Group (Conv. 1977)

Expressions researched:
"group" |"group's" |"grouped" |"grouping" |"groups"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: The reason for the Mela is because there was some drops of nectar from the...

Prabhupāda: It is actually a religious conference. All the different groups, they gather in that holy place, and they propagate their philosophy, discussion, like that. India is country of religion. They know how spiritual life more important than this material life. That is India. Now they are diverting their attention to the material; otherwise whole India, they are for spiritual life. They don't care for material ... This material life is brought from Western countries, these railways, these..., so many things, bridges and so on, so on.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādam asac... He has to preach this Māyāvāda. He has to present himself in that way. Otherwise he is Vaiṣṇava. Māyāvādam asac-chāstraṁ pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate.

Dr. Patel: Pracchannam Buddha, Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Mayaiva vihitaṁ devi kalau brāhmaṇa-mūrtinā. (break)

Dr. Patel: The most important group in all Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇava-bhakti-sat-saṅga anyathā yānti vido apy adhaḥ.(?) Even well-versed man will come down if he does not understand. All the branches of Vaiṣṇavism, they give the same comment.

Prabhupāda: Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Without sat-saṅga, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (pause) Biragati, biranadi (?). (break) ...to me. (indistinct) Not personally, but the daughter of the, wife of the, the mother of the, that is right position. Just like Kunti, she was the mother of Vir, Arjuna's mother. Mm.

Indian Lady: Should I read what I have written?

Prabhupāda: Mm, hm.

Indian Lady: (reads a paper praising the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and describing activities of groups against the movement-much of this indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Actually you have seen in our Māyāpur there is no question Hindu, Muslim, everyone takes prasādam. There is no question.

Indian Lady: (continues reading)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4).

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is it possible to stop it? Or young men, if he says "No, no, I'm not going to..." but everyone wants that. Young man does not want to become old man, but by nature's law he has to become.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

So the idea is that after losing our own culture, we have become set of fools. This is the real conclusion. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We have become so lowest of mankind and mūḍha and full of sinful activities that we cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa says. This is real position. I am not speaking—Kṛṣṇa says. This is the sign. If one does not hear Kṛṣṇa, then he must be grouped in these categories: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. What is the value of their so-called education if they cannot understand the simple truth, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? What is the value of this education? Today I may be very big man, but I do not know that there is dehāntara. And what kind of deha I am going to get? Nobody has any knowledge, neither they're interested to cultivate. They have concluded that "After death, everything is finished." This is their education.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

D. D. Desai: One of the earliest days, when we had this group come to our neighborhood, Mrs. Desai and myself visited. They invite together. Swami Parvati-kanta had called that in Gupta House, Natinsi Road. So our house is adjacent. Bungalow is adjacent to it. So we were there, invited there, so we joined the group. Those all people came to our bungalow subsequently, and they had some program. Then Mrs. Desai served them some food...

Prabhupāda: Our program?

D. D. Desai: Yes, sir, Hare Kṛṣṇa program. They had a program, kīrtana. Then we enrolled as life member. I think that was about four years back. Swamiji from our Badranath, who is around this... Vina(?) Swami. He was there. He was saying that "Our people have forgotten our, this culture and this heritage, but people..."

Prabhupāda: Everyone says. It is purely Indian culture, and I am not getting any help from the government although they have got cultural department. Some dancing party will go; they'll pay. That is culture. And cultural knowledge is religion. This is the position. (Hindi) Real culture is neglected. And some dancing party in the name of culture will draw money and go.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. Kumbha Mela is sat-saṅga. If you go to Kumbha Mela to find out a man of knowledge, then your Kumbha Mela is right. Otherwise, yad-buddhiḥ śalile sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). If one thinks that this śalila, the water, to take bath in the water, is Kumbha Mela, he is a go-kharaḥ. But the real..., that "Now there are assembly of so many saintly persons. Let me take advantage of their knowledge." Then he is intelligent. (break) ...of highly learned saintly persons. People should take advantage.

