Surgical

Expressions researched:
"surgery" |"surgical" |"surgically"

BG Chapters 1 - 6

BG 2.21, Purport:

In Manu-saṁhitā, the lawbook for mankind, it is supported that a murderer should be condemned to death so that in his next life he will not have to suffer for the great sin he has committed. Therefore, the king's punishment of hanging a murderer is actually beneficial. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa orders fighting, it must be concluded that violence is for supreme justice, and thus Arjuna should follow the instruction, knowing well that such violence, committed in the act of fighting for Kṛṣṇa, is not violence at all because, at any rate, the man, or rather the soul, cannot be killed; so for the administration of justice, so-called violence is permitted. A surgical operation is not meant to kill the patient, but to cure him. Therefore the fighting to be executed by Arjuna at the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is with full knowledge, so there is no possibility of sinful reaction.

SB Canto 3

SB 3.31.11, Purport:

It is said that when a woman is having labor pains she promises that she will never again become pregnant and suffer from such a severely painful condition. Similarly, when one is undergoing some surgical operation he promises that he will never again act in such a way as to become diseased and have to undergo medical surgery, or when one falls into danger, he promises that he will never again make the same mistake. Similarly, the living entity, when put into a hellish condition of life, prays to the Lord that he will never again commit sinful activities and have to be put into the womb for repeated birth and death. In the hellish condition within the womb, the living entity is very much afraid of being born again, but when he is out of the womb, when he is in full life and good health, he forgets everything and commits again and again the same sins for which he was put into that horrible condition of existence.

SB Canto 4

SB 4.28.4, Purport:

The nostrils are blocked by mucus, and one has to always sniff a medicinal bottle containing ammonia. Similarly, the mouth, too weak to chew, requires false teeth. The rectum also gives one trouble, and the evacuation process becomes difficult. Sometimes one has to take enemas and sometimes use a surgical nozzle to accelerate the passing of urine. In this way the city of Purañjana was attacked at various gates by the soldiers. Thus in old age all the gates of the body are blocked by so many diseases, and one has to take help from so many medicines and surgical appliances.

SB 4.29.71, Purport:

When a person is in deep sleep or when he has fainted, he forgets his gross body. Similarly, under chloroform or some other anesthetic, the living entity forgets his gross body and does not feel pain or pleasure during a surgical operation. Similarly, when a man is suddenly shocked by some great loss, he forgets his identification with the gross body. At the time of death, when the temperature of the body rises to 107 degrees, the living entity falls into a coma and is unable to identify his gross body. In such cases, the life air that moves within the body is choked up, and the living entity forgets his identification with the gross body. Because of our ignorance of the spiritual body, of which we have no experience, we do not know of the activities of the spiritual body, and in ignorance we jump from one false platform to another.

SB Canto 7

SB 7.2.37, Purport:

In the Mahābhārata it is said, adarśanād ihāyātaḥ punaś cādarśanaṁ gataḥ. This statement could support the theory of the atheistic scientist that the child in the womb of the mother has no life but is simply a lump of matter. To follow this theory, if the lump of matter is aborted by a surgical operation, no life is killed; the body of a child is like a tumor, and if a tumor is operated upon and thrown away, no sin is involved. The same argument could be put forward in regard to the King and his queens. The body of the King was manifested from an unmanifested source, and again it became unmanifested from manifestation. Since the manifestation exists only in the middle—between the two points of unmanifestation—why should one cry for the body manifested in the interim?

CC Antya-lila

CC Antya 16.29, Purport:

We have seen that a person who is not the son of a doctor and has not attended a medical college is sometimes able to practice medicine. By practical knowledge of how to perform a surgical operation, how to mix medicine and how to give certain medicines for certain diseases, a person can receive a certificate and be registered as a medical practitioner in the practical field. He can do a medical man's work and be known as a doctor. Although qualified medical men may consider him a quack, the government will recognize his work. Especially in India, there are many such doctors who perform their medical services perfectly. They are accepted even by the government. Similarly, if one is engaged in brahminical service or occupational duties, he must be considered a brāhmaṇa despite the family in which he is born. That is the verdict of all the śāstras.

Krsna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead

Krsna Book 78:

Moreover, You are not satisfied by killing my friend; I know that You want to kill me also. Because of Your determination, I must kill You by tearing You to pieces with my club. Kṛṣṇa, although You are my relative, You are foolish. You are our greatest enemy, so I must kill You today just as a person removes a boil on his body by a surgical operation. I am always very much obliged to my friends, and I therefore consider myself indebted to my dear friend Śālva. I can liquidate my indebtedness to him only by killing You.”

As the caretaker of an elephant tries to control the animal by striking it with his trident, Dantavakra tried to control Kṛṣṇa simply by speaking strong words. After finishing his vituperation, he struck Kṛṣṇa on the head with his club and made a roaring sound like a lion, but Kṛṣṇa, although struck strongly by the club of Dantavakra, did not move even an inch, nor did He feel any pain.

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Lecture on BG 1.28-29 -- London, July 22, 1973:

So dṛṣṭvā imaṁ svajanam. Arjuna is a great warrior, fighter, and for a kṣatriya to kill one is not very difficult task. The kṣatriyas are trained up. Hunting. Hunting is allowed for the kṣatriyas. Just like medical practitioners, they are trained up how to practice surgical operation on dead body. It is not possible to, of course, for a gentleman, to push knife in someone's body. It is naturally very difficult thing. Rogues and thieves, they can stab. So as the doctors, medical men, surgeons are trained up to operate their knife on the dead body to see where are the nerves, similarly, kṣatriyas are also allowed for being trained how to kill. Kṣatriya means... Kṣat. Kṣat means injury. And tra means trāyate, saves. A kṣatriya has to save the citizens from being injured by others. He is called kṣatriya. Brāhmaṇa means one who knows brahma, the supreme. So brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. These divisions are there according to quality. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By guṇa. Guṇa means quality.

Lecture on BG 2.17 -- London, August 23, 1973:

There is no birth and death. So when this body is annihilated, so the soul remains unconscious for a period, seven months for a human being. Seven months unconscious stage within the womb of the mother. After seven months, the consciousness revives. Just like if you have got an experience under chloroform, unconsciousness. The surgical operation takes place, you do not understand, you do not perceive pains and pleasure, but you remains for a certain hours unconscious. Then, gradually, dream comes. Just, from unconsciousness the dream comes. And from dream, you are awakened. As you go down from awakening stage to dream, dream to unconsciousness, similarly, you come up also, from unconsciousness to dream, from dream to awakening conscious stage.

