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Status (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Oh, the robe? Yes, I am a sannyāsī. The sannyāsī is the highest status of human social division. According to Vedic culture there are four divisions of human society. Brahmacārī, student life; then householder, gṛhastha; and then vānaprastha, retired life; and then sannyāsa life, means preaching transcendental knowledge to the society from door to door. So this dress... In Vedic culture, there are different dresses for different persons. So this saffron colored dress means that he is admitted without any introduction anywhere because he's understood to be a man of transcendental knowledge. And the householders receive them and take knowledge from them. That is the system of Vedic culture.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 23, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: First thing is that calculation of Candra, moon planet, there are different views. Different scientists, they have different views. It is not a standard. They have not agreed to the... Somebody says something, somebody says another thing. Speculation. That's all. But that idea, that it is very low in temperature, that is mentioned in Bhāgavata. You cannot live in the water. You have to qualify yourself. (Sound of ducks). Just see. Their body is made just suitable for the water. So you have to qualify yourself. That is... Just like, in the spiritual sky they can live only spiritual body, and material body cannot live there. Material body is not allowed there. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ (BG 14.18). Those who are too much passionate, they are meant to live in this planet. This planetary system, status. There are many other planets like this world. So they are allowed to live here. Here all living entities, they are very much passionate. And adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And there are other planets, they are dark, dark planets, below this earthly planet. And the animals, they are in darkness. Although they're on this park, but they do not know where they are, darkness. Their knowledge is not developed. This is the result of the modes of ignorance. And those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are neither in darkness, nor in passion, nor in goodness. They are transcendental. So if one cultivates Kṛṣṇa consciousness nicely, he is at once promoted to the Kṛṣṇaloka. That is wanted. You are all chanting sixteen rounds? No? (laughs)

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is composed of four different stages. The first stage is to understand the relationship with Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. Because the conditioned souls at the present moment, they have forgotten self. They have forgotten their relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Actually the relationship is there, eternal, but under the influence of māyā he is thinking that "I am something of this material world," identifying himself with this body. So we have to awake them from that illusory existence, what he is not. The whole mistake of the modern status of life... I don't say modern civilization. This is coming up since the creation of this material world. Sometimes it is in greater degree and sometimes in lesser degree. In Satya-yuga the same condition, but in lesser degree. But in Kali-yuga the condition is in greater degree. So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. We speak of illusion, māyā. This is illusion, that "I am this body and anything in relation of this body..." I have got special relationship with certain woman, so I think, "She is my wife. I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion because they are in bodily relationship. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Those who are passing on on this illusory condition of life, they are compared with the cows and the asses. So our first business is to wake up the general mass of people from this illusory condition of life. So Back to Godhead is specially meant for that purpose. We are pushing our Back to Godhead to the general mass of people to the first condition, first status of enlightenment. And then those who are becoming enlightened, coming forward, "Swamiji, or the society, please make me a member. Please initiate me," he is coming forward, understanding his position. So that is second stage, to train him how to awaken his, that dormant love of God. That is another stage, training. Sambandha abhidheya. Then, when he is actually in love of Godhead, then he can understand the higher status of loving exchange between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the Vṛndāvana. This is third, third stage, yes. And the fourth stage is paramahaṁsa stage, who is always enjoying. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti... When one is completely merged in the ocean of love of Godhead, he will relish in any condition of life Kṛṣṇa, present. Kṛṣṇa present means, Kṛṣṇa present, His name present, His form present, His līlā present, His paraphernalia present.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Now, even there was no God's picture, one who is God conscious, he can see in the natural scenery presentation, he can see, "Oh, how God is artistic. How he has manufactured this flower, how he has painted, how He has made this tree." So that is higher intelligence. That is higher intelligence. Because without God, there can be nothing existing. So one has to learn how to see God in everything. That is another thing. That is higher status. Yes. But in the lower status of God consciousness one is advised that you should not see anything without God. But in the higher status, there is nothing in the world which is without God. But we should not imitate the higher status of life in the lower status of our position. Otherwise, one who has learned about God, he can see God in this flower. Actually, how God's hand has worked out this nice flower. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). Just like I am drinking water. In the taste of the water I'll see God. God says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water." And actually, that taste cannot be created by man. The taste in the water, that is God's gift. So as soon as I taste the water, immediately I should remember, "Oh, here is God."

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: Just like you were saying a while ago that if you were in God consciousness, you need not wear a robe. That's also our philosophy. It's very practical. But your consciousness would be always serving Kṛṣṇa, always serving God in whatever status of life. It isn't necessary to put on a robe first and then do like that.

Dr. Weir: But it helps some people.

Mensa Member: The soul is a very interesting concept, the soul as well, the fact that the soul is quantifiable, that it exists in a smaller part in the larger animals, and a higher part in a higher animals.

Śyāmasundara: No. It's the same size in all entities.

Mensa Member: Oh, it is, is it? But when we reach a point when we don't know whether there are living things or not, you know, the amino acids, and things like that or...

Dr. Weir: Well, I would take up that straight away, fundamentally, that it's perfectly correct to say it's the same size in every (indistinct) has no size.

Prabhupāda: No. It has size. We cannot measure it.

Dr. Weir: That's what I mean. Therefore the word size is a misconception.

Prabhupāda: But that is not a scientific statement. Because you have no measuring instrument you cannot say it has no size.

Dr. Weir: Now what you say it has not got three dimension, but when we talk about size...

Prabhupāda: Yes, three dimension. It is said, it is estimated that ten... one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Actually in higher sense there is nothing material because everything is emanating from God, therefore everything is spiritual.

Dr. Weir: Well, that's true but the electron, as far as you can say, may be spiritual.

Prabhupāda: There is no distinction in higher status because we say that everything that we see that is manifestation of God's energy.

Dr. Weir: Exactly.

Prabhupāda: Energy. So in that sense, if it is God's energy there is nothing material. It is material when we forget God. That is material.

Dr. Weir: Well I would have said... You're rather going back to the analogy of the light. If there's no light there you can't see whether there's anything there or not. Directly you have the light it enables you to see it. But the things exist independent of whether the light was there all along.

Prabhupāda: Light is in relationship with the fire. So light is not different from the fire. Unless there is fire there is no light. There is no heat. So as soon as you feel heat or see light the fire is there. In higher sense those who can realize immediately realize that there is fire. Just like here there's light. Immediately you can understand there is fire. There is electricity. So it is a question of realization. In the higher realization there is nothing matter. Everything is spiritual. Simply when you forget God that is material. That is material.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: That philosophy, if you want to know more, then we can speak more. But that is the outlines of the philosophy, that people, without knowledge of his identification, they are misled, being misled. And that is very risky. Risky means that you have got this opportunity of understanding your position and get out of the difficulties of birth, death, old age, and disease. If you do not properly use this opportunity and again you become cats and dogs, then are you not misled? So present civilization is misleading. They are concerned with a few years enjoyment, so-called enjoyment. Suppose you are Australian or American. You have got very nice status in your country, good house, good facility, good money, and that's all right. But after your death, when you have to quit this subtle atmosphere, then after your death what is happening to you, you are not concerned to know? If you are eternal, if you are eternal, then suppose you have got this shirt and coat. When it is torn down, when it is old enough, you have to give it up. Then you have to purchase another shirt and coat. So are you not prepared for that, "What kind of shirt and coat I shall have?"

Author: No, I'm not.

Prabhupāda: You are not? That is a very good intelligence? You go naked?

Author: No. It's not very wise, provided one assumes that one is going to have another.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The temple is calling on the phone. They want to know if you are coming to that...

Prabhupāda: No. No. It is too late. Just like there is higher studies in science, in so many departments of knowledge. It is not that mass of people is interested in Ph.D. degree. But if one is interested in Ph.D. degree, therefore government provides him: "Yes, in university, you come." That is the real facility. So if anyone is interested to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, why it should be denied? Why this should be obstructed because I do not like it? In big, big universities, maybe in higher studies, there may be one student, and for that one student they are maintaining four professors. Each professor is paid two thousand dollars. Is it not a fact? What do you think, you professor. Is it not a fact? Some department of knowledge is maintained, even it is not paying. Is it not? There are so many departments simply for research work because the government knows it is important thing. It may not be for the mass of people, but at least one, two intelligent class of men, he pays, qualified: "Let them have this opportunity." So this is like that. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not for ordinary man, but it is very important movement. Those who are interested, why they should be denied? It should be maintained. We cannot expect everyone can give up all these bad habits, illicit sex, illicit meat-eating, or drink, or intoxication, gambling. That is not expected. But if one wants to be for higher status of life, why he should be denied? This is not a bad thing. Why the city fathers are thinking that this should be stopped? All right, let us now... So my appeal to you, that you are journalist; you at least study this, our movement, and present very nicely. That is my request.

Author: Well, thank you very much for...

Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you. Stop that. (end)

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is the process. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they will be God-realized. Just like these boys. Four years ago they did not know what is meant by Kṛṣṇa. So now they are so perfect. Of course, we cannot be perfect anyway, but they are far, far better than any Kṛṣṇa-bhakta in the world. Even Indians, they say, "Oh, they are better than us." And what is the process? Simply they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they are becoming God-realized. Even last night we had meeting with the Christian fathers. They very much appreciated. And in Boston one Christian priest issued literature, that "These boys, they are our boys. They are so mad after God, but we could not do." So this is... Why they have become so? Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So anyone chants will get this status. This is practical. Not only... In anywhere. We have got many Chinese, many Japanese, Africans, and Canadians and Europeans, and Australia also, we have got many Australian boys. So wherever we are chanting, it is being effective. The real purpose is to realize God. So that is being done. So we have to accept the method recommended for a particular age and time. Then we become successful. (break) ...likes you? Vipada(?). No.

Upendra: These two boys, they are coming all the time and chanting, these two boys.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen these boys. You are from China?

Malaysian Boy: No, Malaysia.

Prabhupāda: Malaysian. Oh. Malaysians, they are originally from China.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Śyāmasundara: He can oversee some foreign...

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has this book department. Book department and... They may move according to convenience, Bali-mardana and Karandhara. He has got also very responsibility, with this department, that department. He has to purchase small houses. So big brain (indistinct). So similarly, you also think on the books. Everyone take big responsibility. Then we have to serve this mission. The people are foolish, they have forgotten God. We are delivering them. Best service. And without God, it is all useless, zero, all this civilization. Zero. Whatever they are making advancement, it is all zero. And nonsense. But actually it is. Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine. Phalena paricīyate, one has to study by the result. Not that superficially you show that "We are very much advanced." Phalena, what is the result? Phalena paricīyate, your, that is in English word also, end justifies the means. The end is this (indistinct) "We are going to support homosex." Getting married. There are many cases the priestly order has actually got married. I read it in that paper, Watch, what is called?

Devotees: Watchtower.

