaye gādhā.
Prabhupāda: No, nobody... In the material world there is no question of living forever. That is not possible. That is in the spiritual world.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the scientists explain why there are so many varieties of living entities, they have an explanation.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, "At the time of evolution, the cells, the genes, sometimes..." Normally the gene is perfectly copied for the next generation, but sometimes there is a mistake in copying. Just like in the printing press sometimes we do some mistakes. Just like that, there are some mistakes along the path of evolution. So those mistakes, sometimes they just, according to the circumstances, they can stand, and they form a different living entity because of the difference of the genes.
Prabhupāda: For some time he'll get away. You can get away from the police custody, but you cannot get away from māyā's custody. That is not possible.
Karandhara: But because in all material examples there are exceptions, they say. In all material examples there are exceptions, so they try to find that exception.
Prabhupāda: Many exceptions are there, mām eva ye prapadyante. Those who are devotee, they are not under māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you do not violate the laws of God... (break) ...there is no question of being... (break)...by māyā. If you surrender... (break) ...ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). (break) ...if the government protects everyone who is surrendered to the laws of the God, government. The government will give all protection. If he is a law-abiding citizen, he must be given protection, all protection.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are some theories now. By turning the temperature, by cooling down little more than the body temperature, you can live longer.
Prabhupāda: Well, you can live little longer, but you cannot live forever. That is not possible.
Umāpati: They're freezing the body now, Prabhupāda, in the hopes that sometime in the future science will be able to make them come back to life.
Prabhupāda: That is all future. That is all future.
Hṛdayānanda: They take so much money for it.
Prabhupāda: It is not practical.
Prabhupāda: Not faith, practical.
Karandhara: Initially it must be, there must be faith in the guru.
Prabhupāda: Practical. If you want to learn something, you must to go the expert. That is not faith; it is a fact. You cannot learn anything by yourself. That is not possible.
Bali Mardana: If someone is actually sincere, can he be cheated or will he always get a bona fide guru?
Prabhupāda: No, if he is sincere he'll get. Yes. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Guru and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is within you. As soon as He sees that you are sincere, He'll give you the right person.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: For some time, for some time.
Prabhupāda: For sometimes every thief flourishes. That is another thing. But he must be punished.
Devotee: Hmm. He was punished.
Prabhupāda: You can cheat for some time everyone, but you cannot be allowed to cheat everyone for all the time. That is not possible. (break) ...law. Therefore Lord Rāmacandra could create millions of Sītā. So the purpose was to kill this atheist. Therefore, it was... (end)
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, I can go on speculating for millions of years. Still, my knowledge is imperfect. So we cannot manufacture God; neither we can speculate. That is not possible. But you can get some idea, but there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge of God. God is unlimited. I am limited. So my speculative knowledge is limited. So how I can understand the unlimited by my limited knowledge? That is not possible. We can make little progress, and that is impersonal understanding. The perfect understanding is that He is person, all-powerful, all-mighty, all beautiful, all-wise, all..., everything perfect, six opulences: riches, strength, influence, beauty, knowledge and renouncement. These are the six opulences. And God is complete. This is conception of God.
Prabhupāda: Not that one has to live underneath a tree, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī. That is not possible in this age. That is the continuation of my Guru Mahārāja, that if one is sincere he can remain a first-class devotee even in this material opulence. And if he would not have introduced, then it was not possible to come here and preach this gospel. That because the principle was to live underneath a tree, go to Vṛndāvana, and have loincloth, just like the bābājīs are imitating. No. Even in full material opulence we can become a perfect devotee, provided you follow the principles. It doesn't matter. Gṛhe vā... It was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura long ago. Gṛhe vā banete ṭhāke. Either you live in the forest or in the city, opulent city, the business is gaurāṅga bole rākhe: always thinking of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama māge tarsan.(?) Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I want their association, who is a devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga." It doesn't matter whether he lives in the forest or in the opulent city.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then how you can think of it? Why do you question this?
Umāpati: Well, because God's inconceivable. I just...
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. He is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). He is accepting the different types of bodies, but he is eternal. One body finished. That does not mean he is finished. He is transferred to another body according to his desire. He is never finished. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Yaśomatīnandana: Avināśi tu tad viddhi.
Prabhupāda: You are boss of your body in the sense that you can utilize your body in any manner you like, so much. But there are other condition which is beyond your... Suppose... so long you are living, you can utilize your body, your senses, to understand the ultimate goal of life. But you cannot utilize your life in such a way that you will never die. That is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I am controlled also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why don't you understand that? You are controlled always. (break) You are walking. This is also controlled. At any moment you can be paralyzed, at any moment.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So even I am not the boss of my body, then?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is said. Why don't you read Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: He is being pulled by the ear, by material nature, but he is, rascal, thinking that "I am the boss." This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. Did you not read this? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Puffed up in false egotism, he is thinking that he is boss. That is illusion. He is not boss. But he is thinking he is boss. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. One who is thinking that "I am boss," he is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha. By false egotism and being a rascal, he is thinking like that. And because everyone is under that impression, therefore we say generally, "Rascal. Rascal." People may be amazed, "Why this gentleman says everyone rascal?" But prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni, vimūḍhātmā. Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Anyone who is thinking that he is boss, he's a rascal." (break) ...Scientists struggle is that he wants to stop the action of prakṛti, nature. That is his foolishness. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: When? Guru or... First of all, try to understand what is the meaning of guru. Guru means heavy. So one who knows more than you, or one who knows perfectly, that, he is guru. So if you know anything perfectly, then you are guru. But if you do not know anything perfectly, then you are not a guru. You are rascal. So guru means one who knows perfectly. So if you find out somebody, that he knows everything perfectly, then he is guru. That is the first prayer of Gurvaṣṭaka. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. Everyone is in the blazing fire of this material existence. It is just like forest fire. Just like if there is fire in the forest, all the inhabitants of forest, all the animals, they become so much in perturbed condition. So guru means to rescue from this forest fire. So therefore it is said, ghanāghanatvam. A forest fire can be reduced or can be extinguished... Fire, there must be water. But wherefrom the water will come? Your fire brigade, bucket full of water, will not save. The water must come from cloud. So therefore guru is the cloud. He has taken the mercy from the ocean, or from God, and he pours the mercy. Immediately the fire is extinguished, and you are saved. This is the saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya... **. One who has received mercy from the Supreme, he can save. Nobody can save. Your so-called fire brigade bucket or bucket full of water will not save. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you answer them, "Yes, you become a dog, but you become a dog of a good master." What is the use of becoming dog of another dog? Then what profit will be there? Is it not? We are... Actually every one of us is dog. And we are trying to satisfy so many masters. The masters are our senses. We are already dog, everyone, because everyone is servant of the senses, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. So everyone is dog. Now he has to remain a dog, but by becoming dog of these senses, he is not happy. Find out a good master, and become a dog. You become happy. This is our philosophy. And the best master is Kṛṣṇa. We are also trying to be dog, but not of another dog, but real master. That is our philosophy. What is the use of becoming a dog of another dog? That is not proper. Here the material world is that "I am dog, I have got a master, and the master has got another master. He has got another master, he has got another master." Nobody can say that "I am Absolute." Nobody can say. That is not possible.
| Page Title: | That is not possible (Conversations 1968 - 1973) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 02 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=125, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 125 |