Ritualistic ceremony (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"ritualistic bathing ceremonies" |"ritualistic ceremonies" |"ritualistic ceremony" |"ritualistic funeral ceremonies" |"ritualistic marriage ceremony" |"ritualistic religious ceremonies" |"ritualistic sacrificial ceremonies" |"ritualistic yajna ceremony"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: First of all you have to understand that we are trying to make people Kṛṣṇa conscious. So how he can remain twenty-four hours Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is the program.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, the orthodox Jews have a very heavy, complicated, moment by moment ritual daily existence in that, for that same purpose. It was to keep them conscious of their religious nature. And that has maintained a small group of Jews over the centuries as an integral unit, but has tended to disappear in the later generations now simply because modern life does not allow that much Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Jewish consciousness or religious consciousness and attention, act by act throughout the day. So my question is how far can total Kṛṣṇa devotion, act by act all day, spread? How many people can that encompass in a place like America? Or are you intending only to get a few devotees, like several hundred or a thousand who will be solid and permanent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is my program. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible for everyone. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births one can come to this. So it is not possible that a mass of people, a large quantity of people will be able to grasp it. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Another place it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many thousands of men, one may be interested how to liberate himself. And out of many such liberated persons, one may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So understanding of Kṛṣṇa is not very easy thing. But Lord Caitanya is so munificent that He has given us a, I mean to say, easy process. (indistinct) Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not easy. Because Kṛṣṇa is the last word of Absolute Truth. Generally, people are just like animals. Out of many such persons, one becomes interested in the scriptures. And out of many such persons, if they're attracted to the scriptures, they're attracted to the ritualistic ceremony for improving their economic condition. You see? Just like Christians, they go to... Not Christian, everyone. They take up religion with a motive that they may improve their economic position. Dharma, artha. Artha means money. And then why artha? Why you want money? Now, to satisfy senses. Kāma. Dharma, artha, kāma. And when one becomes frustrated in sense gratification, then liberation, to merge. These four things are going on. Dharma, artha, kāma.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, simply for decoration of the body, that is not human civilization. (indistinct) civilized activity is going on on the basis of keeping this body in comfort. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). (indistinct) everywhere attempt is being made how to keep this body comfortable. The karmīs, they are trying to elevate themselves to the heavenly planet. Enjoying here nicely, but they are performing great sacrifices, ritualistic ceremonies, and pious activities to elevate themselves to higher planetary system according to Vedas. Everywhere we go, material... These people are trying to go to the moon planet. But wherever you go, you cannot be any way comfortable. Therefore, Bhagavad-gītā says that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Intelligent person will see that "However comfortable I may be, I have to meet death." And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34), "I am death." Death means to take away. Whatever you create, it will be taken away.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Śyāmasundara: I just wanted to check and see if there's somebody here. It's Nanda-kumāra.

Prabhupāda: So keep this principle in view, that you have to become swan, not crows. They say that everyone, every religion is all the same. This is all nonsense. (indistinct) In Bhagavad-gītā there are different types of religion, sattvic, rajarsic, tamasic. And our this... If you take it as religion, this is transcendental. Sa vai puṁsām paro dharmo (SB 1.2.6). Paraḥ means transcendental, it is not ordinary, aparaḥ. In aparaḥ dharma, the materialistic dharma, there are ritualistic ceremonies how to make one perfect for accepting transcendental religion. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly putting oneself in the transcendental. That is the special (indistinct). Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (aside) Why don't you close it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is to be supposed that you have finished all other types of religion. My Guru Maharaja used to cite one example that one's friend was sitting on the high-court judge's bench. So he was speaking to another, "Oh, that Panchu was playing with us naked. He is sitting on the high-court judge's bench. Oh, how he was playing with us naked, how he is seated in the high-court bench?" "Yes, I have seen, you have seen actually he is sitting." "Oh, then he must not be getting salary." He must not be getting salary. So this is the argument. Familiarity breeds contempt. So he cannot believe that he has become a high-court judge. He thinks that "I am a rascal fool and my friend, how he can become high-court judge? He must not be getting salary." But is that very good argument that the high-court judge is seated there without any salary? This argument is false(?). That is enviousness. Nirmatsarata. That is the habit of the conditioned soul.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That I already said, dhyānāvasthita, dhyāna avasthita. Dhyāna means meditation, and situated, avasthita. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā, by mind, paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. So these processes are approved, but they are more or less on the bodily concept of life.

