Prabhupāda: Nobody likes old age, nobody likes death, nobody likes to die, nobody likes to take birth again, enter into the womb of mother and live there ten months. You are tight packed. Nobody likes. But what is the solution? Is there any solution by the scientist? No scientist can say, "Well, all right, we shall stop death. We shall stop disease." They can manufacture nice medicine to counteract disease, but they cannot manufacture anything which will stop disease. You can fight against death very nicely, but you cannot stop death. These are the problems. But there is no education in the modern civilization how to stop death, how to stop disease, how to stop old age, how to stop birth, how to attain eternal life, how to attain blissful life. They have no education.
Medicine (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Expressions researched:
"medicament"
|"medication"
|"medicinal"
|"medicinally"
|"medicine"
|"medicine's"
|"medicines"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śivānanda(?): When do we become attracted? When do we begin to become attracted?
Prabhupāda: Forget that. You are attracted. That you take account of. When you become diseased, that is useless. You are diseased. Take medicine. There is no necessity of asking when you became diseased. You are diseased. Take medicine. That's all. What is the use of tracing the history? Everything has his history, that's all right. But my immediate necessity is that "I am diseased. I want to be cured. Give me some medicine." But there is history. The history is this. Just like disease. You have fallen victim of disease. That means you have given chance to the infection. That's all.
Prabhupāda: So you should be careful from being infected. There is no use tracing out the history when you become infected. You should not be infected. That should be your business. And as you are now infected, you try to avoid the causes of infection and take the medicine; you become cured. Some prasādam? So Annapurna you have got some news?
Annapurna: I got a letter from my father.
Prabhupāda: So is that all right?
Annapurna: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No. This is not possible. Because brahmacārīs, they are young men, and they are young girls. Naturally, there is dis-turbance to the mind. Yes. It is just like putting butter pot on fire. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Nanv agni, pramadāgni ghṛta-kumbha-pāyaḥ pumān. Just like fire. (chuckles) Fire is a woman, and man is just like butterpot. It is said. Therefore they should not keep together. (laughs) Just like there are some labels in medicine and some..., "Keep away from fire." Huh? (chuckles) "Keep away from fire." So brahmacārīnī and brahmacārī is not a very good combination. But married couple and some brahmacārīs, that is nice. So this girl is married, but she is separated.
Prabhupāda: No. It's a big building, big store. And big signboard. (break) ...shall approach. (laughing) Somebody said, told, that is for sale?
Janārdana: There is a store for sale. No. I think what they mean, the business is for sale.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...prescription, doctors never says in plain terms. Just like at the end of the prescription, "add water." This is real purpose. They will write "aqua pureata(?)". Nobody will understand. They will understand. This is also some of the medicine. Aqua means water. Similarly, you can say, "prasādam distribution," and they will have to consult dictionary, what it is. And you can say, "Oh, it is not restaurant; it is prasādam." So at least...
Janārdana: No. "Nobody is allowed to smoke in here, and they have to take off their shoes, so how can you say it's a restaurant?"
Prabhupāda: Fever, so what should be the ideal? Fever should decrease. But those who are less intelligent, they think, "Yes, it must increase." (chuckles) There is a drama in Bengali that in a house a doctor came to diagnose. There were two patients, the housewife and the maidservant. So doctor said, "The maidservant's fever is 105, so there is some anxiety. I give some medicine. And the, that landlady, she has no fever practically, 99, so there is no anxiety." But the landlady became angry, that "This doctor is useless. I am the landlady. I have got 99, and my maidservant 105. And maidservant should have 98. I should have 110!" (laughter) This is the mentality. The modern civilization is trying to increase the degree of fever to 110 degrees.
Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Why do they not take consideration that "We are making so much improvement, what improvement we have done about these four things?" They have no. And still they're very much proud, advanced in education, science. But the four primary miserable conditions, they remain as they are. You see? There may be advancement in medical science, but there is no medicine which can claim "No more disease, come on." Is there any medicine? So what is that advancement? Rather, disease are increasing in different forms. They have invented nuclear weapon. What is that? To kill. But have you invented something so that no more men will die? That is credit. Man is dying every moment, so you have invented something to accelerate that death. That's all. Is that very, very good credit? So there is no solution of death.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The psychology is that your people, all the western people, especially youngsters, they are hankering after something, you see? But the difficulty is... Just like me. If somebody comes, "Swamiji, initiate me." I immediately say that "You have to follow these four principles," and he goes away. And this Maharishi, he did not put any restriction, you see? Just like a physician, if he says that "You can do whatever you like. You simply take my medicine, you'll be cured." That physician will be very much liked. You see?
Prabhupāda: No. I'm spreading as missionary since nineteen hundred..., practically since '59.
Journalist: '59, I see. What did you do from the time...
Prabhupāda: I was a householder. I was doing business in medicine. Formerly, I was manager in a big chemical firm. But I was cultivating this knowledge although I was householder. I was publishing this Back to Godhead...
Journalist: So you were publishing that...
Prabhupāda: In India.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. Just like in drug shop they sell all medicine for disease, curing disease. But still, you have to take doctor's prescription to take a particular type of medicine. They will not supply you. If you go to a drug shop and you say, "I am diseased. You give me any medicine," that is not... He'll ask you, "Where is your prescription?" So similarly, in this age, in Kali-yuga age, this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is recommended in the śāstras, and great stalwart—we consider Him the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He preached this. Therefore our principle is everyone should follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We should follow the footprints of great authorities.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God.
