Prabhupāda: If you kindly come and hear about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased upon you. Anyone. Suppose if somebody is interested with you, he likes your activity, he likes to hear about your qualities, you will be also pleased with him. "Oh, this man is interested with my affairs." So śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Kṛṣṇa is within and without because He is all-pervading. It is not that He is simply without or within. He is within and without. That is all-pervading. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. And all-pervading does not mean that He is not in Goloka Vṛndāvana. He is there also. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Although He is in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, He is everywhere. Just like sun. He is ninety millions miles away from here, situated in sun globe, but he is everywhere. This light now, it is sunlight. So if sun can remain in that way, everywhere, why not the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He also remains everywhere? So He is within your heart. And when He sees that you are interested in hearing about Him, He becomes sympathetic. He is sympathetic to everyone. Still more sympathetic. So what does He do? Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa, when He sees that one is interested in hearing about Him, then He gives you facility. What is that facility?
Not God (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"not god"
|"not the Supreme Personality of Godhead"
|"not the Supreme"
|"not the supreme enjoyer"
|"so-called bhagavan"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Forgot, you forgot. That is your nature. You forget so many things. You cannot remember what you were doing exactly at this time yesterday. Can you remember immediately? Forgetfulness is our nature. We are very minute; therefore our..., we are subjected to the quality of forgetfulness. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa that "How I can believe that you told this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān?" He said that "In... I, first of all, I told to Vivasvān." So in reply to that question, Kṛṣṇa said that "Both you and I had many, many births before, but you have forgotten; I remember." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourself. He does not forget. He remembers everything, past, present, future, all, but we forget. That is the difference between God and living entity. We are subjected to forgetfulness. So we forget; again, if it is reminded, we remind. That is our nature. So at the present moment we are forgetful of our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And then, by good association, by constant chanting, hearing, remembering, we again revoke our old consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So forgetfulness is not wonderful. It is natural. We forget. But if we keep constant touch, we may not forget. Therefore this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotees, and constant repetition of the chanting, scripture, that will keep us intact without forgetting. Satataṁ kirtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). We have to continue this service constantly. Then we shall not forget. Forgetfulness is not wonderful. That is our nature. That is our nature. And that is the difference between ourself and God. God does not forget. We forget. We are claiming, some of us, foolishly claiming, that "I am God, but I forget." God does not forget. Therefore I am not God. Is that clear?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes, except that he claims to be neither God nor not God.
Prabhupāda: Huh? But he never said that "I am God." He said there is no God.
Allen Ginsberg: No. He doesn't say there's no God either. He says...
Prabhupāda: That's it. That's anyway.
Allen Ginsberg: He says, all conceptions of the existence of the self, as well as all conceptions of the nonexistence of the self, as well as all conceptions of the existence of a supreme self, as well as all conceptions of the nonexistence of the supreme self are equally arbitrary, being only conceptions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a jugglery of words. So his principle was that they did not believe in God. So still the Buddhists says, "You don't believe in God." So but they are worshiping God, Lord Buddha. There are so many temples. In the same way, as we worship. So this is transcendental cheating.
Allen Ginsberg: Transcendental cheating.
Prabhupāda: No, no. One thing you try to understand. Why these people, if Kṛṣṇa is not the supreme authority, why they are taking Kṛṣṇa's book and translating? Why don't you try to understand?
George Harrison: I'm not saying Kṛṣṇa isn't the Supreme. I believe that.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I mean to say, even there are other sects, as you say, Maharsi. They accept also indirectly Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority. Because if we say Maharsi belongs to Śaṅkara sampradāya...
George Harrison: Yeah, but we had a misunderstanding before about the translation of the Sanskrit Gītā into English, and I was saying that there's many versions, and I think we thought you were trying to say that your version, your translation, was the only authority and that the other translations... But we didn't really have understanding as to the identity of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Energy, being nondifferent from God, in one sense, it is God, but energy is not God at the same time. The same example. Just like sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun, but sunshine, if it enters in your room, if you think that "Sun has entered into my room," that is wrong. But sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni... (BG 9.4). (break) "Everything is resting in Me." That means in His energy. But not that everything is God.
Guest (3): It would appear that to claim that you can reach eternal bliss or I don't know what else you might call it, by just chanting, it seems to be too easy.
Prabhupāda: That is one process of self-realization. There are different process of self-realization. For this age, when people are less intelligent, this process is right.
Guest (2): ...what you are doing by chanting is kind of...
Prabhupāda: You chant and you will understand. If you have no child, then how can you understand what is the labor of producing a child?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Guest (3): Why not?
Prabhupāda: You are not God because God... You do not know what is the meaning of God. What do you mean by God? First of all define.
Guest (3): Everything is God.
Prabhupāda: If you apply that definition, then you are God. First of all define what is God.
Guest (3): God is everything. God is it.
Prabhupāda: That is not the definition. God is not everything.
Guest (3): And it is God. It is all it.
Prabhupāda: That is not the definition. God is not everything.
Guest (3): And it is God. It is all it.
Prabhupāda: I say everything is God's energy. Everything is not God.
Guest (3): Everything is not God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the same example I gave immediately that the sunshine and the sun. Sunshine is not different from the sun.
Guest (2): How can the sun itself be different from it's energy? Sunshine is energy, sun is energy, and both of them...
Prabhupāda: No. This is an example. Sunshine is also energy. Everything material is an energy of the Lord. That's all right. But I'm giving you the example that sunshine and the sun is one, but at the same time different, simultaneously. You cannot accept sunshine as the sun. Suppose you are in the sunshine, you cannot say that you are in the sun planet.
Prabhupāda: You may have ideas, but I don't agree with your idea. If... I say that anything take it material or spiritual they are different energy of God. Matter is not different from God as it is energy of God, but still matter is not God.
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just try to understand this point, that whatever we see, that is distribution of energy of God. But energy and the energetic is not the same. But they are same as...simultaneously same also because you cannot separate. Just like fire and heat. You cannot separate heat from fire but heat is not fire. Just try to understand this. Heat is not fire although heat and fire cannot be separated.
Guest (1): But I don't think I'm thinking of myself as matter but I'm also not thinking of myself as...
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (5): God is made for, sir.
Prabhupāda: Not "God is made." God is never made. God is God.
Guest (5): But, sir, G means (Hindi?)
Prabhupāda: That is your speculation. G means this, O means this, this means this. That you can interpret in so many ways but God is God. God is great. Brahman. Brahman means great, Parabrahman, the greatest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). That is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest (3): Before the birth of Lord Kṛṣṇa, was God existing? God exhibit temporally...
Prabhupāda: Atheist class of men, who are always engaged in sinful activities, and therefore fools... They don't believe in the next life. Therefore they are fools. There is next life. They say, "Oh, we don't care for next life. Let us do whatever we like." That is a foolish proposition. Because there is next life. Just like a man he becomes irresponsible. He says, "I don't care for government or law. I can do whatever I like." That means he's risking his life. As soon as he'll be arrested, he'll be punished. Therefore he's mūḍha, rascal. Anyone who is defying the kingdom of God, he's a rascal. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ, is lowest of the mankind. God consciousness is meant for human beings, and if a person defies God, then he's the lowest of the mankind. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. His knowledge has been plundered by the illusory energy. He may be academically a very big title holder, but if he's not God conscious, then his knowledge has been taken away. Real knowledge has been taken away. Asuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These are the symptoms of the atheist class of men. So on the whole, at the present moment, God consciousness must be spread if actually they want peace and prosperity. And those who are in charge of religion, religion means God consciousness. Everyone should combine to spread God consciousness. That is the immediate necessity at the present moment.
Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād guṇā (SB 5.18.12). If one is Godless, he cannot have any good qualities.
Revatīnandana: Supposing somebody has got smallpox. Smallpox means sores appear on the body and very high fever also. So one doctor who's less intelligent says, "He's got a fever because he has sores." So he puts medicine on the sores. Sores go away and the man dies. Another doctor says, "He's got sores and a fever. This means he has got smallpox." So he gives him some medicine to cure the disease, and then the sores automatically go away. The root cause of all... There are so many troubles in the world. The root cause is Godlessness. People are not God conscious. If that is there, it will automatically put everything in the right perspective and everybody will be able to live harmoniously and peacefully because they will be satisfied and happy in themselves. Then they can live together peacefully and happily. Otherwise, it's all artificial attempts, and the patient will die when you just treat the symptoms. That's happening. For hundreds of years there's been wars and things. There have also been peace movements. Have the peace movements stopped the wars? It hasn't happened.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you become a student, otherwise you'll not be understand... That I say God is the supreme enjoyer, God is the supreme proprietor. That I already told. Can you understand this? Can you refute this, that God is not the supreme proprietor?
Journalist (2): What sort of people do you want?
Prabhupāda: No, why you are going away? You are talking one thing and then going another thing.
Journalist (2): I have to do, I'm afraid.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Then I cannot waste my time. You question one thing. Make a solution.
Journalist (2): What sort of people do you want to become students?
Prabhupāda: Tell him, Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God, (indistinct). That is accepted. We accept Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara. Īśvara means the controller. Just like here there are controllers. But here any controller is controlled by another controller. But param īśvara, God means Who has no other controller. He's the supreme controller. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā: īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He's the supreme controller. Here any controller, he's controlling, just like this physician. He has learned his medical science from another physician, another physician, another physician. So we are not the supreme physician or supreme controller.
Dr. Weir: May I give an example of the fallacy there; is that Sir Alexander Flemming didn't learn his curative, antibiotics, from any other person, he discovered them by natural scientific methods of observation and inference and experiment.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the Māyāvādīs. "Because everything is made of God, therefore everything is God." That is their... But our philosophy is everything is God, but not God also.
Bob: So what on earth is God? Is there anything on earth that is God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because it is made out of the energy of God. (pause) But (that) does not mean that anything you worship, you worship God.
Bob: So what is on earth, though, is not māyā. It is...
Prabhupāda: māyā means energy.
