Leaders (Conversations, 1976)

Expressions researched:
"leader" |"leader's" |"leaders"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Indian man: Because they want...

Prabhupāda: "They" not. What I am talking with you. They are all foolish. We call them mūḍhas, duṣkṛtino mūḍhas. So their demand is not legitimate. If a mūḍha... If your small child says, "Father, give me a bidi, cigarette," would you give him? Because he is mūḍha. So the father is intelligent—"No." So similarly, the mūḍhas may demand that "Open this hospital." But we are not going to do that. We know.... Of course, hospital required so far the body is concerned, but there are so many hospitals. The real hospital which is not existing, we are starting. That is our mission, which is not possible for the so-called leaders and politicians. Try to clear this.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: That he does not know. From Manu, mānava has come, just like from sādhu, sādhava has come. They do not know even grammar. These leaders, they do not know even grammar. (break) ...chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Hariśauri: Anything apart from the Vedas is not really knowledge.

Prabhupāda: No. May be some fragmental knowledge, but if one wants full knowledge in life, then he must read Bhāgavatam. Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary ABCD, and then let him read Bhāgavatam. They have been taught like that. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. They are passing as great leader for giving men wrong direction and spoil the life. He cannot save himself and he can spoil himself very nicely.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming—I have failed, now I shall become God. Same sense grati.... They cannot understand that this is also sense gratification. "I am not no more satisfied by becoming a little minister and king and.... No. I shall become God.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of king?

Prabhupāda: That is called in Bengali, jaya mane apna morol.(?) Morol means the leader of the society, of the village. Here there are morol. So in the village nobody cares for him, and he declares that "I am morol."

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: Tagore (?) is so nice that your divine grace was presenting the perfect authority, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And one who follows His instruction, he also perfect. That we are pushing (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything will be all right. Everyone is fallen, I asked this question to Kotofsky. "Sir, you have got a leader, we have got a leader, so where is the difference?" And then I said, "Only you have got a fool leader, we have got intelligent leader." Otherwise you cannot avoid leadership, authority. That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They all want to become leaders.

Prabhupāda: So what kind of leader? If you cannot lead others, what kind of leader?

Jayapatākā: That's why a brahmacārī should...

Prabhupāda: If you mislead them, if you mislead them, then what is the use of taking leadership?

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just see. What he is? He's standing naked and taking photograph. His wife and he, standing naked. I have seen. And that picture is there in his sitting room, fireplace. That is the picture. (laughs) I went to see him. I was his guest. So one day I was... I saw there that big picture on the fireplace. And here is a public... Newspapermen go to him to take his opinion. "What is your opinion?" Just see. What is his value? Nobody... He is public leader because he has got some money. Money is the criterion. Therefore people are accumulating money some way or other. He knows that "If I got money, then I'll have all influence over the society."

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is seeing that, how everyone is ready to serve. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa-bhakta also sees how everyone is eager to serve Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...engage them rightly, that is leadership. Yes. Otherwise andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). As a blind leader is leading other blind men, this whole world is going on like that. They do not know how to properly lead the people. Misleaders. (break) ...grains, cows, all they should be very properly taken care of and the products offered to Kṛṣṇa. Everyone should be engaged as Kṛṣṇa's servant.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Yaśodānandana: I think maybe that along with that commentary from the professor from the University of Mexico to send to Mrs. Indira Gandhi, if all of these quotations are sent, she will understand that you are being appreciated by everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, you can send all the quotations, not only one. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...very enlivening, encouraging, very good. And especially from the Western countries. All classes of academic leaders. It is very good.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is by propaganda that "Russians are bad," "Chinese are bad." No. Nowhere the people are bad. Simply the leaders are bad. The men, they are all the same everywhere, everywhere, human nature.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Siddha-svarūpa: If their main leader, Mao Tse Tung.... He's more of that school, but there are.... They call them revisionists. They say they're like the Russians, and that they're just.... They're always attacking them for wanting to copy the West. It's their same attack. They attack the Russians for becoming capitalists. They're puritan. They're trying to have pure communism. They have very great ideals, and the other school wants.... They think that they want to get in on the action of the trade and industrialization. But they are actually about equal in power. It's interesting. Right now, actually, it's very hard to get into China because there's a new feud that has come to the surface. There's top leaders that have been taken through the streets, denounced as being materialists, and they've taken their clothes from their wives' closets with mink coats and fancy clothes...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all.... We shall first of all try to sell our books without any discussion. "As trade..., as trade representative, we have come. See our book." Go to the professors, go to the.... "We have got this support," like that.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Siddha-svarūpa: ...the statement by the leader, they put out this manifesto or something. He said that the boys should not get married until twenty-five years old, and that they should remain celibate and that they...

Prabhupāda: Chinese people?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. And they're very strong on celibacy because he said that the.... If a person loses semen or if they masturbate or if they unnecessarily use their sexual energy, they'll go insane. Their brains will become very weak, and physically they'll become very weak.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is inside our bus, one of our buses. This is the bus. Inside, kīrtana, Deities from that bus. Brahmā dāsa, he is in charge. He is the leader of the bus. They're having kīrtana inside the bus. This is another bus. Ādi-keśava. These are Deities in his bus.

Prabhupāda: Who is this gentleman? Police?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And this is Kavicandra Prabhu. He's the leader of another bus. These are his Deities, and that is his bus and his men.

Revatīnandana: (break) ...is that they are very interested in health, exercise, dancing, like that. They have huge, mass swoopings of...

Prabhupāda: So introduce this dancing as health exercise dancing.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Moonrise.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...ist countries they accept a leader.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do they not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So before they became communist, they had some leader or not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the Czar in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Czar was the leader in Russia.

Jayatīrtha: And Chiang Kai-shek in China.

Prabhupāda: So why they changed their leader?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Madhudviṣa: People were not satisfied with the government. There was a revolution.

Prabhupāda: No, people were not satisfied... The principle, what is the principle? To have better leader. Is it not? So if they get still better leader, why they will not change?

Madhudviṣa: They would say it's not the leader but it's the system.

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The system is done by some leaders. Anything... Just like our, this system we have introduced. I am the leader. Similarly, a leader is changed for betterment of the situation. So if the communists and those who have brain, if they find a better leader for better situation, why they'll not? And they want for revolution also. They are in favor of revolution. Their theory is that periodically there must be revolution. That is their theory.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Every country has a leader.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these... All this ism, Communism, this ism, this ism, beginning from that Greek history, so many changes have been made in Europe, leaders, sometimes Napoleon, sometimes Mussolini, sometimes Hitler. It is going on. So where is the perfect situation? You have changed so many leaders for so many years in the history, but where is your perfect situation?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have one leader, and our situation is perfect, and we are not changing that leader.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is perfection. We have taken Kṛṣṇa as leader. We are not taking any other leader.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Revatīnandana: If you say that your leader is perfect and you do not change your leader, we see that in India... This is where Kṛṣṇa came. He is your leader, but they do not follow Kṛṣṇa any more and India is in trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right thing.

Revatīnandana: But why do they not follow if He is perfect leader?

Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune.

Revatīnandana: They argue like that.

Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune. Just like father says, "Child do this," but he does not do. Father says, "Don't touch fire;" he touches, so he'll suffer.

Madhudviṣa: They can also say that about their leader. They can say that according to Marx, if everyone followed Marx purely, then the Communist system would be running on...

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is the purity?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ultimately, they say there should be no leader. Everything will work automatically.

Prabhupāda: But you have leader, rascal. Why do you say no leader? Immediately take shoes and beat with them.

Mahendra: They say that in the future there will be no leaders.

Prabhupāda: Again beat threes, thrice. But we are not so fool that we are going to believe in your future postdated check. We are not so fool. Present right check.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We don't accept blindly.

