Prabhupāda: Yes. Religious... If you say religious orders, there are many religious orders; they allow all these things. It is not exactly religious order. It is training of consciousness, because we are trying to put people in original, pure consciousness, which we call, technically, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like when rain is showered from the cloud, it is pure distilled water, but as soon as it is in touch with the earth, it is salty or so many chemicals are formed, similarly, original consciousness is pure, but when it is contaminated with matter, the consciousness is impure. So we are trying to purify the consciousness. That's all. That is our program. It is not a religious order. Consciousness is there in every living entity, and we are trying to purify his consciousness. When he comes to his original consciousness he becomes completely happy.
Collaborate with us to invoke and fully manifest Śrīla Prabhupāda's presence
In touch with (Conversations)
Prabhupāda: Anyone who has unflinching devotional faith in God, he has all the good qualities. I've several times narrated the story of that hunter. He was animal killer and he used to enjoy by killing the animal half. But when he became a devotee, he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Who taught him? Nobody taught him but he was simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So if you actually making progress in devotional service, you are constantly in touch with the purest. Kṛṣṇa is the purest. Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhama pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). "You are the paraṁ brahma, Supreme Brahman." Brahman, every living entity is Brahman but He is paraṁ brahma, the leader of the Brahman. Just like the president is the first citizen of the state. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also a living entity, but supreme living entity. Just like the first citizen. So similarly, every living entity is Brahman, but paraṁ brahma is one.
Prabhupāda: So the society is very important thing. Any, anything, society... The businessmen, they have got their association, society, to improve. Therefore the standard of this International Society should be kept very carefully. Then who will come in touch with this society will be improved automatically by association. All right. Even in the bird society there are swans and there are crows, by nature, and the crows will never go to the swans, and the swans will never come to the crows. "Birds of the same feather flock together." Yes. Therefore society required. Unless you come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, how you can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness? The same principle. Satāṁ prasaṅgān... Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathaḥ (SB 3.25.25). Vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. It becomes very palatable, satāṁ prasaṅgāt, in the association of devotees, not otherwise. (end)
Sister Mary: Do you find that you chant, it clarifies you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. God and God's name, and God or God's son, they are nondifferent. So either I be in touch with God's son or God's name, I am in touch with God. But they are nondifferent.
Sister Mary: What happens to your mind? What do you do with your mind when you chant?
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be in my mind, it doesn't matter. My mind may be different.
Sister Mary: Where does it have to be? It has to be fixed?
Revatīnandana: What will the mind be doing?
Guru dāsa: He was not sure, but they both said sixty thousand, but they were not sure.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) Since both of us say sixty thousand, I think you can get in touch.
Guru dāsa: But that is very nice plot. And it is about two times as large as Mr. Dalmia's land, and Mr. Dalmia was asking fifty thousand.
Dr. Kapoor: No, he has purchased it for fifty thousand. Sixty thousand is his entire cost, including expenses and everything. I asked him, he told me. Sixty thousand. So from that point, that land is cheap.
Prabhupāda: Universal. We present such God.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Moreover, we present a God that is lovable.
Prabhupāda: Lovable, yes. Practical. Anyone who comes in touch with Him, he becomes a lover of..., immediately. How you can say that is not God? You have to prove that He is not God. That you cannot.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: How many qualifications does a spiritual master have in terms of being a spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: One qualification: he is a devotee of God. That's all.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also is he designated?
Prabhupāda: That is nothing. That period of time is relative. As human beings, we live for some time-say for a hundred years—but there are demigods who can live for millions of years. And an ant will live for only a few hours. So this is relative. But time is eternal, and what is happening in so-called human history has no consideration from the viewpoint of eternal time. That is all relative. If there is some catastrophe in ant society, the ants may be very much concerned, but human society does not take any notice of it. Similarly, if a catastrophe occurs in human society, the demigods, who are higher than us, do not consider it. Some birds or cats or dogs may be fighting, and for them it may be a catastrophe, but for us it is nothing. This is the relative world, and we should know that what has happened in this world is not worthy of consideration in terms of universal affairs. Things are coming and going like seasonal changes. Arjuna put this question to Kṛṣṇa: "This is a catastrophe! I have to kill my own men." Although Arjuna believed this to be a catastrophe, Kṛṣṇa likened it to seasonal changes. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons." In the winter season water is not very pleasant, but in the summer it is very pleasing. What then, is the condition of water? Is it pleasing or not? The water is the same, but in touch with our skin it becomes pleasing or not according to the climatic circumstances.