Devotee (6): Except he would take liver for his health.
Prabhupāda: Liver?
Devotee (6): Yes. He used to take some liver periodically for his health.
Prabhupāda: Medicine. There are many liver extract preparations.
Devotee (6): No, not liver extract. Maybe. I don't know exactly. But I know he used to take liver. Not cod liver oil or anything.
Prabhupāda: No, liver extract preparations there are many medicines. For anemic patient liver extract is recommended.
Devotee (6): That's all right for us to take?
Prabhupāda: Their proposal is "Death is sure today or tomorrow, so why shall I change my principles? Death will take place even if I live for ten years more, and what is the benefit? Why shall I change my principles? It is not that by taking that medicine or liver extract I shall be amara, immortal." That is not possible. If somebody gives some medicine that one can make himself immortal, that is another thing. Nobody is going to be immortal. Why he should be afraid of death? Death will take place. "As sure as death." So today, or tomorrow, or hundred years after. So if one moment is utilized for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that makes life successful. Why shall I live for hundred years, waste my time? One moment is sufficient for living.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They cannot serve. All these welfare activities of the world, what they are serving? That I explained this morning. They are trying to give help to the poor, but the number of poor is increasing. They are trying to give medicine or relief to the suffering patients. The patients are increasing. Hospitals are increasing. But if our number of temples, Kṛṣṇa temples is increase, that is something sound. But they are increasing hospitals. What do you think? If we increase number of hospitals, does it mean that we are making progress? But they think that they are making progress. Just like in your country there is welfare department? The expenditure increasing.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...my Guru Mahārāja was in his last days, these rascal doctors injected... Our, this Kuñjabihārī, Tīrtha Mahārāja brought so many big, big doctors. And he protested, "Why are you giving me injection?" He protested. He personally said, "Why are you giving me injection?" And if you bring a doctor, the rascals will not stop. "Oh, that is our treatment. We must try our best." They will plead like that. "To give more trouble to the patient, that is our business." Inventing new medicines means inventing new means of giving trouble. That's all. As soon as you ask them whether by injection the life is guaranteed, they will say, "No. There is no guarantee. Let us try, make experiment." Yes. In hospital, as soon as you get (microphone moving)... Whatever nonsense knowledge they have got, they make experiment, at the risk of other's life.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes they do business, simply water they inject. Yes. Simply water and take fee. They know there is no necessity of medicine; still, they will inject some water, distilled water, and take the fees. I have seen the doctors and some, I mean to say, ordinary man, illiterate. "What kind of treatment you want? Injection or medicine?" So naturally, he will say, "The best one. I want to..." "Then you have to take injection."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or both. You might get both.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen, they have spoken like that. Because the patient will think, "Oh, I take injection, I'll be very quickly cured." He will canvass like that. Because if he gives a bottle of medicine, that will not be very costly. But injection in his hand, he'll (have) at least five rupees, that much. So he'll canvass like that, "What kind of treatment you want, injection or ordinary medicine." So he'll say, "Sir, best medicine I want." "Then you take injection." That's all. It is a fact that the whole human civilization is a society of cheaters and cheated. That's all. Any field. mayaiva vyavaharite. The whole world in this Kali-yuga: mayaiva vyavaharite. Vyavaharite means ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. Ordinarily, there will be cheating. Daily affairs. Not to speak of very great things. Ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, mayaiva vyavahari. The sooner you get out of this scene is better. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you live, you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa's glories, and that's all. Otherwise, you should know that this is a dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). In every step there is danger.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It is the stool of an animal. Now, the Vedic statement there is: "As soon as you touch the stool of any animal, you are impure. You have to purify yourself by taking bath." Even in your own stool... According to Hindu system, if you go to evacuate, after coming you have to take bath.
Prof. Kotovsky: This is quite intact with modern medicine knowledge...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: ...that you must clean yourself.
Prabhupāda: Now...
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, that's right.
Prabhupāda: Because we are... Any orthodox Hindu may come, but we have got our weapons, Vedic evidences. So nobody has come. But even Christian priest... Even Christian priests in America, they love me. They say that "These boys..., our boys... They are Americans. They are Christians. They are Jews. And these boys are so much after God, and we could not deliver them?" They're admitting. Their fathers, their parents, come to me. They also flatly offer their obeisances and say, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that you have come. You are teaching God consciousness." So on the contrary, I have got reception from other countries. And India also, as you inquired of India, all other sects, they're admitting that before me many hundreds of swamis went there, but they could not convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness a single person. They are admiring that. And so far I am concerned, I don't take any credit, but I am confident that because I am presenting the Vedic knowledge as it is, without any adulteration, it is being effective. That is my contribution. Just like if you have got a right medicine and if you administer to a patient, you must be sure that he'll cure.
Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād guṇā (SB 5.18.12). If one is Godless, he cannot have any good qualities.