Bob: It means energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. māyā, another meaning: illusion. So foolish persons, the energy is accepted as the energetic. That is māyā. Just like sunshine. Sunshine enters your room. Sunshine is the energy of the sun. But because the sunshine has entered in your room you cannot say the sun has entered. If sun enters, then your room and yourself, everything will be finished immediately. (laughter) You'll not have the leisure to understand that sun has entered. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Who has created the brain of Professor Einstein? You have not created. You are trying to make a xerox copy, that's all. But the original is already there. Now who has created the original brain? Then you have to go to God. But you have not created. It is not my men(?). If man could create such brain, then, "Ah, never mind, the professor has died. We create another person like." That you cannot. So even if you are able to imitate, you are not the supreme scientist. First of all it is doubtful. So accepting that you will be able to copy or xerox copy of Einstein's brain, that does not give you the credit. The credit is already there, God's credit. At least we shall not give you any credit. We shall speak that the original brain is created by God. You cannot create. If you had the power to create, then there was no necessity of copying. You could create better brain. That you haven't got. You are trying to take xerox copy from that brain. Just like big, big aeroplanes are flying, but their, the shape is made after the bird. The original shape bird is created by God. He has got the same type of machine even within an insect, small insect flying. You can create a small aeroplane like that. That is not possible. Then what is your credit? Here is God's credit, a small fly, near water.
Prabhupāda: They are kept in darkness about God. Somebody is speaking, saying "God is dead." Some is (saying), "God is impersonal. There is not God. I am God, you are God," all this nonsense. Here is God. We have to push this. What do you think, Hayagrīva Prabhu? So, Hayagrīva Prabhu is taking charge of pushing this movement by help in editorial work. So that is most important because we are distributing books. Our writing will be gospel.
Devotee: (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: We have to edit in such a way, present our literature in such a way that it will be gospel truth.
Devotee: Oh!
Prabhupāda: Universal. We present such God.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Moreover, we present a God that is lovable.
Prabhupāda: Lovable, yes. Practical. Anyone who comes in touch with Him, he becomes a lover of..., immediately. How you can say that is not God? You have to prove that He is not God. That you cannot.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: How many qualifications does a spiritual master have in terms of being a spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: One qualification: he is a devotee of God. That's all.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also is he designated?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: The whole rascal world, they have given up God consciousness. They have become rascal. Therefore to teach them about Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best service at the present moment. Because the whole world—the so-called politicians, so-called scientists, so-called philosophers—they're all rascals. They have forgotten God. We, we call them directly, they're all rascals, mūḍhā, duṣkṛtina mūḍhā. All sinful, all rascals, because they have no information of God, Kṛṣṇa. Ask any scientist, "Do you know anything about Kṛṣṇa?" "Oh, what is Kṛṣṇa? What is God? This is all foolish, humbug." They will say like that. And he's passing as great scientist. He's fool number one but he's passing as great scientist. (laughter) Ha! Our Śyāmasundara's daughter, little daughter, she preaches, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If somebody says, "No, I do not," "The Supreme Personality of Godhead." (laughter) Actually that is nice preaching.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, there are different departments, and the, there is a man, departmental-in-charge. So if you can talk with that departmental-in-charge, if you can please him, that means you are pleasing the proprietor or director. There is no doubt. Because he is representative. So physically you may not meet Kṛṣṇa, but in higher stage, you can meet. But accepting that you cannot..., but He, you have to be in contact with His representative. That is coming in disciplic succession. Then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult. The ācāryas are there. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyām. Kṛṣṇa says. "All the ācāryas," māṁ vijānīyām, "they are Myself." Nāvamanyeta karhicit, "Never disregard ācārya." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāṁ nāvaman..., na martya-buddhyāsūyeta "Do not be envious: 'How he can be? He's ordinary man. How he can be representative?' " No. Anyone who is talking of Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa talked, he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme." So if anyone says, "Kṛṣṇa is supreme," then he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. It is not very difficult. Because the same talking. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If somebody says that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa," then he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. But if somebody says, "Kṛṣṇa is not God. I am God," then he's not representative. To talk with Kṛṣṇa is not difficult. You find out the representative, talk with him, and you are talking with Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So Catur-bhuja, where he has gone?
Prabhupāda: That will... Phalena paricīyate. The system which is accepted more, that is successful. You can present so many system, but the test will be which system is more accepted by the people, by the mass, general people. That is successful. Phalena paricīyate. And if somebody says that "I have got my own god," and some other says, "I have got my own god," but this is a fact: God is one. You may call by different names. That is different thing. But God cannot be manufactured, that "You manufacture your god, I manufacture my god, he manufactures his god." That is not God.
Buddhist Monk (1): That's exactly what is happening.
Prabhupāda: That, happening, that is another thing. We are talking of the principle. God is one. God cannot be two. Then there is no meaning of God. Now, if I present Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if you disagree, then you'll have to present your god. Now, we have to consider who is actually God. Just like I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. So I asked him that "Where is the difference between your communist philosophy and our philosophy? The communist philosophy, they have created their own god, Lenin." Lenin is their God. We have seen in Moscow.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Certainly. That is life. This is not life. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Life means with high qualities. So one who is not God conscious, they cannot have any good qualities. It is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. He's simply hovering on the mental plane. Asati dhāvato bahiḥ. And he has to come to these non-permanent things, material things. Asati. Asati mā sad gama. The Vedic injunction is, "Don't stick to this asat. Try to come to the sat, eternal." Tamasi mā jyotir gama. These are the... "Don't remain in the darkness. Come to the light."
David Lawrence: That was one track on George's record which really, really got through to our boys, I think. "Light, is it? Light of the World."
Śyāmasundara: "Light, there is, Light of the World." (?)
David Lawrence: Really...
Prabhupāda: So his record has become very successful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can defend your theory but that will not help purification of the society. That will not help. Take it for granted. You can make so many theories but if you remain impure, if you are not God conscious, all these theories will be useless. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathe... (SB 5.18.12). This is simply mental speculation. Mano-rathena, hovering on the mental plane, you can jump from this to that, but that will not solve the problem. Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ. So we do not act on mental speculation. It may be our credit or discredit. That is different thing. We simply follow the standard policy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, how to become a brāhmaṇa, how to become a kṣatriya, how to become a vaiśya, how to become a śūdra, or how to remain less important than the śūdras. The societies must be divided in different divisions. They should work conjointly... (end)
Prabhupāda: No. No. God is created, you can say. But when a created thing is, then he's not God. Our, our proposition is that everything is created, but finally if we find somebody, he's not created, then he's God.
Yogeśvara: They would say: our conclusion was just now that everything has to have been created.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: Everything has some source of origin.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: So if everything has some source of origin, how can there be something that does not have a source of origin?
Prabhupāda: No, when there is no source of origin, that is God.
Prabhupāda: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there. So thing is that there is no more regular teaching of religious system. It has become a profession like. Neither the teachers are serious, nor the students are serious. So our principle is that not this religion or that religion. Whichever religion you may like, you can follow, but we want to see whether you are God conscious. If you are not God conscious, then we take it simply useless waste of time, these so-called religions. Śrama eva hi kevalam. You understand Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: Can anyone say that "Nobody is greater than me"? All these rascal Gods, can he say? Can anyone say? Immediately... He feels some sickness. Immediately he has to call greater God, physician. And he's claiming, "I am God." We don't want such kind of God, manufactured God. We want real God. When we see nobody is greater than Him, that is God. (break) ...We accept so many pseudo, pretender as God. But we do not know how to test him, whether he is greater than everyone? Whether nobody is greater than him? Then he's God. Can you find out any, so many gods, who has no greater than him, or equal to him? You are claiming You are God, I am also claiming, God. Then we are equal. Then how you can be God or how I can be God? We are equals. As soon as you find there are equals, or as soon as find there is greater, then you are not God. God—the great. He must be greater than everyone. Therefore śāstra has concluded, īśvara, God; parama, the Supreme; Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And why? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: God does not expect. It is for your good. If you are simply taking from God, now if you learn how to give God, that is your perfection. That is your perfection. Why God will ask from you? He is all perfect. He does not want. He is not hungry. He is feeding millions of living entities. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Why God will ask from you? But if you give your life to God, then you become perfect. God is not want of, in your service or anything... He is complete. If he is not complete, he is not God. These are all mental concoctions. What you can do? What you have got to give charity?
Guest 4 (Indian man): What is the position of man...
Prabhupāda: You are poor man, what you can give, charity? Why you are thinking that you can give in charity? Therefore God says, dadāsi yat: "If you are thinking to make some charity, give it to Me. Come on." Just like Bali Mahārāja was approached by Vāmanadeva. The Supreme Lord went to Bali Mahārāja, "Bali Mahārāja, give Me some land." You see. So these are all mental concoctions. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says that "If you have got such mentality to give some charity, give it to Me. Come on." The first thing is you try to learn how to give God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are not God conscious, they are thinking like that. Now, suppose in the hospital, there are many patients. They are starving, many patients in the hospital. Do you know that or not? So why don't you give them food? They are starving. Why? Why don't you go to the hospital and you'll find hundreds of patients, they are starving... So similarly, why you are bothering? You are not bothering the hospital because you know that is right, they are starving. That is the physician's prescription. They must starve. So if you know God, then you will understand that you cannot help anyone. They are put into the starving condition under certain condition. So you cannot help them. You are simply thinking that "I will help." There are hundreds and thousands, millions of people starving. What you can do? Even if you try to give some something. Just like this Vivekananda philosophy, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, to serve the poor Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa has become poor.
Prabhupāda: That is their process.
Hṛdayānanda: It is not God but...
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Karandhara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Karandhara: Either they accept our evidence or...
Prabhupāda: No, therefore they are fools. That is a fact. Any child can understand that... And even they're less than a child. If I say there is something, therefore there is consciousness, any boy can understand. But they cannot understand. Less than a boy.
Karandhara: They say there's no proof that that something...
Prabhupāda: That is the proof. That is the proof.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīva Gosvāmī. Jīva Gosvāmī has stated that unless we accept acintya, inconceivable energy, there is no conception of God. There is no conception of God. If you bring God to your conception, he's not God.
Umāpati: Acintya, acintya-bheda is a unique contribution of Vaiṣṇavas to the concept of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Actually, that is the fact. We cannot explain what is God. We have to accept what is God from God.
Yaśomatīnandana: Avaroha.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatīnandana: Avaroha process?
Prabhupāda: Yes, not ava... Yes, avaroha process. Yes, thank you. Here Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We have to accept that. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So "There is no more superior authority than Me." Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21).
Prabhupāda: Well, that is your manufacture. Why do you say like that? Each other's relationship? The relationship already there. What is to make new there? The already... God is great, and we are small. The relationship is already there. So how you can make another relationship? God is great. Is it not? God is great. Is it not?
Prajāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And then what you are? You are small.
Prajāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So relationship already there. So what relationship you are creating again? It is already there. God is great; you are small. The relationship is already there. He's Creator. You are the created. He's the predominator. You are the predominated. He's the master. You are the servant. This is already there. And what new thing you can create? This is already there. He's master. And He's... Why you are covering? Because God has given this season. So you are dependent. You have to cover. You cannot make it immediately sunshining summer season. That is not within your power. Therefore He's great. You are small.