Prabhupāda: Immediately payable. Then we accept.

Madhudviṣa: They will accept that there has to be a leader...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must have. They must have.

Madhudviṣa: But the leader should not be a person which is held in esteem for his personality but simply a person who is guiding the system.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Then that is Kṛṣṇa. He is giving this leader. This is a fact.

Trivikrama: And their leader can never be perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Trivikrama: The Communist leader.

Prabhupāda: You can become perfect if you follow a perfect leader. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The trouble is, their system is not perfect. Our system is...

Prabhupāda: How it can be? Because the leader who introduced this system is a rascal, so how the system can be perfect?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like you pointed out yesterday that Communism holds that everyone should have an equal right, but, you pointed out, then why do they limit that simply to human beings?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is imperfect system.

Prabhupāda: Why they become sectarian?

Madhudviṣa: They will say this is the natural development. When a system develops to this size there will be...

Prabhupāda: That you cannot change, natural development. You rascal, why you become leader? I don't require your leadership if everything is going on by nature.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Madhudviṣa: They say that...

Prabhupāda: Why shall I accept a blind leader? If a blind... I am blind, and if a blind man says, "Come on, I shall guide you," why shall I accept that leader?

Madhudviṣa: Their contention is not that, though. Their contention is that Mao Tse Tung, along with being the political leader, is also the spiritual guide of the people.

Prabhupāda: Political, social is not. The leader must be perfect. If the leader is blind, how can I accept such blind leader? I am blind man. What is the use? I am blind; therefore I am asking, "Can you help me to cross the road?" Another blind, "Yes, yes, come on, I shall." Why shall I accept? First of all I shall ask, "You have got eyes?" "No, I am also blind." What is this nonsense?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do they admit their leader to be blind?

Devotee: No. They use their leader's book as Bible.

Prabhupāda: Then why you change? Why you change?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Madhudviṣa: No, that's not to change the system. That's to purify it.

Prabhupāda: That change of the leader...

Madhudviṣa: That's to purge the system.

Revatīnandana: Continuous purification.

Prabhupāda: That's means... Purge out means it is not perfect.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone requires leader, yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is a fact.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they are changing leaders one after another because they think that the present leader will satisfy their present desires more.

Prabhupāda: The leader, perfect leader, is God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānāṁ (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That nitya and cetana, all living entities, we are eternal, and we are conscious. And He is the supreme conscious. Therefore God means Supreme Being. You take His leadership. Then He'll properly guide you. That is our philosophy.

Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, actually, I think it was either Marx or...

Prabhupāda: But the leader says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you protection from all pitfalls." This is. We also accept leader, but the most perfect leader, who can actually give me protection from all dangers. So Śrīdhara, when you go, you take some letters from me. So what happened about Ganguli? (break) ...this nature. Just like a child is born. Immediately requires protection by mother.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What... Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are the qualifications of a perfect leader?

Prabhupāda: No mistake, no illusion, no cheating, no imperfection. Anyone who commits mistake, he's illusioned, he's a cheater and imperfect—he cannot lead. So bring any leader of these rascal groups and test with these four principles; he is misleader.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Trivikrama: They're all servants of their senses.

Madhudviṣa: They will also say that within our movement the so-called leaders also have imperfections.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: They will say, within our movement, that the leaders also have imperfection.

Prabhupāda: No imperfection.

Trivikrama: No imperfection.

Madhudviṣa: They will say, "Yes, we can give you examples."

Prabhupāda: No. No, no. Why? Why you shall accept? They will say. Because therefore they are saying, we shall accept?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's Prabhupāda. Here's Prabhupāda

Trivikrama: The so-called leaders, maybe they are imperfect, but the real leader, He is perfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is test of.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would you define...

Prabhupāda: If you think your leader is mistaken, then you are mistaken. (laughter)

Mahendra: Like a mirror. You see a mistake but it's yourself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: The leader of mistake-therefore immediately gives evidence from śāstra. What is the use of quoting from the śāstra? "Just to prove that I am not mistaken, here is the proof."

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the whole thing is actually nonsense because Marx himself in his old age became senile and died in a crazy condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he must be. He was crazy always. Many, many leaders die like that.

Trivikrama: Every leader.

Madhudviṣa: They will point out that our ācāryas also died. You say that Marx died, so they will say, "Your ācāryas also died."

Prabhupāda: Dying, that... There is difference of dying. But nobody, he died... They did not die a crazy. That is the superexcellence.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A leader means that he's following a system. So what are the criterion of...?

Prabhupāda: That already told. He does not commit any mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that I understand.

Prabhupāda: He is not illusioned, he is not a cheater, and he is perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now you've defined a perfect leader. What is a perfect system? What are the criterion for a perfect system?

Prabhupāda: Perfect system means from which we do not suffer. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everything is hot. (break) ...so...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Prasādam, when it is supplied from the temple, in any condition it is prasādam. So communists should be impressed that "You are trying to establish a perfect society. That is your philosophy. So unless there is perfect leader, how you can establish?" This is the way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we know what the qualities of a perfect leader are. "We don't find that you have any such persons."

Prabhupāda: No, phalena paricīyate, by result.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is serving, because our constitution is to serve. Big, big leaders, they are also serving. Anyone you can see. The sun, he is serving. Exactly in the time it is rising by the order of God. Exactly in time it is setting. So everyone is serving. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya: (CC Adi 5.142) "Only master is God, and everyone is His servant." But the diseased condition is that when we do not serve God, we serve something else, māyā, and that is diseased condition.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (2): When you visited the Soviet Union, Swamiji, did you find the atmosphere worse than it is in Western countries, say? Are the people...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere the people are very good, but the leaders are bad.

Reporter (2): Did you meet any of them? No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I talked with one of the best leaders, Professor Kotovsky. He is the professor of Indology. I talked with him. I have studied. The people are generally very good.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (2): You've given up India as a dead loss, isn't it, in the sense...

Prabhupāda: Dead loss? Dead loss.... But the leaders are dead loss. Misleaders. They have given up their own culture, and they are trying to imitate others.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The spirit is more important than material.

Prabhupāda: No, their teaching is to become some strong atheist, because religion has been exploited by the so-called religious leaders. That is the difficulty. So they have become atheist.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is blind leadership. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. This will never be successful, and it is blind leadership because we do not know what is the aim. If you know the aim of life and if we make program according to that aim, then it will be successful. Blindly everyone is manufacturing his objective, different leaders, different isms. The Communists, they have got different aims. The capitalists, they have got different aims. The socialists, they have got different aims.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Devotee (2): The leaders are so infected. There was an article recently...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). That is already dictated by Bhāgavata. These leaders, rascals who are blind, and they are trying to lead other blind men. All of them are falling in the ditch.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Here is first-class yogi." That will be our preaching. Dhruva Mahārāja is practicing yoga. There are many others. The highest perfection is Rādhārāṇī, that simply crying, "Kṛṣṇa has gone to Mathurā, not coming back." That is the..., the whole day and night crying. Who can perform this yoga? So if you, if possible, draw pictures.... Satchidananda, he is also a leader? He has?

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The anxiety should be purified from material contamination, and it should be only for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect. Here the anxiety with some designation, "I am the father of this family," this is my anxiety, how to maintain them. "I am the leader of this nation." That is my anxiety. So all these anxieties are material, upādhi. I am neither father nor leader. I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I have created artificial anxieties. So therefore I have to become free from this artificial anxiety. And nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa. And when he is pure servant of Kṛṣṇa, he's always anxious how to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is the.... The anxiety is there, and now it is purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170), completely fresh.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Interviewer: Your Grace, have you been to New Zealand before?

Prabhupāda: Twice. When the Deity was installed, I installed personally. Then I think I came last year here.