Revatīnandana: Supposing somebody has got smallpox. Smallpox means sores appear on the body and very high fever also. So one doctor who's less intelligent says, "He's got a fever because he has sores." So he puts medicine on the sores. Sores go away and the man dies. Another doctor says, "He's got sores and a fever. This means he has got smallpox." So he gives him some medicine to cure the disease, and then the sores automatically go away. The root cause of all... There are so many troubles in the world. The root cause is Godlessness. People are not God conscious. If that is there, it will automatically put everything in the right perspective and everybody will be able to live harmoniously and peacefully because they will be satisfied and happy in themselves. Then they can live together peacefully and happily. Otherwise, it's all artificial attempts, and the patient will die when you just treat the symptoms. That's happening. For hundreds of years there's been wars and things. There have also been peace movements. Have the peace movements stopped the wars? It hasn't happened. Because they... With one side they're trying to stop the sickness, on the other side they're fanning the sickness, they're stimulating, like in materialistic activities. There's got to be a basic change of heart. Then things can change in detail.
Guest (2): But you will not comment on the details themselves.
Revatīnandana: Sometimes, if it has relevance for preaching work.
Dr. Weir: That merely means, you might say, if you're going to be very thorough and precise, that the, it could be explained in greater detail, but it's easier to do it with a master. But you can go to a foreign language by reading a book, although it's much easier if you're...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here is the medicine, diabetic. So I have accepted this medicine through a bona fide doctor. Although it is meant for diabetes, I have not accepted this medicine, neither it is advised that this medicine should be accepted by a bona fide physician. So I cannot see properly whether it is good for me. But when the physician, qualified physician, says, "Yes, it is bona fide. You can use it in this way." That is right.
Mensa Member: Coming back to your previous point, if he made a mistake and it's the wrong medicine, would you say he cheated you? Isn't that the point you were getting at?
Dr. Weir: This is what worried me.
Śyāmasundara: Yes, because if he purports to be a physician...
Mensa Member: I think he is a physician, and he makes a mistake, a healthy, genuine mistake.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is coming down from Kṛṣṇa through the chain of disciplic succession. So if it is actually given in the exact definition, that process, it is effective. And it is actually being experienced that it is effective.
Śyāmasundara: Just like this medicine...
Dr. Weir: Which may not, unfortunately... This is the danger of analogy. This medicine may work in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred and the hundredth one could kill the poor chap. Now you can't say that the physician was cheating in prescribing for the hundredth chap because he just didn't know.
Mensa Member: (indistinct) on the other hand the other medicine might have worked.
Dr. Weir: Hmmm.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Eyes, because it is diseased, you don't pluck out. This is nonsense. Cure the eyes of the disease, then you will see things right. The Māyāvādī philosophy is pluck out the eyes. Buddha philosophy is make it zero. That is also same thing, plucking out. Our philosophy is "No. Cure it." That is the difference. It is very simple. Which one is better? Just like a man is suffering from disease, fever, and doctor gives him medicine. He dies. Then the patient's guardian says, "Sir, he is dead now. You have given some medicine, he is dead." "That's all right, fever is gone. Fever is gone. Never mind he is dead." (laughter) These rascal philosophy statement is like that. Make zero. Make imperson. Then the difficulties of personality... Because they have got very bad experience of personality here.
Bob: I'd like to ask you just something I talked with devotees about, just medicine. I went to go, I walked to the river with some devotees today. I have a cold, so I said I shouldn't go in the water. Some felt I should because it is the Ganges, and some said I shouldn't because I have a cold. And we were talking, and I don't understand. Some... Devotees, do we get sick because of our bad actions in the past?
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Bob: But when one is...
Prabhupāda: Any kind of distress we suffer, it is due to our impious activities in the past.
Prabhupāda: When you go to inquire something from a person, you must fully surrender there, or you must find out a person where you can fully surrender. Otherwise, don't put any questions. Your waste of time, his waste of time. Because he will not accept. Suppose if you go to a physician, you are diseased, and the physician says, "All right, I shall give you medicine." And if you say, "Yes, I shall accept the medicine if I like it," then why do you go to that physician? What is the meaning? The physician, one physician doctor friend, long..., forty years ago, he prescribed one of my patent medicines. And the patient little protested because it is Indian-made. He was Eurasian. So as soon as he questioned, "What is this medicine, Indian-made?" "Yes, it is Indian-made. If you have no such faith, don't come to me." He flatly said, "Don't come to me." That should be the position of the physician or ācārya. If you go there, you should accept whatever he says. If you are in doubt, then don't go there. That is the position. It is freedom. It is not that you have to accept some ācārya particular by canvassing. No, you should be inspired that "Yes, here I can surrender, here I can gain something." Then surrender. In the spiritual science, there is no bluffing. Everything must be very clear-cut. Otherwise it will be not very satisfactory. (break) Hear this sound, ca-caw caw. (laughter) Because nobody takes this rooster.
Prabhupāda: So everything nice. Although in my household life I was doing some business in connection. I had to see Jawaharlal Nehru. So when he was common man, I went to his house. I saw it is completely Europeanized, although he is in khādi. So his father, he hated Indian medicine. You see? Motilal Nehru. A doctor, his family physician, he told me. I was doing medicine business. So I introduced one preparation, pulti(?). That was in a clay pot, anti-floristan(?) So doctor said personally, "If I prescribe your pul, jagal-pulti(?), that Motilal Nehru says, 'Doctor, in case of medicine, please do not prescribe Indian.' " You see? So this is our mentality. We have got all foreign mentality, but still, we are claiming that we have become independent. Not indepen... We are culturally conquered by the materialistic advancement of foreign countries. We have lost our own culture. This is our position.
Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty? But if you go to a person who does not know God, that is your fault. If you go to a physician who is not actually physician, a storekeeper, then that is your fault. You must have the intelligence who is a physician. That much intelligence you have got. You see a signboard, Dr. such and such M.D., medical practicer. Now you go there and you see there are patients waiting for him, for his treatment, he's giving medicine and they are being cured. Then what is the difficulty to find out a physician? There is no difficulty. So if one is serious to be cured of the disease he must go to a physician. If he does not go to the physician, how he can be cured? Just like you have learned this guitar playing. Do you learn it alone or learn it from somebody?
Prabhupāda: So we are making propaganda that "Serve God, then you will be happy." We know why he's suffering. The same example: The finger in diseased condition cannot serve me. It has to be treated when there is some pain. Suppose this, the nail, I apply some medicine, cure it so that it can serve me. So the whole world is suffering because he's not fit to serve God. So if he becomes fit to serve God, then all the suffering will be gone. The same example again: When the finger is fit to serve, that means it has no disease. And so long it is diseased, there is pain, it cannot serve.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Ian Polsen: ...who consider...
Prabhupāda: That is, that is temporary. Suppose a scientist has discovered this nice lamp. So I give him credit, but I can do without this lamp. It is not very necessary. (laughter)
Indian: The modern science is medicine.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Indian: Medical science.
Devotee: In India the doctors, simply by feeling your pulse they know everything that's wrong with you.
Prabhupāda: No. Even that. No physician can stop disease. He can suggest, "This is very nice medicine," but my problem is, "Why shall I become diseased?" That is my problem.
Ian Polsen: They only treat the symptoms, not the cause.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Well, you can give me some medicine, and for the time being I am cured, then again I fall diseased. You cannot stop disease. Suppose you have got a very nice coat. That's all right. But one who has got not so nice coat, so what is the difference?
Devotee: Coat.
Prabhupāda: Coat, yes. So this so-called scientific improvement, nice medicine, nice medicine or not nice medicine, what is the difference? I fall..., I become diseased. You cannot stop disease. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). You may think that "I have overcome so many distresses," but real distress is birth, death, old age and disease. What you have done for that?
Indian: That's the hardest (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Just like your British Empire. You are British?
John Nordheimer: Many people have tried to change the world, but we see that they have failed. Many people have tried to see God, but they do not succeed.
Prabhupāda: That is because their purpose is not strong. That is due to māyā, forgetfulness. Just like darkness and light; if your light is strong, there is no darkness. But if you have no light, or if your light is not very strong, there is darkness. This is the principle: If you want to drive away darkness, you must bring light. That is the only medicine. You don't have to make a separate endeavor to drive away darkness. As soon as you bring light, darkness will go. The motto of our magazine Back To Godhead is: "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." This is also the Vedic
Prabhupāda: That is to Vivekananda, not to others.
Guest (2): Was he not realized?
Prabhupāda: That is another question. Don't bring controversial. If you have got Kṛṣṇa, what is the use of Ramakrishna? When you have got Kṛṣṇa original, why should you go to Ramakrishna? A shopkeeper says, "This is the same medicine, sir, but it is very cheap." But a real customer says, "No, I want the original. I don't want this imitation. Give me the original." Accepting Ramakrishna as incarnation, so why shall I go to incarnation when I have got Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (2): Like you said, guru you know. We go through...
Prabhupāda: There is paramparā. So there is symptoms of guru not that everyone becomes guru. These are controversial points. We don't want this. Why don't you give the ladies first, these ladies? (Hindi) Yes. I am old man. Old men, children, ladies, they must be first supplied. That's...
Prabhupāda: Oh. So give him sugar candy water. Bring in the morning. You know sugar candy? The sugar candy... Soak sugar candy at night in a glass, and the first business in the morning you should take that glass of water, sugar candy.
Śāradīyā: He is doing all that now.
Prabhupāda: Ah. And he should not take at all ghee. No fatty preparation. And if it is possible, secure papaya, raw papaya, green, and boil it in the... These are the medicine for jaundice. He is inside this room? He has come back?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So, so you have come to Vṛndāvana, and just go on with bhajana, Rūpa Gosvāmī's place, and we are trying to construct a temple.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: 'Cause from experience they know that it is not going to grow.
Prabhupāda: That means nonsense, that there is something else. Because the same tree, now it is growing, watering, but when it will be dead, you pour water... The medicine is the same. Why it is not doing now, and why it was doing formerly? Then what is the thing that is lacking in it?
Brahmānanda: Similarly, if there's a dead body and they just add some chemicals, that doesn't necessarily mean it will come alive again.
Prabhupāda: A devotee can find out. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Unless one is highly enlightened, one cannot find out these defects, contradiction. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. We have got simple formulas in the śāstras. Simply on the basis of those formulas... Whole Vedic literature is like that. Just like Āyurveda, Āyurveda or astrology. Everything is like that. Āyurveda, the medicine. They have to learn only the beating of the pulse. If one becomes expert in which way the pulse beating is going on... They have got example. Just like some birds jump over like this. Some bird goes like this. So they have got example how the pulse is beating, jumping or easily going. So the symptoms, if one can study, he becomes physician, first-class. Immediately. Because as soon as he can study the pulse, how it is beating, in which way... That is, that requires little experience. Then immediately the formula is that if the pulse is beating in this way, then these symptoms will be there. And he will ask the patient...