Lecture on BG 2.20-25 -- Seattle, October 14, 1968:

Viṣṇujana: "...the lawbook for mankind, it is supported that a murderer should be condemned to death so that in his next life he will not have to suffer for the great sin he has committed. Therefore the king's punishment of hanging a murderer is actually beneficial. Similarly when Kṛṣṇa orders fighting, it must be concluded that violence is for the supreme justice, and as such, Arjuna should follow the instruction, knowing well that such violence committed in the act of fighting for justice is not at all violence. Because at any rate the man, or rather, the soul, cannot be killed. For the administration of justice, so-called violence is permitted. A surgical operation is not meant to kill the patient, but is for his cure. Therefore the fighting to be executed by Arjuna under the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is with full knowledge, and so there is no possibility of sinful reaction."

Prabhupāda: This is the distinction between violence and nonviolence. People are very much advocate of nonviolence, but they are committing, according to their estimation, they are committing every moment violence. But from higher standard there is practically no violence and the things which apparently appear to be violence, if it is properly executed... Just like under the order of high-court judge, one body is being executed. So that is not violence. A justice of higher order is not meant for committing violence. It is justice. Similarly, when, under the direction of the supreme justice, Kṛṣṇa, anything is done, apparently, although it appears violence, it is not violence. It is justice. This is to be understood. Go on.

Lecture on BG 2.49-51 -- New York, April 5, 1966:

Now, suppose even there is no loss by falling down from this path, that does not mean that we should neglect it. No. Formerly, in Medical College of Calcutta the students who failed in the final examination, they were given some title, L.M.S., "License in Medical, Medicine and Surgery," L.M.S. And those who passed, they were given the title M.D. or M.D., just like that way. So even by failure, they would get some title and allowed to practice as medical man. But that does not mean that we may try to fail also. No. The aim should be to become successful, not to fail, not to fail. Even though we are in failure, still, there is profit undoubtedly, but we should not aim to that objective. We should, we should be determined that in this very life we must have a spiritual realization perfectly so that, as you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya.

Lecture on BG 4.1 -- Montreal, August 24, 1968:

Therefore these senses, when they will be purified, then we can understand. Just like a man cannot see due to some cataract complication, but if the cataract portion is surgically operated, he can see also. Treatment. Similarly, it is said in the śāstras that ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Our senses are very imperfect. That we can understand. For example, we are daily seeing the sun globe, but our experience is just like a disc because my eyes cannot see things placed in long distance, neither can see which is very near. Just like the eyelid is just attached to the eye, but I cannot see. This is imperfect. Neither we can see very close, neither we can see very long distance point, neither we can see in darkness. There are so many conditions. If those conditions are fulfilled, then our senses can act. Therefore it is to be understood that our senses are imperfect.

Lecture on BG 4.10 -- Vrndavana, August 2, 1974:

Therefore we have to practice tapasya, penance. Simple thing: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is tapasya, voluntarily accepting... Those who are practiced to all these bad habits... So they will feel some pain, but you accept that pain. Then this pain will be over, this material pain. Just like sometimes for curing some disease the doctor says that injection or surgical operation. That is painful, but to cure the disease we should accept that thing. Similarly, if you want to become free from this material body, then you should accept, accept this pain. This is not pain. It is simply imagination. Actually, it is pleasure.

So... Because we have no knowledge, therefore jñāna-tapasā. And if there is knowledge and if there is tapasya, penance, then pūtā, purified. You become purified. Therefore it is said, bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Then you come back to home, back to Godhead.

Lecture on BG 4.37-40 -- New York, August 21, 1966:

Just like when the disease is cured, when disease is... Just like you have got some boil in the boil, in the hand or some part of your body, and the physician says, "It is... It has to be surgically operated," now, with faith, you undergo the surgical operation, and during the operation it may seem very severe. You may be feeling very severely, but when the pusses are out and it is bandaged, oh, you'll feel relief. "Oh, my dear physician, you have done a great deal of progress." You are engaged. But when the operation was going on, you was in hell.

So this is the point. With faith, you have to accept the formula, and we have to execute it. But if you do it... Because the authority is there. We are keeping our faith not to a third-class person. To the supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa.

Lecture on BG 7.11-16 -- New York, October 7, 1966:

We are under threefold miseries here in this material world. Always we are suffering by these threefold miseries: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, and adhidaivika, threefold miseries. Some miseries are pertaining to this body and mind. Just like one of our students—all of a sudden, he has got some aches and he has to undergo surgical operation. So this is going on. Something misery are due to the body, something miserable due to the mind, something miserable due to the nature. All of a sudden, it becomes very cold. All of a sudden, it becomes very hot, warm. Nature. All of a sudden, there is great snowfall. All of sudden, there is earthquake. So many miseries, due to nature, due to body, due to mind, and due to other living entities. Oh, somebody attacks me with dagger. A tiger attacks me with his jaws. So many difficulties, miseries in every step. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām (SB 10.14.58).

Lecture on BG 16.6 -- Hawaii, February 2, 1975:

Therefore it is said, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). If you speculate your senses to find out where is God, where is the soul... The doctors are daily operating, heart operation, and so many finer, finer surgical operation, but they cannot find out where is the soul. But soul is there. That we can perceive. When the soul goes away from the body, we can understand, "Now the soul has gone; the body is dead." So you can perceive; you cannot see. It is not understandable by speculating your gross senses. You cannot... If you want to see what is mind, what is intelligence, what is soul, what is Supersoul, that is not possible to see by your these blunt eyes, conditional eyes. Everyone is very proud of his senses. Somebody says, "Can you show me God?" But have you got the power to see God first of all? So these things are not very intelligent questions and answer.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

Lecture on SB 1.5.15 -- New Vrindaban, June 19, 1969:

So what is the distinction? Now, after passing, after regularly attending the class, say, five or six years, if one passes the examination, he takes the title M.D., Doctor of Medicine, or something like that. And if he fails, then he is given the title L.M.S., Licensed in Medical, Medicine and Surgery. So after studying in medical college for the regular years, five or six years, so even if he fails, he is recognized, but not to the standard of that passed medical man, but he is given license: "All right, if you don't wish to study more, you get the license to practice." License. Similarly, a devotee, a person in devotional service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if he falls down by some reason or other, without being mature, then he has, he's not in loss.

He says, Nārada Muni says, that evaṁ tāvat tat karma-karmādi anartha-hetutva taṁ vihāya harer līlāiva bandhaniya tam.(?) Therefore everyone should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Lecture on SB 1.8.25 -- Vrndavana, October 5, 1974:

"That I'll not have to take birth again. So let there be dangers always so that I can see You again and again so that this business of taking birth and death again and again be finished."

Just like you have got a dangerous boil. You are applying so many medicines, but it is not curable. The doctor says, "You have to go, surgical operation. So that will be very troublesome, vipada. But a intelligent person will say, "Yes, you do it so that this trouble may be finished." So Kuntī wants that "Again and again, all these dangers may be repeated so that we can think of You, we can see You, so that no more this life of repetition..." But these people, they do not know. This is the real unhappiness. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). This rascal civilization, they do not know. They are taking risk of again and again taking birth.