Prabhupāda: No, no, man or woman, you cannot create God. That is the first proposal. God is not your creation. You are creation of God. You cannot say, "God should be like this. God should be like that." That is nonsense. God is not under your dictation. You are under the dictation of God. That is God. If you manufacture, if you dictate, then how He is God? He's your dog. Just like a dog. He dictates. He abides by your order. He's not God. He's dog. What is the scientist says? Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientist says that God didn't... One of the astronomers said that "If I were present at the time of creation..."
Prabhupāda: Ah, you were present. Therefore you are a rascal. You were not allowed to (be) present. Therefore God is great. You are a rascal. God did not allow you to be present there. Now you are lamenting. Therefore God is great.
Prabhupāda: No, he had no power to do that, neither you have the power. That is the difference between you and God.
Yaśomatīnandana: In other words, "If God is like me, then I'll accept him as God, but if he's not like me, then he is not God."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... Means...
Karandhara: No, they say, "If God is absolute, then he has to be obvious to everyone." Just like the sun comes up. The sun is obvious to everyone whether they believe in it or not.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but who is in the room, closing the room, how he can see?
Prajāpati: If they're asleep.
Prabhupāda: No, I have already explained. What is not God? That is already explained. Anything you bring, He is, God is there. Without God, nothing can exist. So why this or that? Anything, that is God. But He's absolute. His love and His enmity, that is the same thing. We distinguish, here in this material world, "This is love and this is animosity." But God's animosity and God's love—the same thing. That is acintya. Here in the relative world we cannot adjust how animosity and love can be the same, one and the same. That is acintya, inconceivable by us. But God's love... Just like God's love for the gopīs and God's enmity for Kaṁsa, they're reaching the same result. Both of them are going to the spiritual world. Just like Pūtanā and Mother Yaśodā. Pūtanā came to poison Kṛṣṇa, and Mother Yaśodā is always anxious to save Kṛṣṇa, naughty child. He may not be hurt. So two opposite things. But both of them got the same result. Kṛṣṇa thought that "I have sucked her breast, so she is My mother. She must go to the same destination as Yaśodā Mā." Just see. That is His enmity.
Prabhupāda: If God has cause, then he is not God. That is the difference between God and everything. Everything has got cause, but God has not cause. Therefore he is God. That, the rascal, he does not know. He equalizes God and everything on the same level. Then what is the meaning of God? If He hasn't got the extraordinary qualification, then how he is God? He is everything. He does not know. Why there is distinction between God and everything? Because God is not caused by everything, but everything is caused by God. That is the difference. (break) ...is equal to God, then everything is God. That is going on, Māyāvāda philosophy. (break)
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Therefore I am unique. Yes. Then I can, become unique. Yes. I am not amongst the rascals.
Rūpānuga: I tell the students... They ask me how they can distinguish between gurus. I tell them the real guru claims to be servant, and not God. I said only one guru says he is servant. That is Śrīla Prabhupāda. And they can understand that.
Candanācārya: Sincere people will appreciate that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: In the early days of this movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New York, devotees said they did not know how to treat Your Divine Grace. They did not know your exalted position. I think we are still very much offensive.
Prabhupāda: So because you are not God conscious you are doing all this nonsense. You do not know who is father. Therefore you cut throat, your brother. (break) ...that those who are eating vegetables, they are also killing. That's a fact. But God says that "You can eat this." God says... By nature... Just like the animal. They will eat these leaves, the grass. Nature. But they will not eat meat. Tena tyaktena. Whatever God dictates, "Now you eat this," He is eating. But you give him meat. No, he will not take it. So whatever you are allotted, you should eat. That is God's law, that after all, one has to eat. So what you will eat? Everything is living. Therefore allotted. You are allotted, "These things is allotted for you. You eat." We God conscious people therefore eat... Without going into the details, we eat anything what God eats. That's all. There is no question of discriminating what we shall eat. We eat prasādam. That's all. So we are safe.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Inner light, not outward light. Then he is not absolute. He is relative. He is relative. He is not absolute. So God is absolute. But you are relative. Therefore you are not God.
Hṛdayānanda: Kṛṣṇa illuminated the house of the gopīs.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa. That is rejected. Now we are talking about him. If he is light, why does he use electric light? If he says, "The inner light," then you are relative. You see only inner side, not outside. Therefore you are relative. Therefore you are not God. God is absolute. Antar-bahiḥ. One has to see light inside and outside. That is real light. If the light is checked by some material condition, that is not absolute light. That is electric light. As soon as you come to the condition, then it is relative. It is not absolute. (break) A man can be changed from barking to chanting, but dog cannot be. (break) ...is so powerful that as soon as there is sunrise, immediately darkness gone. Similarly, if the absolute light is there, if there is need of electricity, what kind of light it is? Even the relative light is so powerful that immediately darkness gone. So you are not as powerful as the relative light. So what kind of light you are? This should be the argument. You are cheating. You are not light. You are darkness.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh, not God?
Devotees: No, no, dog. (everyone laughing)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dog has become his God then.
Prabhupāda: Then why he should not become dog? Become yaṁ yaṁ vāpi... He has great love for dog, and it is said that yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajati (BG 8.6), at the time of death, he will think of dog and he will become dog. This is...
Yaśodānandana: One time I asked one Indian man, "Why is it that people beat the dogs in India?" He says, "Because the English people were ruling for so long. Now they have taken birth as dogs. We beat them."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In America taking care of the dogs and cats is a very big business. It's a very big business.
Karandhara: They even have cemeteries.
Candanācārya: They buy ten thousand dollar necklace for their dog.
Prabhupāda: Just see how much attracted.
Prabhupāda: :...accepting a leader, one has to consider what is the position of the leader. They do not take such account. Now they calculate if the leader is very cunning, then he is qualified. They think that politics means cheating, cunning, bluffing. That is good qualification. Lloyd George, sometimes before he came, he said, "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." He must be inconsistent. And here, this is defense. Tasya vartamānasya. How he is situated (break) ...as it was everywhere, especially in India, that if one is not God conscious, he is a third-class rascal. That standard is now gone. Now to become God conscious, to talk of God, is a business of primitive fools. They think like that. Is it not?
Prajāpati: Yes. They say they are realistic and we are not realistic.
Prabhupāda: Who is realistic? The rascals?
Prajāpati: They think that people who believe in God are not realistic.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And what is the realistic?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bali Mardana: They will say, "How do we...?"
Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa is not God, but you have already surrendered to God. Kṛṣṇa may not be God, that is... You bring another God, then we shall reject him. Kṛṣṇa... But that you cannot. You do not know who is God. At least, we know what is God. But if you deny that Kṛṣṇa is not God, then bring another God at least equal to Kṛṣṇa.
Bali Mardana: They'll bring Guru Maharaji. (laughter) Many people were disappointed in Houston because he did not display any miracles. They were expecting to see many things.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is God. He can attract any man. But I am not God. I have to attract people by some opulence.
Guest (2): But Prabhupāda, in the beginning, you attracted in the park everyone. When you went to America, you were chanting and attracting people just in the park. Same place. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Now, at that time, only Brahmānanda was attracted. (laughter) Not you. Not you.
Guest (2): Only because he was sincere soul.
Prabhupāda: This Brahmānanda and Acyutānanda, they first danced in my chanting in the park. The photograph was published in the Times of New York.
Guest (1): And I heard that your first devotee in America, Kīrtaniyā.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): Kīrtaniyā Swami.
Prabhupāda: That is avidhi-pūrvakam.
Dr. Patel: Avidhi-pūrvakam. But also, still, they are worshiping God.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone is part and parcel of God, but everyone is not God. That is the way. That any hole of my body, that is my body. But when food is to be taken, it is only this, not another, other hole. That is the way. (break) ...and if you are saying like that... Just like... Here... When you...
Dr. Patel: But it is of the... is doing that to you also. Why do you worry about it?
Prabhupāda: No, no. When the...
Dr. Patel: We can give it in the vein also.
Prabhupāda: No, no. (laughter.) That is not the way. That is avidhi-pūrvakam.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa is a more hard taskmaster.
Prabhupāda: Because He cannot acc... He is God! He cannot accept anyone's order. That is God. If somebody accepts my order, he's not God. He's my servant. Or I make him my servant. That is surrender. No more ordering. God is not order-supplier. Although He supplies everything, but not... You cannot order. You cannot order.
Guest (1): According to His will.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows everything. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ (BG 15.15). He knows what you want. And He's always... Aiye. He knows what is your want. Just like father know what is the want of the child. But the child never orders father, "Give me this."
Guest (1): Nowadays, children order. They...
Prabhupāda: No, he's simply surrendered to father. He's confident, "My father is there. Everything is all right."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was speaking with Kṛṣṇa. Still, he said that "I cannot see You." That is a fact. (break) Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). If you have got qualified eyes, you can see Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours. So we have to qualify, purify. Sarvopādhi-vinir... You are seeing. You are trying to see God as American, as Indian, as this and that. With that eyes you cannot see. When you are neither American nor Indian nor brāhmaṇa nor śūdra, you are pure spirit, then you can see. They want to remain with this designation-body and want to see God. That is not possible. To enter fire you have to become fire. Otherwise, it will be not possible to enter fire. So without Brahman realization, you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). (break) ...is the same. Quality, it is same. It is salt, salty. And the whole ocean is also salty. That is tat tvam asi. "You are also salty," if I say. If the drop of the water, I say that "This is also salty," that is tat tvam asi. Not that he has become the whole sea. This is rascaldom. (break) ...God create another ocean in the sky. Then you are God. When there is some tooth pain, you go to the doctor, and you are God. Just see how much nonsense they are. As soon as there is tooth pain, "Oh, oh. Just now I am not God, I am patient."
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Permanent, but who has made it this? You have not made. You make a permanent body. Then you are God.
Indian Man (1): That nobody can do.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he is not God. That is existence of God. You cannot do because there is higher power controlling you. God means controller. He is controlling you. You cannot do that. Therefore you are not God. There is superior controller, who does not allow to do this. You have to abide by the laws. This is common sense reasoning. If you are being controlled, how you become God? God means the supreme controller. Is it all right? So long you will be controlled, you are not God. But where is the position that you are no more controlled? That position is never.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
O'Grady: To be conscious of who you are yourself.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. God consciousness includes self consciousness. But self consciousness is not God consciousness. God consciousness includes self consciousness, but self consciousness is not God consciousness.