Devotee (1): Because also, even if someone is expert in English, if they don't practice or come in touch with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they still cannot say.
Devotee (1): If Macmillan publishes Bhagavad-gītā in English is there any difficulty for us to publish by another company (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of Kṛṣṇa. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies. According to the nature's direction I am getting body, I am giving it up, again I am desiring something, I am getting another body. This is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). He is a rascal. He is thinking, "I am this body." Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This is a yantra, machine. And we are traveling many species of life, all riding on this car, given by nature. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Māyā has given this vehicle, anywhere wandering, up and down, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog. This is going on. And in this wandering process, if he gets in touch with a devotee, then his real spiritual life begins. Otherwise he has to go on, rotating.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, there are different departments, and the, there is a man, departmental-in-charge. So if you can talk with that departmental-in-charge, if you can please him, that means you are pleasing the proprietor or director. There is no doubt. Because he is representative.
Prabhupāda: So the iron becomes warm, warmer, and then at last, it becomes red-hot. When the iron is red-hot, it is no longer iron. It is fire. If you touch anywhere, it will burn. Although apparently it is iron rod, but because it has become red-hot, it is fire. Similarly, if you constantly keep in spiritual activities, your outward body, although it is iron and matter, it becomes spiritualized. Try to understand this example. Iron rod put into the fire, when it is red-hot, it is no longer iron rod. It is fire. Similarly this body, although material, if you constantly keep in touch with spiritual activities, then it is no longer material. It is spiritual. The body's also spiritual.
Mrs. Wells: And how long do you think this takes to...
Prabhupāda: So long you keep in spiritual activities.
Prabhupāda: They've got New Vrindaban, New Navadvīpa, New Jagannātha Purī, New Dvārakā...
Pradyumna: New Gayā...
Prabhupāda: ...New Gayā, and this is the New Gokula. You are in touch in politics, therefore I'm talking something of politics, that the politicians of India, they wanted the..., from the British government, India, a strong united nation. But they could not achieve that goal. Pakistan was taken away. They're now lamenting, or there is some, always unsettled anxiety due to Pakistan. So... So far this movement is concerned, we are spreading the Indian culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all over the world. So the politicians are lamenting for division of India, and here is a movement that everyone will glorify India for this culture. Why do they not join? It is practical.
Man: (indistinct), is it?
Prabhupāda: ...in this way a living entity is wandering, but by fortune, if he gets in touch, guru-kṛṣṇa, a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, a guru, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart, then he gets the seed of devotional service. And if he cultivates that devotional service, then he goes. This is the process. Not that because one has suffered so much, therefore automatically.
Woman: No, no.
Prabhupāda: No, not that.
Man: Swamiji, my wife is tired, I think. She's had a long day today. May I have your permission...
Guest (1): Even if somebody says he is supramental or not, a yogi automatically, when he is in touch with the creative power, he gets the, gets the knowledge of past, present and future.
Prabhupāda: Then why your knowledge and my knowledge different?
Guest (1): Because of our construction of mind.
Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it, that...
Guest (1): The vibration comes the same, but one poet may write a poetry of a very high..., you know, Shakespeare...
Prabhupāda: I've got... I made...
Mr. Sar: Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvam.
Prabhupāda: At least, preliminary condition for being in touch with God is there. Because Kṛṣṇa says, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. So they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That means they are pious.
Mr. Sar: Yes, sukṛtinaḥ.
Mr. Sar: Otherwise you cannot be bhakta.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...is karma-yoga. And yogena means?