Dr. Patel: To bring people together on discussion there are different groups, no?

Prabhupāda: Still, you can go to different groups of saintly person. Different groups means brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti (SB 1.2.11). There are some yogis, some jñānīs, some bhaktas. They are of the same category, little difference. Otherwise...

Dr. Patel: By different ways they have reached the same goal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti. Some of them are brahma-parāyana; some of them paramātma-parāyana; some of them are bhakta. It doesn't matter. But they're all spiritual. They have no interest in this material world. Tattva-vit. Tattva-vit. They know what is truth. They say that Kumbha Mela is... That spot is very sacred because Mohinī-mūrti brought the nectar there.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, there are good and bad every place. Most of them are... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). This is Kali-yuga.

Dr. Patel: But I have read some letters that some of the university professors of philosophy, many of them are in your favor.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, many. All intelligent, they are in favor. They're also grouping to defend us. They are also grouping.

Dr. Patel: That is more important. The fools may say anything, and dogs may bark.

Prabhupāda: One priest, very famous priest all over the world, is in our favor, Mr. Cox. Who is that?

Jagadīśa: Cox, yes.

Prabhupāda: He is determined to defend this movement.

Jagadīśa: From Harvard.

Prabhupāda: Harvard University.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's becoming more organized now. They have a Parents for Krishna group now.

Prabhupāda: Any sane man will appreciate. Why this father, mother, came to congratulate me? "Swamiji, you have done so..." It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that everyone be happy. They'll take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then?

Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man."

Prabhupāda: That's all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?

Devotee: Yes.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is their purpose?

Gurudāsa: Their purpose is feeding a small group of sādhus that are in that area who want to be far off. Ekadaṇḍi. And they feed... The prasādam is good, that they give. He was correct. They are giving capatis and dhal to everyone.

Prabhupāda: Eating must be very nice, clean.

Gurudāsa: Yes. And respectable. We'll do it. (break)

Prabhupāda: I thought we could save the expenditure. But that is not possible.

Gurudāsa: No, we wouldn't actually save so much because the time it would take for the devotees to go there to eat prasādam is three hours, and then the tents are not so good. It would mean a savings of six hundred or eight hundred rupees on tents, and it's completely impractical.

Prabhupāda: And besides that, the Māyāvādīs... Eh? Inconvenience.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All right.

Rāmeśvara: This is all based on the information received by various parent groups. "These people usually fear physical harm that may come to them and to their children who are in Hare Kṛṣṇa, as well as forcibly permanent separation from their children in Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is meaning, liberation. This is liberation, forcely separating from māyā. That they do not know. māyām etaṁ taranti te. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: "Hare Kṛṣṇa is known to hide out those whose families want them out."

Prabhupāda: Family?

Rāmeśvara: If the family wants them out, we have a reputation that we will hide them, so the family cannot get them. "One example is in the Queens case." That's Ādi Keśava Mahārāja. The charge of attempted grand larceny stems from an alleged extortion attempt against the Shapiro family by the temple leaders who wanted money from the parents and threatened to harm their son..."

Prabhupāda: This is false.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means in the name of justice, injustice is going on.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This law is unconstitutional. I mentioned that there is a group of lawyers who are now organizing a committee nationwide to defend us, and they're going to prove that this law should be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right cause. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They're already working on that. So then they say, "If you can do this to your son, then it will get national news media into the scene, and then people will learn about Hare Kṛṣṇa in particular, and all the effects of destructive cults on our youth." Then it says, "We have a legal packet which contains advice on the procedure and techniques for legal deprogramming."

Prabhupāda: So nowhere they have mentioned my name. That is good. (laughter) Otherwise, I would have been the target. That was very dangerous.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes... One of the general charges they make against all the different religious groups in America is that the leader is actually making a lot of profit for himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.