O'Grady: Well, it may be.
Prabhupāda: No.
O'Grady: You may achieve recognition of the God that's in yourself, of that aspect.
Prabhupāda: When you are God conscious...
O'Grady: Without being pantheistic, you mean?
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, "Who is God?" Then we shall ask, "Who told God?" (chuckles) That God... That is the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now we should enquire about God, what is God, who is God." Unless you know who is God, how can you raise the question, "Who instructed God?" If you do not know God, then the question does not arise, "Who instructed God?" Is it not? Yes. So therefore God is explained in the Brahma-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "God is He from everything comes, emanates." That is God. That God is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "The Supreme Being from whom everything emanates." Now, what is that Supreme Being? What is the nature of the Supreme Being? It is a dead stone or a living being? That is also explained. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). "That God is fully cognizant of everything, directly and indirectly." Unless He is fully cognizant of everything, directly and indirectly, He is not God. So then the same question comes, as you said, that "Who taught God?"
Prabhupāda: Independent. He is fully independent. He does not require to take lessons from anyone. That is God. That is God. If anyone requires to take lesson from other, he is not God. Who does not require to take lesson from other, that is God.
O'Grady: Where does human love enter into it?
Prabhupāda: Everything is there. Because love is also coming from God. So we are being part and parcel of God, there is part and parcel manifestation of love because the original love is there in God. Because nothing can exist. Nothing can exist if it is not in God.
O'Grady: Therefore we love.
Prabhupāda: The love is also there in God.
O'Grady: But God is not love?
Prabhupāda: God is love. God is everything.
Prabhupāda: Well, then you have to give me definition of God. What is God? If you know God, then you can say that "Kṛṣṇa is not God." Otherwise, how you can say He is not God? I give you a piece of gold: If you say, "It is not gold," then you show me what is gold. Otherwise, you are talking nonsense. If you do not know the things as it is, how you can say, "It is not this"? If you know the positive, then you can say the negative.
Yogeśvara: Well, there are many people who say that they have actually experienced God.
Prabhupāda: What is that God? Tell me.
Yogeśvara: Well, it's like the Guru Maharaji people. They say they've seen Guru Maharaji lifting Govardhana Hill and displaying universal form and so many miracles. They say they have seen Guru Maharaji doing all the miracles that Kṛṣṇa claims to have done.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. That is condemned. One who is not God-conscious, one who does not know that he is not body, he is animal. That's all. Maybe in different dress, in different... So you have to set up real human society in a small scale so people will see, "Yes." Because man has got intelligence. Just like, although I am condemning the western mode of life, still, so many western young boys, they have come. I never came to speak to flatter you, that "Your western civilization is very nice." I never said that. Why you are coming? I never came to flatter you, neither I never came to say, "Yes, there is no God." I am speaking just opposite, everything opposite. "You are drunkard; no drink. You are illicit sex hunters; no illicit sex." So I am just speaking opposite, from the beginning of my preaching. So why you are coming? So if you stick to your position, real human civilization, people will come, gradually. Because they have got the sense. When we say others are animals, demons, we don't say whimsically, capriciously, no. On the basis of sound knowledge.
Prabhupāda: ...oba. Mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Adānta-gobhir viśatām... (aside:) Not too near. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām, getting life after life and enjoying sense: the same eating, the same sleeping, the same sexual intercourse, and same defense, either as dog or as man or as bird or beast. This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). These four things are available, either you become a dog or a god. Not God, these demigods. In the material world, everyone is given the facilities for eating, sleeping, sexual intercourse and defense. Now, if some dangers come, so we may be victims, but a bird immediately goes. He has better defense. Is it not? If some dangers come immediately... Suppose all of a sudden a motorcar comes and kills us. We cannot do anything, but the bird, small bird, "Hut!" He can do that. Is it not? So his defensive measure is better than us. Similarly, I want to have sex.
Prabhupāda: Why do you make a different God? If you actually believe in God, I say, "Here is God." Why don't you accept? Eh?
Satsvarūpa: Impersonalism. They don't want...
Prabhupāda: That is not God. God is person. That means you do not know God.
Devotee: They say Jesus Christ is God too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus Christ is God. That's right. But Jesus Christ said, "I'm son of God."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said, "I'm at the right hand of the Father."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So he's different from the Father.
Prabhupāda: What is that, relation itself? Explain.
Priest: It's when you are two together, when the master...
Prabhupāda: Then two together means person. As soon as you...
Priest: Yes, but not God. God is beyond relation.
Prabhupāda: Why? Your experience of relation, as soon as a relation two, the two persons.
Priest: No.
Prabhupāda: No, why not? This is your practical experience. How you can say no?
Priest: You see, I have got relation...
Prabhupāda: We are two person.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇa is God. God is the idea of greatness. That is Brahman. Or you can say also person, but not the particular person. God means, the Sanskrit word is īśvara, the controller. So everyone is controller to some extent. In his own atmosphere he is a controller, as I am controller of my disciples. So the conception of God is there, but I am not the Supreme God. Therefore, there are two words. We use the word "Godhead," "the Supreme God." That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, īśvara, God. Everyone is God; that is another thing. But īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, the Supreme God, is Kṛṣṇa.
Jyotirmayī: (French)
Prabhupāda: Supreme. We have got experience of īśvara. Just like I said, everyone is īśvara, everyone is a controller. So I am personal, I am also īśvara of my body. I am controlling my body. So in that way, everyone is īśvara. But these īśvaras, they are controlled by another īśvara. We are īśvara, but I am controlled by another īśvara. But īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1), He is īśvara but He is not controlled by anyone. That is paramaḥ, supreme.
Priest: For the north it is south (indistinct).
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, another thing that's stated in the Bible, in the Christians' philosophy, they say that God created man out of His own image. It's stated in the Bible. So therefore man has a form, why not God? Because it's stated there in the Bible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think Bible is on the personal understanding of God. Christ says that he is son of God. Unless one is person, how he can beget a son?
Devotee: They talk about the trilogy—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It is compared like the Father...
Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman, yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11), it is the same idea. Brahman, Holy Ghost, is impersonal, but Son is person and God is also person. I do not know much about, but I have heard from Christians that there is assembly of God, and Lord Christ has got a seat by the side of God. Is not that explained?
Prabhupāda: If God does not supply you... Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, He is supplying for everyone. So if He does not supply, then what your bakery machine will do? It is useless. So people have lost the intelligence in the Communist countries. They think that these government men, they have brought the bread, not God. In this way, they are gradually becoming atheist. But the central point is God. We are preaching the central point is God. You call Him by any name, it doesn't matter, either you call Jehovah or Kṛṣṇa or something, Allah, that doesn't matter. But you accept the authority of God and try to love God. This is our mission. And we say God is person. Impersonal feature, that is a feature only. Just like sun-god is a person and the sunshine is one of the feature of the sun-god. The sunshine is not final. You have to penetrate to the sunshine and reach the sun globe and go within the globe and see that there is the sun-god.
Bhagavān: Is that the same psychology that they, they only know of material body, so when they think of God, they think that God has material body also.
Prabhupāda: That is still lower grade man. But so far experience that "I have not... God is beyond my experience." Another point that in the Bible, Christ, Lord Christ says that "My Lord, Thy be hallowed..." What is that?
Devotees: "Hallowed be Thy name."
Prabhupāda: So God has name.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed by Thy name."
Prabhupāda: Eh? So he admits God has His name. But it may be that he did not disclose or did not like to say, but there is already name. So it is up to the followers to know what is that name.
Yogeśvara: The Guru Maharaji followers say that God's name cannot be pronounced.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: So his point is that, well, ultimately, the, now what is going to happen, he says, is we're going to get into a discussion about whether or not the Supreme is a person or impersonal, and he says he doesn't really have the time to get into that.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then? What did he...? Why he come here? What for?
Yogeśvara: We invited him. (laughter) (French)
Devotee: Well, at the end of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: He says, "Give up all this religiousness, and surrender to Me." The whole purport of the Bhagavad-gītā. He's telling Arjuna to fight, but ultimately in the end, He's saying, "Just forget about all these ideas you have in your head, and surrender to Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: But some of them, I am talking, the some of them. Some of them are not all foolish. Some of them are foolish. So these foolish persons, they say that "I am God. You are God. Everyone is God." That is foolishness. We are not God. We are part and parcel of God, qualitatively one. But we are not the Supreme Being. We are living being but not Supreme Being.
Guest (2): God is inside us.
Prabhupāda: God is inside, outside, everywhere.
Guest (3): Who do you think Jesus Christ was?
Prabhupāda: Now, let us finish one. Jesus Christ himself said that he is son of God. That's all right. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: So the God, He is also with me always as friend. So one, it is said in the Upaniṣad, there are two birds in one tree. The two birds means I, individual soul, and God, the Supreme Soul. The individual soul is limited within this body. And God is everywhere, in every body, in every atomic particle, everywhere. Because I am individual soul, I can understand my bodily pains and pleasure. But I cannot understand your bodily pains and pleasure. But God, being all-pervading, He can understand my pains and pleasure, He can understand your pains and pleasure, He can understand cats' and dogs' pains and..., everyone. This is the difference between me and God. Sometimes they mistake, because God is also within this body, I am also within this body, therefore they think that there is no other individual soul than God, therefore I am God. So if I am God, then you are also God. And if there is more than one God, there is not God. God is one. There cannot be two. So if I think I am God, then everyone is also God, so God becomes plural, so there is not God. God is one. Therefore, God is great, we are small. In quality we are one. Just like the president and the citizen, as man they are one. But in power, the citizen and the president, they are different. So these things can be understood if one is sober and very great thinker: they can understand that God is situated with me, He can help me also.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: To become God conscious is good, and anything else, all bad. God is good. Therefore, if you are God conscious, you are good, and if you are not God conscious, then you are bad.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): If God created man?
Prabhupāda: Yes. God created everything. God created man, God created dog, God created demigods, God created everything.
Professor: He made us imperfect.
Prabhupāda: No, He is not imperfect.
Professor: No, God made us imperfect.
Prabhupāda: No, you have got that... Just like you have stolen, and you have gone to the prison house. That means judge is not imperfect; you are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual master is the servant of God. He is not God. Although he is respected like God. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Spiritual master is described as good as God in all scriptures. And all advanced spiritualists accept this. But he is the most confidential servant of God. Because he receives respect like God, he does not think at any time that he is God. He always thinks himself as eternal servant of God. (pause) (break) What is the difference between animal and man?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels that they are both animals. The difference is that one is rational, and the other is not.