Prabhupāda: Yoga means to connect with Kṛṣṇa. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha. That is yoga. (break) ...in touch with Kṛṣṇa, this Hare Kṛṣṇa. Always in touch. Because the Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent. So if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then you are always in Kṛṣṇa, with Kṛṣṇa. Even while walking on the beach, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa means we are walking with Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: And we are reading this Bhagavad-gītā. Here, we are chanting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also.
Dr. Patel: Chanting, no?
Prabhupāda: That is also chanting. Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Vīta-rāga-bhaya-śoka, mad-bhāva upagamya. Bahu... What is that? I forget now, this... Vīta... Yajña... Pūtā. Mad-bhāvam adhigacchati. Mad-bhāvam means by devotional service one attains the nature of Kṛṣṇa, no more interested with the material distress and material happiness. That does not affect them. That is the... That is also stated in another place of Bhagavad-gītā.
- māṁ cavyabhicāriṇi
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
He also becomes brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). Just like if you be in touch with the fire, then you become also warm. The quality of fire is warmth. So if you keep yourself always, constantly in touch with the fire, you also become warm. So this Kṛṣṇa's qualification, that He's not affected by the material happiness and distress, can be attained by anyone who always keeps his association with Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear?
M. Roche-dieu: Are you in touch with Professor M. Eliade who is in Chicago, department, religious department?
Yogeśvara: What is his name?
M. Roche-dieu: Mssr. Eliade, Eliade.
Yogeśvara: Professor Eliage?
M. Roche-dieu: E-l-i-a-d-e. He's a woman.
Yogeśvara: Eliage, Professor Eliage...
M. Roche-dieu: Eliade. Eliade.
Yogeśvara: Eliade. Chicago University?
Prabhupāda: No, I have never gone to Chicago.
Robert Gouiran: May I... I agree completely because I felt that when I could get a contact with the spiritual plane, I felt the protection. I felt that nothing could happen to me, not happen. As long as I was in touch...
Robert Gouiran: ...with this plane, nothing could happen because I felt I was in harmony. And when I went back, I took the plane, exactly as you say, at Colombo, I went by Colombo, and there was a storm, terrible storm when the plane took off, and the lady beside me was very frightened, and I was so enlightened at the time that I told her, "We are protected. I am protected. So if you are beside me you are also protected. So nothing could happen." And it was an extraordinary feeling. In French we call that providence. You know that?
Prabhupāda: You call in any way, but the fact is this that there is something, when in contact with that something, the matter grows. Otherwise it doesn't grow. That we call spirit soul. You may call it something else. That is a different thing. You can call in a different name, but matter grows not automatically. There must be in touch something with matter. Then it grows. This is a fact.
Robert Gouiran: And it grows by aglutamation (?) of particles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That may be. The composition may be. We take grossly five matters, gross matters, and five subtle matters. Five gross matters: this earth, water, air, fire, ether. These are gross matters. And subtle matters: mind, intelligence and ego. These are eight different types of gross and subtle matters. But they depend on the still more subtle thing. That is soul. If the soul is there, the gross matter, this material body, it grows, the mind acts, the intelligence acts, the ego acts, and as soon as the soul is out of this body, it does not act. It decomposes and again turns into gross matter. That's all. Therefore that spirit soul is the basic ground wherefrom the matter develops. Matter is developing, we can understand. A small child is developing big, fatty body. The elephant. But in the middle, if you stop, if you drive away the spirit, it will not grow.
Prabhupāda: Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. These are the proofs. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he becomes qualified with all godly attributes. That I have explained, that if you be in touch with God, then you become godly. That is the test. Simply by saying that "I am in commune with God." No. There is test. The test means if he is always in touch with God, he'll become, in his characteristics, godly. So they... One of the qualifications is serenity. Is one of the qualifications. There are twenty-five qualifications of a devotee.
Reverend Powell: Twenty-five?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiḥ labhate naraḥ (BG 18.46). That is another way, that "I have no other means of earning livelihood." But if he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then even though he is acting as an electrician, he is in touch with Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya. That I explained in the varṇāśrama-dharma, that even though leg is leg, it is not as important as the head. But the leg is also required to keep the body in healthy condition. So that electrician who has connection with Kṛṣṇa, he is no more electrician; he is Vaiṣṇava because he has got his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. So that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out Bhagavad-gītā. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiḥ labhate naraḥ. You can get perfection.