Rāmeśvara: But one recent development which will change that is that they have appealed to the government that they are an educational group. Therefore they should be tax exempt like any other educational organization, and the government has agreed. Now they have gotten their tax exemption, so now these parents can donate lots of... Different people will start donating lots of money to them as tax write-offs. So I think that we will see that their activities will be expanded this year, because now they are tax exempt, they'll get a lot of money.

Hari-śauri: That news article said that someone had given them $105,000. Some parents of a cult...

Prabhupāda: No, there are rich parents. They can do that. And every parent is unhappy. (chuckles)

Rāmeśvara: The fighting will increase this year. It's getting very acute, as you said in that letter.

Prabhupāda: So they are feeling the strength of Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is... Hare Kṛṣṇa—this name has become popular all over the...

Rāmeśvara: Yes. (to Gopāla?) You have experience. (laughs) The learned people in America are very concerned that we are being...

Prabhupāda: Harassed.

Rāmeśvara: ...harassed, and they are organizing groups to defend us. In Harvard University...

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Rāmeśvara: ...the biggest professors and theologians have organized now a nationwide committee to defend us.

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Rāmeśvara: And also the lawyers and psychologists are also organizing in their own fields nationwide committees just to defend us.

Prabhupāda: It is so much mercy from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted all these things. Unless there is... Kṛṣṇa became important when He killed so many demons, not lying down on the lap of Mother Yaśodā. And while He was on the lap of Mother Yaśodā, from that day He began to kill. He began to kill. And there was attack. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So even Kṛṣṇa was not exempted, what to speak of us. Prahlāda Mahārāja was not exempted. As soon as you speak of God, this opposition will come. Jesus Christ was crucified. So they are so kind they have not crucified me or my men. (laughs) Otherwise you have to expect all these things. Nityānanda Prabhu was personally injured. So these are the... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in twenty-two bazaars. This task is like that.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. When there is fight these things are studied. (Hindi) When there is fight there is no question of immoral or moral. "We must get victory," that's all. Kṛṣṇa did it. Kṛṣṇa asked...

Hari-śauri: According to this, they've made it legal, deprogramming. They're making it legal that they can hold a person by force until they break him mentally.

Jagadīśa: Rāmeśvara? Are there many of our devotees who've been deprogrammed, or are they mostly other groups?

Rāmeśvara: Mostly the others. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the business of the Book Trust has gotten very big. So the warehouse in Los Angeles has become too small. So we have gotten a new warehouse.

Prabhupāda: We have got a warehouse like Howrah Station.

Rāmeśvara: This is a picture of the new building.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Looks very nice.

Rāmeśvara: It's not yet completed. They are building it just for us.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Rāmeśvara: This is a picture of the side of the building. This truck holds 20,000 copies of Bhagavad-gītā. It's being unloaded into the warehouse.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Rāmeśvara: These are pictures of the inside as we are beginning to fill it up with books.

Prabhupāda: It is not yet filled up.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All right. You take rest. We shall go a little... (everyone leaves room) (break)

Hari-śauri: They've actually legalized it. There's one group, they're claiming that by deprogramming people they give him freedom of thought.

Prabhupāda: But you are... By deprogramming... They are thinking of Kṛṣṇa. You are checking. Where is the freedom of thought? Then you are illegal. They want to think of Kṛṣṇa, and you are checking. Then who is illegal? We have to put in that way, in their word, that "Then you have no right to check him about thinking of Kṛṣṇa." This will be our argument. Yes. How you can check? Let him think of Kṛṣṇa freely, because Kṛṣṇa wants. Then you have to take Bhagavad-gītā as illegal.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, if they condemn the whole thing, they have to condemn the whole, entire Hindu religion.

Prabhupāda: That's it. We have to fight in that way.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The real purport of Bhagavad-gītā is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful. (Hindi) If you take Bhagavad-gītā, the speaker of Bhagavad-gītā says this is the purpose: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ. That... Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhā duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ. "One who does not do that, he is sinful, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. And fool, rascal, narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind." He is chastising like that. So if you have got other purpose, that means you come to this group. Duṣkṛtino mūḍhā narādhamāḥ.