M. Roost: Is according to...?

Prabhupāda: As the karmīs, they are in the bodily concept of life. They are working day and night trying to improve the material condition of life, not only in this life, but also in the next life. They are performing different ritualistic ceremonies for being promoted to the heavenly planet, like that. So they are all karmīs. Either in this world or in the next world, they are called karmīs. So karmī means they want comfort of this body. And the yogis, they are also on the concept of this body. They are identifying this body as designated Brahman, upādhi-brahma, "Brahman with designation." But their central point is this body. That... This bodily concept of life, so long it continues in the form of karma-yogī or dhyāna-yogī, it can give him relief from the cycle of birth and death and merge into the Brahman effulgence. Brahma-sāyujya-mukti, this is called, technically. The jñānīs also. But that is not final. There is still farther. Even there is brahma-sārūpya-mukti, brahma-sālokya-mukti, brahma-sarṣṭi-mukti. So generally, the yogis and the jñānīs, they aim at brahma-sāyujya-mukti, to merge into the Brahman effulgence. But that is not final. Final is bhakti-yoga. After advancing, if the yogi gets the chance of associating with pure devotee and he engages himself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, that is final perfection.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Bhagavān: They are importing dogs in India now, I think.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Bhagavān: European dogs.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) First of all, they were importing European masters, and now they are importing dogs. Now they will have to import European brāhmaṇas. Yes. Because in India all the brāhmaṇas are now finished. So for their ritualistic ceremony they will have to import from Europe, America. Long ago... Long ago, not long ago, about four, five years ago, I wrote this fact. (break) ...the communists, as they making, that the state is the proprietor of everything, so what is the harm of accepting God as the proprietor of everything? What is the harm? He is giving up his own right. The state is the proprietor. So why not make "God is the proprietor"? What is the harm? And actually, God is the proprietor. Now, this lake, it is not made by the state. It is made by God. They are claiming this is Swiss lake. What is that?

Yogeśvara: Geneva lake.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: Sacrifice means restriction. One meaning of sacrifice is: if you believe in the śāstra, the animal is going to get next life as a human being. Because he is being sacrificed under Vedic rituals, so he is given promotion immediately, to human life. So he is not loser. His body being sacrificed before the deity, he gets the opportunity of getting a human life immediately, for which he had to wait perhaps thousands and thousands of years, because the evolution will go. Of course, after animal life the next life is human life. So anyway, he is given the concession to get a human form of body immediately after this body is destroyed, and with the right that he has the right to kill the man who has killed him. That mantra is cited, that "He was sacrificing your life, so you get immediately human form of body, and you can kill this man." So this is the Vedic rituals. Another animal sacrifice is there just to make experiment of the Vedic mantra. An animal is sacrificed in the altar, and he is given again life, rejuvenated life. An old cow sacrificed, and he gets a youth, young (body). If the animal comes out alive, then it is to be considered that the Vedic mantras are being recited correctly. Not to kill and eat, no, no, that is not the purpose. Just like in laboratories, they make some experiment on the animal, similarly this is like that. The animal is sacrificed, and he is rejuvenated in young life. Old life is sacrificed, and he gets a new body. Then it is to be understood that in this ritualistic ceremony the mantras are chanted correctly. That is their power. But because in this age such learned brāhmaṇas are not available, therefore it is stopped. No more. There is a verse in the Purāṇas,

aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ

sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam

devareṇa sutotpattiṁ

kalau pañca vivarjayet

(CC Adi 17.164)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: Many people in India, they say they are śiva-bhaktas.