Prabhupāda: This is appreciation.
Amogha: He never got time to read it.
Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. If he keeps the books with appreciation, that makes his life sure, insured. He immediately becomes in touch with God. Who keeps the book with reverence and love, immediately he becomes in touch with God. Because these books are representative of God.
Amogha: When we go to a school, I first ask, "How many students have seen us chanting in the steets?" Immediately they all raise their hands.
Prabhupāda: It is a very nice service you are doing. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied, hari-toṣaṇa. As soon as Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, your preaching is perfect. (end)
Paramahaṁsa: Tim Downs. He is the man who may come from radio to make a conversation. Then they will play it on radio. But I have to find out if he's coming. And in the case that there may be three people who want to come, so would it be possible for tonight to having two, maybe five o'clock and seven o'clock or something like that?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. I will keep in touch with those people and let them know. I will send them some literature too. Should I go and telephone those people?
Prabhupāda: Um hm. (end)
Prabhupāda: I also like. (laughter) Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. This is essential, to be anxious to be associated with the spiritual master. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). That is the statement of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa one comes in touch with the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of spiritual master, one gets Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa can understand what we want. So when we sincerely want Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa sends His representative, guru. Guru is outside representative of Kṛṣṇa. So to the sincere student, Kṛṣṇa teaches from inside and outside. That is the way, so that he becomes quickly fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. So this behavior, to be attached to spiritual master, is a good qualification. Yasya prasādāt, by his mercy, Kṛṣṇa becomes merciful.
Prabhupāda: Everything within the temple should be kept very, very neat and clean. And the more you keep the temple neat and clean, you will be neat and clean within your heart. And then your understanding will be very easy. We cannot understand Kṛṣṇa because our heart is piled up with many garbages. That we have to cleanse. Then it will be easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. So I am very much pleased that we have secured this nice building. Keep it very neat and clean and go on chanting. You have got nice place for chanting and dancing. And utilize the open land for growing flower. In this way make this center unique. And it is a recognized building. If people understand that this building is now a temple and very nicely kept, people will come and see. So keep yourself always in touch with the principles and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and those who are... All of you, I think, you are educated. Read books. Try to understand the philosophy. Then your life is successful. Thank you very much for your coming.
Dr. Pore: Is chanting absolutely necessary in the knowing...
Prabhupāda: That is the easiest way of being directly in touch with God. Because God and God's name, they are absolute, so your chanting the name of God means that directly in touch with God.
Dr. Crossley: Why is that better than loving your fellow man in the traditional bhakti-mārga?
Prabhupāda: But you love your fellow man, but you don't love your fellow animal. You love man, but you send the animals to the slaughter-house. That is your love.
Dr. Wolfe: And the soldiers into the battle to be killed.
Prabhupāda: So our business is, spiritual master's business is, how to help the disciple to transfer the attachment. It is not that we are creating an, it, artificially, no. The attachment quality is there. But it is being mixed up with material things. And if you purify this material contamination, then the attachment become pure, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like the water falls from the sky. It is distilled water. And as soon as it is in touch with the ground it becomes muddy, dirty. Again that water, if you distill, again it becomes distilled water, as good as the rain water, original. Therefore bhakti means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). All the dirty things of designation should be cleansed. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. When the mind is cleansed, nirmalam, without any dirty thing, then you can begin bhakti immediately, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). So bhakti means cleansing process. Originally, distilled water from the sky, in touch with the ground, it is muddy. You filter it or distill it; it becomes original.
Prabhupāda: Chanting means the holy name of the Lord. The Lord is absolute. His name is not different from Him. So if you chant properly or improperly even, then immediately you be in touch with God. And as you become in touch with God, you become purified. So as you become purified, you know, actually you can see perfectly what is the aim of your life, how the human form of life should be utilized. These thing will be revealed. This is the process of chanting. Try to understand. Chanting the holy name of the Lord means the name of the Lord and the Lord, God, is not different. Just like the sun and the sunshine is not different. Wherever there is sun, or wherever... Sun may be 93,000,000 miles away from us, but by the sunshine we can appreciate sun. Similarly, God may be long, long away from us, but if we chant His holy name, immediately we become in contact with Him. This is the purpose of chanting the holy name of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but why he dreams like that? One is dreaming like that, another is dreaming a different way. That is due to his practice. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Śrīdhara: People say then that the soul must be impure. If the soul can, not...