Prabhupāda: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct) them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal. This is all due to godlessness. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12), godless civilization cannot have any good qualities. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathena asato dhāvato... They simply go to the untruth by mental speculation. (end)

Room Conversation -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: ...and peach, they are natural products from the jungle. Nobody goes to manufacture, automatically comes out. But when they are combined together, it is nectarean. None of them is manufactured by man, either this honey or the strawberry or the pineapple. Given by God. So in every step, you can perceive the hands of God. Every step. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This nice taste you cannot create by any chemical combination. It is not possible. Because God's hand is there, it has become so tasteful drink. Man cannot make. This flower, man cannot make. This fruit... Nothing man can make. This nice flower stick, how nicely it is made. So everything you can perceive the hands of God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When you perceive the hands of God, presence of God, presence of the energy of God, then you become happy. That is the way of happiness. In every step of life, you feel the hands of God. We are teaching..., this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means how to perceive, realize presence of God in everything. So there will be no disappointment. (to guests:) Take more? Go on eating. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything there is. Actually that is a fact. People are so foolish. They are not trained up to understand the presence of God in everything. So we are training that status of life to perceive presence of God in everything. In everything. (pause) This is called peach?

Śyāmasundara: Um hm. Like those trees we saw on the walk this morning.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śyāmasundara: We saw some peach trees, small ones.

Prabhupāda: This is also peach?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. No peaches in India?

Prabhupāda: Not so big. It is very nice. These fruits are there in India. What is called?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: So you convince her that ordinary schools, going, there are so many ordinary schools and students, where the students are coming out useless hippies. Do you like to have your son to become hip..., which are hippies? Ask on this point.

Devotee (5): Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Because we practically see, all the college students are hippies. Irresponsible vagabonds. If she wants her son to become like that, that is different thing. Irresponsible vagabonds, that is the present status of this country. The majority of the students, they are becoming irresponsible vagabonds. Is it not?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, correct. We all have experience in that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if she, if she wants son to become irresponsible, irresponsible vagabond, in the association... Of course, our Dallas also we should take very much care so that we may not also produce irresponsible vagabond. So don't cause irresponsible vagabonds.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are your instructions to the parent..., to the teachers as to how they treat parents? I have heard several parents sometimes complain that..., that they don't get enough news about their children from the teachers. Should teacher let the parents know about the children?

Prabhupāda: So our, the small children teaching...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: ...you said if he's coming from God, then what difference does it make?

Prabhupāda: You can see that you are a fool (but) God is not fool. That is the difference. But God is (indistinct), He'll not speak foolish. Because he is above all this foolishness but you are within the foolishness. That is the difference. Try to answer them like that. You are within the status of foolishness, māyā, and God is above māyā. If God is also within the māyā, as the rascal Māyāvādīs say, then what is the use of God? We are everything.

Yogeśvara: They just accumulate knowledge just for knowledge sake.

Prabhupāda: Not just for knowledge because they do not get any knowledge. They have no knowledge. What is the knowledge? They talk all nonsense. What is the knowledge?

Revatīnandana: His argument was "Well there's no point in talking about this matter. All of us accept this." He's saying: all big authorities, they accept this point of view, that this was recently written literature.

Prabhupāda: No, they don't know who are authorities.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So very glad to see you. (break)

Dr. Hauser: You see, when I met George, he was a very, what do you call it, person that hadn't found anything very specific in life. He floated about very much and he... Now when I met him yesterday he was very, he seemed very happy and very sure of himself and what he was doing, and that made me very happy. I thought that was something very nice. I liked him very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the original status of the living entity. Just like a son is conscious always that "I am the son of such and such person." This consciousness is natural. So living entities, when they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Because we are all parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa. It cannot be broken. A person may go mad. But when he's cured, he immediately understands that "I belong to such and such family, such and such gentleman's son." That is natural. Similarly in the contact of this material nature, the spiritual spark, living entity, he's in madness. You are a psychiatrist. You know very well. Every man is more or less a madman.

Dr. Hauser: Or he has the germ within himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We say in a Bengali poetry:

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

Anyone who is infected with this material energy, he is just like a man, ghostly haunted. You have any experience of ghostly haunted men? A ghost captures him.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): It is God's desire.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is nature's arrangement. And those who are rich... There are richer section when the rice was selling at three rupees per mound, and the richer section is still there when rice is selling, nine rupees a kilo. So they have no eyes because less intelligent. They cannot make equal. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, in the prakṛti there are three modes of material nature. They will be manifested. It is not possible to make everyone of the same standard, the standard must be different. So they are simply spoiling their time to make the whole society on the same status. The communists are trying, the others are trying. That is not possible. So one should not be disturbed with all these superficial low and high places. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,

yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete
puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha
sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ
so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate

One is not disturbed with this outwards happiness and distress, he's eligible to become immortal. Saḥ amṛtatvāya. How? (Hindi) Yaṁ hi... (break) ...amṛta, eternal. And that is perfection. And that is going back to home, back to Godhead. But they do not know what is the aim of life. Still, they are leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), leaders are blind, and they're leading blind men. Therefore there is always disaster, confusion.

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But Bhagavad-gītā says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Bhagavad-gītā says that if you understand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, janma karma me... First of all, you always remember that whatever we are talking, we are talking on the Bhagavad-gītā, on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, then tyaktvā deham, giving up this body, you'll not have to accept another material body. This is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. But so long you'll accept this body, material body, you'll remain imperfect. There cannot be any perfection. It may be gradation. There are eight million, four hundred forms of life. There is Brahmā, and there is ant also. Both of them are living entities. But the status quo of the ant, and the status quo of Brahmā is not the same, higher consciousness or mental... So they're all in the material world. None of them are perfect. Between Brahmā and ant, there are millions of other living entities, eight million. Not only one million. Millions. 8,400,000 forms of life. They're all imperfect because they have accepted this material body, either Brahmā or ant, but your perfection will come when you do not accept this material body. That is the, I mean to, the destination of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: (BG 4.9) "After quitting this body, he does not accept any more this material body." This, that means he, he becomes perfect. That is stated in another place. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ (BG 8.15). Mām upetya. Find out this... Now, unless you take some standard book of knowledge, we cannot talk. If you talk whimsically, I talk whimsically, then there will be no end of talk. We have to... Because you told me the other day: "In the Bhagavad-gītā..." That is all right. Here is a standard. Everyone accepts. Now..., You have found it?

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Girirāja: At any moment it can be taken away. So they are under control. But they will raise the point that "We have our concept of God and you have your concept of God."

Prabhupāda: No. God cannot be "your God" or "my God." God is one. You cannot say that. Just like you cannot say in the United States that "your concept of president, my concept of president." President is one. If you manufacture your concept of president, that means you do not know what is president. President of United States, he has got a status, constitution, that "This is the president." So you must know that. You cannot say, "I have my concept of president." That you cannot say. Can you say that?

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? The president is one. Either you don't know or I don't know. So we must know what is that president. This is first point, what is God.

Devotee: By argument you can convince a skeptic of the possibility of the existence of God, but the reality of Godhead can only be really realized... I mean has to be experienced or realized, does it not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a point of realization. But the first preamble is that there must be God, the Supreme Being. In the dictionary it is stated, Supreme Being. So as in every department, everywhere, there is a supreme controller. Same example. The president is the supreme controller of this state. United States. In another state, in India also, the president is the supreme controller. Similarly, taking the whole universe or many such millions of universes taken together, there must be a Supreme Being. Otherwise how things are going on, nicely? (break) This is our first point.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it.

Dr. Patel: But then you became fiery.

Prabhupāda: No, we can preach... No, my point was that because it is not applicable to me, I shall condemn.

Dr. Patel: That you don't eat, that's not condemning. Let them go and do their own... (break).

Prabhupāda: In the lower status, so they require.

Dr. Patel: So, but you are also as weak as I am, both of us, so we... Ācchā. (laughs)

Indian man (3): They are wrong, but you are... We are reading what he has written.

Prabhupāda: "Swami Narayan is better than Kṛṣṇa."

Indian man (4): No, no, that is wrong. That is... You, tomorrow you will say, "He was fool" Suppose these boys tomorrow say...

Indian man (3): I'm representing also, he also represents, we both have... We are Vaiṣṇavas bhaktas.

Prabhupāda: He accepted that...(laughs)

Room Conversation -- May 20, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: When you sow it, it will bring more money. There will be no problem.

Gurudāsa: In the old system, land and jewelry was riches.

Prabhupāda: Jewelry for rich man, land for ordinary man. Land and food grains, that is money. So at our present status, how we can utilize this land? As grazing ground?

Gurudāsa: Presently I think gośala is more practical.

Prabhupāda: There is another gośala, they are not utilizing, Panchar(?) Gośala. Why don't you try for that? They can give it free, that we shall... "Give us it, we shall utilize it for Kṛṣṇa."

Gurudāsa: We can try.

Prabhupāda: Find out who is Panchar(?). "If we do not use for gośala, then you can take it back. But we shall utilize it for gośala. So why don't you give us the land?" Attached to the temple, we maintain a gośala.

Gurudāsa: That's nice.

Prabhupāda: Still we shall require to grow some food for the cows and nice water supply. Then you simply keep the cows there. They will eat and drink and remain here peacefully. Only one room for watching(?).

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He is confused because he was a kṣatriya, soldier. A soldier's duty is to fight with the enemy. So Kṛṣṇa was advising him, "The opposite party is your enemy. You are a kṣatriya. Why you are trying to become non-violent? This is not good." Therefore he says, "Actually I am now confused. So in confusion I cannot take the right conclusion. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. You just give me the proper lesson." This is the point. So they were friends. Still, he was confused. So in chaotic condition, in confusion status of life, we must approach the person who is in full knowledge of the things. Just like you go to a lawyer, you go to a physician; similarly, every one of us in the material world, we are confused. Therefore we must go to the spiritual master who can give us real knowledge.

O'Grady: Right. So, therefore, for example, I am very confused.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Atreya Ṛṣi: He is confused.

O'Grady: Very confused.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you must approach a spiritual master.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: But that's not possible for the mass of people.

Prabhupāda: No, why not possible? We have got so many, just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He remained completely brahmacārī, although naked he is. He is. He doesn't require, and neither he is agitated. Just like when he was passing, the girls were taking bath. They did not take care. They knew that he is not at all affected by any woman. And when his father was going, they covered. So father inquired, Vyāsadeva, a personality like Vyāsadeva, said, "Why you covered? I am old man, and my young son he was passing naked." They said that "He is paramahaṁsa. He has no agitation of the mind. But you are gṛhastha. You live with woman. You have got distinction, man and woman." So this is civilization. What is the use of sex life? It is simply entanglement. Therefore, at the last stage, one is supposed to become sannyāsī. What is sannyāsī? Vānaprastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī—no sex life. Out of the four different status of life, the brahmacārī has no sex life, the vānaprastha has no sex life, the sannyāsī has no sex life. Only the gṛhastha. That means it is prohibitory. It is allowed—it is simply concession to the person who cannot remain without sex life. It is simply a concession. Otherwise, according to Vedic civilization, there is no need of sex life. Because it is entanglement, simply entanglement. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham (SB 7.9.45). The example has been given. There is itching between the two hands. That's all. That means the itching disease is increased. This has been the description of sex life. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Although behind the sex life there are so many troubles, but still the rascals do not cease. Either illicit sex or legal sex... Legal sex you beget children. There are so many troubles. You have to raise them nicely, you have to give them education, you must be situated nicely. That is the duty of father.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Well, I would say, to the extent that it has a bearing on improving a man's position in his job, improving his skills at work, and improving his ability to represent his fellowman in trade unions and that kind of thing, we are concerned with it. We are concerned with generally improving his general culture, his general education, and in particular his education as a worker in relation to industrial and trade union life in general. We hope that by this means a man will improve his status, and by improving his status, he will have other things to think about than just getting drunk. So that's the...