Lecture on SB 1.15.35 -- Los Angeles, December 13, 1973:

That is practical. Just like the seed, the living soul, for changing his body, he is put into the semina of a male. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). This is the process of changing body. Daiva-netreṇa. This is being how you have to change your body. That is not under your control. After your death you are unconscious. Just like when you are on a surgical operational table you are completely under the surgeon. He puts you on the table, you unconscious, and he is operating as he likes. You don't protest. Similarly, we have got three condition. This is awakened stage we are talking, but at night we dream. That is called svapna stage, dreaming stage. And there is another stage, when you don't dream, you are simply unconsciousness. If somebody has gone surgical operation he might have experienced that completely unconscious. So then dream comes. When you come to consciousness from unconsciousness, you come to dreaming condition. From dreaming condition you come to this awakened stage. Similarly, you go from this awakened stage to dreaming condition and from dreaming condition to unconsciousness.

Lecture on SB 1.15.35 -- Los Angeles, December 13, 1973:

So as in the unconscious stage surgical operation takes place, you have no hand in it, you simply do not know what is happening, similarly, you are creating a condition of next life by your karma. Just like a clerk in a big establishment, he is creating situation by his work whether he will be promoted to a higher official position or he'll be degraded or he'll be (indistinct). He is creating. Similarly, we are creating our next life. This life is a chance for creating next life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body. But that depends on your work. It is not the, na kaśca(?) (indistinct) karma. This karma is not created by Kṛṣṇa, or God. You create your karma. You like this. Somebody wants to come here and somebody does not want to come. That independence is there. That independence is; otherwise there are millions of people here in Los Angeles. Who is coming here? Nobody. Because they are not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Lecture on SB 1.15.35 -- Los Angeles, December 13, 1973:

So this is the position. You create a situation of your own. Just like when the surgical operation, you have got a boil, then you... You have created by contamination, and the surgeon is simply operating. He has not created that situation. Similarly your transference to another body is not God's creation, it is your creation. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, you have seen. Why one is born in low-grade family, one is born high-grade family, one is born animal, one is born human being, one is born as demigod? Why? What is the cause? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Kāraṇam. The cause is as he has infected the modes of material nature. The material nature is going on in three modes, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. It is up to you if you associate with tamo-guṇa, then you become next life animal or tree or fish. There are so many degraded condition. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ (BG 14.18). Those who are in the darkness modes of material nature, they go down, adhaḥ. Adho gacchanti, degraded.

Lecture on SB 2.3.17 -- Los Angeles, July 12, 1969:

Everyone was afraid: "Let the things remain there. One who has lost his thing, he will come and take away. We don't require to take it." So the kings were very severe to punish unwanted social elements. So the kings were therefore allowed sometimes to hunt in the jungle to practice killing. Just like doctors are allowed to practice surgical operation on dead body; otherwise, how they'll practice, how they'll become surgeon, if they do not practice? Similarly, only the kings were allowed to kill some animal in the jungle sometimes.

So this Parīkṣit Mahārāja was hunting, and when he became tired and thirsty he entered in the hermitage home of a sage. Because in those days in the jungles there were many hermitages. Those who wanted to live secluded life in the jungle, in the forest, they would have their home, very small cottage, and their means of living was milk and fruit. They would get fruits from the trees, and the kings would sometimes contribute some cows. So that was sufficient for them.

Lecture on SB 3.12.19 -- Dallas, March 3, 1975:

Therefore, to get that freedom, you have to work for it. Freedom does not come so automatically. Just like you are diseased. You are under the control of fever or some other painful condition, under some disease. So you have to undergo some penance. Just like you are suffering from some boil on the body. It is very painful. Then, in order to cure it, you have to undergo the surgical operation if you want to be cured. Therefore tapasā. That is tapasā. Tapa means painful condition, tapa. Just like temperature. If you are put into high temperature, 110 degree, then it is very intolerable for you. It is very painful. Even for us Indians—we are born in India, tropical climate—still, when the temperature is more than hundred, it becomes intolerable. And what to speak of you? You are born in a different temperature. Similarly, we cannot tolerate lower temperature. If it is below fifty degree, it is intolerable for us. So there are different climates, different temperature.

Lecture on SB 3.25.19 -- Bombay, November 19, 1974:

This is called nirvāṇa theory. No more existence. We are suffering pains and pleasure... Pains. There is no pleasure. Pleasure means accepting another type of pain. I am suffering... Just like there is boil on your body. This is suffering. And to cure it, another suffering, surgical operation. So it is going on like that. Actually, there is no pleasure. There is only pain.

So the Buddhist theory is to dismantle this construction, and then there is no more sense of pains and... The Māyāvādī theory also like that, that "Activities, because they are material activities, therefore there are sufferings. So the material activities, they are false. You simply understand yourself, that you are Brahman, and no more activities, stop all activities, Brahman realization..." Their example is given that if you take an empty pitcher and you put into the water, so long it is not filled up, there will be some sound: "bud-bud-bud-bud-bud-bud."

Lecture on SB 3.25.23 -- Bombay, November 23, 1974:

That is called jīvan mukta. Jīvan mukta means although he is in this body, but he is not suffering the bodily miserable condition. It is a question of absorption of thought. I have read in some paper that Mr. Stalin, the communist leader, he had to undergo a surgical operation of operating on the belly. But doctor wanted to, what is called, chloroform, but he said, "No, there is no need. You can go on with your operation." So even in ordinary life it is possible. Because the mind is absorbed in a different way, even a surgical operation does not disturb a man. Similarly, what to speak of spiritual life, if your mind is always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa thought, Kṛṣṇa consciousness... That is stated mad-gata-cetasaḥ, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa advises also. What is His advice? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "You always think of Me."

Lecture on SB 3.25.24 -- Bombay, November 24, 1974:

Just like we advise, "No illicit sex, no intoxication, even up to smoking biḍi and taking tea." So one who is accustomed to these habits, for him to give up immediately these things, it becomes a little painful. Therefore one has to become tolerant, "Never mind. I will have to become free." Just like to become cured from some disease, we agree to undergo surgical operation although it is very painful, tolerate; similarly, we have to learn toleration although there will be some pain. That is called titikṣavaḥ.

At the same time we have to become kāruṇikāḥ, taking compassion on the fallen souls. We have to go from country to country, town to town, city to city, village to village, to enlighten them to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is sādhu's duty. Those who are preachers, they are better sādhu than those who have gone to Himalaya.

Lecture on SB 5.5.19 -- Vrndavana, November 7, 1976:

You do not know what is the form of the Lord because your present senses are imperfect. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam idriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136)—the Lord's name, His form, His pastimes—na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ—our present senses are unable to conceive. Just like the soul is there within the body but nobody can see where is that soul, similarly, God is also within this body but nobody can see. It is specifically mentioned, īśvaraḥ sarva bhūtānām hṛd deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). The Lord is situated in everyone's heart, but find out the heart, where is God. There is, but you cannot see. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Present senses are unable to see. You have to prepare your eyes. Just like with cataract you cannot see anything. You have to undergo surgical operation. Then you will see. That surgical operation process is bhakti.