Prabhupāda: They are all in the material world, karmīs. Karma-kāṇḍa, ritualistic ceremonies. Prahlāda Mahārāja has described them. What is that very word used? And meaning is "one who cannot control their senses." Avijita-indriya. Ajitendriyāṇām, ajita, "one who could not conquer the senses," they are called karmīs. Ajitendriyāṇām. So all these penances, silence, meditation, then studying the Vedic literature, and so many things are there. Prahlāda Mahārāja, in one word he says, "They are meant for ajitendriyāṇām, one who could not conquer over the senses, for them." And for a devotee, one who is actually pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that a tiny devotee can claim that he has overcome the influence of this world. No. This is called paramahaṁsa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that because you have taken to devotional..., you have become immediately. The process has begun immediately, curing process. But we should not think that we have become perfect. That is wrong. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam. Therefore you must follow the regulative principles. As soon as you become a rascal—"Now I have become advanced. I don't require to chant sixteen rounds. I can do whatever I like"—then he has gone to hell. Upstart, immediately he becomes paramahaṁsa. He's a rascal. He was given the path of becoming paramahaṁsa. One is admitted in the school, he must learn, and one day he will become M.A. But simply by entering in the school, if he says, "I am M.A.," that is rascaldom. This is a chance. To become jitendriya is very difficult task. But it is easy if he immediately becomes a pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūṇyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) "Everything make zero, all desire, except Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is wanted. But that does not become very easily done. One has to try very rigidly; then he'll be paramahaṁsa. Therefore amongst the devotees, there are three grades: kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, and uttama-adhikārī. So if the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī thinks that "I have become uttama-adhikārī," then he's a rascal. He's a rascal. If he wants to imitate the uttama-adhikārī, then he's a rascal.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Don't misunderstand. It is.... Religion, it means a kind of faith. Just like you are Christian, I am Hindu. So you have faith in Christian religion, I have faith in Hin.... That is another thing. But this is.... We understand religion in a different way according to English dictionary. But real religion means the law given by God. This is the shortcut definition of religion. And if you do not know what is God, and if you do not know what is His law, then what is the meaning of religion? There is no meaning of religion. If blindly, if I have some faith in some dogmas and ritualistic ceremonies, that is not religion. Religion means the science by which you can understand God and the law of God. That is religion. It is not the kind of faith. Just like state laws. You may have faith or no faith. The state law is law; you have to obey it. Just like I have come in America. In our country, the street law is "Keep to the left." So I have come to America, you say "Keep to the right." If I say, "No, I have no faith in this 'Keep to the right.' " No, I must obey. That is law. Similarly, religion means you may have faith or no faith, but you must obey. It is a must. It is not optional. That is religion. That, I explained it many times that (indistinct) means characteristic. Just like everyone of us, we are servant. So, the living entity is servant. He may have faith or no faith, he must be a servant. And if you don't become servant of God, then you become servant of dog. That is your advancement of civilization. When there is no service for God, just like here we have got service for God, there is no question of serving dog.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet. It requires a different body. So yānti deva-vratā devān: (BG 9.25) this life, you aspire of going to the moon planet; next life, automatically you will go there. Why you are trying unnecessarily to go to the moon planet by sputnik? You'll go there. You just always think of the moon and you'll go to the moon. It is simple process. And by this way, you cannot go. Now, exactly in the same way that you get the body of a fish and you very easily, whole day and night, for so many years, you jump over in the sea. So moon planet is one of the heavenly planets. There is process how to go to moon planet. In the Bhāgavata it is stated. Those who are karma-kāṇḍīya, very, discharging the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, karma-kāṇḍa, they can go to the moon planet or sun planet. There are millions and trillions of planets they can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). The same thing. Suppose if you want to go to India, you prepare yourself, take the visa, the permit, the passport and necessary money and permission, so many things. You go there. Yes.