Yogeśvara: We find that in our society, all of our men, in whatever particular capacity of work they have, are now hundred times more productive than they were before they came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness because now they have found peace of self, and therefore they are in a better position to execute their prescribed duties successfully.

C. Hennis: Are you saying that they do more work?

Yogeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No. Do work intelligently. Not that to be very hard-working like ass, without any intelligence. Just like ass is the most hard-working animal, but it has no intelligence. You see? So we don't want that. We want working with intelligence. That is difference.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Read the purport.

Satsvarūpa: The Lord is the creator of everything. Everything is born of Him, everything is sustained by Him, and everything, after annihilation, rests in Him. He is therefore the creator of the four divisions of the social order, beginning with the intelligent class of men, technically called brāhmaṇas due to their being situated in the mode of goodness. Next is the administrative class, technically called the kṣatriyas due to their being situated in the mode of passion. The mercantile men, called the vaiśyas, are situated in the mixed modes of passion and ignorance, and the śūdras, or laborer class, are situated in the ignorant mode of material nature. In spite of His creating the four divisions of human society, Lord Kṛṣṇa does not belong to any of these divisions, because He is not one of the conditioned souls, a section of whom form human society. Human society is similar to any other animal society, but to elevate men from the animal status, the abovementioned divisions are created by the Lord for the systematic development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The tendency of a particular man toward work is determined by the modes of material nature which he has acquired. Such symptoms of life, according to different modes of material nature, are described in the Eighteenth Chapter of this book. A person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, however, is above even the brāhmaṇas, because a brāhmaṇa by quality is supposed to know about Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth. Most of them approach the impersonal Brahman manifestation of Lord Kṛṣṇa, but only a man who transcends the limited knowledge of a brāhmaṇa and reaches the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, becomes a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness—or, in other words, a Vaiṣṇava. Kṛṣṇa consciousness includes knowledge of all different plenary expansions of Kṛṣṇa, namely Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, etc. However, as Kṛṣṇa is transcendental to this system of the four divisions of human society, a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also transcendental to all divisions of human society, whether we consider the divisions of community, nation or species.

Reverend Powell: Thank you. The first part of that made me think of Jesus' parable about the talents, that some get two talents, and some get five and some ten. And...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Come on. Sit down. Thank you. Oh, it is very nice. (handles paper wrapping) You can close the door.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Professor: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, knowledge... Living entity, by constitutional position, has got knowledge, but in connection with this material world, when this living entity comes to this material world, so according to the body, the development of knowledge differs.

Professor: If one is following different stage, status of knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Different stage of knowledge means different types of body. Just like a child. A child is talking in some way. The same child, when he will get a different body, youthful body, he'll talk differently. What do you think?

Guest (1) (German Man): I would like to ask you a question. Once Leibnitz, who is one of the fathers of the Western tradition, formulated the question which was the beginning of metaphysics in a way, Western metaphysics. The question is "Why there is anything?" What is your stand about this classic point?

Prabhupāda: Why?

Guest (1): Why there is anything?

Hṛdayānanda: Why anything exists? What is the reason for the existence of...?

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) "Why anything exists?" (laughter) What do you mean by anything?

Guest (1): Well, that's precisely the point. What is the purpose? What is the sense, if there is any, or does the very question make sense?

Prabhupāda: No, no, unless understand what is that "anything..." First of all, you have to understand what is that "anything." Anything... Just like this book, this table, this bell, the electric they are so many things. So you can take any one of them; that is anything. What is your idea of anything?

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Ācārya and..., of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under the banner of International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I state that I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja with the result he is the sole responsible person and supreme authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I, the said Mr. So and So, both names, do hereby swear in the name of Kṛṣṇa that I will bear true faith and alliance to the constitution, by-laws, rules, regulations and directions which," and this has been added, "which have been given, including four regulative principles..."

Madhudviṣa: They should be stated too.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Madhudviṣa: The four regulative principles should be stated.

Prabhupāda: No, that may not be. We know, everyone.

Madhudviṣa: We know it, but does someone else know it?

Prabhupāda: Is it necessary to mention?

Rūpānuga: It's a legal document also.

Bhagavān: Yeah, it should be mentioned.

Prabhupāda: Mentioned? Mention.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, future generation. Because the so-called educational institutions, they have produced only fools and rascals.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says you cannot change the society? We want to produce a new society?

Prabhupāda: No new society. A new status of consciousness. We don't want to change anything. We want to change the consciousness because they are in ignorance.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says it is a great service or a help for the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says she has noticed here that if a new person comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he can understand what he can actually do. For example, she was very impressed by the dance troupe last night, and on the night before, the devotees. She's realized that they are dancing. She did not realize before that one can do just about anything for Kṛṣṇa. And she says this place immediately gives that impression, that anyone, in any station, he can be engaged.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are very intelligent.

Girl: Oh. (Laughs)

Prabhupāda: We can engage anyone to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It does not depend on particular education, status of life. It doesn't matter. Ahaitukī. The exact Sanskrit word is ahaituky apratihatā. Ahaitukī means without any cause and without being checked. If anyone wants to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no impediment in the whole world which can check him.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: They must say something concrete.

Prajāpati: Well, the most concrete they get is their dissatisfaction with the present status quo. So in that we're in agreement with them. "Yes, we're dissatisfied with the status quo also, but we are offering alternatives that are..."

Acyutānanda: They're dissatisfied with the people who are sinful.

Paramahaṁsa: Where is their method for changing the status quo?

Acyutānanda: They're not dissatisfied...

Prabhupāda: Method is there, the Ten Commandments, but they won't follow.

Prajāpati: Well, instead of being dissatisfied with the fact that people are sinful...

Prabhupāda: Method is already there in the Bible.

Prajāpati: They're dissatisfied with the fact that the...

Prabhupāda: But they don't follow it.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...not within the Vedic culture. Vedic culture means this varṇāśrama-dharma: four varṇas, four āśrama. And those who are lower than the śūdras, they are not in the Vedic culture. They are called caṇḍālas. Among these caṇḍālas, the mleccha, yavana, are also there. There are. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So they are also caṇḍālas, fifth status. Fourth status, up to śūdra, and then all fifth status. So amongst the fifth status, there are all meat-eaters, without any restriction. And there are dog-eaters. So amongst them, the fifth status, one who eats dog, he is considered most abominable.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would a Vedic king try to prohibit such persons from eating...

Prabhupāda: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...animals of any kind? Would a Vedic king try to prohibit the fifth-class men from eating the animals?

Prabhupāda: No. Animals, you can eat if you like. But there was no slaughterhouse. If you like, you can kill your own animal and eat. That was open. But the state did not maintain any slaughterhouse. And the third-class, fourth-class men, they would eat. So simply by saying that "You don't eat," they will not accept that. They're free, but the state would not maintain the slaughterhouse. At the present moment also, if the slaughterhouse are closed, then immediately seventy-five-percent meat-eating will be stopped. They maintain slaughterhouse. That is the most sinful activity.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Most of them just came from the villages.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Uneducated, half-educated, poor, poverty-stricken. They could not do anything. Some of our Godbrothers I have beat them. (Like Tīrtha) (indistinct). In his previous life he had a big, big business organization. So therefore he has been able to organize. They will admit. They are coming from some third-class status of life. This is not tripe, this is fact.

Paramahaṁsa: Actually, I noticed that myself so many times in the way you handle money and the managerial affairs, very expert.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Śrī-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale, svayaṁ rūpa gosvāmī. Who established the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was minister. He was not a cultivator, plow department.

Paramahaṁsa: It's very difficult in Kali-yuga to get the advanced materialists such as ministers and big businessmen...

Prabhupāda: You can convert. It is not difficulty. How the Rūpa Gosvāmī was converted? Because the expert man... That person was Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So if you become expert, you can convert. How this governor was coming, how these politicians were coming?

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Mother: But what I'm trying to say is there's more evil in the world than goodness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is evil, why you are in this material world? You have accepted evil. Therefore you are in this material world. And if you accept God, the good, then you are in the spiritual world. You don't accept God; you want evil. Therefore you are in the material world. Just like in the jail, prison house, who are they? They are all criminals. Similarly, every one of us who are within this material world, they are all criminals because they have disobeyed the order of God. In different status only, but they are all criminals. Because every one of them is subjected to the rules of nature: birth, death, old age, and disease. So your child is very intelligent. He has taken to this. Now you can do also the same thing, both mother and daughter.

Mother: And his wife.

Gaṇeśa: My wife.

Prabhupāda: Where is your wife?

Gaṇeśa: Melbourne. Śubhalakṣmī-devī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she is also nice.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By taking lesson from professors who has mind clear. Why the students are coming to you? Because his mind is not clear. You have to clear his mind by teaching him psychology, feeling, thinking, feeling, willing. Therefore he has to come to a learned man who knows how to understand mind, how to understand the activities of the mind, how to deal with them. That requires education. A dog cannot take this education, but a human being can take. Therefore it is the duty of the human being, how to control the mind, not act like cats and dogs. That is human being. He should be inquisitive, "Why this happening? Why this happening?" and he should take education. That is human life. And if he does not inquire, if he does not take education, then what is the difference between him and the dog? He remains a dog. He has got this opportunity of human life. He should take advantage of understanding what is what, not to keep himself in the dog status, simply eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending. That is the distinction between dog and human being. If he does not become inquisitive how to control the mind, he is not even a human being. A dog never inquires. A dog knows that "When I bark, people become disturbed." He'll never ask, "How to control this barking habit?" Because he is dog, he cannot do that. A human being can know that "People hates me. I do something wrong. How to control my mind?" That is human being. That is the difference between human being and dog. Therefore Vedic injunction is "Go and inquire. You have got this human form of life." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now, this is the time for inquiring about the soul." Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you want to understand this science, then go to proper guru and take lessons from him. The same thing, as we instruct our children: "If you want to be educated in higher status of life, go to school, go to college, take lesson." That is human society. The dog's father will never ask the dog child, "Go to school." No. They are dogs.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Without religious aspect what is the difference between dog and man? Man can be turned to be a religious man, the dog cannot be. That is the difference between dog and man. So if you keep the human society to the status of dogs and cats, how you can expect peaceful society? If you bring one dozen of dogs and if you want to keep them peacefully, is it possible? So if we keep human society as dogs, then how you can expect peacefulness?

Lt. Mozee: Some of my questions might sound disrespectful. If they do it is only because I do not understand completely your religious beliefs, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not my religious belief. I am just giving you general description of religious life and animal life. The animal cannot be taken to the churches and teach something about God. It is not possible. But a human being can be. So if the human being is refused this facility, then you keep them as cats and dogs. And you cannot expect any peaceful condition of life in the society of cats and dogs. So therefore it is the duty of the authority, of the government, of the elderly person, father, guardian, to teach the subordinate how to become God conscious. Otherwise, there will be trouble because there is no difference between dogs and man in every respect. The dog eats, we eat. The dog sleeps, we sleep. The dog have sex, we have sex. The dog also tries to defend itself, we also try to defend ourself. These are common factors. The only difference is the dog cannot be instructed about his relation with God, but man can be instructed.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Wouldn't that sort of peace be a precursor to a return to religion? Must we not first have peace?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the difficulty. We do not know the meaning of religion. At the present moment the human society does not know what is the meaning of religion. The meaning of religion is to abide by the laws of God, just like a good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state, of the government. Because we have no understanding of God, therefore we do not know what is the laws of God, and therefore we do not know what is religion. That is the present status of the human society. They are forgetting religion. They take religion as a kind of faith. Faith may be blind faith. Faith is not the real description of religion. Religion means the laws which is given by God, and anyone who follows the laws, he is religious. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or a Hindu or Muslim. If he follows the laws of God, then he is religious.