Lecture on SB 5.5.34 -- Vrndavana, November 21, 1976:

These are bodily conception of life. One who forgets this bodily conception of life, he is liberated. So how we can forget bodily conception of life? It can be forgotten. Just like one big person Sometimes we have seen practically. We have, of course, heard, we have not seen, that Mr. Stalin, the great Communist leader, he was to undergo a surgical operation of the intestine. So the physician, the doctor, surgeon, he wanted to give him anaesthetic, chloroform. He refused: "There is no need of. Let the operation go on. I shall see what is there within the belly." Strong-minded, here, even in material conception, he was, he undergo, underwent the surgical operation without any chloroform. So that is possible. If one is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he has no more bodily conception of life. That is not to be imitated. It is on the highest stage it is possible to forget completely, and he is liberated. Deha-smṛti nāhi yāra saṁsāra bandhana kāhāṅ tāra. He is no more conditioned by the material nature.

Lecture on SB 6.1.6-8 -- New York, July 21, 1971:

Exactly like when you go to consult a physician, he prescribes a nice medicine or costly medicine, according to the gravity of the disease. If you have simply some headache, he may prescribe you something like aspirin. But if you have got something else, very severe, he immediately prescribes that "It has to be surgically operated, and the expenditure will be one thousand dollars." (laughter)

So similarly, this is also diseased condition, to... (aside:) Don't... Down. Atonement, the sinful life, this is also diseased condition. Just like we have accepted this chain of birth and death. This is diseased condition of the soul. The soul has no birth and death, no disease. Because it is spirit soul. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate: "Soul has no birth." Na mriyate: "It has no death." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "Soul is eternal," śāśvataḥ, "existing everlasting. Don't think that it is lost along with the dissolution of this body.

Lecture on SB 7.6.8 -- Vrndavana, December 10, 1975:

Actually there is no man cutting my head—my head is there—still, I am suffering by such thoughts. This is called moha. Actually there is no fact, but on account of being entangled in three stages of pollution... The pollution is that intelligence. The intelligence is polluted in three ways: jāgriti, svapna, and suṣupti. Jāgriti means just like we are now awakened; we are not sleeping. This is one stage. And another stage, at night when you go to sleep, and you sleep with dream, that is another stage. And another stage is suṣupti, so deeply, just like when a man is intoxicated or chloroform during surgical operation, he does not understand that "Surgical instruments are being applied on my body." He remains silent. This is another stage. So these three stages are there for polluting our intelligence.

Lecture on SB 7.7.22-26 -- San Francisco, March 10, 1967:

Suṣuptiḥ. Just like our death. What is this death? Death means a sound sleep for seven months. That's all. A sound sleep for seven months. As soon as I give up this body, I enter into another body in sound sleep. And sound sleep, just like you are sleeping sound, somebody is taking you away to another place. You do not know. I have got experience. I have got, underwent some, some surgical operation. So I was under chloroform. So I did not know when I was operated, when I was in the operation table, then who brought me again to my bed. And in this way I did not... But when gradually I got my consciousness, I remember still, that I am sleeping, and then I am dreaming. Then I come to consciousness, active consciousness. This is the position.

So there are three stages. So when you are very sound sleep, you do not know what is happening, but you are still there. You are not dead. Therefore soul is never dead, even it is unconscious. Just remember this chloroformic condition.

Lecture on SB 7.9.17 -- Mayapur, February 24, 1976:

So although the agreement is a remedial measure, but come to the agreement is very, very difficult. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says this remedial measure, auṣadha, is still more troublesome. When there was enmity, that is troublesome. Just like when there is some disease, something—you have got a boil in your body—it is painful, but when you take the remedial measure, surgical operation, it is still more painful, still more. You have to take anesthetic, chloroform, because it is more painful. So anywhere there is fight, there is enmity, and if you want to settle up, it is more troublesome. So duḥkhauṣadhaṁ tad api duḥkham. The remedial measure is more troublesome than the disease, than the painful condition.

Duḥkhauṣadhaṁ tad api duḥkham atad-dhiyāham. Atat. Atat means untruth, flickering, not... Atad-dhiyāham. We do not know what is our identification. Misunderstanding. Dehātma-buddhi. Asad-grahāt. Atat, asat, the same thing.

Lecture on SB 7.9.24 -- Mayapur, March 2, 1976:

"What is your age?" he'll decrease it. He'll say... He is eighty years old, he'll say, "I am sixty years" or "sixty-five." That means he wants to live for long duration of life. That is the intention. Nobody wants to die. But still... They cannot do anything. Still, they are trying. One Marwari gentleman, at the age of seventy or eighty years old, he went to somewhere in Germany for undergoing surgical operation of the gland so that he can continue his sex life. Many monkeys are exported from India to Western countries for taking away the sexual glands, they know, hormone or something like, and replace it to man so that in old age they can enjoy sex. Perhaps you know all these things. So this attempt is going on, how to keep young and how to enjoy life. But nature will not allow. You may try your best. Nature's law is there. They forget that. And nature will not allow us to live here or to remain as young for all the years of life. It is not possible. But they're trying for that.

Nectar of Devotion Lectures

The Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, October 26, 1972:

Our senses are materially contaminated. Therefore we cannot directly perceive by using our present senses what is Kṛṣṇa. So it has to be purified.

Just like eyes. When it is suffering from the disease, cataract, you cannot see properly. But the, if the, by surgical operation, the cataract is moved, the eyes become purified, you can see. That is also stated in Brahma-saṁhitā:

premāñjana-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

yam śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.38)

Premāñjana-cchurita. You have to collect the ointment of love for Kṛṣṇa. And if you apply that ointment on your eyes, then... Just like we use surma (?) for clear vision, similarly, when the love of Kṛṣṇa surma is applied on the eyes, these eyes, you'll see Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.

General Lectures

Lecture -- Seattle, October 11, 1968:

Yes. It is artificial. You are already artificially complicated by your, this body, because you have got this body. And you want to make yourself more complicated? And do you mean to say that is advancement? You have to get free. So just like in order to get free from a type of disease one has to take proper medicine and proper diet, similarly, in order to get out of this material contamination, you have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the medicine. And you have to take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, the diet. The disease will be cured. Simple method. And it is practically seen. When these boys came to me first, from that time and this time, their face has changed so much. And what I am giving them? These fruits, Kṛṣṇa prasāda, that's all, and chanting. Their mind, their face, their activity, their habit, their character—everything has changed. But what is the process? This medicine and this diet. That's all. There is no surgical operation. It is very simple. You take to it and you see the result. Yes?