Prabhupāda: Then you are God?
Ānanda-mārga woman: I am not God. I am just... I truly experience this God through me all the time.
Prabhupāda: You say that you and God, one, and again you say that you are not...
Ānanda-mārga woman: If I meditate, then I become surrendered to God. And I'm trying to do that by trying to take this distance away.
Prabhupāda: That means when you surrender to God, then you become God, that you are surrendered God, and He is the person to be surrendered. There are two Gods, why not? You say, "I surrender to God."
Ānanda-mārga woman: I said when I surrender to God...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means God is different from you; otherwise how you can surrender to Him?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We say frankly that we know God, His father's name, His address, everything. Let anyone come and challenge. He cannot say that "No, this is not God," because he has not approached God. He does not know what is God. How he can challenge us that "This is not God"? Suppose we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as God, so how anyone can challenge? Because he has not approached God. He is simply speculating.
Prajāpati: And not even on his own. He's simply approaching other speculators.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prajāpati: One speculator simply approaches other speculators.
Prabhupāda: So how they can say, "This is not God"? Is it possible to say? We say, "Here is Kṛṣṇa, God." Why not discuss this point for our preaching work. Call all the sannyāsīs.
Śrutakīrti: Call the sannyāsīs?
Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) Theologician. You know?
Prabhupāda: Then... Either Christian tradition... Then it becomes bound up by the Christian ideas.
Prajāpati: And that is exactly the situation today.
Prabhupāda: But that is not God. Just like gold. Gold is everywhere gold. Because it is in Christian country, you cannot say, "It is Christian gold." And because it is in Muslim country, you cannot say, "It is Muslim gold." Gold is the world standard of money. The same gold, dispatched from America, can be accepted in India. Dispatched from India, it can be accepted in Palestine because it is gold. Everyone who knows what is gold, he'll accept it. So God should be like that. And therefore the name Kṛṣṇa, "all-attractive"... When there is gold, either you be Christian, Muslim, Hindu—"Oh, here is a lump of gold. Can I possess it?" That is attraction. So as gold is all-attractive, similarly, God must be all-attractive. And that word is used as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. One who knows gold, he'll be attracted. Doesn't matter whether he's Hindu or Muslim, Christian, poor, rich man, black, white. It doesn't matter. Here is gold, and everyone... Just like in your country there was gold rush. Eh? In California? From all different parts of the world they came. So gold is gold for everyone. So now one should try to understand or check what is gold. That is required.
Prabhupāda: No, let me finish this. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa is the name of God,... I have explained what is the idea of Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. The example is given: Just like gold. Gold is attractive to everyone—to the educated, the uneducated, to the black, to the white, man, woman, everyone. One who knows God, er, one who knows gold-gold is attractive. Similarly, God is all-attractive. There cannot be that "It is black gold," "It is white gold," "It is Christian gold," "It is Hindu gold." No. Gold is gold. So we present Kṛṣṇa that "Here is God, all-attractive." Now you say, "No, He's not God." Then you present your God.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, I know just the...
Prabhupāda: You cannot say, reject. They cannot reject Kṛṣṇa unless you present an alternative.
Prabhupāda: That is intelligence—you surrender. You are surrendering to māyā, to your wife, to your dog, to your family, to your house, to your nation. Why not God? You rascal. You are surrendering to so many other things. Why not to God?
Rūpānuga: Just like you told that Russian professor that he is surrendering to Lenin, but we are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: But everyone has to surrender.
Prabhupāda: Surrender, this, that is the only way. You cannot become independent. You have to surrender. Who is a man who has not surrendered? At least he finds out a dog and surrenders to him. (laughter) In your country there are so many people living with the dog. So surrender is the only business of you. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). (pause) So Acyutānanda cannot come?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Then...
Jayādvaita: ...an imperfection.
Prabhupāda: That is not the... Then you do not understand. Ācārya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is ācārya.
Jayādvaita: And that is the perfection.
Prabhupāda: That is the perfection. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jayādvaita: So we have a misunderstanding about what perfection is?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perfection is here, how he is preaching bhakti cult. That's all.
Mother: So we all believe in the one God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is one. God cannot be two. Then He is not God. There cannot be two Gods. God is one. Otherwise how..., what is the meaning of God?
Mother: That's right.
Prabhupāda: So, find out this, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7).
Paramahaṁsa:
- mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
- kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
- mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ
- sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
- (BG 7.7)
Translation: "O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread."
Prabhupāda: Simple thing. You chant Kṛṣṇa, easy thing, and you remain with Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? Because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's form... This picture is here; then Kṛṣṇa is here. You have to realize that. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa now with your material eyes, so Kṛṣṇa has appeared before you so that you can see Him with your material eyes. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. But He is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is everything. God is everything. So why the picture of God is not God? We say "God is omnipotent, omnipresent." So why Kṛṣṇa is not present in the picture? Then what is the meaning of omnipresent? If He is omnipresent, He is present also within His picture. Where is the objection? And that's a fact. He is omnipresent. He is present everywhere. Now, to become convenient for you, He has appeared like picture.
Prabhupāda: No, what is the reasoning yours, that you deny father?
Guest (3): The father must have a father too, mustn't he?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, there must be supreme father.
Guest (3): Well, who is the supreme father's father?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is enquiry, that you have got your father, your father has got father, he has got his father, he has got... Who is the supreme father? He is God.
Guest (1): Who is God's father?
Prabhupāda: Nobody is His father. That is God. God is everyone's father, but He is without father. That is God. So long one has got father, he is not God. When you come to the point that here is the person who has no father—He is independent—that is God. The definition of God is given in the Vedic literature.
Prabhupāda: That is a theory, that is a theory, that is not fact.
Jesuit: No, it's a false theory because it goes against all logic and philosophy.
Prabhupāda: But no, theory in this form that God is everywhere, by His potency but everything is not God. This is our philosophy. God is everywhere. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spread everywhere but that does not mean that everything is sun.
Jesuit: That's true.
Prabhupāda: It is like that. God is all-pervading by His potency. This book, this is also energy of God. Find out this verse, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4).
Prabhupāda: God is great. He's great in every respect, in strength...
Jesuit: Is He a person?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless... A person... What is the meaning of great?
Jesuit: Well you can speak about a mountain being great and that's not God.
Prabhupāda: But God can swallow millions of mountains. That is God. Your conception is: mountain is very great. But our conception is: God is so great that He can swallow millions of mountains. So whose greatness is greater, the mountain's or God's?
Jesuit: Well it's a different order altogether, one's...
Prabhupāda: "God is great," means whatever greatness, just as sky is the great, there are millions of sky, that is God's...
Prabhupāda: That's it. So God being all spirit, His energy is also spirit. His energy cannot be different. But in this material energy we forget God. Therefore it is called material. If we know that this wood is also energy of God, that is spiritual understanding. And if we think that wood has come independently from any other source, that is material. In the Vedānta-sūtra this is discussed in the beginning athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the Absolute Truth. The answer is janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "The Absolute Truth is that, or is the source of everything, Absolute Truth." So there are two things, material and spiritual. So both are coming from God. Just like darkness and light, two sides of the sun. So when there is light, we call day; when it is darkness, we call night. But they are simply two sides of the sun, the supreme light, or the material light. Similarly, material is darkness, and spiritual is light. Both sides. Sometime it is said "The spiritual is the front side of God, and material is the back side of God."
So your back side or front side, they are the same. So similarly... Therefore this pantheism, they say, "Why should we take? This is back side? Everything is God." That is their philosophy. They say that everything is God, pantheism. But that is not perfect knowledge. Everything is God, and again, everything is not God.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee 5: You have said, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God." Well, um, what I want to know is, is not God eternal, therefore how was there a beginning? And if the beginning was the word, who was it spoken by or how was it spoken if it was the beginning?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? In the beginning there was word. So what is the difficulty to understand?
Devotee 1:. He's saying if everything is eternal, then how was there a beginning?
Prabhupāda: Beginning of this material world. This material world has beginning and end. Just like this material season, it has beginning and end. Hm. This is troublesome.
Prabhupāda: That's all. This is God's will. It is not secret. It is open. But the thing is that everyone has got his different God.
Yogi Bhajan: Well, question is very fundamental. Everybody has his own God, so let everybody bring one's own God in understanding. It's not... God is...
Prabhupāda: God... you have got own God. God says, "Always think of Me."
Yogi Bhajan: Um hm. That's true.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. The followers may think of Him. Man-manā. "You become My devotee, become My devotee and worship Me and offer respect to Me," that's all. So we are teaching our student, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, always think of Him. You just offer your respect and worship Him. In this way become His devotee." We do not... Spiritually, thing is (?) (indistinct) That's all right. And they are doing that and they are getting the result. We do not say that "Sit down, press your nose, and meditate and this, that," or, no. Simple thing. There is God, we have got our temple... (Aside:)
Prabhupāda: So therefore man is subordinate to God. So why the people are denying the supremacy of God? Just like so-called scientists, rascals, they say, "There is no God." Immediately they should be taken as rascals. Why they should be given this title, "scientist"? He does not know who is his superior. They should be condemned immediately. Anyone who denies God, he is a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher amongst the fools, but he is a rascal. He does not know his subordinate position. Immediately designate him, "You are rascal. You have no position because you do not know your superior." In this way you have to study. Then these rascals will be caught up, how great rascals they are, denying the existence of God. So we have to teach people like that, that "Don't follow these rascals." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Anyone who is not God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is immediately grouped amongst the miscreants, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means very meritorious. Just like these scientists.
Woman: You have said that you are very small and that you are not God, and yet it appears to me as an outsider that the devotees treat you as if you were God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotee's duty. Just like a government officer. Personally he is not very important, but so long he executes government order, he should be respected as government. That is the way. Even a ordinary policeman comes, you have to respect him because he is government man. But that does not mean he is government. He is respected. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. If that man thinks that "I have become government. People are respecting me," then he is foolish. So... But it is the etiquette. If the government man comes, you should respect him as government.
Woman: Along the same idea, I wonder also about the many beautiful material things that the devotees bring to you, and, for instance, when you left the airport, you left in a beautiful, big, fancy car, and I wonder about this because...
Prabhupāda: No, no. The only thing that God is one, that you have to accept. God cannot be many. If God has got competitor, then he is not God.
Prof. Hopkins: Okay.
Prabhupāda: So if we don't admit Kṛṣṇa is the only God then you present who is only God. You say me. Either you have to learn from me or I have to learn from you.
Prof. Hopkins: So to insist...