Lt. Mozee: Again I say I mean no disrespect, but in India, where the religious customs have been followed for centuries upon centuries, we are seeing a, not a return, but we are seeing a drawing away. We are seeing a drawing away from the spiritual world and the spiritual life in today's society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is due to bad leadership. Otherwise, Indian mass of people, they are fully conscious of God and they try to follow the laws of God, the mass of people. Here even the big, big professor, they do not believe in God, they do not believe in next life. But India, even the poorest man, he knows that "There is God. There is next life. If I commit sinful life I will suffer. If I live piously, then I shall enjoy." Even the low-grade society, social man, he believes it. Still if there is some disagreement, the village people go to the temple for settlement, and the opposite parties will hesitate to speak lies before the temple, still. So in that respect India is still 80 percent religious, 80 percent religious. That is the special privilege of taking birth in India. That is a fact.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: There is no purport of Devahūti?

Nitāi: "Here the word asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt is significant. Asat means 'impermanent,' 'temporary,' and indriya means 'senses.' Thus asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt means 'from being agitated by the temporarily manifest senses of the material body.' We are evolving through different statuses of material bodily existence sometimes in a human body, sometimes in an animal body—and therefore the engagements of our material senses are also changing. Anything which changes is called temporary, or asat. We should know that beyond these temporary senses are our permanent senses, which are now covered by the material body. The permanent senses, being contaminated by matter, are not acting properly. Devotional service, therefore, involves freeing the senses from this contamination. When the contamination is completely removed and the senses act in the purity of unalloyed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we have reached the sad-indriya, or eternal sense activities. The eternal sensual activities are called devotional service, whereas temporary sensual activities are called sense gratification. Unless one becomes tired of material sense gratification, there is no opportunity to hear transcendental messages from a person like Kapila. Devahūti expressed that she was tired. Now that her husband had left home, she wanted to get relief by hearing the instructions of Lord Kapila."

Prabhupāda: So this full book is the answer and question between mother and son. So, although she is mother, she has given birth to the child, but she has become now dependent on this child for good instruction. This is ideal society.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there in everyone's core of heart, but due to one's material conditional life, he has forgotten it. So this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra means to revive that consciousness. It is already there. Just like a few days ago these American, European boys and girls, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. But now you have seen yesterday how their whole, that procession, throughout the whole procession, how they were chanting and dancing in ecstasy. So do you think that is artificial? No. Artificially nobody can chant and dance for hours together. That means the awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It was there; by the bona fide process, it is now awakened. That is explained,

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dormant in everyone's heart. So when he comes in contact with devotees, that is awakened. Just like to be attracted by a young girl or young boy, it is there in the child. That small child, it is there. And when he will be young, then it will be awakened. It is not that artificial something. So in association it is awakened. The potency is there already, but in good association, by hearing about Kṛṣṇa one is awakened to the status of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Perceptibly we can understand that the body is being changed so long you are within this body. Because if the person, the soul, is not in the body, the body does not change. Body changes so long the soul is there. And as soon as the soul goes out of the body, there is no more change. Is it not perceptible?

Bernard Manischewitz: If the soul goes out of the body...

Prabhupāda: There is no more change. It remains the same. Same status. Why? That means so long the soul is there, changes take place.

Bernard Manischewitz: I see. Thank you very much. I understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes, every intelligent man will understand this very simple thing, that so long as the body..., the soul is within the body, the body is changing. And as soon as this body... Just like you are old man, I am old man, the body is no more possible to be changed; somehow or other then I'll have to accept another body. That is called transmigration. The modern so-called scientists, philosophers, they do not understand this plain truth, and they are passing on as big scientists, big philosopher, misleading public.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Prof. Hopkins: Knowing what gold is.

Prabhupāda: That is the only business of human being, to know the Absolute Truth, God. That is the only business. Otherwise what is the difference between cats and dogs and human being? They do not care to know what is God. So if human being also in the same status, doesn't care to know what is God, then what is the difference between dogs and human being?

Prof. Hopkins: People, various people read your writings, your commentaries, and they, they react to them sometimes with reservation because they see your writings as dogmatic.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Prof. Hopkins: They see your writings... Some people see your writings as dogmatic.

Prabhupāda: Or "He is dogmatic." (laughter)

Prof. Hopkins: They say, "He is dogmatic," okay. Do you feel that you are dogmatic or...

Prabhupāda: No. You find out any passage in my book dogmatic, then you say dogmatic. Any page you open, where is dogmatic?

Prof. Hopkins: Well, dogmatic, to call someone else dogmatic means to start with that you don't agree with what they are saying. If I agree with you and you...

Prabhupāda: No, you have to agree. You open any passage of my book.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say that they can see stars trillions of miles away.

Prabhupāda: But they cannot go. That's a fact. According to their estimation, the moon is the nearest. So they cannot go there. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...deva-vratā devān. Moon is one of the heavenly planets. So unless one is very advanced in karma-kāṇḍa, offering sacrifices, nobody can go there. It is not so easy. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). Those who are more and more higher status of goodness, they are promoted in the highest planet. Not by drinking wine and driving a sputnik one can... (laughter) It is not so easy. (break) ...also drink soma-rasa. The residents of the moon, they live for ten thousand years.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten thousand of their years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, deva.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And their years are equal to six months...

Prabhupāda: Six months equal to one day. Such ten thousand years.

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, another field of study that Werner Von Braun is considering is unidentified flying objects. Now, this previously was not acknowledged by scientists, but he recently stated that when they have sent rockets into outer space they filmed objects that there's no explanation for. They think that they're spaceships from other planets.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How they can know?

Dr. Patel: That is the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: So we... we are bringing them from which status? Yes. You cannot expect that they will be perfect all of a sudden, overnight. It is not possible. But their mind being fixed up on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the first qualification. They do not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Dr. Patel: In our Vaiṣṇava religions this vidhi-niṣedha is a must right from the beginning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is must. It is must. But you cannot force in the beginning. That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: But they have to be explained of it.

Prabhupāda: But if they fix up their mind in Kṛṣṇa, the vidhi-niṣedha automatically will come. That process I adopted. When they came to me I never said that "You don't do this, don't do that, don't do that." No. "You simply come here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." These are... Old students learned. I never said that "You have to follow these rules, these regulations, then you can come..." Because if chanting is properly done, then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)—the mind will be cleansed of all dirty things. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathā kṛṣṇa puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply by hearing and chanting, they will be pious. Hṛdy antaḥ 'stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satām. Kṛṣṇa is there. As soon as He sees one devotee is sincerely chanting, He'll help, cleansing the heart. Vidhunoti... You will read Ajāmila upākhyāna. Simply by chanting Nārāyaṇa...

Dr. Patel: Ajāmila got it.

Prabhupāda: Offenseless.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: Now they are also suffering.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That... That must be. They will be suffering more and more. They will be beggars. They have done so much sinful activities for expanding their empire. Now they will have to become beggars. And within two hundred years, everything finished. They started their exploitation from seventeenth, eighteenth century. And in the twentieth century, everything finished. The French people and the English people... This is also one of the examples. Both the nations came here to exploit. That was the competition in... The French people and the English people, they would go for colonization, fight, and establi... America was also that, Canada, everywhere. But because they were their own men, they were given dominion status. Almost free.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Greedy. Very greedy.

Brahmānanda: At one time all of Africa was controlled by the European nations. Completely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mainly these French and...

Brahmānanda: French, British, Germans, Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In South Africa, the British also tried to take over South Africa. There was a war called the Boer War.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is I am asking. Civilization means not animal. Man, human being, must not be animal. This is the basic principle of civilization.

Dr. Patel: Primary all are animals. They have to advance from animal life to further up. That is the civilization as you say.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I say. So not to remain animal.

Dr. Patel: Yes, not to have status quo.

Prabhupāda: Still it is going on. The junglis, they are not called civilized. They are as good as animals. In India we say jungli he, jungli. And others say uncivilized. So Aryan, Aryan means the most civilized group.

Dr. Patel: But presently, sir, the Aryan race are spread the world over.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Patel: Right from... Aryans are spread the world over right from South America to...

Prabhupāda: They were, they were belonging to the Aryan family. The Europeans, they were also Aryan family, and Indians, the Arabians, Persians, they were all Aryan family. And the Americans they also migrated from Europe. They are also Aryans. But that is familywise. But actually Aryan means one who is advanced in civilization. That is Aryan. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, He addressed him, "non-Aryan." "You are not talking like Aryan." Anārya juṣṭam. "You are talking like non-Aryan." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Aryan means advanced. The first-class civilized men are the Aryans. So that standard of Aryan civilization is to understand God, Viṣṇu, and go back to. This is perfectional. Yato vā imani (indistinct) bhūtāni jayante. To understand it. And again return back to Him. The modern civilization, they are completely unaware of God, neither they know it that going back to home, back to Godhead, is perfection of civilization. This is the defect.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But not here.

Dr. Patel: Ninety percent of the.... Here they are very poor. Those who are in States are rich.

Prabhupāda: You are not poor. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: We are poor as compared to.... We just live, no? Three percent(?) we acquire for our status.(?) We don't require much money.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...death.

Dr. Patel: Death is an artifact. There is no death. That is what Arjuna thought, and now, still, sir, you say they are dead. What is death? There is no death?

Prabhupāda: Arjuna's thought is different. That is Arjuna's thought. I mean these people, these materialists...

Dr. Patel: Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam akledyo aśoṣya eva ca.

Prabhupāda: ...they are actually dying and they are flying also.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: That is why all the great bhaktas, all the great, I mean, say, Narsi Meta(?) or Mirabai, they have worshiped personal God and merged in personal God in toto. Their, that what we call that ego is washed away by the sacred, I mean, this thing of God. Our impersonal philosophers are there, but they are not so well known. That is why he said that personal God and, I mean, worshiping personal God, you are immediately raised to that status from where you will be able to get jñāna.

Prabhupāda: (break) There was one teacher in my school, he used to say that "One who is slow to understand, he is slow to forget also."

Dr. Patel: Yes, that's a fact. It's really a fact.

Prabhupāda: And one who understands quickly and he forgets quickly. So Dr. Patel has understood slowly. So he'll never forget it.

Dr. Patel: But I...

Indian man: Actually that is a fact.

Dr. Patel: I have been very critical within myself. All my.... All my studies, medical, otherwise, I have been always...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes, critical...

Dr. Patel: I have studied even geology.

Prabhupāda: Critical student, that is...