Guest (7): So about (Hindi) Ramakrishna Mission.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) But why do you take Bhagavad-gītā? You are free to do whatever you like. That freedom is given. Kṛṣṇa has given. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). That you have got. But when you speak of Bhagavad-gītā, then you speak what Kṛṣṇa wants.

Guest (7): You should take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You explain it but not interpret it.

Prabhupāda: There is no need of interpretation.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Explanation also not very much required because the explanation is already there, and we are not so intelligent that we can explain. But we take it, the words of the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). If we see that one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he comes to this group: duṣkṛtina, narādhamāḥ and mūḍha. That's all. This is our conclusion. We are fools and rascal. We take the words of Kṛṣṇa. He cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa on account of duṣkṛtina. Kṛti means he's doing something meritorious—but for bad purpose, duṣkṛtina. He is taxing his brain to do something, but against the will of Bhagavad-gītā. That is called duṣkṛtina. The purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or God. But if you are deviating them to become atheists, narādhamāḥ, then what is Bhagavad-gītā preaching? You preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So they take the Bhagavad-gītā for serving their purpose. Somebody was telling me that Dr. Radhakrishnan said that "If you take Bhagavad-gītā as..., Kṛṣṇa as God...," something like that, that they deny that Kṛṣṇa is God. This is Bhagavad-gītā preaching. God is speaking Himself-bhagavān uvāca. Vyāsadeva (Hindi). Vyāsadeva... Who can be better scholar than Vyāsadeva? Vidvān. He is recognized vidvān. Veda-Vyāsa. All ācāryas accept. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitā. So Vyāsadeva.... (Hindi) bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Cent percent, they are speaking something which is not the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) You can speak whatever you like. You have got that liberty.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Rāmeśvara: In history there is examples of small groups of people taking over a government because they are very intelligent and very well organized.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: And the mass of people did not believe in them, but still, they took over the government. Like in Russia.

Jagadīśa: But Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge...

Prabhupāda: In Russia, the mass of people aloof from this rascal theory.

Hari-śauri: They are not Communists, the mass of people. The Communist party itself is very small.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very small. By terrorism there will be, by terrorism.

Rāmeśvara: So when the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement becomes so powerful that it is in charge of the government, is it because of a small group of people or because of a mass?

Prabhupāda: It is due to quality of the leaders.

Rāmeśvara: But will it be like Russia where there is only a small group of people who are Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not that. The quality of the people will be changed.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: They may think. It is not the fact. It is a culture.

Rāmeśvara: For example, this group, this new record, Golden Avatar record...

Prabhupāda: That may be for a certain class.

Rāmeśvara: It can become very popular, but if they find out it is Hare Kṛṣṇa, they will think it is religion and they will not buy it. But if we do not mention that it is Hare Kṛṣṇa right at the beginning...

Prabhupāda: Either you mention or not mention, unless they realize that it is good...

Rāmeśvara: Well, that they'll realize when they hear it. Just like our book distributors. They're not dressing as Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees; therefore they are successful. As soon as the people see that they are Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, they do not want religion.

Prabhupāda: No... Suppose a military dress... Then there are different dresses. When it is understood properly, dress is immaterial. The military dress... Everyone knows that their business is to kill. That does not mean they are hated. Similarly, people see, and when they understand, that is the process.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: So do that. There is no need of accumulating money and pay income tax and botheration. Spend it. Always remain empty pocket.

Rāmeśvara: So I was thinking to develop this record group so we can make lots of money.

Prabhupāda: You make lots of money and spend lots of money. Don't keep it in the pocket. What is the use of keeping? No income.

Rāmeśvara: So our only interest is to spend it as fast as we get it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spend it for distribution. They'll say, "Kṛṣṇa, give us prasāda!" And that is our triumph. They chant and "Kṛṣṇa." That's all right. "Take prasāda."