Prabhupāda: Impure in this sense: that he has come in touch with the impure. And if he becomes untouched with the impure, then he is no more impure. That is described in Bhagavad-gītā,
- māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
- bhakti-yogena sevate
- sa guṇān samatityaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
Immediately he becomes pure. Kṛṣṇa says,
- sarva-dharmān parityajya
- mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
- ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
- (BG 18.66)
"I shall make you immediately pure." Why don't you do that? You want to remain impure, so you must suffer.
Mr. Dixon: Your Grace, do you keep in touch with the world through television or newspapers or the media?
Prabhupāda: Yes, many newspaper, many television men, they come. But we speak our philosophy plainly.
Mr. Dixon: Do you watch TV yourself?
Prabhupāda: No, we have no business. We don't wish to waste our time.
Mr. Dixon: Do you read newspapers?
Prabhupāda: No. What is newspaper? "This man is killed. This man has stolen. This politician has captured the government." So why shall I waste time?
Prabhupāda: We have got enough books to read, these books. If you read our books, in your whole lifetime you cannot finish it. And that is required to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is success of life. So why should.... Of course, we are in touch in the newspaper, but as much as it is required. We are in touch with the material world as much as it is required. We are interested in Kṛṣṇa. To help our Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may be in touch with the material world as much as possible. Just like we are riding car also, we are also using dictaphone, everything, but it is not for any ulterior purpose. It is for Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like we are writing books. This is Kṛṣṇa's service. People may understand about Kṛṣṇa, be benefited. This is our.... And in that way we are printing books, we are selling books, we are writing books.
Richard: But it's still very active.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, just like if my car breaks down, that does not mean I have broken down. I'm the passenger.
Richard: Can't she be in touch with her soul in a coma?
Hari-śauri: She is soul.
Devotee: She is soul.
Hari-śauri: That personality, that is the soul.
Rāmeśvara: No, when the machine, when the conscious, when the body is broken like that, she cannot become self-realized.
Rādhāvallabha: She's active on the mental platform.
Prabhupāda: She's covered with the body, but she's different from the body. Just like you are covered by your dress, but you are different from the dress.
Prabhupāda: Whatever he may be, but we have got our own formula to understand.
Hari-śauri: He did a practical demonstration of what he said a person who is in touch with God can be capable of doing if he allows himself to become an instrument of God. So for eight months he painted continually, and he produced 27,000 paintings, and he said that this was proof that he was God realized.
Prabhupāda: Mauna, the word begins with mauna.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maunam, like in silence. Mauna-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhvavana?
Prabhupāda: Perception of the soul is there, but this physical demonstration is of the soul by consciousness. The more it is purified, it becomes spiritual. The consciousness is there. The more it is purified, then it becomes spiritual. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). It has to be purified. The water is crystal clear, but when it comes in touch with the earth it becomes muddy. But again you can clarify it, and water becomes crystal clear. That consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Sadāpūta: So we wanted to then say that, a few lines of reasoning, that you have to have higher-ordered laws to cause complex forms...
Prabhupāda: That higher-order laws is explained, mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ?
Prabhupāda: Sūyate sa-carācaram, hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate. Things are going down on account of the superior direction.
Prabhupāda: Simply outside arrangement, how to take it.
Rūpānuga: So in other words the tree or the plant in agriculture takes the chemicals from the soil...
Prabhupāda: The seed, as soon as come in touch with the earth, the seed exacts particular chemical and everything from there. This is the arrangement.
Rūpānuga: So that spirit soul in the seed, he is not creating anything; he is taking.
Prabhupāda: Spirit soul, according to his karma, takes shelter of the situation. But the seed, the chemical composition, exacts the desired.
Rūpānuga: All Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.