Interviewer: You're the leader of how many disciples or devotees throughout the world?

Prabhupāda: Personally, I have got not less than ten thousand. But I was deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to make propaganda in the Western countries. So this movement... Of course, I have started in the Western countries, but in India it is very common movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everyone knows.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: A rascal, on account of his false prestige, he is thinking, "Oh, I am independent. I can do whatever I like." Vimūḍhātmā, foolish, rascal. Mūḍha, not. Vimūḍhātmā, "especially the rascal, a special rascal." Ordinary rascal is better than the special rascal. (laughs) So all these scientists, philosophers, and political leaders, they're all special rascal, they are.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: I have no sense even of compassion." Cats and dogs are passing on as religionists. Some hogs and pigs are going on as philosopher. And other animals is going as scientist, Darwin. They're animals only, cats and dogs. They are the leaders of the society. How you can expect any benefit from them? The leaders themselves are cats and dogs, pigs. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). These leaders, they are saṁstutaḥ, they are very much worshiped. By whom? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. By the dogs, by the pigs, by the.... śva-viḍ-varāha..., camel, and by the ass. Because these particular names, I have explained in the Bhāgavata... So suppose one man has become lion, and he's praised by dogs, camels, asses, and pigs. Naturally, they will praise, "Oh, sir, you are the king."

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: The horse has played heroic. The Queen of Jhansi's horse and this, our, what is called, Shivaji's horse, they have played unique part in the history. Sepāikā ghoḍā. It is animal, but because it is the horse of a famous hero, it has played. Similarly, the son of father must be as good as father. If not, to some extent. Yes. So you are the.... Your father is the leader of so many big, big businessmen. You also become leader.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: For Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: For Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you have got the intelligence. I have seen. I have studied you. Now you combine. Both of you, you are intelligent. You turn the whole America Kṛṣṇa conscious. Bas. Then success all over the world. America is the leader of the nations. Now, if the America becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then our movement is perfectly successful. And you have got the potency in America.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Chanting produce plain living, high thinking. The modern leaders, they don't want.

Hari-śauri: We're a threat to the society.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: I wonder if you might have any opinions on some of the leaders of cults and groups in the United States, such as the Divine Light Mission, or the T.M. and so forth. I'm wondering if you have any opinions on Guru Maharaj-ji or Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Prabhupāda: There are different groups. I know that. But I do not go in detail to understand them. But our..., we have got a crucial test. That anyone who is..., does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is put into four different types of categories as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Mahendra: Thirty or forty years also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, one man made a little plaster body of a human being, and he planted it in his back yard in England. And then he dug it up and said, "Oh, look, I've found the oldest man in history!" And all the scientists came and said, "Oh, yes, this is the oldest man in history." And for twenty or thirty years many men got their Ph.D.s by writing about how this plaster was the oldest man in history.

Prabhupāda: Yes, such fools are leaders.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...been a kīrtana leader in his previous lifetime, how could he take so naturally to Sanskrit and chanting like that?

Prabhupāda: This boy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He's just like a Bengali kīrtana leader. He joined the movement when he was only sixteen years old. Very...

Rāmeśvara: Jagannātha dāsa has just come back from Vṛndāvana. I think he's going to help on the books again. That will speed things up. Everything is going slowly through Sanskrit still.

Prabhupāda: (looking at bones?) Chicken?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, some animal, bigger animal.

Rāmeśvara: Ribs? Lamb, sheep.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...kill. Simply kill. Paśu-ghna. As soon as you become animal killer, Kṛṣṇa consciousness finished. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, vinā paśu-ghnāt. Except the persons who are killers of animals, everyone will be interested.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: One day our men will be leaders of government?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Leaders means as soon as you make the public in your favor, you are leader.

Rāmeśvara: But they'll actually manage the government?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. The Kurukṣetra battle was for this purpose. The Pāṇḍavas should be on the throne, not the Duryodhana. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All round, not that we're simply chanting. We're fighting also.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Will there be one spiritual leader, though?

Prabhupāda: No, I am training GBC, eighteen all over the world.

Rāmeśvara: His personal secretaries.

Interviewer: I see.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: But the leaders of the Communists are rich.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhāvallabha: The leaders of the Communists are all rich, and the people don't notice.

Hari-śauri: Andha, blind.

Prabhupāda: Russia, that, what is that, Communist leader?

Devotees: Nikolien? Lenin? Breshnev? Kruschev?

Prabhupāda: Kruschev. Kruschev. He was making money, therefore he was driven out. His son-in-law, his sons were being employed, neopolism, what is called?

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: But the union problem they have in England, that's why the whole country now is in disruption because the labor is always on strike. They did a survey, and they found out that all the major union leaders are Communists.

Prabhupāda: And they're making money.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: How is that, is not obstacle? You are planning something, that "I shall do this..." You may not be very important man, but there are many important men. The leaders of the society, they are planning that "I shall make my nation like this way, my family like this way." Everyone is planning. But where is the guarantee that he'll be able to fulfill the plan? Death may take place any moment. So is it not obstacle?

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Germany is little recouped, but England is finished. Therefore I say India got independence not due to Gandhi. It is due to Hitler. That is my opinion. I have got reason. The Hitler fighting with England made them smashed, so their political power became nil almost, and on this opportunity, Hitler helped Subash Chandra Bose, one of the leaders of India, to organize Indian National Army. This Indian National Army, when attacked, at least made a show of attack from Imphala(?), especially on Calcutta dropped bombs, and the whole Calcutta became vacant.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: And practically we see. She is giving, the mother earth is giving birth to so many varieties of children-8,400,000. Then the next inquiry should be: the mother is there, the children are there, then where is the father? That answer is given by Kṛṣṇa: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am the father." So where is the difficulty to understand the Supreme Lord? But they are so dull-headed that they have no even common sense, and they're passing as philosopher, politician, and scientist, big leader, big rascal. This is going on. This is going on. And big, big rascals, they have taken the leadership of the world, and the world is in chaos, chaotic condition, everyone is unhappy, suffering.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: If there is no culture, simply by money you cannot maintain a standard of civilization. That is not possible. Now the American leaders they are thinking, "Let us have money, then everything..." Of course, by money you are covering all the defects of the social culture. But this will not endure. Day will come and everything will be exposed. Therefore culture required.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: We are much in ignorance about those matters, I understand that, and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Complete ignorance, like animals. So the leaders of the society, if they are serious about advancement of human civilization, they must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness; otherwise, they'll be baffled.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Purport. "People in general always require a leader who can teach the public by practical behavior. A leader cannot teach the public to stop smoking if he himself smokes. Lord Caitanya said that a teacher should behave properly even before he begins teaching. One who teaches in that way is called ācārya, or the ideal teacher. Therefore, a teacher must follow the principles of śāstra, scripture, to reach the common man. The teacher cannot manufacture rules against the principles of revealed scriptures. The revealed scriptures, like Manu-saṁhitā and others, are considered the standard books to be followed by human society. Thus the leader's teaching should be based on the principles of the standard rules as they are practiced by the great teachers. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also affirms that one should follow in the footsteps of great devotees, and that is the way of progress on the path of spiritual realization. The king or the executive head of a state, the father and the schoolteacher are all considered to be natural leaders of the innocent people in general. All such natural leaders have a great responsibility to their dependents; therefore they must be conversant with standard books of moral and spiritual codes."

George Gullen: Very good, very good, I believe all that. Every word. The people need leadership, inspiration that they can follow with their whole heart.