Lecture at St. Pascal's Franciscan Seminary -- Melbourne, June 28, 1974:

A spiritually advanced devotee of the Lord, he sees the trees or the animals or the stone or the anything he sees—he sees that it is the energy of God. Nā dekhe tāra mūrti. Just like your mūrti or my mūrti—mūrti means form—may be little different, but we are made of the same ingredients. If your body surgically operated, the same blood, stone, or bone, or flesh, everything is there the same because same ingredients. Similarly, our outward covering is covered by these material elements, but inside, within this, there is the spirit soul. Therefore one who is advanced, he does not see that "This is cat, this is dog, this is man, this is elephant, and this is brāhmaṇa, this is this..." No. He sees the soul, that "Here is the soul, part and parcel of God." That is his vision. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). So that is God realization. God is spirit, Supreme Spirit, and he is part and parcel, the living entities. That is real vision. Paṇḍitāḥ. Paṇḍitāḥ means learned.

Philosophy Discussions

Philosophy Discussion on Sigmund Freud:

Prabhupāda: You are going to be again (indistinct). Why you forget Kṛṣṇa? After this life, you will be put in another womb of mother, so that the same thing will again happen. You are not finishing your business, so therefore it is the duty of guru and father and mother to save him from that situation again. Pitā na sa syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. So that is the opportunity of this human life. They should know that I had such-and-such bad experience. (indistinct), I will also experience the same thing again at the time of death, horrible situation. Again after, again enter, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You have to again take birth in the womb. The same situation is repeating. You may forget. That is another thing. Just like you had some surgical operation in your body. That was very painful. So even if you have forgotten, that does not guarantee that there will be no more (indistinct) and no more surgical operation. That is not (indistinct). It will be put again. What is the use of forgetting? Even if you do forget, what is the benefit of thereof?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: So Lord Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. That is Lord Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Lord Kṛṣṇa and His instruction. He is absolute. Just like these boys. They are serving Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa is not present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present but you do not know how He is present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present by His name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa and the person Kṛṣṇa is not different. That you do not know. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa is gone, but Kṛṣṇa is present by His instruction, by His name, by His form, by His quality, by His pastime, because He is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is never absent. Simply we have to see, we have to make our eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always present. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Those who are saintly person, they are seeing twenty-four hours, every minute, Kṛṣṇa. Hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. How? Premāñjana-cchurita. When there is love of Kṛṣṇa. Just like ordinarily, if you love somebody, you will find him everywhere. So you have to develop your love for Kṛṣṇa; then Kṛṣṇa will be seen. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Just like sun. You cannot see sun at night, but when sun becomes revealed before you you can see sun and yourself and the whole world. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa will reveal, being pleased with your service and love, you will see Kṛṣṇa, you will see yourself, you will see the whole world. So simply you have to... Just like one man is suffering from cataract. So by surgical operation make the eyes free from the cataract disease—he will see everything.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Everything is development of consciousness. So when one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness that is perfect. Consciousness is there even in the tree, but that is not developed. When you cut the tree, it feels. Even a child their consciousness is not developed. Sometimes operation in the body of a child does not require anaesthetic, because they do not feel much. Can go on surgical operation on the child's body and they will feel little. Because the consciousness is not developed.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So according to the consciousness...

Prabhupāda: Development.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like in the last war, they ate stool, their own stool, out of hunger. So when there will be no foodstuff, they will kill their own children. Already they are killing, abortion. Not only abortion, children grows... By surgical instrument, they kill and they take out the child... They are already killing.

Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: When they take the pill, the birth control pill, are they killing their children too?

Prabhupāda: Killing means killing, what is that? What he is asking? I do not...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is asking that they take the pill, birth control pill.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is one kind of killing. But directly killing. They, through some instrument, through the vagina, they kill, cut into pieces and get out. Living children. He is a scientist. That surgeon, he is a scientist, and doing this business.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Anna Conan Doyle: But we are not conscious at, at that particular moment.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. Just like surgical operation is going on. He's unconscious. That is another thing. By some method, he's unconscious. But the pain is there. The pain is there. The pain is not felt. Just like animals. They, they are in painful condition, but because they are animal, they do not feel it. On the horseback, you are driving horseback, like this, like this. It is painful, but because he's animal he cannot protect himself. It is very painful. Suppose if a chain is shackled on your mouth, and I constantly push like this...? Is it not painful? The horse is controlled by the mouth...

Anna Conan Doyle: Yes, by the foot...

Prabhupāda: By the chain, yes. Horse is very powerful animal than the man. How the man can control the horse? But he knows the trick, that it has to be controlled in the mouth. As soon as there is pain in the mouth, he becomes puzzled. He has to abide by the order. The man knows the tricks. Horse is not controlled by the tai... (break) ...he's controlled.

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Revatīnandana: These kind of things, we want to know. See.

Harry: Do you agree with that, Prabhupāda? Isn't it? Prabhupāda, Prabhupāda? Do you agree with that, though, that it was not necessary to, say chant continually out in a doctor's surgery or...?

Prabhupāda: No.

Harry: No. I don't think so. I mean I wouldn't go around in the road holding up my book which tells me about the law. You know what I mean. I would read my law inside my office if I'm not certain of it. Okay. These are the thing... But there again, if you want to, well, you do it...

Revatīnandana: No. What he means is that if, whenever he hears of some incident, like the doctor's surgery, should he tell us or not? And I'm saying he should tell us so we'll know. And if it's nothing important, we can correct it easily.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the... Yes. But if you refuse to be treated, if you don't go to the physician, then how you'll be? You are blind now. There is cataract. Now you have to treat in a surgical operation. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is the injunction.

Karandhara: You see, that step requires faith.

Prabhupāda: Not faith, practical.

Karandhara: Initially it must be, there must be faith in the guru.

Prabhupāda: Practical. If you want to learn something, you must to go the expert. That is not faith; it is a fact. You cannot learn anything by yourself. That is not possible.

Bali Mardana: If someone is actually sincere, can he be cheated or will he always get a bona fide guru?

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, try, how? How can you? You are diseased person. Suppose you are suffering from cataract disease. So you can try, try, try, try. Will you be cured? You'll never be cured. You must go to a physician. He'll operate, surgical operation. Then there is chance of seeing. You cannot, trying, trying, trying, trying. Then you go on trying, but you'll never be cured.