Dr. Wolfe: I think so much of going to India, I would certainly be born in India.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Uttamam. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You can directly understand whether you are going forward. These boys, they are educated, they are coming from rich family—at least, in rich nation. They are not fools and rascals. Unless they feel pratyakṣa avagamam, how they can stick? Just like you are hungry, you are eating. Unless you feel that you are eating, "Yes, I am getting strength, satisfying my appetite," then you can go on eating. It is like that. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You don't require to get certificate from others, that "I am eating. Whether I am satisfied?" You will feel. You don't require to take certificate from others. If you are actually eating, the result you will feel. That is pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyam. Other process, you do not know whether you are actually making progress or not. You are simply going to the ritualistic ceremonies, but whether you are actually going forward, that you cannot understand. But you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will understand directly, "Yes, I'm making progress. What I was and what I am now?" Everyone will tell their life history. Pratyakṣam means directly. Pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyam. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). These things are there. Asaṁśayam. There will be no doubt. Other process, you have doubt. This man says that he's God: Whether he's God? But when real God says, then there will be no doubt. Asaṁśayam. So, give them prasāda. Take little prasādam. Thank you very much. So we are trying our best. So if you kindly cooperate with us, we'll get more encouragement. People will be more benefited.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ritual is a practice based on tapasya. Unless one undergoes the ritualistic ceremony, he remains unclean. But in this age, because it is practically impossible to induce people to take all these ritualistic processes, therefore it is recommended that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra." That is special advantage of this age, that by constant chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra he automatically becomes purified. That is recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The beginning is cleansing the heart, because we are impure on account of dirty things within our heart accumulated life after life in the animalistic way of life. So everything, advancement of spiritual life, culture, tapasya means cleansing the heart. So this process, chanting the mahā-mantra, the first installment of benefit is cleansing the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And when the heart is cleansed, then he becomes eligible for being free from the clutches of māyā or the materialistic way of life. When he understands that he is not this body, he's spirit soul, his business is different, and he understands that "I am engaged only in these bodily comforts of life, it is not at all essential because it will change. Today I am in American body, I have got so many duties as American. Tomorrow I may be American dog body. So immediately my duty changes. So that is not my real business. My real business is how to elevate myself as spirit soul to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead." Then he changes his... Ceto... Bhava... Then this materialistic activity is stopped.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In the Treta-yuga yajñas were possible. Dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt, that in this age of Kali-yuga the real yajña is hari-kīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Therefore those who are intelligent, having good brain substance, they take to this yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña. And practically we are experiencing, simply by saṅkīrtana-yajña, even the lowest person in the sinful activities, he is becoming purified. So karma-kāṇḍa is, to revive them in this age is not possible. Neither jñāna-kanda. That is also not possible. People are so fool and rascal that it is impossible. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said... He has condemned karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. Even it is properly done. Karma-kāṇḍa, by performing ritualistic ceremonies of karma-kāṇḍa, you can go to the heavenly planet. But what is the benefit there? You can enjoy there materialistic way of life in higher standard. That's all. You can live for a very, very long duration of period. But that does not mean that you become immortal. The demigods, they are called amara. Amara means they have got very long duration of life. Does not mean he is immortal. So by karma-kāṇḍa you can elevate yourself to the higher planetary system. Even it is properly done... And now it is not possible to do it properly. And even it is properly done, that is condemned. It is not required. Similarly jñāna-kāṇḍa. Even it is properly done... You can merge yourself into the Brahman effulgence. But that is also not safe because in the śāstra we see that arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Even one merges oneself into the impersonal Brahman, he again falls down.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So either in karma-kāṇḍa or jñāna-kāṇḍa you cannot achieve the real purpose of life. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has said, karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakali visera bandha. Either you accept karma-kāṇḍa or jñāna-kanda, they're different pots of poison. Amṛta boliya jeba khai. If by mistake you take poison, death is inevitable. Similarly, by karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa nobody can derive any actual benefit. By upasana-kāṇḍa, that is the... The Vedas, Vedic ritualistic ceremony means there are three kāṇḍas: karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, and upāsana-kāṇḍa. So upāsana-kāṇḍa, there are recommendation of many, worship of many demigods. But the best upāsana is Viṣṇūpāsana. Viṣṇor arādhanaṁ sarveṣāṁ. Viṣṇor arādhanaṁ param. Oṁ tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padam. There are different types of upāsana recommendation, but the viṣṇor arādhanam, worshiping Lord Viṣṇu, that is the Supreme. That is Supreme. So gradually, there is elevation to karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, upāsana-kāṇḍa, but in the Kali-yuga all these things are not possible to revive. Best directly give him the best upāsana-kāṇḍa, Viṣṇūpāsana, bhakti, everything will be automatically achieved by bhakti-mārga.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One religion is there already, that how to love God. This is one religion. Will the Christian say, "No. We don't want to love God"? Will the Christians say? Will the Mohammedans say, "No, no. We don't want to love God"? So religion means how to love God, and any religion which teaches how to love God, that is perfect. It doesn't matter whether he's Christian or Muslim or Hindu. It doesn't matter. You have to be educated to take your degree. It doesn't matter from which college you take degree. Similarly, religion means you have to learn how to love God. If you have no love for God, it is all useless. That is not religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Sākṣād, Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." You cannot surrender until you love. You are surrendered to me, I am also an Indian. Because you have love for me, therefore there is surrender. If I say that "You die," you'll die. Why? Because you love me. So when there will be surrender? Unless one loves God. Unless that platform is not there, that "I love you, I can sacrifice everything for you." That is on the the basic principle of love. Therefore that religion is perfect which teaches the followers how to love God. This is religious principle. So let everyone come to this platform, how to love God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching nothing, but training them how to love God, how they can sacrifice everything for God. So that is religion. Otherwise a bogus waste of time, simply following the ritualistic ceremonies. That is not religion. That is superfluous.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, as you are reading Bhagavad-gītā, is there any doubt, question?