Prabhupāda: Authorities. So keep connection with him.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And he even wants to write some articles along these lines.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is favorable, keep in touch. (long pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One thing I wanted to ask was about the ārati, in offering ārati, now we blow the conchshell, but, ah, coming out the pūjārī from the altar, outside, when the pūjārī blows the conchshell, he does this, especially in Atlanta, and I think in other temples also I have seen, the pūjārī comes out of the...
Rūpānuga: Yes, he comes on this side of the altar and blows the conchshell. Is that all right? It should be behind the curtain or in front of the curtain?
Prabhupāda: Behind the curtain?
Prabhupāda: What is Iran's business going on? I got some good report from Nandarāṇī that she is in contact with the Shah's daughter, princess. Is that a fact?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Well, Nandarāṇī Prabhu is doing very well. She's got a Gurukula, a school for the Indian children, they are being well attended. Also Mahārāja, Parivrājakācārya Svāmī, he has been in touch with the Shah's daughter and he's been preaching to them.
Prabhupāda: Shah's son-in-law is interested, I have heard.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, he is interested.
Prabhupāda: That's good. They are enlightened, the daughter and the son-in-law both?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Well, they are both interested, but they are also very much...
Prabhupāda: Biased. They are also biased.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Detroit. (break) ...Mālatī?
Bhagavān: Mālatī? She was there.
Hari-śauri: All those boys are coming tomorrow or the day after from Germany. Harikeśa was in touch with them.
Bhagavān: We have a nice program on saṅkīrtana where at least twice a week they go to a house and give a class at someone's home.
Bhagavān: Wherever they are. They meet some interested person and they go and they have a class in their home.
Prabhupāda: And he invites friends.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Still, even without language, without talking, if you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone will follow. And give them prasādam, they will take. And that will be good preaching. It doesn't require language or anything. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and give them nice prasāda. They will take. That will be good preaching. But who is chanting, he must be a sincere devotee. Then his chanting will be effective. A gramophone machine will not do. He must be realized, then his chanting will be effective. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). He must behave just like a pure Vaiṣṇava. Then if he chants, his chanting will be effective. Just like electricity. If I am surcharged with electricity, I touch, you also become electric. And if he touches, he'll become. But if one is not in touch with electricity, then it will not act. So one must be electrified. Then if he touches somebody, he'll be electrified. If there is no electricity, simply by touching, he'll not do.
Prabhupāda: And evaporation. Even the ocean can be evaporated by the air. So we have got this experience of the five or eight elements. They are physical because they are subjected to be cut into pieces, to be burned into fire, to be moistened, to be evaporated. But it is, soul is not affected. Then we have to think of—what is that. Therefore these scientists, they are puzzled. When the soul goes out of the body, they cannot imagine what thing is missing that the body is dead. Because they have physical ideas. But it is not physical. So everything is described. We have to study thoroughly and apply our brain. The brain must be sharp and finer tissues. Then spiritual understanding will be there. With dull brain, physical brain, we cannot understand. That is not possible. Therefore to spiritualize the brain, the senses, requires a process. Just like to keep a vegetable in frozen condition, it requires a process. Similarly, we have to undergo a process to come to this spiritual platform, to understand the spirit soul, the supreme being, God, and the relationship and the activities. We must adopt the process. And those who are adopting the process, they are making progress. Practical. So it is not impractical. Thousands of these Europeans and Americans, they, say, a few years ago, four, five years ago-say, at most ten years ago—they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. But now you ask them, they will explain. They are not foolish, they are not uneducated. So unless they are situated in the spiritual platform, how they are sticking? So there is process, and the process is practical. Anyone who adopts this process, he'll be able to understand. The process is meant for human being. Any human being who adopts this process will understand. So ask any one of them, these European, American boys, "Are you sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness sentimentally or understanding?" Ask them. They will explain, "Yes, understanding." Not blindly. Blindly one cannot stick—that is not possible. No, there is God, there is possibility to come in touch with God, there is possibility to serve Him directly, to see Him face to face, if we adopt the process.