Dr. Wolfe: But that is just what they do not want to accept.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. They do not take good advice. That is foolishness. Foolishness means mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakipaya na śāntaye (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good advice, he'll be angry. Just like a serpent, if you bring the serpent and if you tell the serpent, "My dear friend serpent, you live with me. I shall give you daily nice food, milk and banana. You'll be very pleased." So the result will be that his poison will increase. One day he'll say, "Phaḥ! Phaḥ!" (laughter) So these rascals are like that.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. No. A devotee never prays to Kṛṣṇa. They have to undergo so much trouble; still they never pray to Kṛṣṇa. They know that "Kṛṣṇa will give us ultimately protection. Let us do our duty." Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). When a devotee is in difficulty, he is not disturbed. He thinks, It is Kṛṣṇa's wish that I should suffer like like this. It is not suffering; it is my pleasure." Just like when a patient is undergoing surgical operation, there is pain, but he knows, "It is better for me." Therefore agrees, "Yes sir. You go on with your knife." So when you are surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa says that "I shall give you protection," so even in our distressed condition we must know that we are being protected by Kṛṣṇa. We should not be disturbed. Because we create so-called distress and happiness. Actually this world is distress. Here the so-called happiness is also distress. So why a devotee should be disturbed by distressed condition? Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break)

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever factories are already there, you begin chanting there.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) And then let the fellows follow your model. (break) ...small model of ten boys, who will go on chanting (break)

Prabhupāda: ...operating surgical: "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa..."

Dr. Patel: I am already model.

Prabhupāda: That's right. (break) ...coming from the back side. Kṛṣṇa is sometimes white also. Asan Balarāma (?)

Dr. Patel: No, He is white in Kṛta-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Śveta, śveta... Śuklas te tathā rakta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. Gargamuni, when he was deliberating on the horoscope of Kṛṣṇa, he said that "This child formerly had three other colors." Śuklas te tathā rakta. Śuklaḥ pītas tathā rakta idānīṁ kṛṣṇa. Śukla means white.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) There is no mercy. If he says, "No, no. I shall, I shall rub over your belly and it will be cured," is that the means? It must go on, operation, surgical operation. That is treatment. If you become kind, "No, no, no, it is very difficult. I will give him something. It will cure," That is not treatment. (Hindi) (break) Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu (BG 16.19). No mercy. "You surrender. Otherwise, if you are envious, then I am sending you to the darkest region of ignorance." (break) (Hindi) (break) ...after, you are quitting?

Girirāja: Well, I thought that everyone knew. We follow that.

Dr. Patel: They wash their hands seven times with soap and water.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, they may not be able... (heavy wind)

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...lence is violence. But Kṛṣṇa has got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnām vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So those who are duṣkṛtā, there is necessity of violence. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...surgical operation. Yes. When the...

Guest (6): Yeah, I was disturbed in the early morning. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to have surgical operation, if the doctor says, "No, no, no, I have taken to non-violence. I cannot touch with knife," that is foolishness. (break) ...you, one must know. That, you take instruction from Kṛṣṇa; then you'll know when one thing should be used and one thing not be used.

Dr. Patel: And that is necessity... (break)

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same thing, that just like a judge orders, "This man should be hanged," but the judge is not affected by such thing. He's not affected. Just like you surgical, you are going on surgical operation. You are not affected. The man is crying, "Oh, here, doctor, you are killing me, killing me, killing me." But the killing or not killing, doctor Saheb is not in con-(indistinct).

Dr. Patel:

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

sūyate sa-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

(BG 9.10)

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... These rascal atheist class, they think that prakṛti is creating. Prakṛti is creating, that the ocean is created by prakṛti. But why the ocean does not come here? Fifty, sixty yards? Because there is order that "You cannot come here." This big ocean, immediately, in one minute, it can swallow up whole Bombay. Therefore it is controlled. It is controlled by the Supreme. Mayādhyakṣeṇa.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "O Lord, You have descended especially for the purpose of annihilating all kinds of disturbing elements within the world, and because You are the Absolute Truth, there is no difference between Your mercy and punishment." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...surgical operation is there, the knife is being used on the body, that means he is getting relief. It is not punishment. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break)

Girirāja: Is that benefit coming in all suffering or only when it is given by Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When there is suffering given by Kṛṣṇa... Therefore a devotee does not take seriously suffering. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susumīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). A devotee thinks, "It is the favor of Kṛṣṇa that he has put me into suffering." They never see suffering as suffering. It is favor of Kṛṣṇa. That is devotee's vision. (break) It is exactly like a son who knows his father well. If the father slaps, the son never protests. He knows that "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee is never disturbed when there is suffering given by Kṛṣṇa. (break)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Senses are imperfect. Just like we are very proud of our eyes to see, but you cannot see what is beyond the wall. Therefore it is conditioned. You cannot see without light. That, how you can be sure that your eyes are perfectly seeing? That is not possible, because the eyes can see under certain condition. So if it is conditioned, then it is not perfect. But the conditioned sight can be purified. Just like one is suffering from cataract. By surgical operation the cataract can be removed and he can see. Similarly, our senses are imperfect. If we purify the senses, then it will be possible to see God twenty-four hours. That purification process is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Young man: Are human beings the only creations that can have Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: Some time back in the newspaper... This old president of America, Harry Truman, died, and it mentioned that he was eighty-eight years old and that in the last eight years he had been in and out of the hospital ten times for surgery. So in eight years he had been operated on ten times. At eighty-eight years old he was still trying to live, and finally he died.

Prabhupāda: Just see, just see.

Revatīnandana: So much misery; still, he would not die. He tolerated all these operations.

Bahulāśva: This Professor Stahl, he was saying that his experience is that everything is changing and temporary. So therefore he was thinking that that is the nature of all things, that they are temporary.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: When you can give life. There is sometimes cow sacrifice yajña. The cow sacrifice yajña means an old cow, he is sacrificed in the fire, and by Vedic hymns he is given again new life. To test the potency of the Vedic mantra, an old cow is sacrificed and by mantra he is given again new life. Not for killing and eating. That was discussed between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Chand Kazi, Mohammedan magistrate. Those who have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta will find. So the Kazi was challenged by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "You are killing cow and bulls. What is your religion? You are killing your father and mother." Then, he also was learned man, he said it that "In your Vedas the cow sacrifice yajña is there." Then He explained, "This sacrifice is not for eating. It is giving a new life. To test the Vedic mantra." That is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is a different case. For meat-eating a cow should not be killed. This is not very good civilization. If you are..., you must eat meat, then you can kill other animals. They, those who are the kṣatriyas, they were sometimes going to the forest, killing the deer. They are allowed. Because they have to learn how to kill. So by killing animals, they used to practice. Just like doctors, medical practitioners, they first of all ply their knife on the dead body and find out where are the nerves, where are the..., not a living man. When they are fully practiced, then they are allowed to practice surgical operation.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client. He was morose. "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." (break) ...condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...English?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian.

Brahmānanda: And the man was also Indian?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: But the barrister, he was English.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Means when he becomes double mūḍha he becomes rascal. (laughter) Single mūḍha is tolerable, and double mūḍha means mūḍha. Double M.A. Double M.A. means double rascal.