Brahmānanda: To confirm the symptoms.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Confirm the symptoms. If he says: "Yes," then immediately diagnosis is there. And as soon as diagnosis is there, the medicine is there. Simple method. Similarly, astrologers, they will see the constellation of the stars, and then the formula is there. "If this star is now with this star, if that planet is with that planet, then this is the result." So this Āyurvedic astrologer and physician requires little clear brain. Otherwise, very nice. The research work is already there. Just like we are. What is our research? Kṛṣṇa says: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). "There is another nature." We believe it. We have not gone to another nature.
Prabhupāda: The child is sent to school just for teaching him how to think correctly. Otherwise, what is the use of sending him to school? He can think at home. Why they are sent to school? To learn how to think. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) This is thinking, when you question that: "I want to become happy. Why I am not happy?" This is thinking. Everyone wants to become happy, but nature's process is to obstruct his happiness. So one should think: "Why this is position? I want to live. Why, by laws of nature, I am put to death? I must die? This is against my wish, against my desire." This is thinking. So how to get out of it? This is real thinking. I don't want something, but something is forced upon me, and why it is so? When this "Why?" question will come to me, that is real thinking. Where is that thinking? These rascals, where is that thinking? How to check death, how to check disease, how to check old age. Where is that thinking? Where is that scientist? Who is making research how to stop death, who is making research how to stop disease? You can manufacture medicine for the disease, but you cannot check happening of disease. That is not possible. Why it is? That is thinking. I want something, but it is being obstructed by nature. Why it is so? This "Why?" question must have come. Then his thinking is proper. That is Kena-upaniṣad, Kena.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They do not give up hopes.
Prabhupāda: Even hope, there is no hope.
Brahmānanda: Blind hope.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ask any doctor: "Now this patient is suffering. You are giving medicine, you are very expert. Life is guaranteed?" "No, that we cannot do. That we cannot do." "We are trying." Trying, everyone can try. Then what is your scientific knowledge? (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the real knowledge is taken away by ignorance?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The real knowledge...is taken away by ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Suppose he knows the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Neither he can stop cancer, neither a man suffering from cancer, if it is cured, he will live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot check death. The death may be caused, if not cancer, simply by accident you can die. The real scientific research should be how to stop death. That is real scientific. That we are giving. To find out some medicine for some disease, that is not triumph. Real triumph is how to stop disease. That they cannot. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā puts before you the real trouble is this birth, death, old age and disease. That process we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more acceptance of material body. This is real science. (break) ...suffer from cancer. (laughter) They don't suffer from cancer. So they are in better position than the so-called human society. They are creating causes of cancer disease and then making research and taking Nobel Prize. How foolish society it is, this. Why you create the cause of cancer disease? You accept these four principles of life—no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex—there will be no cancer. There will be no cancer. You find out, those who are strictly on this line, they never suffer from cancer or any disease. Now take for example, me. I have come here in this country for the last seven years, 1965, and it is 1973, eight years. How many times I have gone to doctor? That once that heart attack. That is serious; that is another thing. Otherwise generally how many times I have gone to? I don't pay any bill of doctors. So if we live very hygienic life, regulated life, there is no question of cancer or any disease.
Brahmānanda: Their whole idea is that they want to violate the law but not suffer for it. That is the whole basis of their research work.
Prabhupāda: But actually they suffer. Actually they suffer. Now, what is this research work? This is suffering, spending so much hard-earned money. So one of the cause of, I can say, one of the cause of cancer disease is this contraceptive method. You can make research on it. This is very dangerous stipulation, to use contraceptives. So they are, one side, discovering contraceptive medicine, contraceptive chemical; another side researching for cancer disease. And they say also that smoking is also one of the causes, smoking. So why do you not give up smoking? Smoking, illicit sex, contraceptive method.
Brahmānanda: From the meat-eating comes the heart disease.
Prabhupāda: From meat-eating?
Prabhupāda: Helped means you have helped to minimize their duration of life. Formerly man was living hundred years. Now they do not live more than sixty, seventy years. That you have helped certainly. What you have helped? A man is dying ordinarily, and you have created atomic energy. You can kill thousands of men. So you have helped only in dying. But you have not helped in living. That is not possible. Then what you have done? Some childish play? What you have done? You cannot stop death, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop disease, you cannot stop old age. So what you have done? Formerly people used to become old. Now also, they are becoming old. Formerly people used to die. They are dying now also. Formerly the people used to become diseased. They are becoming diseased. More diseased. More medicine. What you have helped? You have not helped anything in the improvement of the order of the world? What is that help?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Activity without knowing the purpose of it, that is struggle for existence. You must know why you are working so hard. What for I shall work? The aim of life is missing. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it. Therefore failure, confusion, hopelessness. All the results of this world, hopelessness. Is it not? What is one... Show one result, that it is very successful, hopeful. Just like, say, moon planet-hopelessness. What is there? They spend so much time and money, but what is this? Hopelessness. They do not know. All scientists are working, all politicians are financing, but result is hopelessness. Is it not? Similarly, everything they are doing, but they are so rascal, they will never admit that "We are failure." Still they will stick, "Yes, we are success... Future, in ten years we shall do it. Never mind." I have seen, one man was condemned to death in Allahabad high-court. So the lawyer was assuring, "Don't be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal. Don't be disappointed." I have seen it. That lawyer was very big lawyer, an Englishman, Mr. Allston. And one man was condemned to death. He killed his servant very mercilessly. And the case was... He was a doctor, medical practitioner. So he was condemned to death. So after the condemnation, when he was coming out of the courtroom, I saw that he was flattering, "Don't be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal." This is going on. He wants to bluff him, but this is the high-court judgement. How there can be appeal? There may be appeal in the Supreme Court, but he is simply bluffing. Just like medical men. They'll repeatedly give you medicine, "All right, let me try this. This pill you try. This pill you try." They will never admit, "This is hopeless." This is going on. Bluffing, simply bluffing. Cheating, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Śyāmasundara: Officially, no, they will not allow.