Prabhupāda: It is association. Just like you came yesterday, you have come again. Similarly, if you come again and again, then you become one of them. Association. You understand, then you become one of them. If you remain in touch with the fire, then you become warm, warm, warmer, and then fire. That example I have given you, the iron rod. Put it in the fire, association, it becomes warm, warmer, and one day, iron. After few hours you'll see that the iron rod is red hot. It is no more iron; now it is fire. Association. By association one can become spiritualized. It is very important thing. We are opening so many branches all over the world with this purpose, to give the facility of association.
Ali: There are also so many masters now, so many.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Just like if you remain in touch with the fire, certainly you become warm. So if you remain always in touch with Kṛṣṇa, then you become Kṛṣṇized. Very easy. You haven't gone to the forest or Himalaya or meditate. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended in the śāstra: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). You cannot perform any severe austerities, penance. Wherever you remain, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And you become perfect. If not in one day... But you will become, if you continue chanting. And where is the difficulty? Where is the loss? And if there is some gain, why don't you try it? That is intelligence. I am not losing anything by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. If there is any gain, why not chant? Huh?
Prabhupāda: Stho hi.
Mahāṁśa: Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān.
Prabhupāda: On account of his being in touch with the material energy, he has to suffer or enjoy the modes of material nature. Modes of material nature. And because, just like in your medical science one is suffering from a certain type of disease on account of his being infected by the similar verus or..., what is called?
Ram Jethmalani: Anyway, I will be in touch with your Girirāja.
Prabhupāda: You take. We are speaking from the authoritative statements of Bhagavad-gītā. We are not manufacturing anything. That is not our business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we just received a letter from Pakistan. I thought you might be interested to hear along with Mr. Jethmalani. It describes some very interesting preaching that went on there. It is just a short paragraph if I could read it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's from your disciple Ātreya Ṛṣi.
Prabhupāda: Hm. He went there?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious ideal gṛhasthas. That we want. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. There are many. I was gṛhastha. There was Deity worship, everything nice. I was publishing Back to Godhead from gṛhastha. So aim was there. But I could not leave family life for some circumstances. That is a different thing. Must be in touch with the devotional service as in the temple. If live nearby temple, it is easier, or in the temple. But aloof, that is dangerous.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they live in the temple, then there's the problem of... You know.
Prabhupāda: No. Temple, he can take one room, pay for it. He wants to pay. That is also payment. And further, if he can pay, that's all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America, supposing a householder family pays for a room in our temple building. So they can have their sex life and family life?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do they do that?
Prabhupāda: You go, and if you are in touch on that tree, then you cannot get out. You'll die and you'll become dead.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They eat you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the tree.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They eat through the roots.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spider, big, big spider.
Gaurasundara: No. I think she's... I have heard that she's married again. But anyway, she has not been in touch with me.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Never mind. These are all material things. It should be more than that. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means forgetting material things, coming to Kṛṣṇa. Now forget your past misdeed and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness gradually. Deity worship is the first work, step. How many dresses you have prepared for the Deity? What is the name of?
Woman devotee: They each have twenty-two.
Gaurasundara: Twenty-two for Rādhā, twenty-two for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Ornaments?
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) Covering.
Śatadhanya: Yes, Prabhupāda. Do you like heavy cover? (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...(indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. He should not have come in touch, in the material qualities. And in Prema-vivarta it is said,
- kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare
- nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
So as soon as he forgets Kṛṣṇa and wants to enjoy life independently, that is guṇa-saṅga and falls down. It is falldown, this guṇa-saṅga. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte... (BG 13.22). What is that verse?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You know the verse?
Śatadhanya: Which one?
Prabhupāda: You can find out.
Prabhupāda: The... Except spirit, other things are superficial, but they are there. Prakṛti-stha. So his fault is to come in touch with the matter. Just like we are cleansing. The stool is also part of the body, but we are cleaning. Is it clear?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Stool is not required.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (pause) Yes, the example of the flower bud is nice. I can understand it better now.
Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. By association of pāpa-puṇya, he suffers or enjoys. When the enjoyment is finished, he again falls down with vṛṣṭi and... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Then, from water, again grows. Very troublesome business.