Dr. Patel: Up to this, sir, heart transplant, I mean, surgery...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) All mūḍhas. (Hindi) Apareyam. Immediately Kṛṣṇa says, but this rascal will not accept. He immediately says, "This you are analyzing, but these things, these material things—apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā (BG 7.5). There is another thing." But that they will not accept. Therefore mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa says very clearly, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā. What is that? Jīva-bhūta. That living entity. So clearly said, but they are so mūḍha, they will not accept.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Now it is all right? All right.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But to have a real master and to have a false master.... Just like a physician. He is asking that "Come here. Lie down." He is knife.... He knows that he'll make surgical.... He agrees. But if somebody, rogue, says that "I shall cut your throat," he'll not agree. That is intelligence. A physician is also with the knife, and the rogue is also with the knife. When the physician says, "You lie down. I shall have some surgical operation," he agrees to ply on his body the knife. But he'll never agree if he knows that "He is a rogue. He'll simply cut my throat." That is the difference. But superficially you see, "Both of them are with knife," but one for real happiness, one for false thing.

Carol Jarvis: I find it hard to see the difference...

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Not developed. But you cannot say there is no soul. Sometimes they say foolishly that the animal, there is no soul. That is foolishness. Everywhere there is soul. It is not developed. So just like a child is as good as animal, but you cannot say in the child there is no soul. The consciousness is not developed. You can say like that. Similarly, there are 8,400,000 species of forms. They are different on account of different development of consciousness. A tree, there is consciousness, but it is very, very covered. If you cut the tree, it does not protest, because the consciousness is not developed. I have seen in children surgical operation. They do not require anesthetics. I remember. My eldest daughter, when she was child, she had some boil here. So the doctor wanted to operate. So I asked him that "Apply anesthetic or do something." "No, no, they don't require." And so the doctor cut the boil, and the child simply, "Ehhh, ehhh," no crying. I have seen it when they did.... No crying. Because the consciousness is not developed.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There is no history. When you come to the political platform, war is necessary. In logic it is called argumentum vaculum, that when a man is not accepting reasoning, then there must be stick. It is like that. When there are two parties—there is some disagreement—so one is not reasonable, then there must be stick. That is war. Just like animal. The animal cannot understand reasoning, so you have to take the stick. Then the animal will agree. If a dog entering room, you don't want him in, so you say, "Dog, don't enter." He'll not hear. And if you show a stick, it will go away. So for the dogs, for the animals, stick is required. That is war. And there is logic. You know this, argumentum vaculum. In logic there is. So when logic fails, you have to take to war. Not whimsically. You try to avoid war. And when the other party does not agree to logic, then there must be fight. So that is also necessary because all men are not abiding by logic. So everything is necessary if it used for good purpose. Just like surgical operation. The patient is crying, "Don't operate me, surgical." So it is necessary. Otherwise he'll not be cured. So war is not always bad. War is meant for good purpose. But if you use it.... Everything you can use for bad purpose. That is another thing, another side. But don't think that war is itself always bad, no.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They're going to become fish. Now they are being trained up how to become fish. So after this body is finished, they'll take a body of fish. When one becomes fish he doesn't know that this is punishment. He says that it is very nice. Concession by māyā, that he's put into suffering, but he'll think that "I am enjoying." This is mercy of māyā. (break)...anesthetic in surgical operation. Surgical operation, that is suffering, but if you apply some anesthetic, you do not perceive. It is like that.

Devotee (2): ...solution for this?

Prabhupāda: Sufficient chanting. That's all. Kirtanad eva kṛṣṇaśya mukta sanga param vrajet (SB 12.3.51).

Devotee (4): In the fish body will he have to suffer for all his other sinful activities also?

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gauḍīya Maṭha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tīrtha Mahārāja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupāda was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that "I may die." So he made a scrap paper, that "In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gauḍīya Maṭha Institute." That's all. So this Kuñja Bābu kept this. There are many long histories. So one of the so-called trustees was this Vāsudeva. So he died, his end was like this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: His son was killed, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: His wife was a regular prostitute, and she killed her child, and on this shock, he took poison and died.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No experience? You are not diseased? Do you want disease? Still, you say you have no experience? When you are put into some disease and go to hospital and the doctor surgically operates your body, so you have no experience? You did not want that. Your fertile brain, when it is operated with hammer, so you did not experience? How do you say that you have no experience? You are suffering every moment. But you don't want suffering. How do you say that there is no experience? That is foolishness. They are suffering every moment, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Still, you say you have no experience? Means shameless. In Indian language we call vehāyā. He has got repeated experience; still, he'll say, "No, I don't care for it."

Rādhāvallabha: How does he have experience of rebirth?

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, League was that, that was... I was trying to collect some devotees. Some of them, they were medical... Yes. Medical students. So they came and used to live with me. But still, I lived there for two years. From 1954 to '56. I had some surgical operation in my testicles there. They were taking care. This Prabhākāra and... They were not full time. They were students. That's all. They were living with me.

Hari-śauri: But your Bhāgavatams, it says they were published by the League of Devotees. Does that just mean yourself or there were others?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That was... League of Devotees was my organization. Therefore I gave that name.

Hari-śauri: But actually it was just you. Oh.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Father-mother take... Because they think it is civilization. Elderly boys, the father mother tell, "What is the wrong, illicit sex? Take woman, take car. Enjoy life." I have seen it. They know, "This is life. Why...?" Therefore they say, "Brainwash. This Swamiji is controlling their minds and brainwashing." That is their charge. Wash, ne. The brain should be operated, surgical to take out all rubbish things from the... It is called membrane?

Pradyumna: Cerebrum?

Prabhupāda: Cereb?

Hari-śauri: Cerebral.

Prabhupāda: Cere... Not... It is all gobar. Take out. (pause) Ne, make khicuḍi.