Prabhupāda: And these currency notes, the price, commodity, has gone so high due to this rascal currency. Because your enemy country, they print counterfeit and they overflood in the market. So how you can check it? You cannot check. I know, during wartime, a Chinese man was coming in Calcutta, and he had a purchasing agent who was my friend. So he would come, and he would give a list of goods, especially rare medicines, and he'll deposit with him bunch of notes, "You spend, purchase, and whatever..." That means all those notes were counterfeit.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation continues for some sentences.) Who is practicing this? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). He cannot be called a brāhmaṇa unless he acts according to his guṇa. If he's acting in differently, he should be... (break) ...utilized by the liberated person, still we can use it, provided we stop this process of animal killing. Then it will be very easier. This medicine... The doors will be... Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Therefore whoever comes to us to become our student, our first proposition is that "You should give up these four principles, illicit sex, animal-eating, gambling and intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee, cigarette." This is our condition. So the more you practice to these four prohibitive regulations, then you realize. Śrotramāno 'bhirāmāt. It will be very pleasing to the ear and to the mind. And unless anything is very pleasing, you cannot continue. Artificially, you can chant for few minutes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (2): Your blessings, Swamiji, will do a lot of good. He's involved in some personal family problems.
Guest (11): Personal family problem. I am now (indistinct)
Guest (2): I told him...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) chanting... Hare Kṛṣṇa nāma... Bhavauṣadhi... Bhavauṣadhi, medicine of all material diseases. This distressed condition of material world is a diseased condition, and this is the remedy. (Hindi for a few sentences)
Guest (7): To eradicate disease, it needs counteraction. the... I...
Prabhupāda: Eh? This is recited from the śāstra, bhavauṣadhi. This is the only disease, uh, only remedy.
Guest (7): Remedy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you haven't got to spend anything to purchase this medicine. Neither there is any loss. Why not try it for some time.
Devotee: Because it's free, that's why they're hesitating. (laughter.)
Guest (1): That's nice.
Guest (11): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) I'm very glad to see you. Whenever few times...
Malcolm: To the real goal. They feel oppressed into supporting the number system because it's...
Śyāmasundara: Due to a larger number of people, is it possible to return all these people to the real goal?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As there is medicine for certain disease, if, in that particular disease, the prescribed medicine is given, then the disease will be cured. Is it not? Medical science, they have discovered medicine for a certain type of disease. So if the diseased man takes that medicine, particular, then he'll be cured. Similarly, if people take what is the actual goal of life by philosophy and logic, then their goal of life will be one. He must agree to take it just like the diseased man must agree to take the medicine. Then he's cured.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of rejecting or accepting to understand the goal of life. The goal of life is meant for everyone. Maybe a family man or without family. It doesn't matter. Just like eating. Eating is for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's a family man or not family man. It is his essential. Similarly, the goal of life is also essential to know for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's family man or not family man. It doesn't matter.
Malcolm: Is the medicine in the seeking?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Malcolm: Is the medicine in the seeking?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some are seeking, but the medicine is there.
Śyāmasundara: Is looking for the medicine part of the medicine?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no necessity of looking for it. The medicine's already there, goal of life. So we have to take information from authorities, what is the goal of life. Just like this child. The child, he knows that "My father is goal of life," or "My mother is goal of life." He may walk all over the room, but he knows that "Ultimately, my father is goal." Similarly our goal of life is the Supreme Father. Now, if this child is taken away from this room, he'll cry. He'll not be able to express that he wants the goal of his life, his father and mother. He'll simply cry, missing.
Prabhupāda: That is it.
Reporter: Right.
Woman: What about meditating?
Prabhupāda: This is the best medicine, meditation.
Woman: What about the other kind?
Prabhupāda: When meditation, meditation, dhyāna, it is very difficult nowadays. You chant to meditate, you think of your own business. That's another thing. So this is forced meditation: "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" Even if you do not want to hear, you will hear. (laughter) And there is chanting and dancing, everyone who doesn't wanted to hear they also hear.
Prabhupāda: You can go on with your industries. You can go on with your university. But side by side, you become competent to know what is God and how to love Him. Then your life is perfect.
Mother: I could mention a lot of names that (are) still very close to God and brilliant men in science... Where would we be without our scientists, without our doctors, medicine? They all have to go to university and get a degree before they...