Rāmeśvara: So I'm encouraging them to make more records like the "Change of Heart."

Prabhupāda: We are not dry, simply talking philosophy. "Take prasāda. Eat sumptuously."

Rāmeśvara: In America, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if people become followers of a particular music group, then they take their message and their life-style very seriously. Just like when the people were following the Beatles, and then the Beatles became involved with meditation, so this made it very popular in America. If the group becomes... If the music group becomes popular, then whatever they do, everyone follows. So I am thinking that we can make this music group, Golden Avatar, very popular. Then everyone will find out that they believe in reincarnation and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everyone will follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes, something "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" music must be there.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Now, to make this group very popular, they have to have Western dress.

Prabhupāda: Never mind.

Rāmeśvara: That's no problem.

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: And they have to have long hair or wigs, or else they grow it. But somehow or other, they cannot be shaven-headed Hare Kṛṣṇaś.

Prabhupāda: Long hair is not... We should not do that.

Rāmeśvara: They have to have wigs then.

Prabhupāda: Why wigs?

Rāmeśvara: Because in America all the musicians have hair, because that way people become attracted to them.

Prabhupāda: No, we cannot take hair. That is not possible. We cannot become hippies.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact.

Rāmeśvara: They are astonished at the..., the words to the songs.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Rāmeśvara: I think if this group is... If this is done...

Prabhupāda: Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāra lāgi. Our message is to kill the māyā. This is wonderful message, undoubtedly. Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāra lāgi, hari-nāma mahā-mantra lao tumi māgi: "Take this hari-nāma." It is very important message.

Rāmeśvara: In America, say a music group becomes popular, very popular. Then automatically, every time they make their record album, one million people will buy it in the stores without any salesmen. Automatically one million. It's considered very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So make records "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa."

Rāmeśvara: And for each record our profit is $2.50. So $2.50 times one million records becomes millions of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Spend it for prasāda distribution. Don't squander it. Every cent should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa, not for sense gratification.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: All these religious, what they call the religious cults, came immediately after the hippies. That's the big thing now. There was the growth period for those. Now they're trying to destroy them. Of course, they won't destroy us, but they've succeeded in one or two other groups. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...below one person.(?) In the name of religious men, because they are not civilized even, it is further, further. This is going on. Actually there was no such...

Rāmeśvara: And another thing that came out of the hippie movement is this abortion. Because the whole thing... The slogan was "free sex." So now they have free sex.

Hari-śauri: Women's liberation was another thing.

Rāmeśvara: All based on sex. Abortion, divorce—everything related to sex has increased.

Hari-śauri: They used to carry signs, "I want the control of my body," the women, the women's liberation.

Prabhupāda: That is woman's liberation.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then what to do?

Rāmeśvara: Well we have... I mentioned we have got these lawyers who want to start a nationwide organization to fight this law for us. So the head of this group is in San Francisco...

Prabhupāda: Now, the... Externally, it appears that anyone can be kidnapped simply by the certificate of the psychologist.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. That is the real point, that this is like Nazi Germany. This is insane. So because it is so anti-American, then many people who would not normally connect themselves with our movement are now coming forward to help us.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must. Otherwise the freedom is lost. Anyone can be kidnapped.

Rāmeśvara: That is what they are realizing, that this may not stop at just Hare Kṛṣṇa. They can kidnap anyone. That's our propaganda to get support.

Prabhupāda: Just like emergency.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Tax invention? What is that?

Rāmeśvara: They call themselves educational organizations. They are educating the public because they do speaking engagements at colleges and different places. So on the basis of that, they applied to the federal government, "Please, we are just an educational group. You must give us tax exemption." So they have been given that. Now people can donate money to them. Instead of paying taxes to the U.S. government, they can donate money to them in exchange for paying taxes. (laughs) So the fighting will get more...

Prabhupāda: Intense.