Prabhupāda: If you do not know what is God you cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." As soon as you say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God," that means you must know what is God. You present. But if you cannot present, you say, "No, I do not know God," then you cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God."
Prabhupāda: So they are dogmatic. Dogmatically they are saying, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." He does not know God and he says, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." So what is this nonsense? You do not know God. How you can say Kṛṣṇa is not God?
Prof. Hopkins: I agree with you, I just... I want to get... (laughter) If we're dogmatic, we're on the same side.
Prabhupāda: We are not dogmatic. Those people who are talking us as dogmatic, he is dogmatic. He does not know God, and when God is presented before him, he says, "No, He is not God." That is dogmatic.
Prof. Hopkins: Would you... Do you feel that those who've had genuine religious, spiritual understanding would not have that kind of argument?
Prabhupāda: Yes. One... We say... I do not say, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that... Find out this verse,
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
- Find out. Seventh chapter.
Prabhupāda: As soon as one denies Kṛṣṇa is not God, then he comes within those categories: miscreant, rascal, lowest of the mankind, his knowledge is taken away by māyā, and he's a demon.
Prof. Hopkins: (laughs) That's a strong statement.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. If he does not know, then he must be amongst these groups.
Prof. Hopkins: What if someone says, "Śiva is God?"
Prabhupāda: He may say, but śāstra doesn't say.
Prof. Hopkins: So you...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayādvaita: Now, in the modern days, they take it the other way, that "Everything is God, so I can do anything."
Prabhupāda: But you are not God. You are rascal. (laughter) That is Māyāvāda theory, that "Because God is everything, therefore I am God." That is Māyāvāda. Just like Vivekananda said, "Why you are finding out here and there God? Here is God, so many, on this street." That is his theory.
Jayādvaita: There was a book-yesterday someone was showing me—where Meher Baba was saying that everyone is in God and therefore everyone is God.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Everyone is within the space; therefore everyone is space? (laughter) Just see the logic. Such rascals, they are God.
Prabhupāda: Why there should be different...? President is one, and everyone knows he is one. Why there be lots... That means they do not know. If there is... Just like now Mr. Ford is president. So nobody can say, "Now Mr. John is president." Mr. Ford is president. You cannot say, "Mr. John is president," "Mr. such and such is president," "I suggest," "I..." "It may be like that." Why may be? Actually Mr. Ford is president. And one who says, "May be like this," he does not know who is the president. As soon as he says, "God may be like this," that means he does not know what is God. So there cannot be different description of God. God is one. One must know who is that God. That is education. Now, we are teaching that, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Now it is up to you to test whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not God. But if you know what is God, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (3): Satya... (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...is not God?
Indian man (3): Lord Kṛṣṇa is not God.
Indian man (2): According to him.
Indian man (3): Lord Kṛṣṇa was the greatest man ever born. He was not God.
Indian man (2): You see, he has got the principles of Ārya-samāj. Because he is... "Everybody is God." That is his... They are brainwashed. Brainwash is there.
Prabhupāda: What is God? Let us have, understand.
Indian man (3): God has no form.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Indian man (3): Why? Because that is a principle.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Indian man (3): Everywhere. But He is not that mūrti. He is not that mūrti.
Prabhupāda: That is your version. But we are not so fool that we are going to see something which is not God. We are not so fool.
Indian man (3): Well, then, your opinion may be different. My opinion is quite different.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing. But when we go to see God in the temple, we see God, nothing else. That experience you haven't got.
Indian man (3): Mūrti, simply that mūrti? Nothing else.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...
Indian man (2): The confirmation you haven't got at the present moment. Thereafter you will get a realization, afterwards. (laughter) (break)
Indian man (2): And about forty people are here all over, coming since about fifteen years, or twenty years.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He entered Jagannātha temple, He immediately fainted: "Oh, here is my Lord." So it is the question of seeing.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Now the village program of Gandhi is lost.
Dr. Patel: Absolutely. But whatever he has got, he had a lot of vidhi-niṣedha...
Prabhupāda: And it is lost because it was not God-centered. It is lost.
Dr. Patel: But he was God conscious. I mean, I have been brought up in that camp. Gandhi was a saint. But these people could not follow him. They have not understood him well. Those people who understood him, they died out. They died out.
Prabhupāda: Now, now, Gandhi's āśrama, was there any temple for worshiping Kṛṣṇa? No.
Dr. Patel: They had a temple. My wife was brought up there in the āśrama.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have an Islamic propagation center here, and I went there. I was walking by one day. They invited me in. So they began to blaspheme this and that. So I asked them, "What is your conception of God?" He said, "God is beyond conception." So I told him that "Therefore you cannot say that Kṛṣṇa is God and you cannot say that Kṛṣṇa is not God, because you don't know what God is."
Prabhupāda: Then what did he say?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't reply.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you have no conception of God, how can you deny or accept? Remain fool, that's all. That is the difficulty. When you ask them, whole world, "What is the conception of God?" they'll not be able to answer. Still, they will say there is no God. This is the foolishness going on all over the world. Actually they are not concerned with God. They accept the idea of God or so-called God for their material facilities. "O God, give us our daily bread. That's all. If You supply daily bread, then I accept You. Otherwise I reject You." This is their... When there is a war, Churchill will ask them to go, victory, "V": "Go and pray to God." God is order-supplier. And when they declare war, they do not consult God. When there is reverse condition they go to it.
Indian man (2): But do I mean that up till now your excellency were giving the question of transmigration, field of science, and now you are also taking that subject of God in this sphere of science?
Prabhupāda: It is not God. God is far away. First of all I must know what I am. God is long, long distant.
Indian man (2): But what should be the...
Prabhupāda: First of all you understand what you are, whether you are this body or something other than the body. That is first.
Indian man 2: Whether we are different or separate from God, or we are God. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That also dog can say, "I am also God." That is not very difficult thing.
Prabhupāda: Then how we can accept that? Drug is a material thing, chemical composition, and how it can help one, God realization? That is not possible. This is a kind of intoxication and hallucination, but it is not God realization.
Faill: Do you think that the great mystics down the ages have actually seen this spark? This is what...
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by mystic?
Faill: Well, there seem to be chaps who've had some very odd experience and always remembered it and found it very difficult to put it down in words.
Prabhupāda: Mystic means something jugglery? What do you mean by mystic?
Faill: Well, it's just the name they seem to give people who've had an experience of another level of reality.
Prabhupāda: Now, just to understand that I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so the chemical and the water and the earth is coming from my body, so why not Kṛṣṇa's body, gigantic, the greatest, the chemicals, water, earth, water...? When Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo, "It is My energy," that's fact. Where is the difficulty to understand? We can... We are little sample of God, a small God. So if we can produce, this body... The spirit soul as I have described yesterday, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, it is very, very minute. From that minute spirit so much earth, water, fire is coming. So why not the supreme spirit, huge quantity of water, earth, will not come? How one can deny it?
Harikeśa: Well, but verbal analogies don't prove the scientific a fact.
Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. Verbal analogy is proof. A small quantity, a small quantity producing; large quantity, large quantity producing. Where is the verbal? This is practical.
Prabhupāda: They are so foolish. I very strongly talk with them. Still, stubborn, doggish. That scientist, I told him in his..., that "You are a demon." I told him, "You are a demon." So he tolerated. (laughs)
Dr. Patel: They are serving the Mammon and not God.
Prabhupāda: So, so many psychologists, psychiatrists, scientists, they come there in Los Angeles.
Dr. Patel: I mean, the psychologists are the real science which can lead a man to the higher understanding of life, psychologists. The abstract sciences of biology and psychics, chemistry, are little lower sciences. The psychology is much higher.
Prabhupāda: No science is perfect. Asato dhavato bahiḥ.
Dr. Patel: In imperfection also there can be gradations.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is the Sāṅkhya philosophers. That is their theory. Prakṛti and puruṣa come in contact by chance, and there is creation. Not God created. Their theory is, the prakṛti and puruṣa, they come in contact by chance, and there is creation.
Dr. Patel: But sir, this Sāṅkhya philosophy also believes in Vedas. And Vedas says sa aik sata.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Sāṅkhya philosophy by the original Kapila, that is on the basis of Vedas. And this later Sāṅkhya philosophy...
Dr. Patel: Must be some another rascal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Now you have learned! (everyone laughs very loudly)
Dr. Patel: I am learning. (laughs raucously)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! There are two sāṅkhyas. Kapila. One Kapila is..., therefore he is described everywhere as devahūti-putra.
Dr. Patel: So what do you think about this America has supplied a lot of grain free of charge to this country, and that grain is fed to the whole of this poor population, and they are not God believers?
Prabhupāda: No, no. The Americans, they give to the government, and they are free. They have given to the government.
Dr. Patel: Sattvika dāna.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The government, Indian government, is in necessity. In necessity, "All right, give it to the government." Their duty is finished. But if the government is rascal, that is their responsibility.
Dr. Patel: But suppose you had given me a knife to mend the pencil, and I stab somebody with it. So, like that.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Theirs is really culture. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tam manye' dhitam uttamam, śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu-smaraṇam pāda-sevanam arcanam. Tam manye' dhityam uttamam, he is first-class educated. This is recommendation by Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says, "If one is not God-conscious: duṣkṛtino, mūḍhā, narādhamā, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā." Where is their qualification? Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha. Where is culture? Suppose you steal by tricks, by, I mean to say, by legal tricks, does it mean it is culture? But that is going on.
Dr. Patel: That means, sir, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ, yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). That should be the background of all the governments.
Prabhupāda: That is bhagavad-bhakti... (end)
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And actually that is fact.
Indian man: This was.... Even Acyutānanda said the other day. Somebody asked us that question, "Why not 'God conscious'? Why do you want 'Kṛṣṇa'?" He also said the same thing. (break) "What is the difference between thieving the butter and other things by Lord Kṛṣṇa and thieving by us?" I said "The thieving is thieving." I said, "How can there be theft of..." (break)
Prabhupāda: And if you steal, you will be beaten with shoes.
Indian man: We are beaten with shoes, but He is allowed.
Prabhupāda: Not only allowed, but He is worshiped: "Sir, it is very kind of You that You have stolen."
Prabhupāda: There are many Māyāvādīs.
Yaśodānandana: They may not like, but they cannot prove the contrary. They cannot prove that Kṛṣṇa is not the Supreme.
Indian man (1): Even in cinema, when they see the picture of Kṛṣṇa, the audience will feel very happy.
Acyutānanda: Our cinema or on the outside?
Indian man (1): Ordinary cinemas also.