Prabhupāda: That I say. You get.
Mother: Yes, but we need them.
Prabhupāda: You get.
Prabhupāda: We are not depending on anyone.
Jesuit Priest: Well, what happens when suddenly one of you gets, very ill tomorrow morning?
Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?
Jesuit Priest: What happens if somebody gets very ill tomorrow morning?
Prabhupāda: So we give them medicine.
Mother: You call the doctor.
Jesuit Priest: No, you call the doctor, don't you?
Prabhupāda: So we pay for that.
Jesuit Priest: I know, but you call him, don't you? You want him to be, you want the doctor in existence.
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Yogeśvara: Second Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satām.
Yogeśvara: Verse number seven, Second Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is diseased. So you have to give the medicine and gradually he'll be cured. Just like when I came first, nobody was my devotee. But the medicine was given, little, little, little. And they became. So you cannot immediately expect that everyone will hear your words. Why? What you are? Why shall he respect you? Cure them. What is that? You have got it?
Haṁsadūta: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know. Even big, big professors. I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. He said, "Swamiji, after annihilation of this body, there is nothing."
Guest (2): Well, that has brought this disaster and is causing more and more trouble, I think. More and more in practice of medicine, if we look into the practice of medicine, I think, we are more pressed with the problem of mental illness. I should say in the region of thirty percent of our time is devoted for people suffering from mental anxiety, which we call "anxiety state" and partly depression. I think most of the time, I surmise... Part of the problem is not that they are not well-fed, it is not that they are not well-dressed. Part of the problem is to accept as they are and to think of something which is present, I mean they could believe that there is something beyond this world, and if they can accept that, probably they will be better off and they will accept their present inconveniences more easily and will not be depressed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How they get black market?
Guest: No, because stock being limited. Suppose a medicine is being wanted, a man is willing to give anything for that medicine.
Prabhupāda: So far I have got experience the stock is available if you pay for it.
Guest: Look at last year's drought over there. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest: Greater productions is one of the keys to lower prices.
Prabhupāda: This is one of the businessman's tricks. When there is new harvest they purchase and keep it and they keep the stock.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible.
Hṛdayānanda: They have a whole new department called gerontology to stop death. In one article they had about twenty different methods, and they said all of them, none of them have succeeded yet. But they were very confident.
Yaśomatīnandana: Even for them there is some medicine in the Vedas. If they go to heavenly planets they will be able to live longer. They are so stupid, śūdra class, that they can't.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Yaśomatīnandana: We'll defeat them by giving them prasādam, right, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: To cure their disease, you have to give them prasādam, and give them chance to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is valuable. Just like a man suffering from jaundice, he sees everything yellow, and if you say, "No, it is not yellow. White" "No, I see yellow." What can be done, then the medicine has to be given. He'll never say it is white. He'll say it is yellow, because he is suffering. You have to cure. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness method is curing the disease of jaundice.
Hṛdayānanda: In other words, Prabhupāda, unless there are enough gentlemen to accept saintly persons, we cannot talk to them. (break)
Devotee (2): ...we have to defeat them by prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, we have to show them mercy. It is not a question of defeat. Just like a diseased person is talking nonsense, so doctors takes care, "All right, go on talking nonsense. Take this medicine." (devotees laugh) That is hospitalization.
Yaśomatīnandana: They're already defeated.
Prabhupāda: Yeah, already defeated by nature. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. That is stated, apahṛta-jñāna. Māyā is taking their all knowledge, and because māyā is taking their all knowledge, the preaching is required. (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: So why wouldn't, why couldn't they accept that such simple thing?
Prabhupāda: Because He wanted you to remain a fool. He wanted. Because you are atheist, He wanted that you shall remain ever fool. That is God's business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). These atheistic class, they remain always fools. Kṛṣṇa gives him birth in such a family, in such a country, in such a posi..., that he remains fools. He remains always fool. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, it's like the barber giving opinion on the science of medicine. It's like barber giving opinion on the science of medicine. Because the materialistic person, they claim to be expert of material science, and still, they want to give opinion on the spiritual science.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they are not even expert of material science. They are expert in bluffing others things with jugglery of words. That's it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they will say that that was only possible...,
Prabhupāda: He will say... They may say, but we are putting some fact. They may say all nonsense. We are not going to accept that.
Karandhara: Some of them say, "Well we've improved on nature. By making things like plastics and medicines, we've improved nature."
Prabhupāda: All right. Very improvement. People were eating in silver plates, golden plates, and you have improved by plastic plates. (laughter) This rascaldom can be understood by another rascal. We are not going to do.
Hṛdayānanda: The plastic is a great problem because they can't get rid of it. Plastic has become a great problem because there is no way to dispose of it. So it just piles up and piles up, and they can't get rid of it.