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda wants to know if anyone has questions.

Prabhupāda: There is nothing doubtful; everything is very plain. But we, by our rascaldom, we make it doubt. By our rascal interpretation. Everyone can understand. Just like dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The Kurukṣetra is dharma-kṣetra. Still Kurukṣetra is there in India, and it is dharma-kṣetre. People go there for performing religious ritualistic ceremonies. So where is the difficulty to understand? And five thousand years ago the Kurus and Pāṇḍavas, they assembled there for fighting—that is clearly stated, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Who were they? Māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva: "My sons and the sons of Pāṇḍu," Kuru-Pāṇḍava. So where is the difficulty to understand? But by misinterpretation they'll write volumes of books and spoil the whole thing. This is going on. This business should be stopped. Then we will be benefited. Everyone is misinterpreting. Is it not a fact they are misinterpreting? What do you think?

Devotee (1): So many intelligent people, they are going to Transcendental Meditation simply because it's costing money. They want to pay. My sister, her husband, they are intelligent people, but they are simply...

Prabhupāda: So intelligent that they cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. What kind of intelligence is that, the plain thing in the Bhagavad-gītā, they cannot...

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: All business is going on in Arizona.

Gurudāsa: You once said there is a gross and subtle part of the moon planet. Is that so? No.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gurudāsa: You said one who had qualification could get to the actual moon planet.

Prabhupāda: Moon is one. There are not so many moons. Moon is one. You can go to the moon. By ritualistic ceremony you can get there ten thousands of years life and enjoy. That is the heavenly planet.

Gurudāsa: So they have not at all gone there.

Prabhupāda: All false propaganda.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Can you tell me from your own experience some of these different stages you've been through.