Acyutānanda: There is one actor who always plays Kṛṣṇa, N.T. Ramaram. So once he came on the street and everyone came following him and touching his feet.
Prabhupāda: Acchā?
Madhudviṣa: So therefore they say God is covered.
Prabhupāda: Not God. You are covered.
Pañcadraviḍa: But you are God, they say.
Prabhupāda: So you are God, but you are covered by this body. So as soon as the body is finished, you mix with. Just like you take one pot and you take water. The water is there, but if you break this pot, the water comes and mixes with.
Pañcadraviḍa: Then what is their reason for not becoming the biggest rascal? Why not become the biggest rascal? The pot's going to break anyway. What difference does it make? Why not become a big rascal and enjoy?
Madhudviṣa: Because the Māyāvādīs, they also perform some austerity and tapasya.
Prabhupāda: Just to break the pot. That is their (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana.
Dr. Patel: In His original.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). This is God. Not that... (Hindi) That is not God. God is in His apartment, at the same time everywhere. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). That is God. (Hindi) Without knowing God, they are becoming God.
Dr. Patel: God has made them mūḍhas by His māyā, sir.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They have become. They don't want to... Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante (BG 7.15). (Hindi) That is in insisting. (Hindi) Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati. Dharmasya glāniḥ (BG 4.7). means when the people become mūḍha.
Prabhupāda: I think we have got, eh?
Dr. Patel: The Six Gosvāmīs. I just look at him. American scientists don't come to my rescue. (break) (laughs) (Hindi) Our ātmā.... (Hindi) Kuṇape tri-dhātuke. We are not God conscious, any one of us. Practically hardly for us, small way, perhaps. So we are go-khara, then, in right sense.
Prabhupāda: When he admits that he's a go-khara, he's not go-khara.
Dr. Patel: He's not go-khara.
Prabhupāda: He's no more go-khara.
Dr. Patel: Really? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Because go-kharas, they cannot understand their mistake. And as soon as one admits that he's mistaken, then he's human being.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That action was created by God. That accident was created by God.
Hari-śauri: Also, a cartoon somebody put in the paper and it shows...
Prabhupāda: They'll accept accident, but not God. Just see his intelligence. He'll accept accident, but not God.
Devotee (2): Most of the philosophers who have this atheistic philosophy, most of them are trained...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are suffering. Why don't you see that? Some of them dying by eating their own stool?
Devotee (2): Actually, at the end of his life, he (indistinct) some disease, and he went literally crazy.
Prabhupāda: Anything without devotion to the Lord is harmful to the humanity. Anything, either karmī or jñānī or siddhi, it is all harmful, because all these things will keep him aloof from God. His mission is that he is separated from God. His mission should be how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So all these things—bhukti, mukti, siddhi—will keep him aloof from God. Therefore it is harmful. It will not allow him to go nearer to God, and that is harmful. That is the greatest harm. Being aloof from God, he's suffering. So these bhukti, mukti, siddhi will keep him aloof from God. He'll falsely think that "I am God." Yogis, if they can show some mystic yogic power, then naturally foolish people will think him that "Oh, here is God." And he's satisfied with that. He's not God, but foolish people will adore him as God, and he's satisfied. That means he keeps himself aloof from God. After this mystic power is gone, then he is no more valuable. So anything which keeps one aloof from God, that is harmful.
Prabhupāda: So if he's eternal fragmental parts, how he can become one with the whole? The part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. This is wrong conception, to become like God. The Māyāvādīs, they are trying to become God. That is impossible. They... Let them remain godly. Godly means servant of God. That will make him perfection, his life perfect. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is to remain, to act as servant of God. That is perfect. And if the servant tries to become like the master, that is artificial. Although in the spiritual world there is no difference between the master and the servant... Just like the boys, Kṛṣṇa's cowherd boy friends, they do not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They are playing with Him on equal terms. When Kṛṣṇa is defeated in the play He has to take His friend on His shoulder and he rides on the shoulder. So there is no such distinction who is God and who is not God. So that is spiritual conception. But the difference is always there. God and the part and parcel. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. We can attain that position after many, many lives' pious activities. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: There is somebody supreme. So if I say, because I am Hindu, I am Indian, that "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme," you may say, "Then why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is Indian." "No. He is God. Just like the sun rises first in India, then comes to Europe. But that does not mean the sun is different. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, although appeared in India, now He has come to Western countries, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You try to understand whether Kṛṣṇa is not God or God. But He is God. There is no doubt about it. If you have got intelligence to understand what is God, then try to understand. But He is God undoubtedly. So take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Then everyone comes on the same platform, the religious platform, one religion, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Question 19, this is...
Prabhupāda: Now, this is clear or not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: Anyone? We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our business is to surrender to Him. And Kṛṣṇa personally advises that "You surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." This is religion.
Prabhupāda: No, they are passing resolution. Suppose there is a law of the state, ordinary, say, "Keep to the right," and in this village all members, they assemble together and pass a resolution that "No, keep to the left." Will it be accepted? Even they pass a resolution, the state will not accept it. Unless it is... Of course, there should be no change. But, anything spoken by God or His son or His representative, that cannot be changed. It is not that Christ said two thousand years ago, "Thou shall not kill," now it can be changed. That is rascaldom. They are doing that. If you do that, then, as it is said here, then it becomes lost. Then there is no meaning. If we take the instruction of God and His representative as temporary, then he is not representative, He is not God. Whatever is spoken by God and His representative, that is eternal. You cannot change by your whims. So that is going on. We..., I do not wish to discuss very much, but that is actually going on. As people they, by votes in the Parliament, they pass any nonsense thing, so they want to do that in the case of Bible also. Then where is the authority of Bible? If Christ says that "Thou shall not kill," and if people, say ten thousand people in a meeting pass resolution, "No, this is wrong," then where is the authority of Bible? Then you become authority.
Dr. Sukla: Tulasi dāsa has also said that who is not God, Kṛṣṇa, conscious, you should treat them like your enemy.
Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that asat-saṅga tyāga vaiṣṇava ācāra. The Vaiṣṇava's behavior is to give up bad company. Who is bad? Next question will be that "I have to give up the bad company. Who is bad?" Then He says, next line: asat stri saṅgī 'kṛṣṇabhakta' āra. Two words. Those who are too much attached to woman and those who are not devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they are bad. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says give up the company of these two bad men, that's all. That is Vaiṣṇava. So everything is there. If you simply follow with sincerity, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. As Arjuna says, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73)." That's all. He becomes perfect. And Kṛṣṇa immediately accepts, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). He becomes immediately recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Priya-kṛttamaḥ, superlative. Priya-kṛt, priya-kṛtara, priya-kṛttamaḥ. So let us follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, our life will be perfect. That is a fact. Don't divert your attention here and there.
Prabhupāda: That is greatness. This is the distinction. God is great. I know about my body, you know about your body, but God knows about your body and my body and his body and every... That is greatness. That is explained. That is the distinction. I am small, He is great. I cannot think beyond the scope of this body, or little more. But he knows everything. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). That is His greatness. So in this way, we study the greatness of God, then we can understand what is God and what is not God.
Guest (4): Thanks.
Prabhupāda: What is the purport?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "While discussing the subject of this body and the owner of the body, the soul and the Supersoul, we shall find three different topics of study: the Lord, the living entity, and matter. In every field of activities, in every body, there are two souls: the individual soul and the Supersoul. Because the Supersoul is the plenary expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, 'I am also the knower, but I am not the individual owner of the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So-called intelligent, they are not intelligent. They have lost their sense by the influence of māyā. Even big, big men, they say that Kṛṣṇa, this Kṛṣṇa is not God. "The God Kṛṣṇa is different" and so on, so on. Do they not say like that?
Indian man (3): I wanted to ask you a question. While talking to some of the European people, when we say that Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that asked him to fight, kill his own relatives and friends and not to bother about the consequences of the action. Now this statement sometimes is difficult for people of the West to understand, where they say before you do any action you should know the consequences and then only take action...
Prabhupāda: That is the only statement in the Bhagavad-gītā? There is no other statement?
Bali-mardana: Yes, as long as the candidate is not God conscious it wouldn't make any difference which way we vote, but if he's God conscious, then we'll vote.
Interviewer: Well, would he have to be in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement to be God conscious?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bali-mardana: Would the candidate, in order for a candidate to be God conscious, would he have to be part of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?
Prabhupāda: He must know the science, this science, this spiritual science.
Interviewer: To be God conscious, you must...
Prabhupāda: That's a great science.
Bali-mardana: Great science.
Interviewer: How's that?
Hari-śauri: He's producing a watch, then it's a watch that's made by some manufacturer. It's not made by Sai Baba. Like that. So there was a comment that even if he has some... He may have some supernatural power, but he's not God.
Pradyumna: He has some yogic siddhi, but he cannot be God because he does not create.
Prabhupāda: So this paper is against Sai Baba also?
Pradyumna: No. On the front page it says... Because he is doing a lot of educational... He has made all these universities and health centers and everything. So it says that he is doing good to the people. So for that reason they said, "We don't want to see him criticized."
Prabhupāda: God is one. Others, they are... Just like president is one. Others are government servant. Similarly, God is one. There cannot be other God. Then he is not God.
Guest (Indian man): But Kṛṣṇa says in Gītā, rudrāṇāṁ śaṅkaro 'smi.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Rudrāṇāṁ śaṅkaro 'smi. That means just like Śaṅkara has got some godly power.
Guest: Suppose if someone worships, they are worshiper of Śiva.
Prabhupāda: But that is not God worship. That is Śiva worship. Why do you bring God worship?
Guest: God, (indistinct) ...these are going directly to the Śiva.
Indian man: I have to think in my own way.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is not God. God is almighty.
Indian man: And now you are explaining that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you have to go to the right master.
Indian man: They say in their own way. How you search out the right master.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I am speaking on the basis of the Bhagavad-gītā. I am not manufacturing.
Indian man: True.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is master. Master means he will not manufacture. Lawyer means who will speak in the court with reference to the lawbook. Not that "My Lordship I have manufactured this way. You accept it." "Get out. Get out, rascal. You are not a lawyer." So this is going on. The rascals are going to be lawyer, without understanding.
Prabhupāda: That means you are thinking in your own particular way. But Kṛṣṇa is not subjected to your thinking. You have to give up this bad habit first of all, that Kṛṣṇa will be subordinate to your thinking. That is not God.
Indian man: How to give up this bad habit?