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata. Kārpaṇya-doṣa (BG 2.7). "It was my duty to understand myself, and I am thinking of my these nonsense relatives—my grandfather, my son. What is this? I know that. What I can do by thinking about them? It may be they have come to war. But suppose they would have died naturally—what could I do? So why I am perplexed with these things? I know the defect. I cannot cause their death or birth or existence. It is beyond my jurisdiction. And still, I am anxious: If I kill them, then what would happen? What would happen?" You kill or not kill, they'll be killed, today or tomorrow. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). A learned man knows that the body will be finished, the bodily action, today or tomorrow. So what is to lament after this body? Lamentation is that the person within the body, whether he's going to hell or heaven. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti or tamo gacchanti. That is real concern. Body will be finished, today or tomorrow or after a hundred years. Who can protect it? But one should be interested with the owner of the body, where he is going, what is his next position. And that is clearly stated: adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). So you are interested to go up or down or remain in the same status. There are three status: up, down, and the same.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: General mass of people think that life is finished with this body. They're unaware of up or down...

Prabhupāda: Therefore.... Therefore, they're rascals. And for the rascals, the Bhagavad-gītā teaching is there. Learn! They are giving the stress on the body, that "The body is finished, everything finished." They do not know beyond the body. But the real knowledge begins, "No, you are beyond this body." That is real knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Any other knowledge except this, that is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you very much. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā. Dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi, "Sex life which is not against religious principles, I am that." Not that sex life, as soon as you like, sex. That is not gṛhastha. That is gṛhamedhī. Dharmāviruddha. Dharma-aviruddha means simply for begetting nice child you can have..., not for enjoyment. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. This is Vedic principle. Putraḥ-piṇḍa-prayojanam. A bhāryā, wife, is accepted only for having son. Not for any other purpose. Putraḥ-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This is material side, but still, it is religious. First education is brahmacārī, how to train him to avoid sex life. And still if he's not able, then he is allowed to become a gṛhastha, a little concession. Otherwise, the whole Vedic civilization is: how to avoid sex life. Brahmacārī—no sex life. Vānaprastha—no sex life. Sannyāsa—no sex life. Only gṛhastha, under control. That is gṛhastha. Gṛhastha does not mean one who is doing everything whimsically on account of getting this concession. He's not gṛhastha, he's gṛhamedhī. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam... (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī means he does not know what is spiritual life. That is gṛhamedhī. And gṛhastha means he knows what is spiritual life, and he lives on that status. That is gṛhastha. Gṛhamedhī's definition is.... Everything is there in the śāstra. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. They do not know what is the aim of life. It is like something, something like cats and dogs. They do not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). (break) So he'll speak to you. You know English, you can read books.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then we shall judge the quality of necessity. That is another thing. First of all necessities, then quality.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: First of all we have to understand that one who has no necessity, he's in the lowest status. One who has got necessity, he is in higher status.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then higher, higher, higher, higher—where's the higher status? When you necessitate Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. That necessity, that without Govinda I'm feeling everything vacant. That is necessity. That makes it finer (indistinct).

Devotee (1): Is this the anna-maya, prāṇa-maya, mano-maya, like that?

Prabhupāda: There are so many stages. Here is the highest status. Govinda-viraheṇa me. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa. "For want of Govinda, I am thinking one moment as twelve years." Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam. "I'm crying like torrents of rain from my eyes." This is the highest necessity. This is also necessity. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛ.... Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. "I don't see anything. Everything is vacant." And that we have experience. If somebody whom you love very much, he dies, you think, "I don't want anything. World is vacant." I've no necessity but Kṛṣṇa. This is also necessity.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So, when you are free from sinful life and the reaction of sinful life, then you are immediately on the spiritual platform. So here Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He assures that "You simply surrender unto Me, and I immediately excuse you for all your sinful life." So it can be done in one second. It doesn't take much time. One second. He says "immediately." But we don't want that, that is the difficulty. Read the purport.

Hṛdayānanda: "The Lord has described various kinds of knowledge, processes of religion, knowledge of the Supreme Brahman, knowledge of the Supersoul, knowledge of the different types of orders and statuses of social life, knowledge of the renounced order of life, knowledge of nonattachment, sense and mind control, meditation, etc. He has described in so many ways different types of religion. Now in summarizing Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord says that Arjuna should give up all the processes that have been explained to him; he should simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That surrender will save him from all kinds of sinful reactions, for the Lord personally promises to protect him. In the Eighth Chapter it was said that only one who has become free from all sinful reactions can take to the worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Fuller's earth. That is wanted, Fuller's earth.

Mādhavānanda: Actually the previous owner of this house, he wanted to make this a restaurant, a very posh restaurant on the waterfront, and he applied for many, many months to get permission from the city. And finally he got it. So actually we have restaurant status here. It would be very easy for us to start a restaurant. People would come.... When people see the house, they are so amazed.

Hari-śauri: That would be a big attraction—a waterside restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Hmm, yes.

Mādhavānanda: We could have tables and chairs on the grounds.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not going to do that. Better make it a doll exhibition. And give them prasāda free. Restaurant in the city, that is all right. Not here. Nobody will come to the restaurant from the city. That is not possible. But we give them free prasāda. (japa) (break)

Makhanlāl: ...Prabhupāda, you mentioned that soon there will not be so much use for automobiles. What will be our means of spreading the saṅkīrtana movement?

Prabhupāda: We shall walk. You'll have good exercise. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, one brāhmaṇa, half brāhmaṇa will do. Only one hand will do.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "According to Ṛddha dāsa brahmacārī, head of the local mission, the festival of the chariots glorifies Lord Jagannātha. The Lord of the universe and the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra by people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds in cities in the world over has turned into a truly international event. Durban, with its large Hindu population, is aware of the divine status of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and we pray that by organizing our own chariot festival, we will be able to extend our message to a wider audience."

Prabhupāda: Do it immediately; they are eager. Begin this year. Yes, they'll get life, the Hindus. Immediately advise them. Just like I began in San Francisco on the truck. You know that? So you can begin in that way.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was the first ratha cart?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I suggested Śyāmasundara that on a truck you make a ratha-like dome, and put this. It was successful.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was in New York?

Prabhupāda: It was San Francisco. The first beginning was in San Francisco.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Disciplined.

Prabhupāda: Discipline, yes.

Devotee (1): As well as self-controlled.

Prabhupāda: So in order to go to the highest status of life, he has to accept some austerity, tapasya. Especially for God realization. Austerity required. Then?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purity.

Prabhupāda: Purity. So our purity.... Not our—everyone. Externally, internally. Externally, by taking bath or cleansing the body with soap of something else. And internally, to remain God conscious.

Kern: Internally to what?

Prabhupāda: Remain God conscious.

Scheverman: Remain God conscious.

Prabhupāda: Simply washing externally will not help us. Therefore our mantra of purity is bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: So that means then that our society then gives certain people certain status just because of their job, that's not correct.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We must come to the correct position of our spiritual life, then it is perfection of life. Otherwise, they're ignorant. If the husband comes at home and the wife calls him by the name, "John, come here." "Oh, you are not addressing 'my lord,' " it will be ridiculous. He might be "my lord," in the court, but when he's in the family, the wife calls by the name. So our, with the change of dress we are changing our name, circumstances, thoughts, and everything. Therefore we find differentiation. American, Indian, Hindu, Muslim, black, white, this, these are all designation of the dress. And therefore we do not agree. As soon as I accept, identify myself with the dress, there will be disagreement. And as soon as we, everyone of us, we know that this is superficial, this is dress, I am spirit soul, then there will be agreement. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, find out this verse. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). So without this understanding they have opened United Nations, keeping them cats and dogs. And they are simply barking, that's all. This is going on. For the last forty years simply they are barking. What achievement is there? In your country, who is the president gave the black man same liberty?

Jayādvaita: Lincoln.

Prabhupāda: Lincoln. Equal right, but actually, there is some tension, black and white. Because they are not on the spiritual platform.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: It is ours?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is printed by the Indian community, one man, Anand Singh, and he included part of an article from the Back to Godhead magazine. There's one article in here also, the front page is a whole.... There's a racket they had going, these people, this man. He went to India and he found one widow, and he said, "I am a personal friend of the Prime Minister of Canada. Give me money, I'll take you to Canada. You can come. I'll make sure you get immigration status." So she came with him to Canada, and then he started blackmailing her, "Give me this much money every day, otherwise I'll reveal that you're an illegal immigrant, and you'll be in trouble with the government." And eventually it became such a burden that he simply killed her, cut her into three pieces and killed her. Then they found parts of different bodies like this, and they finally found the man.

Prabhupāda: The woman was killed?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this happened in Toronto. Wretched world. (long pause) (break) He writes what appears to be a nice editorial, "Weak Western Educational System"—it's on the second page—in which he brings out how the Indians have taken the worst from the West, namely it's educational system.

Prabhupāda: It is my version?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but I think he has gotten this from you, the idea of Vedic education. You're the only person preaching this in the world, practically. He's certainly read some of your books, Prabhupāda. (break)

Viśvakarmā: He said, "We heard that your spiritual master's coming to town. We'd like to put part of one of the articles from BTG in our paper." Did he put in any advertisement? Oh, I'm surprised. He said, "I'd also like to put an advertisement in the paper." Then he asked, he said he wanted to charge us money for the advertisement. So I told him, I said, "You're from India. You should want to do this for free." He wouldn't do it.

Hari-śauri: They use part of your article to advertise Indian culture. This "Could Plato have gotten his ideas from ancient Indian Vedas?" And at the same time they won't even give a free advertisement when you, the speaker of the article, is here in person.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have refused to pay.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: At least those who are above fifty years old. That is Vedic civilization. Pañcasordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. One who is over fifty years of age, vanaṁ vrajet. So vanaṁ vrajet means completely retired from family responsibilities and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is compulsory according to Vedic civilization.

Pradyumna: "These four items are by far inferior to engagement in the devotional service of the Lord. Śrī Vyāsadeva as the authorized scholar knew very well this difference, and still, instead of giving more importance to the better type of engagement, namely the devotional service of the Lord, he had more or less improperly used his valuable time, and thus he was despondent. From this it is clearly indicated that no one can be pleased substantially without being engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā this fact is clearly mentioned. After liberation, which is the last item in the line of performing religiosity, etc., one is engaged in pure devotional service. This is called the stage of self-realization or brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. After attainment of this brahma-bhūta stage one is satisfied, but satisfaction is the beginning of transcendental bliss. One should progress by attaining neutrality and equality in the relative world. In passing this stage of equanimity, one is fixed up in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. This is the instruction of the Personality of Godhead in the Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that in order to maintain the status quo of the brahma-bhūta stage, as also to increase the degree of transcendental realization, it is recommended by Nārada to Vyāsadeva that he, Vyāsadeva, should now eagerly and repeatedly describe the path of devotional service. This would cure him from gross despondency."

na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo
jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit
tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā
na yatra haṁsā niramanty uśikkṣayāḥ
(SB 1.5.10)

"Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows."

Prabhupāda: Just like the modern newspaper. Huge bundle of newspaper every morning, huh? So it is, as it is said here, the place of enjoyment for the crows. What is that?

Pradyumna: Vāyasaṁ tīrtham.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution to train people to acquire these transcendental qualities? There is no such institution. We are attempting to qualify the man in transcendental qualities. This is the only institution. Otherwise, where it is? I don't think, throughout the whole world, there is any institution to train the students in transcendental qualities. Who cares for transcendental qualities? Go on.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In the varṇāśrama institution the sannyāsī, or the person in the renounced order of life, is considered to be the head or the spiritual master of all the social statuses and orders. A brāhmaṇa is considered to be the spiritual master of the three other sections of society, namely the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra. But a sannyāsī, who is on the top of the institution, is considered to be the spiritual master of the brāhmaṇas also. For a sannyāsī the first qualification should be fearlessness. Because a sannyāsī has to be alone without any support or guarantee of support, he has simply to depend on the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he thinks 'After leaving my connections, who will protect me?' he should not accept the renounced order of life. One must be fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His localized aspect as Paramātmā, is always within, and He is seeing everything, and that He always knows what one intends to do. One must have this firm conviction that Kṛṣṇa as Paramātmā will take care of a soul surrendered unto Him. 'I shall never be alone,' one should think..."