Prabhupāda: Yes, first stage is that you are inquisitively trying to understand. This is the first stage. This is called śraddha, that you have got some faith, "What is this movement? Let me study." This is the beginning. Then, if you are serious, then those who are cultivating this knowledge, you mix with them, try to understand how they are feeling. Then you'll feel, "Why not become one of them?" Then when you become one of them, then all your misgivings go away. And then you become more faithful and you, then you get a taste. Why these boys are not going to see the cinema? They can go-other boys are going. They never ask me. Neither they would like to see even. They hate. Their taste is different. Why they do not eat meat, go to the restaurant? Their taste has changed. In this way you make progress. Firm faith, taste is changed, then God-realization, then love of Godhead, the perfection. That is wanted, love of Godhead. That is first-class religion. Not that ritualistic ceremony, "I believe," "This belief." That is not religion; that is cheating. Really when you develop your love for God, that is perfection of religion.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Dharma is for the envious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so-called dharmas. Just like we have created so many dharma, Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called. They are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God. If you learn, "I believe this," "I believe that," "This is our ritualistic ceremony," these are all cheating. As people are cheating one another in different ways, this is another cheating. That's all. They will say, "We believe in this way," "We believe in that way." So what is that, you believe in that way? What is the fact? If you believe something wrong, is that to be taken as religion? We say tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Other religious sect, they say this is Hindu belief. It is not question of Hindu belief. It is the fact. Does it mean that a Muhammadan or Christian child does not become a boy? When Kṛṣṇa says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young. This is science. And why do you say it is Hindu belief? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? No, it is fact, it is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So these, for the neophyte, these ritualistic formula is good, but he must make further progress. Instead of godlessness, these processes are better. Let him go to the mosque, let him go to the temple, let him go to the church. At least, let him maintain the idea of God. That is the ritualistic. Then there is further progress. One must be interested. But people are losing interest even in the neophyte stage. They're becoming godless. That is going on. So that is very dangerous. Instead of becoming godless, if somebody approaches God, it doesn't matter in some way, some ritual, it is better than this atheist class of men. At least they are accepting God, and if they offer prayers sincerely, God is there within your heart, He'll gradually reveal. The more you become purified, the more He reveals. Then He'll talk with you. So everything depends on the sincerity and seriousness. And if we take these ritualistic ceremonies, "Now I've gone to church or mosque, I have gone to temple, finish. Now let me do whatever I like." Then that is waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is simply waste of time. That is going on practically. He doesn't want to see "How much progress I have made in the matter of loving God." That he does not inquire. He takes God as order supplier. So "He's supplying my order, that's nice." He'll never learn to supply the order of God. Neither he will come any stage on that platform. The highest stage is to supply the order of God, not make God my order supplier. That is neophyte stage.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So ritualistic ceremonies, Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. Everywhere there are some ritualistic ceremony. So when you go above this... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in another place, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. By performing the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you may not perform this ritualistic ceremony. Because you have come to the objective. Not before that. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Vedic ritualistic ceremony is that if you perform this yajña, then you go to the heavenly planet and there you'll get so long life, ten thousands of years, you get nice woman, and so on, so on. People are after that, karma-kāṇḍa. So this karma-kāṇḍa is required so long one is unaware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands this karma-kāṇḍa elevation is not the aim of our life, our real aim of life how to go back home, back to Godhead, then these things are not required. Just like we have no ritualistic ceremony, we have simply devotional service. We have no ritualistic ceremony. There are so many things ritualistic. And we are performing only this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. Therefore the smārta brāhmaṇas, they misunderstand. They do not admit that they have become elevated. The Jagannātha temple does not allow. But when one becomes a pure Vaiṣṇava, then tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā (SB 3.33.7). He has performed all the ritualistic devotion. There are many statements in the śāstras, that when you come to the devotional platform, you haven't go to perform these ritualistic ceremonies. Because the end of ritualistic ceremony, you have come to the point. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of dharma is rejected here. This karma-kāṇḍa, by performing some ritualistic ceremony you may go to a heavenly planet, but what benefit you will have? That one has to understand. You can enjoy there materialistic, highest type of materialistic civilization means eating, sleeping, mating. These things you can get, but you have to come back again. Kṣine punye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). So what benefit there is? No benefit. Just like in British period, some Englishman was made viceroy of India. Then after five years they sent to London, again with his bag, marketing in the street. This has been seen practically. Lord such-and-such, he's traveling in a third-class compartment with a bag for marketing. But so long he was viceroy, oh, so much honor, so much prestige. So where is that prestige now? These ritualistic ceremonies are like that. For more years you become viceroy, and then again fall down. That is your Nixon. What is the position of Nixon now? He is ordinary man. That's all.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is religion. And that is first-class faith which teaches how to surrender to God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6).

Mrs. Sahani: This is the highest knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That is the highest knowledge. It doesn't matter whether you are Muhammadan, Christian or Hindu or this or that. Whether you know God and you have fully surrendered to Him, then it is perfect. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevamalam. If you simply perform the ritualistic ceremonies very strictly, but you have no idea of God, you have no knowledge how to love Him, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Harikeśa: They are all wanting material things. Like in Bhagavad-gītā, what is the verse, traiguṇya-viṣayā vedāḥ? Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna to rise above the scriptures, the flowery words of the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: They are not concerned with the Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot quote from Bhagavad-gītā to instruct these rascals. You have to talk with them with common sense. Their charge is, what is their charge? That you are engaged in ritualistic ceremonies?

Nava-yauvana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what they want us to do? If you don't want me to do this, then you must say what you want me to do. Is it not right? Suppose I am chanting. If you don't want me to chant, then what do you want me to do? The next question will be.

Jñānagamya: They want us to engage in sense gratification like they are engaged. That is what they want.

Prabhupāda: Want..., we want that, if you want me to do like you, then I want you to do like me. If you want me to accept your proposal, why you not accept my proposal?