Prabhupāda: There must be practice, that we are teaching. That simply not theoretical, but practical. Here in our institute, we teach all the students practically how to become God conscious. Theoretical knowledge will not help us. There must be practical behavior. They are rising early in the morning, attending maṅgala-ārati, then having class, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, chanting, in this way, twenty-four hours engaged. It is not fifteen minutes recreation. No. Twenty-four hours program.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Thing is that if the leaders of the society, they come to their consciousness, that this way the society cannot be peaceful, the way they are now conducting.... If they have brain.... Just like the other day, the Christian priest. He was speaking of disabled men. You were present? I challenge you: what do you mean by disabled man? If one man has lost his arm, can you supply it? Then he stopped.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your coming. Now my request is that you take up this movement. It is actually a great contribution to the human society. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). Those who are leaders of the society, if they take it, it is easily understood and easily distributed. So there is no question of sectarian thought. It is the necessity of the human society to understand God. The other day in Detroit, two father priests came to see me.

Morning Walk Conversation -- June 20, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: What you have spoken all this nonsense? Mattaḥ kore heṭ. And when there is challenge, mattaḥ kore heṭ. Otherwise, baro baro bagara, baro baro phet, big, big monkey, big, big belly. And when the real question is there, mattaḥ kore het. Ceylon jumping, melancholy. Hanumān jumped over the ocean, so other monkeys, they also become very proud: "I am..., Hanumān is our leader, we can...," "Can you jump over Ceylon?" Mattaḥ het. (break) ...speak all these things, Indian villagers, they will immediately believe. One cobbler.... I think I narrated this story. Nārada Muni was going to Vaikuṇṭha. Did I say that?

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So this is ignorance, this is ignorance. And they are kept, the whole world—the state, the father, the guardian, everyone, the priest. Everyone is ignorant. Dull-headed ignorant. And they are passing on as philosopher, scientist, religious leader. (break) ...hard to bring them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Taking these few years, fifty years or sixty years living here, and dance like dog and finish. There is no life. You die peacefully or (indistinct). And not dying peacefully, they cry. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Indian man (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one thing in the human nature, that he always thinks that he's the chief and around the world everything is running around him, and most probably he always can show off that "I am the leader of everything." Why is it so? In every person.

Prabhupāda: That is the disease, material disease. That is material disease. Everyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa. Nobody wants to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Kartāham iti manyate. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Rascal bewildered by false egotism, he's thinking "I am everything." That is material life. And when by cultivation of knowledge, good association, you come to the conclusion that "I am not everything, Kṛṣṇa is everything; I am His servant," then perfection. Otherwise he's in the māyā-cakra.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary. And our Vivekananda also imitated that. So this, this is the material disease. He is actually servant, but he wants to become master.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jagannātha Suta. This was in Māyāpura. (continues reading) "But in America people are very much afraid of the central government"—this is the reporter—"because they think that wherever there is a strong government there will always be tyranny." Prabhupāda: "If the leaders are properly trained, there cannot be tyranny."

Reporter: "But one of the premises of the American system of government is that if a leader has too much power, he will inevitably become corrupt."

Prabhupāda: "You have to train him in such a way that he cannot become corrupt."

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

eporter: "So if we don't choose our leaders by popular election, how will society be governed?"

Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: now God, to act according to His instruction. But if the leaders themselves do not believe in the supremacy of God, and if they do not know what God wants to do or what He wants us to do, then how can there be good government? The leaders are misled, and they are misleading others. That is the chaotic condition in the world today."

Reporter: "In the United States there has traditionally been the separation of church and state."

Prabhupāda: "I am not talking about the church. Church or no church, that is not the point. The main thing is that the leaders have to accept that there is a supreme controller. How can they deny it? Everything in nature is going on under the Supreme Lord's control. The leaders cannot control nature, so why don't they accept a supreme controller? That is the defect in society. In every respect the leaders are feeling that there must be a supreme controller, and yet they are still denying Him."

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "God. God is perfect. He does that. According to the Vedic version, God is the leader of all living entities. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). We are different from Him because He is all-perfect and we are not. We are very small. We have the qualities of God, but in very small quantity. Therefore we have only a little knowledge, that's all. With a little knowledge you can manufacture a 747 airplane, but you cannot manufacture a mosquito."

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (continues reading) "God has created the mosquito's body, which is also an airplane. That is the difference between God and us. We have knowledge, but it is not as perfect as God's. So the leaders of the government have to consult God then they will rule perfectly." On this side it says "Leaders of government have to consult God, then they will rule perfectly."

Reporter: "Has God also devised the most perfect government?"

Prabhupāda: "Oh, yes. The kṣatriyas ruled the government in Vedic times. When there was a war, the king was the first to fight. Just like your George Washington. He fought when there was a war. But what kind of president is ruling now? When there is a war he sits very securely and telephones orders. He's not fit to be president.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "Although you may be imperfect, because you are carrying out my order, you become perfect. You have accepted me as your leader, and I accept God as my leader. In this way society can be governed perfectly."

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: Kṣamā.

Prabhupāda: Kṣamā. Formerly saintly persons and leaders, they used to excuse. Now that, the sense of excusing, "All right, this man has done something, excuse him," that will decrease. The sense of religiosity, truthfulness, and?

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: All these impersonalists, they always represent themselves as being big Vedantists. They don't know anything.

Prabhupāda: And people, leaders of India, they are thinking, "Where is this Vedantist?" In foreign countries, what is their position?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again spend millions of dollars. And our rascal Indian leaders, they are also. What is that here, she has remarked, "Hare Kṛṣṇa cult."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh yeah, that Indian cultural organization.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years past, nobody could give such a book of knowledge throughout the whole world. The Bhagavad-gītā is studied not only by the Indians and Hindus but by all scholars of the world. Even such persons who think that there is somebody greater than Kṛṣṇa, they also read Bhagavad-gītā and they recite from the Bhagavad-gītā. Even Śaṅkarācārya, the leader of the Māyāvādīs, he says Bhagavad-gītā kiñcid adhītā. Is it not? Does he not say?

Guest (3): Was it not true also Śaṅkarācārya Swamiji who said vande kṛṣṇa jagat-guru?

Prabhupāda: Yes, bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindam...

Guest (3): Vande Kṛṣṇa jagat-guru.

Prabhupāda: So he's the leader of the impersonalists, he accepts kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Sa bhagavān svayam kṛṣṇa. Then what to speak of the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. Rāmānujācārya has given Bhagavad-gītā comments, every line Vedic evidence.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. So we have got many points to understand by argument, but if we take the judgment of Kṛṣṇa, then it is conclusive. And He has His direction in every field of life, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Even our political leaders, they also accept Bhagavad-gītā in guidance. So if you take guidance from Bhagavad-gītā without malinterpretation, then we are benefited. Unfortunately, we interpret our own way, which is favorable to us, and that is not required. Then the authority of the Bhagavad-gītā is gone.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Women also. What is the use of this material husband? Make Kṛṣṇa husband. Kṛṣṇa's prepared to become everything—love Him as husband, love Him as son, love Him, friend. Kṛṣṇa is prepared.

Rūpānuga: I have see in our society that if the preaching is strong amongst the leaders and there's serious chanting, leaders see that everyone is chanting and happily engaged, that there is no disturbance. If the preaching is weak, there is sexual disturbance.

Prabhupāda: Then the material desire becomes prominent.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that these persons, they are holding the... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man, he has no eyes, and still, he's leader of other blind men. Is it possible? A blind man, he is blind man, he has no knowledge, and still, he's leading other blind men. This is a very dangerous position. He has no actual knowledge, simply speculating, putting theories and formulas, and they are leaders of the society.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vipina: Well there's..., well, there was, they were great kings, right? But they didn't agree on how..., who should have the kingdom? Arjuna and his relatives were in disagreement, great kṣatriya leaders.

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas, they are not brāhmaṇas. So when there is disagreement, there is fight. The battle will decide. That is always, at the present moment also. When there is disagreement between nation and nation, there is war declaration. That is natural.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Janice Johnson: But you indicated in..., before you came here, that you were interested in meeting some leaders in the city. Have you met any of them?