Prabhupāda: Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, that is already spoken. Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā; at the same time, He says,
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
"Out of many million of persons are trying to be perfect, and out of many millions of perfect, one can hardly understand Me." Then why He is speaking Bhagavad-gītā? Actually the formula is impossible. Nobody is trying for becoming perfect, and there is no perfect; then who will understand? And still, He is speaking. Still Caitanya Mahāprabhu is coming. So our endeavor should be there. Our endeavor should be. If one man can take it up, then there will be immense good for the human so... Therefore I say this is the only humanitarian work. This is the only humanitarian... All others, bogus. They cannot become success. They are opening hospitals, but there are many millions of persons there without any hos..., and even if you give good medicine, good hospital, is that guarantee?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is calculation, calculation. This astrologer, this astrologer was a very big astrologer and when I was in service, Dr. Bose's laboratory, so Dr. Bose was treating one patient. He was vomiting blood. So he was treating as tuberculosis. Then he could not cure him after giving all medicine. Then he asked the astrologer, this astrologer who made my horoscope, "What is the matter? Panditji, can you tell?" So he calculated. He said, "You are making wrong treatment. He has got some sore in the throat. It is not heart." And he treated, he was cured.
Prabhupāda: So they learn very quickly. Indian brāhmaṇas, they learned Jyotir-veda, Āyur-veda, very quickly. Because brāhmaṇas they are meant to go to every house to inform the date, the everything. So generally people are inquisitive about the health. So they ask, "Now I am feeling like this." So they give medicine. And they give some astrological hint also. So in this way people gave them some contribution. That is their livelihood. So this... All the systems were made very easy on account of this Vedic injunction. So therefore we take Vedic knowledge as perfect, and we understand everything by Vedic knowledge about God, about His place, about His activities.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prajāpati: They're giving prize to the number one speculator.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. Jugglery of words. That's all. Speculation means jugglery of words. Just like doctors prescribe. They give the medicine, and then water mixed. So they will never say "water" because ordinary people will understand. They'll write "aqua distillata." So ordinary man cannot understand whether it is water or medicine. But that is water. But they'll... So these scientists, they'll manufacture some word which you cannot understand... "Vyāghra mane śārdūla." One student asked the teacher, "What is the meaning of 'vyāghra' ?" He said, "Śārdūla." It is still difficult. You see ? This is going on.
Prajāpati: Most theologians, they write like that, also, Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Karandhara: ...a devotee came and told Prabhupāda that he committed some wrong doing, and he was very, very sorry, and he was crying and very sorry, and you said, "That's all right. That's nice. Now do something about it. Engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. That is the duty of the physician. If somebody comes, patient: "Sir, I am suffering like this." "All right, don't be sorry. Sit down. I will give you medicine." (break)
Prajāpati: ...what these rascal philosophers do, psychologists and scientists, they say the things that are very sinful actually, that Kṛṣṇa says and the Bible and all of scriptures say are sinful, they say, "That's all right. You may do those things." Not only do they deny God's existence, but they say that which is sinful is actually good for you: "Yes. You must have intoxication, take illicit sex life," like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...gives the medicine. (break)
Prajāpati: Today the only time they use the word God is when they are swearing and they are calling on God to damn someone else. Why is such language there? Why are they doing like that?
Prabhupāda: No. Why ordinary men? Even those who are going to church, they are also praying God, "God, give us our daily bread." These rascals, they have made God as agent for their sense gratification. This is their philosophy. Even from the priest down to the rogues, they have made God as the agent of their sense gratification. That is materialism." God must supply whatever I want. That is God. Otherwise I don't care for God." This is their philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. God's name. God's... In every respect, these materialists, they want to use God for their sense gratification. That is the prime fact. Our philosophy is that "God is not agent for your sense gratification, but you are agent for God's satisfaction." That is our philosophy, just the opposite. Even so-called religionists, they also take God as the agent of their sense gratification. They go to church to order God, "Supply our bread." Actually, He is doing. God is supplying bread. But they go for ordering, that "Give us our..." The rascal does not know, God is already supplying. Why should we go to church for ordering Him to supply bread? He is already supplying, even to the cats and dogs. They do not now what is the purpose of going to the church. That is going on. That is the disease, material disease. "I want to satisfy my senses, and anyone who will help me in my sense gratification, I shall worship him. If he does not, then I shall not." Everywhere. This Nixon became president because he promised that "I shall satisfy your senses." Now he is not doing so, so "Get out." This is the whole formula, material world." You satisfy my senses, you are my friend. And as soon as stop, then you are not my friend." That's it. (break) ...are considered the most authoritative because they give sense gratification. "You are sick. Now you are unable to gratify your senses. I give you some medicine so you become strong and go on your sense gratification." Therefore doctor is very good man.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Jayahari: Prabhupāda, this morning you talked about astrology in your lecture. Is this accepted in the Vedic scripture and by the gurus?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Astrology means... That is also Vedic. Jyotir-veda. Jyotir-veda. That is also part of the Vedas. The brāhmaṇas, they learn these three things: astrology and medicine. These two things. A brāhmaṇa is supposed to go to every householder's place, and he will inform, "Today is such and such tithi. The such and such thing should be done." And if required, if somebody inquires about, "Now I am going to that place. What will happen? Just find out the auspicious moment," so they will give him. Still it is current. It may be wrongly done or rightly, but the system is still there. Astrologer. The king should be always accompanied by a first-class astrologer. (break) ...there is a whole street, both sides simply astrology. (break) ...good astrologers.
Jayahari: Astrology is very popular in the western world. (break)
Prabhupāda: Where is our scientist?
| Page Title: | Medicine (Conversations 1968 - 1973) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, JayaNitaiGaura |
| Created: | 18 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=67, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 67 |