Prabhupāda: That means you have to become a bhakta. So long... You are thinking as jñānī. Therefore... Jñānī cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Only the bhakta can understand.
Indian man: Because he thinks in other ways.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he cannot understand. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvam (SB 10.14.29). One who is fully surrendered... Not fully, even little surrendered, he can understand. (bell rings) Otherwise, ciraṁ vicinvan. He can speculate for long, long years, for long long years. Still he cannot. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvam. He can understand. Na ca anya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan. Others, even one of them, simply by speculating they cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: Asura-buddhi and sura-buddhi. Due to our little independence. Just like we are talking. So we do not agree. Therefore we are talking. So one of us may be asura and one may be sura. Therefore we do not agree. Otherwise, there is no use of talking. So that is natural. That is the conditioned stage. Because we are conditioned by the material nature, some of us are asuras and some of them suras. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke 'smin daiva āsura eva ca (BG 16.6). There are two kinds of men. Daiva, devatā and asura. Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ smṛto daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are devatā, and just opposite number is asura. Who does not recognize the authority of God, he is asura. He himself becomes God foolishly. That is not God. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. This, about the sun, description in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimited potency, energy, heating energy.
Prabhupāda: Politics. Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta. Senayor ubhayor madhye. (BG 1.21) "Between the two soldiers, keep my chariot, my dear Acyuta." He is addressing Acyuta. Acyuta, Kṛṣṇa, agreed to become his chariot driver. Therefore he is purposefully using this word acyuta. "Because I know You are the Supreme Lord, and I am ordering You, but because You promised that You will carry my order, Acyuta, You never fail in Your word." So God's another name is Acyuta. God never falls down. This Māyāvādī theory that "I am God, now I am fallen down," That is wrong theory. How God can fall down? If God falls down He is not God. Dog falls down, not the God.
Mr. Malhotra: How can he be supreme if he can fall down?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried. That is described by Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Hiraṇyakaśipu... After all, they are father and son. He inquired from the son, "My dear son, what best thing you have learned?"S So he said, "My dear..." He did not say "My dear father." He said "The best of the asuras." He addressed his father, "The best of the asuras." Tat sādhu manye asura varya dehinam. "My dear the best of the asuras..." He was the best of the asuras. "So I think that is best education..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehināṁ sadā samudvignam asad-grahāt. (break) We have got good rooms like this, not that one has to go to the forest. Even in the Vṛndāvana we have got very good room, but nobody's coming. This is the position. After fiftieth year, voluntarily one must commit civil suicide—no family. And that is Vedic. But he will think of family up to the point of being killed by this revolver. This is going on. Even Gandhi, what to speak of others. He presented himself as very tyāgī, but unless he was killed, he did not give up his ambition. "How my sons, how my countrymen will be happy?" And what happiness you can give? You are not God. Who is taking care of them? But this is māyā. He was thinking, "If I am not there, then whatever I have got, it will be finished."
Prabhupāda: Yes. They make God under his condition. That is not God. God cannot be under your condition.
Hari-śauri: God cannot have sixteen thousand wives. God cannot appear at all.
Rāmeśvara: They say that if God had all of these things, then He would have revealed them in the Bible.
Prabhupāda: Because you cannot, rascal, manage that. That is the difference between him and God. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palaces. You cannot maintain one apartment.
Rāmeśvara: In the Bible...
Prabhupāda: You tell them like that: "You are so poor that you are afraid to maintain even one wife. So how you can be equal with God?"
Prabhupāda: The substance is different; then God... There is no God. Either Kṛṣṇa is not God, Jehovah is not God. Just like gold...
Rāmeśvara: They say that because Kṛṣṇa displayed His activities when He was here...
Prabhupāda: Yes. God will play. That is God. God is not dead. Your God is dead. Our God is alive. That is the difference. God must be alive. Why God should be dead? (break) So you are under God's control. Then you say whether Jehovah is God or Kṛṣṇa is God. First of all you must know. You must let us know what do you mean by God. If you describe, "I mean God... by the word God, I mean this," then see whether it is applicable to Jehovah or to Kṛṣṇa. It is not the name. It is the person and the symptom. Just like water is liquid. So you say water, I say jal. But the liquidity of water is the same. So first of all you know what is the nature of God. Then you may say "Jehovah," I may say "Kṛṣṇa," another may say something else. It doesn't matter. Water is water. That is liquid. That's all. So first of all ascertain what is the symptom of God. Can we challenge them that "What is the symptom? How do you know that here is God?" Just like we understand here is water.
Rāmeśvara: They will find out that there is an Indian...
Prabhupāda: The atheist class...
Rāmeśvara: Yes. They'll find out, "Oh, it says God died. What is this?" Then they'll challenge, that "This is not God. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man."
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are taking Kṛṣṇa on your level. You are such a rascal. You do not know Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddh... (BG 7.3), yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. You are taking Him on your level. Therefore you are trying to criticize Him. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is your ignorance. What is food for one is poison for others. So for you it is poison, not for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is God. He has everything. He can use everything. That is God. He is not restricted by anyone. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Who can restrict Him? Then He's not God. If by a third-class man like you He's restricted of His sex life, then He's not God. He becomes under your control. But Kṛṣṇa is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He's the supreme controller. How He can be controlled by your so-called goodness and badness? So the conclusion is you do not know Kṛṣṇa. You want to bring Kṛṣṇa in your level of understanding, and that is your foolishness. So we don't care for the fools like you.
Prabhupāda: No, no, government means who is controlling the activities of the citizens. That's all. That is everywhere the same. There may be little difference in the formula, but the principle is the same, that there is a controller and citizens following that controlling rules. Then it is good government. So similarly, the supreme government—there is God, and He has His rules and regulations—if you follow, then you are religious. And God cannot be two. God is one. Otherwise how He is God? If God has competition, then He's not God. (chuckles)
Guest (2): Yes. (chuckling) Except for Kṛṣṇa, no other order is told even. What śāstra says...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as God, that is your business. But Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara, god... There are many gods, but the Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. They were saying, those two Bengali gentlemen this morning, the film producers, were saying that the scholars here now and some of the newspaper people are beginning to expose, that "This is a complete cheater. This Sai Baba is cheating, and why are the innocent people falling for him? What kind of fool is he that he says he's God?" It's a good thing that they're exposing him, because he was the most acclaimed so-called "bhagavān" of them all. He is the most respected around India of all of these bogus gurus.
Bali-mardana: Now all the other gurus have faded away. You are...
Hari-śauri: There's only you left, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Bali-mardana: You're the only one left. All the bogus gurus have faded away. The Maharishi...
Prabhupāda: How can I give them? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ: (BG 7.15) "Anyone who has not fully surrendered to..., he is this, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ." That's a fact. Just see. This man has got some intelligence. He's simply cheating. This is duṣkṛtina. He should have preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has got intelligence. He has created a position, means this is intelligent. But that intelligence he's applying for declaring himself as God. Therefore duṣkṛtina. Intelligence being used for some bad purpose. He's not God. Cheating purpose. He knows it. Everyone knows that he does not know. But he is using his intelligence for some bad purpose for making some temporary position. How rascal he is. He's not God. Suppose he is accepted as God. But he is imitation or cheating God. How long it will go on? But he's such a rascal he does not know that. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23).
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says... That is the principle. This is, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). "You have to take all the sinful reactions." This is the principle, that Kṛṣṇa is God. He can nullify everything. But I am not God. When it is overloaded, I have to suffer. This is the principle that the Christian idea that Christ takes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The trouble with the Christians is that they never relieved Christ. They go on sinning. That's not love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The principle is that the spiritual master takes all the resultant sinful action, but the disciple also says that "Now, stop it. Otherwise my spiritual master..." That is gentleman. And "Now use that thing, go on taking our sinful reaction. We will go on with our own business."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not loving at all. That is taking advantage.
Prabhupāda: That is cheating.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but it's confirmed, anyway. Yeah, that's what that Rajneesh says. They asked him, "Why are you with so many women?" He said, "This is the proof, that I am able to be with all these women but not be disturbed." But that doesn't really answer why he's with them. Our point is: "Why are you with them? Never mind whether you're disturbed or... Why are you with them? What benefit are you getting? They are not God. So why are you spending so much time with them?"
Prabhupāda: That is their way of sādhana.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone admits that this is luxurious, fifth floor of...
Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) ...the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked... They have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee and the ḍāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things.
Prabhupāda: No bona fide person will say that "I am God." As soon as one says that "I am God," he's a rascal immediately. God is not so cheap. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said. He said, "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of servant of God." Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). Hundred times down. And that is real identification. And as soon as a person says, "I am God," then he's a madman. He's part of God. That is all right. But not the Supreme God.
Indian man (4): Can we find the one in ourself? Can we find the one in the basis of ourself?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian man (4): The one in the basis of ourself?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Can we find the one in ourselves?
Prabhupāda: It is our fault we won't take. A man has fallen in the blind well, and he's crying, "Save me! Save me!" and when somebody comes and gives him a rope—"You catch it. I shall lift you"—but he'll not touch it. Then who can save him? The rope is there, the man is there, and he is crying, but when we request that "You take it," he won't take. Aiye. So how he can be saved? And Kṛṣṇa said, mad-āśrayaḥ. But he'll not take mad-āśrayaḥ. He'll take āśraya of something else. This is the position. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha. People are harassed to understand God, whether there is God or not God, who is God. When I first went to America, the theory was going that "God is dead." And what was the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a newspaper...
Prabhupāda: Paper... Yes?
Prabhupāda: It is plain fact. God is one. Why God should be Muhammadan, Christian, Hindu? That is not God. God is God. Gold is gold. This example I give always. Because a piece of gold is coming from some Muhammadan gentleman, does it mean it is Muhammadan gold? It is gold. It may come from any source, but one must know that it is gold, not imitation. That is wanted. If it is imitation, then it is Muhammadan gold, Hindu gold. And if it is real gold, it is neither Muhammadan nor Hindu. (end)
Prabhupāda: Everything is spirit. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Therefore I say there is no matter. Only matter means when the spirit is not discovered. When people are rascals, then there is matter. When people are intelligent, there is no matter. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Therefore Māyāvādī philosophy, that "You are thinking you are not God," that is māyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a kīrtana party now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: This is kīrtana, going on. You do not understand what is kīrtana. Any topics on Kṛṣṇa, that is kīrtana. Abhavad vaiyāsakī kīrtane. Vaiyāsakī, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he became perfect by kīrtana. What kind of kīrtana did he do? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāgavata discussion.
| Page Title: | Not God (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 31 of Oct, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=128, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 128 |