Prabhupāda: Leaders?

Hari-śauri: She's wondering whether you met with any political leaders.

Prabhupāda: No. I have no interest with the political leaders because it is not a political movement. It is spiritual movement.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not proper leader. What is this building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the, ah...

Rāmeśvara: Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Metropolitan Museum of Art. Very famous art museum.

Prabhupāda: Saw fireworks in Washington.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, actually the work here needs, you'll see, this building, it actually requires four or five big leaders.

Prabhupāda: One may fall down, but you have to take care.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's much better now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll do, he's good worker, if you can train him, he's a good worker. He can do very nice. He has fallen in māyā, just take care of him, what can be done? He's good worker, very good worker. He can do intelligent service.

Comments on Bhagavad-gita Play -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They are trying to adjust things by the arrangement of external energy. That is not possible. Whatever adjustment they are making, so many big, big leaders, politicians, they came. Napoleon, Hitler, Gandhi, this, that, by the waves of material nature everything is driven away. In that way there is no possibility of adjustment. It is not... Kathacaturamanam mali mali javanam(?) How many, caturānana. Caturānana means Brahmā.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the highest (indistinct) when we come on the loving platform with God, then we are satisfied. Big, big political leaders in our country like Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country so much. But the result was that he was killed by his own men, by his country men. But this is not possible when the love is exchanged between God.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by retired life?

Interviewer: I mean are you giving up your position as spiritual leader?

Rāmeśvara: She means now you are going back to India. Does that mean you are retiring from traveling all over the world preaching?

Prabhupāda: No, she said that spiritual life... "What do you mean by spiri...?"

Hari-śauri: Spiritual leader of the movement.

Rāmeśvara: Managing and everything.

Prabhupāda: So why you are asking this question.

Interviewer: Well, I'm curious.

Prabhupāda: No, why you are curious about this? Whether I am retiring or not, that is...

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: And so that group of eighteen secretaries will choose another leader?

Prabhupāda: I am training each one of them as leader so that they can spread extensively. That is my idea.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: A question: you are now the leader and the spiritual master. Who will take your place?

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa will dictate who will take my place.

Interviewer: Kṛṣṇa will tell you that?

Hari-śauri: You want that verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: And you choose the leaders, or Kṛṣṇa does and tells you, how does that work?

Prabhupāda: No, I have been chosen by my spiritual master.

Interviewer: Yes. And you in turn choose others?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is our succession.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: In other words Prabhupāda will decide who should be leader if he's qualified and there's a process for making him qualified and there's a process for testing to see if he is qualified. So in that way it all comes from Kṛṣṇa.

Interviewer: You chose, for example, these fellows here to run the publishing house and be responsible for the east coast.

Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. He's in charge of publication, he's in charge something else, he's charge, like that.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: It's like the "emperor's new clothes." Everyone thinks it is pleasing because the leaders or the artists say it is pleasing. Everyone is being fooled. And if they say it is meaningless then they are called a fool.

Prabhupāda: In Bengali it is called pare mukhe jhalma(?). Somebody says "Oh, it is very hot!" "Oh, it is very hot!" (laughter) He did not taste, but the other man says "Oh, it is very hot!" So he says "Oh, it is very hot!" Pare mukhe jhalma.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That was my mission. So practically nobody joined me. Then I decided to come here. And these boys cooperated. So I have got great desire to... Because India is by nature Kṛṣṇa conscious, but our modern leaders keeping them suppressed. That is the difficulty. There are so many other difficulties, and leaders are misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā. To tell you frankly, there are so many commentaries on Bhagavad-gītā by Dr. Radhakrishna, by Gandhi, by Tilak, by Aurobindo, or many others. But nobody has said that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa."

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Hṛdayānanda: The religious leaders have become such cheaters that the governments are thinking "Why shouldn't they pay taxes? They're just ordinary people."

Prabhupāda: Best thing is collect and spend, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Don't bank a lot of money.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is not their fault. Even the big, big leaders of India, even Gandhi, they do not know actually. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. The Bhagavad-gītā has been misinterpreted, misused by the leaders, by the politicians, by the so-called philosophers. Everyone has misused.

Arrival at Farm -- July 29, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda:

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

(ŚU 6.23)

This desire to serve guru is the qualification. Yasya deve para bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau. In the spiritual life, this is the secret of success. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā... In many places. Our Gauḍīya Matha people, those who were leaders, they wanted to supersede the order of Guru Mahārāja. Therefore it was failure. Very, very nice.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Everyone is rascal, demons, rogues, everything. There is no ideal character. All politicians, scientists, leaders, they are all drunkards and woman-hunters. So what they can lead? There is no ideal man in the society. The politicians are giving big, big speech in the United Nations. They'll go to the same hotel where another debauchee is dancing and drinking. That's all.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Devotee (1): They came to Paris to see you, and when they learned that you were here, they came all the way here to...

Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: Downstairs? "Haribol." People cannot understand how just by chanting enthusiastic kīrtana so many problems can be solved.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What they understand, all rascals? Wasting time. Going to the moon planet, going to the Mars planet. Why? What you will gain? Still they are going. Simply spending money. In Bengal it is called ostādi. Ostādi, in English? One who places himself as very intelligent leader. What is called in one word?

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That, here is the society. You train them. You have got all children. You train them in that way, so that... Whatever is done is done. Now you can make very good society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Not that one mistake has been done, you should continue. Rectify it. The difficulty is the modern society, the leaders, they do not know the aim of life. They are blindly doing everything like animals. Their philosophy is like the animals.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That's it. This is the... We are all recklessly wasteful sons of God. We are sons of God, there is no doubt, but at the present moment, recklessly wasteful. We are wasting our valuable life even, we are so reckless. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to check their recklessness and bring them into senses of responsibility, going back home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But people are so reckless, as soon as you say something of God, immediately they laugh, "Oh, what is nonsense, God." This is the supreme recklessness. India was very serious about God. Still, India is serious. Now, the present leaders, they are thinking that Indians are spoiled, simply thinking of God—they're not thinking like the Americans and Europeans for economic development.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Because the leaders, they are thieves, they are taking the most, and then they...

Prabhupāda: They have become thieves because their guardians did not care for them. This is going on paramparā. The paramparā is that God's instructions should be distributed. Evaṁ paramparā. But there is no followers of God's instruction.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They say frankly that "We are not interested, why do you bother us?" they say. "Why do you bother us? Why do you come here to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" How much difficult it is you can just understand. They are not ready to hear about it, and our leaders say, "All the śāstras now throw away in the water."

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of go-kharaḥ. That is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) this is the first instruction. Who is thinking that "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's thinking. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And Gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Then what kind of paṇḍita he is? Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), nityam, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul is immortal. Antavanta ime dehāḥ: the śarīra is antavat, perishable.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This philosophy is going on. But Kṛṣṇa says: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), the body is burned, don't think that you are burned. You are living. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who is caring for that? Nobody cares. And still they are passing as paṇḍita, philosopher, scientist. This is misfortune of the present civilization. A person who is equal to go-kharaḥ, he is the teacher, he is the philosopher, he is leader.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They are younger. They are all my childhood playmates. Their older brothers, the eldest one was my very, very intimate friend, Siddheshvar Mullik. We used to ride on the same perambulator when we were three, four years old. And Ratha-yātrā ceremony was performed with all these guests. They were about, in our neighborhood there were four, five houses. So all the children of the same age, I was the leader. (laughs) Yes. I organized this Ratha-yātrā. I was performing Rādhāṣṭamī and Janmāṣṭamī, and I was learning how to dress the Rādhā-Govinda. Yes.