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Don't divert your attention.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: " 'I shall never be alone,' one should think. 'Even if I live in the darkest regions of a forest, I shall be accompanied by Kṛṣṇa, and He will give me all protection.' That conviction is called abhayam, 'without fear.' This state of mind is necessary for a person in the renounced order of life. Then he has to purify his existence. There are so many rules and regulations to be followed in the renounced order of life. Most important of all, a sannyāsī is strictly forbidden to have any intimate relationship with a woman. He is even forbidden to talk with a woman in a secluded place. Lord Caitanya was an ideal sannyāsī, and when He was at Purī His feminine devotees could not even come near to offer their respects. They were advised to bow down from a distant place. This is not a sign of hatred for women as a class, but it is a stricture imposed on a sannyāsī not to have close connections with women. One has to follow the rules and regulations of a particular status of life in order to purify his existence. For a sannyāsī, intimate relations with a woman and possessions of wealth for sense gratification are strictly forbidden. The ideal sannyāsī was Lord Caitanya Himself, and we can learn from His life that He was very strict in regards to women. Although He is considered to be the most liberal incarnation of Godhead, accepting the most fallen conditioned souls, He strictly followed the rules and regulations of the sannyāsa order of life in connection with association with women. One of His personal associates, namely Choṭa Haridāsa, was personally associated with Lord Caitanya along with His other confidential personal associates. But somehow or other this Choṭa Haridāsa looked lustfully on a young woman, and Lord Caitanya was so strict that He at once rejected him from the society of His personal associates. Lord Caitanya said, 'For a sannyāsī, or anyone who is aspiring to get out of the clutches of material nature and trying to elevate himself to the spiritual nature and go back to home, back to Godhead, for him, looking towards material possessions and women for sense gratification—not even enjoying them, but just looking toward them with such a propensity—is so condemned that he had better commit suicide before experiencing such illicit desires.' So these are the processes for purification. The next item is jñāna-yoga-vyavasthitiḥ: being engaged in the cultivation of knowledge. Sannyāsī life is meant for distributing knowledge to the householders and others who have forgotten their real life of spiritual advancement. A sannyāsī is supposed to beg from door to door for his livelihood, but that does not mean that he is a beggar. Humility is also one of the qualifications of a transcendentally situated person, and out of sheer humility the sannyāsī goes from door to door, not exactly for the purpose of begging but to see the householders and awaken them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the duty of a sannyāsī. If he is actually advanced and so ordered by his spiritual master, he should preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness with logic and understanding."

Prabhupāda: As a gentleman, if you go to somebody's house, you require his permission, but India, still, a sannyāsī doesn't require any permission. He can enter in any householder's house: "Mother, give me some food." This is the introduction. Not that he has gone there for food, but easy introduction. And generally the householder will receive a sannyāsī, "Yes, Swamiji, come here, sit down." They will offer obeisances and then they begin talks. This is the meaning. Not that he is hankering after food. This is only introduction. He's not a beggar. But people take advantage of this dress because they think that "Without any work I can beg and live." That is going on in India. So many rascals, they are taking this sannyāsī dress and living at the cost of others. Therefore people have become disgusted. They have no knowledge to preach. Yes, go on.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So he has said already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru to instruct him how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is successful. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means accept Kṛṣṇa as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am Kṛṣṇa." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is necessary. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we are equal status. Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit." Therefore he said, "Now, Kṛṣṇa, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is disciple. That is final. There is no argument. So Arjuna put him into that position that "I cease to talk with You on equal level of friends. Now I accept You as guru."

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What is the use of such things? If you particularly study that this living entity is now in this mode, say goodness fifty percent and passion ten percent, in this way, but it can change at any moment. You cannot fix it up.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is good, because if we argue this we can always defeat this concept of evolution. Our main point is to defeat the concept of evolution.

Prabhupāda: No, no, evolution is already there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Evolution means material evolution, from chemicals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not evolution. The species are already there, 8,400,000. Now the living entity is changing the position. The status is already there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but they don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: They don't understand. That is their foolishness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that's why we want to bring up this point that...

Prabhupāda: You can bring up. This is the position. Just like there are apartments are already there. Sometimes I am coming here, sometimes going there, but this is the position. I'm not fixed up. Similarly, living entity, as soon as he changes his mind, the apartment is ready. Here is your position. Again he changes, "Here, here is your position." They are already there. Not that for him especially being created. The species are already there. As soon as he fixes himself up particular species, he's transferred, daiva-netreṇa karmaṇā. He gets a similar body, "Come on, here, take this body." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). These are explained. So he's transmigrating, he's not fixed up. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). He gets, by his desire, he gets a particular body. Then after some time he changes to another body.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That we, we take Kṛṣṇa as the bigger power.

Guest (2): Sure, we have to take. This is my... We have to take a bigger power. Otherwise...

Prabhupāda: So if we take Kṛṣṇa as bigger power, there is no controversy. Whatever He says you have to accept.

Guest (2): No, we have to take like this. Just like we have to take even some of this, any statement you make, we are going to take it because we think people of your status, who have experienced the life, which I didn't do, they are the authority on that thing.

Prabhupāda: No, if you accept Kṛṣṇa authority, then at least He is bigger than you.

Guest (2): Yes, sure. Not only authority on this thing. Because they have experienced, they have gone through that stage. And definitely we have to, because the..., just like from a teacher a boy learns, and it is that method. You have to learn from a higher person.

Prabhupāda: So you do accept Kṛṣṇa as the highest authority, and not only you accept, but all other authorities, they accept. Find out this verse. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12).

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And you are journalist, you are not expected to become a motor mechanic or a medical man. But your function is also required in the society. Similarly, the Vedic society was divided into different sections. That is called varṇāśrama-four varṇas, four āśramas. That is very scientific. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this system of division of society. It is perfect society. Therefore we are trying to introduce the varṇāśrama system, although it is very difficult nowadays. But if one becomes a devotee, which is above varṇāśrama-dharma, then the purpose is solved. In this age, although varṇāśrama-dharma is very scientific, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this, but we are mostly trying to get to the topmost part of varṇāśrama, sannyāsa, or above that. That means Vaiṣṇava. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). One can immediately transcend the jurisdiction of three modes of material nature if he engages himself in the devotional service of the Lord.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

So actually this varṇāśrama system is meant for bringing the man in the lower status of life to the higher status of life. It doesn't matter one is born in a low-grade family. That is also said by Kṛṣṇa: māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower grade. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). In the human society, woman, the vaiśya and the śūdra, they are considered in the lower status, not very intelligent. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. They can also become... So in the Western countries, according to Vedic calculation, they are mlecchas, yavanas, low grade. But Kṛṣṇa says ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, "He can also be elevated, to that extent as he can go back to home, back to Godhead." So this movement is directly giving the opportunity of Kṛṣṇa's service so that they can become immediately bona fide to the position in the highest grade of life, Vaiṣṇava, so that he can go back to home, back to Godhead.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: "Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction."

Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same. This is to be understood first of all. What is the difficulty? First of all, you must distinguish what is spirit, what is matter. Material culture means this body is there, it requires some necessities. The body must be given something to eat. Is it not? Eating? Then the body must be given some rest, sleeping, for which we require some apartment, some place. Not we, but also even the animals, birds, they have got their nest, or the animal has got some hole or something. So eating, sleeping, and some sense gratification, sex. These are bodily necessities. But when you understand what is spirit, then we must try to find out what the spiritual necessity is. That is spiritual culture. You cannot go on with the bodily culture as spiritual culture. That is a mistake.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: So freedom means freedom from all these designations. I am spirit, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am spirit soul, my business is spiritual activity. So long we want to keep designation, you'll have to accept material body and suffer. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to educate people how to become free from designations. Therefore we accept from any group. If I think that he is under designation... But our business is to make him free from the designation. We therefore welcome anyone. He may come with designation, but if he lives with us, he follows our rules and regulations, he becomes free from designation. And this so-called designated religious system will not help us. If we keep ourself on the designated platform—I am American, I am Indian, I am Iranian, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian, I am Buddhist—then we have to continue in that designation. There is no question of freedom. That requires tapasya. That designationless status is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. And the opposite of brahma-bhūtaḥ is jīva-bhutaḥ. Jīva-bhutaḥ, there are so many jīvas, living entities. The dog is thinking, "I am dog." And the bird is thinking, "I am bird." The man is thinking, "I am Hindu, I am Muslim." So this designation, you may be a dog designation or Hindu designation, or Muslim, they are the same. There is no difference. Maybe some degrees. But one has to become designationless. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then bhakti. When one is designationless. If he wants to keep his designation, then there is no question of bhakti. The bhakti line is so nice that if you take to bhakti line, automatically you'll be designationless. Now you have to decide whether you want to keep designation or become free from designation.
Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: In our experience we have no understanding how this can be practical, because we think that meat is good for our strength. How can we be strong?

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are not human being, you are animal. If you cannot produce your food, uncivilized animals, they cannot produce their food. But you are given the chance of becoming human being, if you cannot produce your food, if you do not know how to cook food, how to offer it, then you are not human being. You are animal. When the uncivilized man in the jungle, they did not know how to produce food, they used to kill animals. So if you want to remain in the same uncivilized status of life, then where you are human being? You have got greater intelligence, you produce your food. Why should you kill animal like the uncivilized jungle men? Your action is just like jungle man, and you are claiming to be civilized man.

Nava-yauvana: They are thinking that they are the proprietor.