Devotee: Puṣpānna rice?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But one thing is that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. In Bhagavad-gītā there is no such statement that you take care of the eyes of the people. There is no such statement. That is your manufactured idea. But we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is the difference. Our preaching is that instead of giving relief to the eyes, give him relief in such a way he hasn't got to accept any more this body with eyes. You cannot make a solution of the problem. Somebody is taking care of the eyes, somebody's taking of the finger, somebody of the hair, somebody of another, genital, and so on, so on. This will not solve the problem. The problem is, as it is said in the Bhagavad..., janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is intelligence. As soon as you take birth, then you'll have eyes, you'll have eye trouble, vyādhi. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. If you accept janma-mṛtyu, then between janma-mṛtyu there is vyādhi and jarā. You have to accept. You may give some relief, but you have to accept. So that is not solution. The solution is how to stop this janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. That is solution. That is bigger solution. So we are giving that thing—there will be no more eyes' trouble. The main disease... Suppose one man is diseased, so sometimes he is feeling headache, sometimes eye-ache, sometimes finger-ache, and you are applying some medicine for headache. That is not the solution. The solution is that this man is suffering from this disease. How to cure it? So Bhagavad-gītā is meant for that purpose. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). And as soon as you accept body, kleśada... Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Asann api. This body is not permanent. So because the body is not permanent, the disease also not permanent. So Kṛṣṇa's advice is tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). You make the solution—that is the greatest solution—that how to stop janma-mṛtyu. But that they do not know, that this can be stopped. They are simply busy with their temporary problems. And they are taking it as very great. What is great? Suppose if you have got a boil here. Simply by pinprick. (makes blowing sound) Will it cure? There must be surgical operation.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I had one... When I was doing medical business I had one very nice customer. He was my patron also, one Muhammadan doctor, Sriraja Uttina.(?) He was very kind to me. He was just like a father to me. So his system was that in his pharmacy, patent medicine, drugs, medicine, surgical instruments, like that different headings. So suppose, at the sales time, sells some patent medicine. So he has got a box. So he puts the price in the patent medicine. And if he sells some surgical, he puts the price in the surgical pot. In this way, when they want to purchase again, so he would consult his pot, whether there is money. Then he'll allow to purchase. Otherwise not. So he told me, "This is my account. This is my account. When they want to purchase, they consign us something. I shall allow them to purchase so much as I have got in the box." This is... I have seen that gentleman. And in Calcutta there was... In our young time there was a cinema, Mr. Maddar, J.F. Maddar. He's a Parsee. So for some..., business, he was tenant of mine. One of my tenants. So in his room there were boxes. So I asked Mr. Maddar what is this box at home.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What you can do?" This risk they are taking. They do not believe, therefore, there is next life. And wherefrom this life came, varieties? These rascals have no brain, and they are passing as scientist, politician, philosopher, all rascals, tenth-class men. Tell them. Challenge them, "What do you know about the value of life? Your brain must be washed to clear out all the dirty things." Our duty is that. Just like a patient does not know how he will be cured, but the surgeon—"Operation. Clear out these pusses." He may protest, "Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!" But "Yes! It is my business. Clear out the pusses. Then you will be relieved—by force." But he can protest, "Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!" "Pusses, what for you...? Pusses is not to be maintained. It has to be cleared out." This is para upakāra, doing good to others. And the patient will protest, "Oh, this rascal doctor, killing me, killing me, killing me!" "Yes, I am not killing you. I am saving you. You go on accusing me any way, but I must do my duty." This is the point. "Yes, we are washing brain," exactly like the experienced surgeon. He doesn't make any compromise. "Oh, you are suffering from the boil. There is pus. All right, you don't like operation?" Will that cure? ""No, fool! Come one. Bring knife. Cut it. Press. Now?" "Oh, I am so relieved! You are God. You are God." Then he will see. That is our duty: purge out all pusses accumulated due to infection, material infection. This is our duty. We cannot make any compromise. When the pusses are to be purged out, we cannot take your advice, that "Just blow some air from the mouth or some fan. It will be cured." No, it will not be. Take surgical operation. That is only way. Purge out. "No this! No this! No this! No meat-eating, no..." This is purging.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: When you have to go?

Akṣayānanda: The boys can leave at 6:15.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: We have enough time one hour. And K. K. Dattrey and I are working together in one association for the psychic surgery. He is the president, I am the vice-president, so I know him very well, personally.

Prabhupāda: Cardiologist.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: Cardiologist. He was cardiologist to the president also. He is very well known. And he is utilizing yoga for reducing the blood pressure in the heart, āsana and all those things. He is very much interested in yogic philosophy also. Yoga, haṭha-yoga.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: God conscious? Is he God conscious?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of our basic points is that we are not this body but we are actually soul. So I would wonder how Dr. Sharma, he is a specialist in, I think, cardiology...

Dr. Sharma: Cardiac surgery.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we say that the soul is in the heart. So how can we convince the other doctors, for example, of the presence of the soul within the body and especially within the heart?

Prabhupāda: They do not know that the soul is there. Because they have misunderstood. So when the soul goes away, they think their heart has pain. Material cause. They do not know because the soul has left, the heart is not working. They take it on the other way, that because the heart is not working, therefore he's lying down.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Strangulation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then they were prepared to surgical operation. Then another experienced doctor came. He said, "Let us wait today." So he was kept in the hospital, and we came back. That Kashiram... Another friend, servant of the neighborhood, and so he said, "Bābājī, he has drunk this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He got a little drunk.

Prabhupāda: So I said, "Don't delay. So many doctors..." And next morning he came back and said, "The doctor said, 'You are all right, you can go.' "

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was just drunk from liquor.

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Satsvarupa -- San Francisco 18 March, 1968:

I am pleased to learn that Rupanuga is fully conscious about our movement and he has full confidence in his spiritual master. Today I have received one letter from Hayagriva and it is understood that he is feeling our separation. I have replied him and have asked him to see me when I am in N.Y. Hope you are all well. Please keep in touch with Pradyumna's surgical operation affairs.

1969 Correspondence

Letter to Krsna dasa -- San Francisco 3 April, 1969:

Regarding your other points, I am pleased that you are trying for legalization of our society. This has been already done both in London and the United States. As for your eye trouble, you need not take to an operation for your sickness. Doctors are not the Ultimate Healer. This is Krishna's position. In your Western countries, the doctors are very much fond of surgical operations. When there is no other alternative, of course we have to take shelter of such demonic treatment, but as far as possible try to avoid that, and depend on Krishna.

1971 Correspondence

Letter to Madhudvisa -- New York 28 July, 1971:

Yes, even an ordinary man absorbed in some other thought forgets his bodily pains and pleasures. So why not in Krishna Consciousness? I learned from an intimate friend of Stalin that he underwent surgical operation of the abdomen without any anesthetic. It was in the papers. He saw it that his own abdomen was being operated on. He was so strong minded. So when one is in Krishna Consciousness, he no more feels any bodily pains and pleasures. After all, we are not this body. But we should make progress steadily by following the rules and regulations, not making experiment. Just like Haridasa Takhur was beaten in 22 market places and he felt no pain. Prahlada was boiled in oil. So we have to take instruction from them, but not to imitate.

1973 Correspondence

Letter to Upendra -- Bombay 9 January, 1973:

I am in receipt of your letter dated Jan. 2, 1973, and I have noted the contents with great care. I am very sorry to hear that you must undergo one operation of surgery upon your hernia condition, that is preventing you from opening a center in Perth. Yes, I can appreciate that you have opened so many centers now, all over the world, so never mind if some others may have to go there in your place. You take good rest and become very healthy by the time that I shall come there in February. If I get the opportunity I shall also go to that Hare Krsna farm near Melbourne City, 80 miles, and if you prepare some place for me to stay.

1974 Correspondence

Letter to Atreya Rsi -- Bombay 4 April, 1974:

Very suddenly Tamala Krsna Goswami underwent treatment for a surgical operation for a hernia. Now he is completely invalid and cannot move. It will take about two weeks more to recover, and then he desires to go to the U.S.A. for preaching work, and retire from the GBC.

We have discussed about you because immediately you have no portfolio. I am now in India, so in my presence another GBC may not be required, but if required in my absence, my question is whether it will be possible for you to take charge? Kindly guide me how it will be possible, while keeping you occupation intact.