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Unfortunately, I am not receiving encouragement from the leaders and the authorities. This is India's glory. History will say. (prasāda arrives) Give it, yes, you can...

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He'll be forced to give up the body which he is maintaining so nicely. That he is experiencing. Still, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Because he does not know what is self-interest he remains ignorant and dies. This is going on. And leaders-andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind leaders, they are encouraging, "Yes, kick yourself. You live here as nationalist. This is your interest. And fight between one nation to one nation, one man to one man." And they have taken this is value. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Next verse you read.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They may read and translate. And why in India where there is Bhagavad-gītā? Apart from all other Vedic literatures, set aside, the gist of all Vedic knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, there is. And still, people are kept into darkness. How much lamentable. Still, big, big leaders, at least, they want to preach Bhagavad-gītā—without Kṛṣṇa. They have set aside lakhs of rupees for preaching Bhagavad-gītā, but condition is if you preach without Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Chakapat. So whatever is going on in the name of religion, simply cheating. Because religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the laws given by God. That is religion. But they do not know who is God and what is the law. And God is coming personally, giving the laws. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). They'll not take it. In the absence they'll say, "We have not seen God. We do not know who is God." And when He comes, they don't take. They are misguided by the leaders. Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Take Bhagavad-gītā, but don't touch Kṛṣṇa. Untouchable.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me."

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ

(BG 10.8)

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

(BG 7.19)

These things are there. Iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā. Then explain. Vimṛśya, this word is there. Vimṛśyaitad yathecchasi tathā kuru. Find out this verse, iti. These are strong words. Because we are misled by foolish leaders, we are confused. Otherwise everything's clear.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Only for the satisfaction of the senses. They have no other ambition. Because most of them, they do not believe there is next life. Most of them, 99.9 percent, they do not believe. Big, big professor, I have talked with so many big, big men in Europe. They have no... Our leaders also. The Munshi, he did not believe in the next life.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Guest: They are already traced out. So we come here.

Prabhupāda: No, you come and preach. The country is going to hell, the human society is going to hell for misguidance. These rascal leaders, they're going to hell themselves and they're leading others. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These fools and rascals are leading, they are going to hell, and they are taking the followers to the hell. This is going on. Stop this. At least in India. Save.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Not only offered, I have submitted my resignation to Jawaharlal Nehru, which was not accepted because of certain problems at that time. Because of my age, because of my age, and also the Bilateral Talks, Colombo Proposals came. Never mind. That should be the spirit among us, and particularly youngsters, particularly youngsters. They must not forget their religion, they must not forget their country. So anyway, leaders come and go, we all come and go. I am not a leader, please don't put me as a leader. I am one of the humblest workers in this country. I am coming from the humblest section of the society also. The leaders come. (Hindi) If you want to translate you translate, (Hindi). But the country remains (Hindi).

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Whatever is done it is by single man's effort. If all our actual leaders, they take up, then India will be glorified. They'll feel... Yes, they're expecting. Outside India, people, they expect that there is something better knowledge in India. Therefore as soon as some swamis or yogi goes there, they come. But they cheat. These rascals, I shall say that, they do not know anything, and they go there for teaching yoga. Bogus.

Room Conversation -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Acyutānanda: Well apparently they're a little bit envious because Māyāpura is becoming very popular amongst the local people. We get five thousand people now for the prasādam. And even the Congress leaders, they come here and eat with the people. They said, "This is wonderful."

Prabhupāda: Where is that?

Acyutānanda: At Māyāpura.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Acyutānanda: And Jayapatāka is going to the villages, I gave him one bus and he is selling about six to seven hundred Gītār Gāns a day.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: They have to accept you as an international leader.

Prabhupāda: I must be international leader. Yes, they are surprised how... This is unique in the history, that a single person's books are sold in so many large quantities. I don't think any author has sold so many books. Huh?

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: And these leaders are simply envious, that's all. The only reason why they're not helping us is because they're envious. Because so many people are interested and no one is interested in them.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, our Gītār Gān is selling.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Maṇihāra: The sergeants and corporals go first. The leaders of the battalion, they will go first to start to ravage and loot, and then all their men will follow.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, huh? So I have seen in Calcutta outside villages. So my maternal uncle's house was their "Tally-on." (?) So when they used to come there was a, what is called rumor, "Soldiers come..." They'll captured any woman from the street. No restrictions.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: At least, I am trying. But it is very difficult. We have to spoil hundreds of gallons blood before one comes to the point. It is very simple thing. Only our leaders of the society, they are sleeping. They are misguided themselves and misguiding others. That is the difficulty.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Harikeśa:

dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ

na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ

na siddha-mukhyā asurā manuṣyāḥ

kuto nu vidyādhara-cāraṇādayaḥ

(SB 6.3.19)

"Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great ṛṣis who occupy the topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the asuras, ordinary human beings, Vidyādharas and Cāraṇas."

Prabhupāda: Nobody can. This is the principle. So when so many rascal dharma is introduced, that is dharmasya glāniḥ. So we must know this. Then we can understand what is the mission of Bhagavān. When rascals are introducing so-called so many dharmas, that is dharmasya glāniḥ. Do you accept or not?

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is their administration. And that was going on for the last two hundred years. So India lost. (break) ...educated persons they lost. And the mass of people, they were not educated. They have not lost, but they don't find any good example by the leaders.

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: No encouragement.

Prabhupāda: No encouragement. They are simply staying somehow or other in their original culture, but there is no encouragement by the leaders. But the leaders have lost. This is the position. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru, he was a complete rascal about Indian culture. He did not think that Indian culture has any value. Therefore he wrote the book, "Discovery of India." You know that? He has... It is little popular. "Discovery of India." So long India was not discovered by opiate or something like, as the Russians say. Now it is now discovered. And that its leaders have to become Anglicized or Europeanized. Industry, the Western way of living, eating, and everything. Pollution. Everything.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Doctor: One day after barking they will come to a conclusion.

Prabhupāda: No that is... Let it be known, fact, that that will never come. If you do not know what is the aim. That is stated, durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. This is, means, a bad hope, that by this external exhibition of manipulation of energy, they will come to peace. It is not possible. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ adānta-gobhir... (SB 7.5.31). Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. This kind of leading is made by the blind leaders. If the leaders are blind and the followers are blind, what result will be there?

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Interviewer: Sir, apart from Catholicity of the American church, what can be the other reasons of their indifference towards your positive ideas?

Prabhupāda: Not indifference. They are... You see, there is a remark of a politician. There is no indifference. They are appreciating that it is spreading like epidemic. There is no question of indifference. But the leaders, they appreciate. Some of the fathers of my disciples, they come to offer their thanks, "Swamiji, it is a great fortune for us that you have come to our country." They say like that. They appreciate that their sons were going to be hippies.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And we have letters from Swami Premananda and all the (indistinct) from Bombay, and sent all these to Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone should join. Now people are taking this cultural movement so seriously and if our Indian leaders sleep, that is not good.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is why these leaders are getting confused, so many bogus people are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That should, action should be there. If we come out successful in this, how you say, messing, and that will be very good. It is called that, messing?

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: I will stay if you hold immediately meeting in this temple. We have got enough space here. First of all you see some leading gosvāmī, and then you chalk out how to fight. All the (indistinct). Now it is question of Kṛṣṇa cult, it is not only Gauḍīya. So take gosvāmīs, some of you and meet all the leaders and hold a meeting, immediately... And explain the whole situation. Let us combine and those who are educated, they should go.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is kṣatriya. Now, who is kṣatriya? A fourth-class man, he never seen battlefield and by vote he becomes president. And here kṣatriya means yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. If there is fight he must come forward first of all. He is in his palace, and he's engaging common men, "Go and fight." When there was Battle of Kurukṣetra Arjuna and Duryodhana, they came first. Because the battle was decided as soon as the leader is dead. No more fight.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything give up. That is India's Vedic civilization. They are not concerned with the material advancement. Simple life. That's all. And our present leaders, they are thinking that "brainwashed." They are not deeply thinking, "Why our great sages and ācāryas recommended this life, not the skyscraper life? Why? They were not less intelligent."