Jñānagamya: Because if I think that sense gratification is better, then I...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, you think sense gratification is better, I think sense gratification is bad.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, he is Indian. India, there is Parsee community. Indian Parsee means that originally they come from Iran. They are Iranian. But on account of Muhammadans forcibly standing within way... Aurangzeb came. Muhammadans they came, they fled from Iran and took shelter in the western part of India. They took shelter in Gujarat. Persia... I think Iran was known as Persia.

Hari-śauri: Yes. At least that area, anyway.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are known as Parsee. In their ritualistic ceremonies some (indistinct) do with women... (?)

Hari-śauri: Yes. I saw all the women, they keep themselves covered and everything.

Prabhupāda: Sari?

Hari-śauri: Most of them were wearing trousers.

Prabhupāda: No. Parsees are well known for saris.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata has criticized all so-called religion.

Dr. Patel: One patient of mine Sardar Patel, he's a old (indistinct) from Hindus and Muslim. And (indistinct) killing of their...

Prabhupāda: Muslims are also restricted... (break) ...for some purpose. Therefore they are called karmīs. Actually, it is for satisfying Viṣṇu. Without Viṣṇu's satisfaction nothing can be done. So those who are desiring some material grants, they used to perform this ritualistic ceremonies. It is not for the devotee.

Dr. Patel: For devotee, Kṛṣṇa has said, "I am yajña, and I am also hutam, and I am also performer of yajña."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he gives the intelligence. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Unless He gives smṛti, he cannot chant the mantra. "Therefore actually I am performer."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: Is it that simple and clear for everybody?

Prabhupāda: No, that is the way of interpretation. Amongst the learned circle, interpretation required when the things are not clear. If the things are clear, why nonsense interpretation? There is no need of interpretation. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Kurukṣetra is still there, and people go there for pilgrimage. And in the Vedas it is stated kuru-kṣetre dharmān ācaret. "Go to Kurukṣetra and perform ritualistic ceremonies." What is the difficulty? Why should I interpret, "Kurukṣetra means this, and means this, that"? Why? To mislead others and mislead himself. This is not required. But they are doing it. That is misleading. If you can interpret Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, then what is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? Everyone can do like that. Everyone can say "It is my interpretation." Then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? These things should be stopped. Real Bhagavad-gītā should be studied. People should make life Bhagavad-gītā and preach all over the world. This is our movement.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Good children means not these rogues and thieves, but one who can understand God. That is good children.

Mr. Koshi: It is the parents' responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. These are stated. It is not secret matter. When the father goes to beget child, he has to perform ritualistic ceremonies in the presence of relative, brāhmaṇas. They will understand that "He is going now to beget a child." It is not a secret thing. It is garbhādhāna. And if in a brāhmaṇa family the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not observed, then immediately he becomes a śūdra.

Mr. Koshi: What is not a secret thing?

Prabhupāda: Secret... Just like when we go and have sex with wife secretly. It is not secret.

Mr. Koshi: There is a ceremony.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is ceremony.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa, catur-vidhā-rasa, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they'll stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ. If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. So that we want. So if we people cooperate... We have got our program already. The present problem is that they are being attracted with this artha-rasa. There are four kinds of rasa, catur-rasa: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. So somebody is tasting dharmārtha, ritualistic ceremonies. Somebody is economic development in the cities, artha. Somebody is attracted, sense enjoyment, sex. And somebody, very pure, mokṣa-rasa. Catur-rasa. So in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness all the four rasas are there. Simply we have to present. So that is possible by the bhakti-rasa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam... (SB 7.5.23). So we have to begin. The villagers must come, sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and give them prasādam. If you can bring them, so far money is concerned for giving prasādam, that we shall arrange.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we read from the Fifth Canto the facility of life is so much better on other planets, anyway, so they can't even begin to imitate that other higher material planets, what to speak of the spiritual...

Prabhupāda: They do. Karmīs do that. They want to go there after death. Therefore karma-kāṇḍa. By ritualistic ceremonies they want to be promoted. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). By improving the sattva-guṇa, you can go to higher planetary system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would that be considered more intelligent than the gross...

Prabhupāda: No. No. Because after all, you have to die. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. Again you have to come down.