Prabhupāda: That is their folly, they are not proprietor. They are not proprietor. That is already discussed. Proprietor is the Supreme Lord; you are not proprietor. That is another point. Falsely you are claiming proprietor. How you are proprietor? Everyone can claim proprietor, that is going on. Everyone is claiming proprietor and they are fighting. That is going on. And if you accept God is proprietor and we are dependent on Him, then there is no fight. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, this īśa, īśāvāsyam verse is perfectly describing, tena tyaktena, you are not proprietor. You accept things what the proprietor has given you, allotted for you. You are not proprietor. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Do not encroach upon others. Then how you become proprietor? We are falsely claiming proprietorship, we are encroaching upon others' independence. This is our business.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then you are animal, because animal has no rationality. Then you are animal. Better not to talk with you. What is the use of talking with you? You are animal. You have no rationality. Man is rational animal, this is the definition. You have no rationality, therefore you are animal. What is the use of talking with you? Waste time. If you have no rationality, then you are animal. That is the difficulty. People are kept in the status of animal and they are expected human behavior. How it is possible? It is not possible. So therefore our endeavor is to bring them to the standard of humanity, real humanity. Then there will be peace, prosperity, everything all right. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You don't care for rationality, that means you are animal. Man is rational animal, that is the definition. If you have no rationality... Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ... This is Vedic injunction. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samāna. Anyone who has no religious principles, he's animal. Therefore you'll find in human society, it doesn't matter whether it is Iran or India or Europe, there is some religion. Because without religion they are animals. Animal has no religion. The animal is... Dog is dog. It is not a Christian dog or a Hindu dog. Hindu, Christian comes when they are human being. So a civilized society must be the rationality, religion. Religion is rationality, to accept God. What is religion? Religion means to accept God.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is bhakti. Just like Arjuna, he was a soldier but he fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is a military art. For his personal, he refused, "No, no, I am not going to fight with my relatives." But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants it, he did it. So anything, if we dovetail with Kṛṣṇa's service, that becomes bhakti. (indistinct) Just like Kṛṣṇa is saying, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Anyone who is offering in devotion a little leaf, little flower, little water, "I accept." So Kṛṣṇa is not poverty-stricken that He wants from me something but He wants your bhakti, that you become a devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. He wants that. So if the poorest man also gives something in bhakti, Kṛṣṇa accepts it. So that does not mean that I have got money, Kṛṣṇa is satisfied with little flower, so give little flower to Kṛṣṇa and enjoy this money for my sense gratification. (chuckles) That is cheating. That is cheating. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you do, kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam, give Me that," and that is bhakti. So whatever position we may be in, if our life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. That is bhakti, it doesn't matter what is his status, qualification. Kṛṣṇa is unlimitedly everything. Just like we are spending lakhs and crores in this, for this purpose. They may say that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied with patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ (BG 9.26), why you are spending so much money? The idea is that when there is money, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa patraṁ puṣpaṁ toyaṁ, that is cheating. Kṛṣṇa knows it. If you have got money, then you must spend—a gorgeous temple for Kṛṣṇa. That is proper utilization. Not the money is kept for my separate use and Kṛṣṇa may be offered a little leaf and water. According to one's position, he must worship Kṛṣṇa. So Bombay is so rich, therefore you are collecting.

Morning Walk Conversation About Bombay -- August 29, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The smaller one from France and the bigger one from America. International.

Indian man: And their parents also there.

Prabhupāda: They are also here. We are a society, so the gṛhasthas are there, brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, vānaprastha. All status of life. Missionaries, they have got only sannyāsīs. We have got all.

Indian man: The other missionaries?

Prabhupāda: Just like Ramakrishna Mission. They have got only sannyāsīs. No gṛhasthas. But we have got gṛhasthas also.

Children: Go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: You go this way, I shall go this way.

Children: Go this way!

Prabhupāda: No, you go this way.

Children: No, you go this way.

Prabhupāda: No, you go. We shall go this way. There is no place in the car. You go this way.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Uddhava.

Indian man (3): And there I felt, I thought that whenever we meet I'll bring up this question with you. 'Cause the way in which it has been translated in Hindi which I read it does create a little question as to what Bhagavān Himself said about the status of the soul, the individual soul, and relationship, (indistinct). Because although I think I should have got it, they don't give it to the life members.

Pradyumna: Yes, Bhāgavatam, we're up to the Seventh Canto now in the printing. Yes, the canto has come out. So Saptama-skandha, pādyokta. We're up to that.

Indian man (3): Now, well then if it is, if the member is (indistinct). Now in the Eleventh there is...

Prabhupāda: Eleventh Canto, yes. When you will remember the verse?

Indian man (3): No, no, number (indistinct) again and again I had gone to (indistinct) and as to that, ultimately there is no difference. As soon as this (indistinct) when it comes. I would like this because I belong to the sect of our country, middle sect, from Swami Narayana. He's based on Rāmānujācārya philosophy which says that all the souls are there, they are the body of the creator Bhagavān. Just as the human ātmā has a body, this means there is the difference also identity. Identity is one and yet they have their own place. That have been the faith (indistinct). Now in many places this sometimes this differentiation remains, sometimes there is things said which wipe it out. I thought you would be the best person to give a guidance...

Prabhupāda: As you say that, Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gita, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). We living entities, we are part and parcel of God. Aṁśa. So any common man can understand.... (end)

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That solves all the problems.

Prabhupāda: No, solves or not solves, we shall see later on. But this is the principle. This is the principle. Solution, if we do not become very simple servant of Kṛṣṇa, problems will increase. It will never be solved. If you have got any other desire than to serve Kṛṣṇa, then the problems will increase. It will never decrease. Therefore bhakti begins, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). No other purpose than to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is only purpose. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). So our only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa in His original status as Kṛṣṇa, and in His other status as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in both ways, He's insisting to preach. That is a very important business. Neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu nor Kṛṣṇa has recommended that you become a great devotee and sit down in a place and talk big, big words and simply eat and sleep. Kṛṣṇa has never said. That is not Kṛṣṇa's neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu's business. That is not required. Boro boro bado bado phet lanka mata kore het.(?) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." There are very many big, big bellies in Vṛndāvana, but if they're asked to preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission all over the world—melancholy. Melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. So you have taken a very great mission that world preaching, that is very, very nice decision. So you have got buses and you have got capacity. You do this. And one in Germany, one in India, come and go, come and go. What do you think?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. Then I want to do that, but there are some problems which I'm experiencing.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Haṁsadūta: Well, for instance, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa has the habit of deporting my men to different centers, even against their will.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't have that habit.

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All the Vaiṣṇavas, they are expert. Just like Rūpa, Sanātana, expert manager. Even in worldly affairs. Not that "I am so much big devotee that I cannot manage worldly affairs." Expert, must be expert. Dakṣa. (pause) So she can give me the fruits now. So... (break) ...intelligent policy to kill India's spiritual status.

Haṁsadūta: To kill India's spiritual status?

Prabhupāda: That was their policy. Because there was one Britisher politician, Lord McCauley. His report was, he studied the whole Indian situation. They were very expert politicians. He reported that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them. They must be trained up in such a way that they would think their own culture as useless; this Western culture is very good. That impression must be there. Otherwise, you cannot rule over them." So the education and everything was going on very silently on this principle.

Haṁsadūta: Imperceptibly they introduced this.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is their administration. And that was going on for the last two hundred years. So India lost. (break) ...educated persons they lost. And the mass of people, they were not educated. They have not lost, but they don't find any good example by the leaders.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What he is for them?

Girirāja: He is their municipal councillor. He is the representative for this area in the municipal corporation, elected. So actually this came up before and at that time we met the municipal commissioner that they are trying to put this condition. So he agreed that this should be a, you know, decided by the court or by some third party and not, he will not do anything to change the status quo by forcing us. So we have to put that in the letter. And (break) ...hitch. Not a hitch exactly but there's this urban land ceiling that anyone who has more than 500 square yards property, that comes under the ceiling. So we are exempt because we are a charitable trust and apart from that, in the final plan, most of the land will be built up, it won't be vacant. But in order to get the sanction, we have to get either an N.O.C. (No Objection Certificate) that we are exempt from the ceiling or an exemption to get the N.O.C. So we have to meet some higher official. So I have to finalise it but I'm supposed to contact the architect and we have to go and see about this. Actually the management is so bad there that they have made this requirement that any new building, you have to get N.O.C. regarding the land ceiling. But so far they have not given one N.O.C. for land ceiling because they are not yet decided what is the policy to give the N.O.C. So they simply are piling up the applications until they decide their policy. So first we will try to get exemption that we don't require this N.O.C. Then if we fail in that then I suppose we have to meet the minister and ask him to give us the N.O.C.

Prabhupāda: So why not meet the minister?

Girirāja: Huh?

Prabhupāda: Why not meet the minister?

Girirāja: Yes.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nothing is his personal.

Hari-śauri: ...then you become designated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is conditioned. The Vṛndāvana life means the gopīs, the cowherd boys, the cowherdsmen, the elderly men, Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodārāṇī, his (her) status, every-cows, calves, trees, flowers, Yamunā—everyone is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vṛndāvana. They have no other business. That is Vṛndāvana. Everywhere, the whole description of the Kṛṣṇa book, center is Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, Kṛṣṇa book's so nice.

Prabhupāda: That is Vṛndāvana life, either in rasa dance or the cowherd's play or killing the demons or in dining and dancing. The friends are eating, they are being stolen by Brahmā—but the center is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. All activities are going on, just like in other place. But here in Vṛndāvana, all activities centered around Kṛṣṇa. When Brahmā is stealing His friends, the center is Kṛṣṇa. The demon is coming to destroy—the center is Kṛṣṇa. When there is forest fire, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana beauty. In happiness, in danger, in perplexities, in friendship—everything Kṛṣṇa. Kāliya-damana. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has gone to Yamunā. He has fallen down in the..., to fight the Kāliya." It is a very, what is called, calamity. But still, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. "Kṛṣṇa has entered Yamunā to fight with Kāliya." It is not at all good news for Mother Yaśodā, Nanda, friends and family, not at all. Their life is lost. But still the Kṛṣṇa is center. This is Vṛndāvana life. In everything Kṛṣṇa is center, anything. We are having just like: "Kṛṣṇa's a bad propaganda," opposition.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is also another foolishness. How much water he'll carry by pipe? (aside:) Where is pole. Take water from God. That is sufficient. Navadit tarims ca.(?) When there is water supplied by God, where there is no need of water there will be water. Just like on the hills, on the mountains, there is no need of water. In the ocean there is no need of water. But the God... "All right, take water here also." That is God's gift. You rascal, how much water you have got that you transport by pipe and this and that...? All rascals. Mūḍha. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. That is my language, always these are all rascals. Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion. They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent. You are so educated." Not human being. Just like dog receives his master, "Gow, gow, gow, gow." (makes growling sounds) So what is that reception, dog's reception? Similarly, these intelligent men are intelligent amongst a class of men who are compared with dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. If some man praises them that "You are so big. You are so big leader," he's also amongst this group. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. This is grave thing. Let understand it, that anyone who is godless, who has no idea what is God, he is a rascal. Immediately take him that he's a rascal. He may be prime minister, he may be president, he may be scientist, but we shall take him as rascal number one. This is our first understanding. Bokā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, bokā. So at that time I was thinking, "Everyone is bokā?" (laughing) Guru Mahārāja says, "Everyone..." "Even Rabindranath Tagore, he is also bokā?" Later on I could under..., "Yes. Everyone is bokā."

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi is a Gujarati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he went to South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. South Af... He had no practice here. One attorney, he told me in Bombay that "Your Gandhi was waiting for cases here, sitting in this chair." He was not even successful lawyer. Then he got a case in Africa. He thought it wise, "Let me go there." And there, instead of becoming a lawyer, he became a political agitator. So to take equal status for the Indians he fought there. And that was failure. Still it is going on. They are very determined not to give any advantage to anyone except these whites.

Hari-śauri: They know as soon as they give little leeway, then their whole government will be finished.

Prabhupāda: Very strict. Still, they purchase my books.

Brahmānanda: The whites.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: They were... I think the first time you went there they even were bowing down...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...in the airport. And this caused big sensation, because never, even when big Indian gurus have come to South Africa, never have any whites bowed down. It was the first time whites bowed down to...

Prabhupāda: They clapped. After hearing me they clapped. They purchased books. Now they are selling books. So I think my books are more important. We shall give more concentration for pushing on and publishing. What do you think?

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any devotee in literary career, he is to be understood... Just like our Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura. He is described as incarnation of Vyāsadeva because Vyāsadeva wrote Bhāgavatam and he wrote Caitanya-bhāgavata.