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where the spiritual civilization has a strong background, they are also not believing. Nobody believes Kṛṣṇa is God. Even big, big leaders, what to speak of ordinary men. Especially the so-called educated men. "Bring money anyhow and enjoy life." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And for money they are doing everything. Black money, white money, yellow money, this money. (laughs) "Bring money and enjoy. Bas. This is life.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society. They are thinking, "This life is everything. Misled, they do not know the aim of life. That is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind leader is leading other blind men. This is going on. And when we present the real solution, they say it is brainwash. Now against our movement there is propaganda in USA, charging that "He has brainwashed them."

Room Conversation -- December 7, 1976, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁśa: They can start today? The boys are ready. They want to move but it's just the leaders which have not decided on getting it done.

Prabhupāda: So decide now. What is difficulty?

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Prasāda is not yet ready, you also said. After eating I have no, not yet ready. What is this? At 2 o'clock? As soon as they want. The Vṛndāvana also, the same thing I told that what they are doing? Prasādam, as soon as they want, they'll must feed some prasādam according to the position of the person. We shall spend for that. I am not hesitating to spend money, why the arrangement is lacking? Immediately arrange for theirs and invite them. Don't make it childish. Where are the leaders, they are now engaged there?

Jagadīśa: Pardon me?

Prabhupāda: Our leaders are engaged there?

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is open to everyone. Where is the difficulty? Unless we deny to accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, there is no secret. Everything is open. But our leaders and scholars, they do not like to take Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. We are therefore insisting, we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no interpretation. They say, "Why not interpretation?" That is the defect. We say no interpretation. You take Kṛṣṇa as it is, that's all. Then your life is successful.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (9): The sections of your movement accept in that sense.

Prabhupāda: No, they have given up. They have purposefully given up, that "This religion and śāstra has killed our nation. Better give it up. Throw it in the water." This is the leaders' plea. Therefore they are changing. They have altogether rejected this.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Dr. Ramachandra: It's our luck that I could meet you. You are a great leader of, religious leader, you see, international. And you belong to order of the Caitanya Maṭha.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Indian lady: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So why you shall go to so many leaders? Why not go to the supreme leader, Kṛṣṇa?

Indian lady: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: If you explain, that is another... But interpretation.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But All India conference, it is not for mass understanding. Kṛṣṇa said yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. Śreṣṭhaḥ means the leaders of society. Rājarṣayo. Not ordinary persons. Rāja, he must be just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Lord Rāmacandra, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. They are rājarṣi. They are saintly persons, but they are governor.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Surrender, that is oneness. Not that individually he has become different. Individually he is, but he does not disagree with Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness. Just like we are sitting, we are of different interests. But so far my disciples are, they will not disagree with me. That is oneness. But he is individual. He was individual, he is individual and he will continue his individuality. But as soon as he accepts me as the leader, then he is agreement. That is oneness.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: They are giving importance to the external energy. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). And they are being encouraged by the so-called leaders to give stress on this external energy. Although they are tightly tied with the laws of nature. The laws of nature will finish this body. But still they are attached to this body. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. I had been to that Gandhi's place.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): Sir, I read in one of your lectures at London, before the British office (indistinct), and you gave the example of Mahatma Gandhi and Kennedy. In particular, Mahatma Gandhi you said that four types of (sic:) defaulted mind and this condition and those condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Every living being is polluted by four kinds of deficiencies. A conditioned soul commits mistake. He takes something for something. And because he has no perfect knowledge, he wants to become leader. That is cheating.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (2): What are the aims of the Indian society. Although it's given birth to so much, it still doesn't take it as success. What is the weakness in the Indian society that they don't...

Prabhupāda: Because they have got bad leaders, the rascal leaders. Just like see. Mahatma Gandhi, he misled. But he did not know how to lead. And what to speak of others. They do not know. I saw this Vinoba Bhave, he does not know anything. He has become leader. I saw in his āśrama about one dozen women, they are reciting Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And for the last forty years he's working on Bhagavad-gītā, and the result is some forty women is reciting Bhagavad-gītā. So this is the result. So what they will do? They do not know how to lead. And he has written one book on Bhagavad-gītā, but he has become a great leader. And that is also not according to Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): But sir, would you not agree that in order to appeal to the masses or to make masses into any movement...

Prabhupāda: No, it is... You see... It is not... If you want to become an educated man or if you want to give first-class education, it is not for the mass. It is for the leader. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the leaders are educated, then others will follow. But if the leaders are not educated, what the others will do? That is the difficulty. And the so-called leaders, without being educated, they become leader.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Our knowledge... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. So who can be more śreṣṭha than Kṛṣṇa? Than Vyāsadeva, Nārada, the ācāryas? But they will not follow. They will manufacture some idea. That is the difficulty in India at the present moment. Some upstart leaders, they have misled them. That is the difficulty. And we are poor fellows. If we say the right thing, they'll not take it.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I am simply saying what Kṛṣṇa has said. But they will reject that. I say that Kṛṣṇa says that you become a Kṛṣṇa's devotee. It is very simple for me. And they will say, "Huh! What is this nonsense Kṛṣṇa? We have seen this Kṛṣṇa. Now we have got this leader." This is the problem. Upadeṣo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. (Hindi) Śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). (Hindi) Nobody's... (Hindi)

Guest (1): No, the other day I was with Natalia in Japan, and he also said the same thing, that we have no training for the leaders. And because there is no proper leadership, everything comes to a zero. You have to train a man or a woman for a particular work. That is not being done in India.

Guest (2): British did it.

Guest (1): They made their servants quite all right.

Prabhupāda: They wanted for graft, to manipulate their empire. They wanted some subordinate hands. They never wanted to give real education.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But you have spoiled them. You have given this impression that "This 'religion, religion, religion' has spoiled our country. Now throw it, all these books, in the water." The leaders say that. "Take to technology." They come to me. They challenge, "Swamiji, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will do? Now we require technology." This is ignorance.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): Eventually they will come around, but it will take time.

Prabhupāda: No, the leaders are not... Because their position will be finished, the so-called leaders. They want to keep in ignorance the mass of people so their foolish leadership may go on continually. That is everywhere. (break) ...learn this philosophy and preach. That is the best service.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): One of the best religious leaders. That's what people think.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that may be, falsely representation, but where he is recommending that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and worship Him"? Has he done that? That means misleading. He can become a very good orator, and he can get claps, but what is the benefit? He's a good orator, there is no doubt about it. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that "You become a orator and cheat others." He does not say. He says, "Surrender unto Me." So if actually one is preaching, he should teach the audience that "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." And that is reading of Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So all these people, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, and they are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chanting) Is it not a fact? All these big big leaders, they'll speak on Bhagavad-gītā, and they will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You surrender to Him."

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Good leadership means you must learn how to lead people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the śreṣṭha, the leader is ideal, then others will follow. But if the leader is not ideal, if he is not in the awareness of things, then people will be misguided.

Mr. Tombe: So how can we chalk out a program of, say, training of leaders from the villages...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to take lessons from the biggest leader, Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). He's the leader of the demigods also. We have to take lesson from... That lesson is there, Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not take it. We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṇa said... Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is their... All these.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṇa said... Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is their... All these. What can I say? These misleaders, they are doing that. Leadership is already there. Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṇa. So if you learn from Kṛṣṇa you become perfect leader. But we do not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. We manufacture our own ideas. That is failure. Otherwise in our country so many learned sages, especially Kṛṣṇa is there, and their books are there, their instructions are there. We do not take them. Still we become leader. So what kind of leading? He's imperfect.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all you become perfect by taking lessons from the Vedic literature. And then you do good to others. But without making yourself perfect, if you try to do good to others, that is chaos. Then again comes, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Some blind men following another blind man. What will be the result? The present Indians, we have lost our own culture. We have rejected our own culture. Still we are leading people. There is chaotic condition. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to correct this mistake. So leaders like you should cooperate.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Mr. Tombe: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then things will be perfect. India, if the whole world can be saved from this chaotic position, India can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But that India leaders first of all make his life perfect. Then it will be all right. Just like our... Of course, I'm not proud, but I am alone. I started this movement alone, without any help. But because I am giving them the perfect information, whole world is taking it. Otherwise, from practical point of view, one man without any help, within ten years he cannot do like this. That's a fact. But I have no difficulty because I am following the Supreme Leader, Kṛṣṇa. People may say that I've done wonderful, but there is nothing magic. Because I am following Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Leader, so far it has become successful.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ask the leaders! I was talking that in all our other branches, our men manage the cooking and kitchen and as soon as they come here, they become varalasai. (?) That is Rāvaṇa. Why do they not do here? We have to keep some cook who is neither initiated, nor very clean, a smoker, and we have to keep them. (break) In all other branches, the boys and girls, they manage everything.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you are welcome always. Whenever you find time. (Hindi) Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). This is Caitanya. First of all, make your life successful. That successful means yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128), to understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly. Then you become guru. When you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you are janma sārthaka. And then you can speak para-upakāra. Otherwise, it is not possible. Without Kṛṣṇa tattva-jñāna, if we become leader, that will not take... yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). What is that?

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Indian lady: No, not that. No no.

Prabhupāda: No. Then why you take that? That is explained the Bhāgavatam, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The shepherd may be followed by so many sheep but that does not mean he's an important man. That is the... That is the, going on. The so-called leaders, they are just like shepherd and we are like sheep. But that does not mean the shepherd is an important man.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Indian lady: But we'll change only when there is a guru-kṛpā.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says... You are taking Bhagavad-gītā, the leader is taking Bhagavad-gītā, and he's speaking nonsense. So we are human beings, we should know what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The paramparā, whether he's speaking paramparā or he's speaking whimsically. That much sense we must have.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...saintly person. Such men should understand. Rājarṣi. Not ordinary king. Ṛṣi. Ṛṣi tulya. So if one is religious, then he will institute. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the big, big leaders, politicians, they accept Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, then others will follow. Unfortunately, the leaders, they have their own interpretation. They won't accept Bhagavad-gītā. That is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Work very hard like hogs." And there is advertisement "Work hard. The next (?)." They are pulling one trailer, rickshaw, still, their leaders are advising, "Work hard. Work still more hard." A human being is pulling on trailer and rickshaw, and still hard work. And that rascal does not know that this hard work like hogs and dogs will not make the solution. But they are enthusing, "Yes, work hard. Be stout and strong, as if becoming stout and strong will save him. That's not possible.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the real civilization. Soul is enwrapped with this material body and it has to be stopped. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). That is civilization. And he has no knowledge, na te viduḥ, what is the civilization. Then andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The rascal leader is also blind and the followers are blind, so both of them are doomed. Therefore the conclusion is, the modern civilization is misguided. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Big, big leaders, they promises big, big ideal that "I shall give you this facility. Just elect me." What facility he will give? No facility. He gives some false promise and gets his election and claps. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He does not know what is the aim of life. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He is animal also. And the other animals clapping, "Oh, we have got such a big leader." Big elephant, yes. (laughter) And elephant he may be, but he is, after all, a animal. What he'll do? Misguided.

Room Conversation -- December 28, 1976, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: She's a leader of the opposition.

Hari-śauri: No, she was the Prime Minister as well. She's the opposition now.

Prabhupāda: Woman is acting as police in England.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Indian men refuse this culture. India's leader, beginning from Gandhi and all, they do not know what is India's culture. They have forgotten.

Indian man: Would you like to include Gandhi also in that?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Otherwise, how it can be? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31).

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now how you will understand unless you come to the science? (break) Gandhi manufactured. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and he wanted to draw the conclusion of nonviolence. What is this? Kṛṣṇa says kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame... "In this battlefield you are talking of nonsense, that 'I'll not fight.' " He says so and Gandhi wanted to make it nonviolent. Just see how from the very beginning he distorted. And people accept it. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). He was a śreṣṭha, leader. So whatever he will say people will accept. The whole India became spoiled.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Not to mix with this rascal class of men. Aratir jana-saṁsadi. Not that I hold a meeting and some rascals give me clapping, (claps hands) I become... Don't be after this. Try to understand the reality. But we, we become political leader, and if one thousand or one lakh of people give me a few claps I think I become perfect. What you are perfect? The next moment by the laws of nature you'll be slapped and taken away. Who could save Gandhi when he was fired by the laws by the nature? That clapping would not save me. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). When Kṛṣṇa will come and put you death, what you will do? With you clapping and your bank balance. You'll be taken away.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: When we go out and preach and we just repeat or try to repeat whatever we've heard from the spiritual master, but we may not have fully realized what we're speaking about, does that somehow or another reduce the potency of the Gītā or the Bhāgavatam or...

Prabhupāda: Yes, realization takes time. Therefore there is no question of realization. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says you simply repeat as Kṛṣṇa says. That will save you. The so-called political leaders, they have no realization, but they manufacture their ideas. That is dangerous. Mislead themselves and others. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, ācāryopāsanam. Amānitvam adambhitvam. This is the process of knowledge. These so-called scholars and politicians, they have no ācārya. Instead of being amānitvam, they're mani... "I have become a leader, so whatever I shall say, it will be accepted." This is going on. Very bad. It is clearly said, as soon as you give up the ācārya system it is rotten. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So things which is rotten, what you'll get benefit? That is going on. Therefore in spite of so many Gītā commentators, big, big leaders, scholars, not a single person is converted into a devotee. Not a single person amongst their followers.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Ācārya is one who ācāra, himself practices.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. One who knows and practices. Ācinoti śāstra. One who knows the real purpose. And there is no difficulty of understanding the real purpose. It is clearly said, everything. The process of knowledge is given, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). Where is that? In the beginning, "Oh, I am such a big leader, politician. Whatever I say is nice." Dambha. Dambha. Because he's thinking puffed-up falsely. Some rascal fools give them clap.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Nowadays sir, they collect people to clap them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They make such a speech and practice. One political leader, he is young man, he was saying in Hyderabad... He was ambassador in... That Rao?

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He was a partial political leader also.

Prabhupāda: That's all. He's a political leader.

Dr. Patel: But then he had a great burning desire to see that India be free of British purpose. He was a real nationalist...

Prabhupāda: That even cats and dogs, they also want that my cats be well fed and strong. That is not a very good position. And Bhagavad-gītā says aratiḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. This is philosophy. And if one is attached to his homely happiness he's not even a man of knowledge.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So Prabhupāda, I was just finalizing today this year's festival when the devotees come. I think instead of having a festival, a pandal in Delhi like we had last year. We had one in Ludhiana and Mathurā. In Ludhiana Caityaguru promises that he can raise money for the whole thing. Our devotees won't have to spend a penny. In Delhi if we do a pandal it will require an investment of at least twenty thousand rupees. If we do our festival in Ludhiana, book distribution I calculated will be as good and no money will be invested. We have a festival in Mathurā in Janma Bhumi. Every evening by buses devotees will go from Vṛndāvana to Mathurā. You wanted to have a big program there, you remember? When I was in Vṛndāvana. So we can invite different leaders also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.