Pradyumna: Vyāsa-pūjā.

Prabhupāda: Vyāsa-pūjā. Vyāsa-prasādam. Unless one is blessed by Vyāsadeva, he cannot write transcendental literature. So now you have very good cook. Kīrtana is going on. It is Vaikuṇṭha. Maintain this status very nicely. You can. You are... From the very beginning you are... Do it very nicely. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. If devotees chant always, that is Kṛṣṇa or Vaikuṇṭha. Tatra tiṣṭhā... Tatra tiṣṭhāmi. Yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. They must be pure devotee and always talk about Kṛṣṇa, chant about Kṛṣṇa. Then it is Vaikuṇṭha. What about this generator? Is it going to work or not?

Jayapatākā: I'm not sure. I don't know who was working on that today. I just got back myself. There was some... They're hooking up, I think, the wires.

Prabhupāda: It must work. Otherwise...

Jayapatākā: Oh, it's guaranteed it will work. The electric supply officer was on a three-day leave, I heard. Therefore he couldn't make the...

Prabhupāda: Connection.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Why not get help from some Indian lawyer?

Ādi-keśava: Some are willing to help us. This one man Din Agnihotri from Southern University Law School, he helped us make the basis of the case. But most of the Indian lawyers, they will not help us.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Ādi-keśava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gītā for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Give me.

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad. So rather than... There are some devotees who are saying we should stand together in an alliance with them. But every time I am asked in the press or anything, I say the same thing again, "No. We have nothing to do with them. We have nothing..." Because I am afraid that we will be dragged down with them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: They are rascals, and eventually they are going to be exposed.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: They'll be finished for certain.

Prabhupāda: We want they should be finished. (laughs)

Ādi-keśava: Right. Sometimes Mukunda, for instance, was saying that we should make an alliance, and then we can have more strength. But I said, "No. When we do that... We are pure, we are genuine, and they are artificial."

Prabhupāda: Yes. We should keep our purity.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Because that stool and urine is also useful. Cow is so important. They'll eat and they'll pass stool and urine. That is also important. If they supply milk, it is well, very good. Otherwise the stool and urine is also important. From that point of view we should give protection. So they are doing this cow slaughter business. (aside:) For you. Therefore they are suffering so much. So Kṛṣṇa has given you very nice occupation, translation work, and you are earning your livelihood independently. So do it very nicely. And if there is strain to work, then don't work. We shall pay you for the rent, etc... It doesn't matter. But you must maintain your status of translating work. That is very good. If you can work, you can work. Otherwise don't worry.

Bali-mardana: Just like we were paying Hayagrīva something just to maintain to edit, so he could edit. And if he wants to just translate, then we can...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hayagrīva wife has come? No.

Rāmeśvara: No, she has left.

Prabhupāda: Then what is his maintaining? (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: That is... He is deviating a little.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: He's enjoying a little bit the senses.

Prabhupāda: So that is not very good idea.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: The first thing we did this morning was this resolution: Pañcadraviḍa Swami and Harikeśa Swami, who were serving during the year as acting GBCs, were accepted as full GBC members. And Bali-mardana, it was decided, should continue for the next year to act in the status of an acting GBC. Then Svarūpa Dāmodara was appointed as a GBC member on your request. Then we had an election of GBC officers. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja was elected the chairman, Jayatīrtha was elected vice chairman, and Sats...

Prabhupāda: How many GBCs are there? List of men?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Twenty-one with the addition of Svarūpa Dāmodara.

Satsvarūpa: I have twenty.

Gargamuni: Yeah, twenty. I counted twenty too.

Satsvarūpa: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, Kīrtanānanda, Satsvarūpa, Rūpānuga, Jayatīrtha, Balavanta, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, Jagadīśa, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Rāmeśvara, Bali-mardana, Pañcadraviḍa, Harikeśa, Haṁsadūta, Ātreya Ṛṣi, Gargamuni, Brahmānanda, Hṛdayānanda, Gurukṛpā.

Rāmeśvara: Did you read your name?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Twenty, yes.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
(BG 2.11)

"You are taking care of the body, which is a lump of matter, combination of five elements—earth, water, air, fire—and you are concerned with this nonsense matter. You have no information of the real thing. And you are talking as a learned...?" This is the first. And then He said that "Actual person is within the body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). So as we are changing body in this status, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, when you give up this body, you get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So if you are destined to change your body, then where is your nationalism? (Hindi) If you have to change your body... Today you are Indian. Tomorrow you become Pakistani. Then again fight.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...keep one's status position as gentleman, he must have sufficient income. That's all. One should be satisfied in that way and be happy in Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ
jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā
(Brs. 1.1.11)

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. That is real happiness. You should know what is happiness. Whatever we're getting, that is sufficient if... Simply to keep your status quo nicely. That's all. This is secret of happiness. I must not be poverty-stricken, neither I shall hanker after becoming very, very so-called rich. That is happiness. That arrangement is there. Your present position will never be disturbed, you'll improve, and you get, after seven years, 2,500 rupees per month. What do you want more? This is simply idea, that "My father has got so much property for me." And even if your father leaves so much property for you, if you have no luck to enjoy it, you'll be Harendranatha Singh. That you have seen, that your maternal uncles, what they have done? They're all rich men's son. My father-in-law left sufficient property. But what did they do? Simply drunk and die. Where is happiness? Is that happiness, do you think? Now still they are suffering, his family. If Kṛṣṇa has saved you from that...

Vrindavan De: With provocative disturbance.

Prabhupāda: Just see. To enjoy happiness they are sitting in that house. Your grandfather left such a nice property. But they are not happy. And they disturb you. You came out... (coughs) Practically seeing, you are happy more than them.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Solve this problem. And don't be poverty-stricken. That's all. That is happiness. There is no need of... So we, the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are living hundred times happily than anyone else, hundred times. They cannot dream. They are envious. In Los Angeles the neighborhood men, they're envious, that "These people, these devotees, they do not do anything, and they are living so comfortably—so many cars, nice palace, nice food." They inquire. They do not know. Don't expect in that way happiness. That is futile, that "Our father will leave lakhs of rupees and we shall get the interest and enjoy and then drink and go on." That is not happiness. Work hard how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy in this way. Kṛṣṇa will give. And yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). He knows what is your need. Depend on Kṛṣṇa, but don't sit down like lazy. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). This is instruction. We are trying to teach the whole world that "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and keep your status quo very nicely without any being poverty-stricken, and that is happiness." That is happiness. And so far the bodily disadvantages, so as soon as you get this material body, you'll have to... You have to die. You have to suffer from disease. You have to take birth. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā. So therefore śāstra says, that verse, that "Don't be attached to karma-kāṇḍa, fruitive activities." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. "By karma-kāṇḍa you can get better body, but that will not solve your problem." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body is temporary, but so long you have got this body, you have to suffer, this way or that way. So this is your real unhappiness, to get this material. Kleśada. Kleśada means always giving trouble. From the childhood they are crying. He has got some kleśa. The mother cannot understand. He's crying.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jīva Gosvāmī was brahmacārī. So he gave to a gṛhastha śiṣya to maintain Rādhā-Dāmodara. But what is the position now? Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī was also a brahmacārī. Everything depends on training and mentality. If the attention is diverted otherwise, then it is lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Mādhavendra Purī, he gave his Deity. Now it's again... You know, who has Govardhana Deity. Vallabhācārya's line now worships.

Prabhupāda: They gave to the Vallabhācārya. But somehow they are maintaining the status quo.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Still very opulent. They do very elaborate. That Pushti Marg group, they do very elaborate Deity worship.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, they don't preach very vigorously, but at least their Deity worship...

Prabhupāda: That is also preaching. Arcanam. One of the... If they maintain the Deity worship gorgeously, that is also preaching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the guiding principle should be that under no circumstance should anyone become lost.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the preaching? Alexander the Great? He was conquering, and as soon he went to conquer another place, the last place lost.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, and they are giving us some status to stay there?

Haṁsadūta: No, we have no official status. The way to function there is that you can stay for six months if you bring three dollars a day for them, and then go out, and you can come back the next day. They want to get rid of all religious groups. They want only their Buddhist group. They want to make the Buddhist religion as the state religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: At least they talk like that. And so all the religious groups there, the Christians and others, they're phasing them out by taking away their resident visas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Well, the Tamils are in a very bad position. They've all fled to the Jafna area, the north area.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why are they so against the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Well, the government, the politicians, they incite the people to create trouble, and in this way they try to assume office. They just take advantage of the people in this way, stir them up.

Prabhupāda: Tamils are poor men?

Haṁsadūta: Tamils? No, the Tamils were all the business centers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the reason.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not just that anybody goes to an Embassy and they immediately get three years and they come here, they move around India, then in two weeks or two months they leave and go back. Then the government will not like it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And if some Americans find out that ISKCON had this special status, then someone can also pose as an ISKCON devotee and get this visa.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we should require that they have GBC authorization and..., with the Embassy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. What we will do I think...

Prabhupāda: Our GBC should select. Not...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Or the GBC will communicate with India and then India will send a letter.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Some way...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's what I've been talking to Tamāla. (break) ...for devotee engaging in any antinational activity, then you can send him out. You had told me to say this earlier. So they felt reassured. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...supplied?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja has just given us four lakh rupees' loan. So I have given you a report, which he has. We have twenty-two books in print now in various...

Prabhupāda: "A loan payable when able."

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because, Śrīla Prabhupāda, our Society cannot loan money for a business like this. This is not our Society's business at all. You're not... Of the one lakh of rupees' worth of books, only six thousand rupees is from ISKCON's books. So how can we loan one lakh of rupees? We can't start loaning money for these kind of businesses. It's against the Society's memorandum and rules that money can be given to individuals for their personal businesses. This is a charitable society. It's bounded by the Society's charity laws. So, Prabhupāda, whatever money he has, he has got as a binamida of the Society. He may donate the money in the sense of giving a stipend to family members. That's different. But as far as giving loans for business purposes to an individual private business... I mean we would lose our charitable status, because the accounts are audited every year. So it will look very... In fact, if we do that, then they may raise objection to the stipend also. Now they can't raise objection, because it's given as a stipend to the family, former family of this ācārya. They won't say anything. But if we start taking Society money and loaning it to a private business, which is the way they'll see it, then they'll raise objection. Furthermore, then we'll have to charge interest, and if we charge interest, that gets us into a lot of trouble also. As a Society, we're not supposed to be doing business, profit-making business.

Prabhupāda: So when the certificates matures, what is the amount?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The amount, I believe, is about 43,200 rupees.

Prabhupāda: So this much can be given to him. You can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That amount can be given to him, and he may pay back the loan.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He has gone to Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came back last night.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So think over. I am unable to do now. I can simply give you warning. It is very dangerous. Hm?

Jayādvaita: We have so many experiences that someone associates with these people and he loses his status.

Prabhupāda: They can warn us that "Don't speak of Gītā," and why shall I allow them to speak? Eh?

Bhavānanda: That is such an insult, especially it's our facility. And as soon as you rent out to people, then you are compromised that they can tell you not to speak of Gītā at their Gītā conference in your hall. And you have to listen because they're giving you money.

Akṣayānanda: Because they're paying.

Bhavānanda: It's outrageous.

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Page Title:Status (Conversations)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:27 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=85, Let=0
No. of Quotes:85