Rāmeśvara: This year, definitely. But that means more propaganda for us, more publicity.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (chuckling)

Rāmeśvara: And I look forward to it, because we'll smash them in each confrontation. They now realize that when they have a debate against us, they always lose. We have had maybe five or six confrontations in Los Angeles on television and on the radio, and every time they lose. And every time they go away like this.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You can keep there under the bath section. I'll wash there.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Big temple means at least fifty men.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Gargamuni: But I know there'll be no problem getting people there. It's real nice.

Rāmeśvara: The thing is if we start off, gradually, as the construction is going on, if there's a group of people that are working there, maybe some local people will join us too.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. We'll get local men to join.

Rāmeśvara: So who will make that their...? That's the real question. Who will sit there?

Gargamuni: I'll stay. I'll stay. Important project.

Prabhupāda: Coconut tree can grow.

Gargamuni: Yes. And I think cashew. These cashews they also grow.

Prabhupāda: Cashew. And jao.

Gargamuni: What is Jao?

Prabhupāda: What is called, jao? This fiberlike bricks. That is grown very...

Hari-śauri: Some kind of a fruit?

Prabhupāda: No fruit. Evergreen. It is called evergreen.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They personally came. And many fathers came to Los Angeles to give me thanks. "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that you have come." They said like that.

Gargamuni: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's also another program which I think requires some financial assistance, is this boat program. In one month they sold ten thousand books, a group of ten men. And they go to so many villages. And I think if we can get a mechanized boat, a larger boat, they can go to so many places which usually takes so much time, because generally for them...

Prabhupāda: Mechanized means...

Gargamuni: A diesel engine.

Prabhupāda: Then you'll require mechanics. You cannot ply or..., independently. If some mechanical wrong is there, then you are...

Gargamuni: No, we have our own men who service our vehicles. They know diesel engine.

Prabhupāda: So there is no objection, but too much mechanical means you have to depend. You consider that.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: "To estimate the average church attendance in 1976, surveys..." Oh, this just tells you how they took the survey. "So analysis of these figures shows that church attendance is up among all major population groups. The Catholics are better attendees than the Protestants. Women go more often than men." Women go more often than men in America. "Southerners and the Mid-Western"—from the South and the Mid-West—"they attend more frequently than they do in the East, and far more than those living in the West." So this says that people in the West, like California, they're the least religious. People in the East, like New York and Pennsylvania, they're a little more religious, and people in the Mid-West and the South, they're the most religious according to this survey. "Those who are under thirty years of age are less likely to go to church than those who are thirty and over." Younger people... Same trend, giving up...

Prabhupāda: They come to us.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: If you can make brahmacārī, brahmacārīni separate, each room can accommodate fifteen men. Very high.

Rāmeśvara: You may remember the property in Los Angeles. Right next to the temple there are these groups of stores. There's a Mason Temple. There's the karate place. Then there's a laundromat, then a meat restaurant, barber shop. So we have just bought half of the block.

Prabhupāda: Acchā? Which side?

Rāmeśvara: Furthest away from us. We purchased the laundromat...

Prabhupāda: Mason? Mason?

Rāmeśvara: No. That they will not sell yet. The other side. But including that meat restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Then they have to go?

Rāmeśvara: Well, now we are the landlords. They have got still a lease agreement which we now inherited. So they are paying us rent.

Prabhupāda: The washerman also?

Rāmeśvara: Yes. So we have the choice...

Prabhupāda: And this man. (sic:) karadri?

Rāmeśvara: No. Stopped just before karate. The only thing left is the karate...

Prabhupāda: And the Mason.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: You were saying that last night in your talk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is required. But he must be a Vaiṣṇava. That's all. Actually none of us belong to any group. They are servant of Kṛṣṇa, and for Kṛṣṇa's sake he can act as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya or a śūdra. It doesn't matter. It is all Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like he is giving massage. That does not mean he's a śūdra. This is actual śūdra's business, servant. But he's not a śūdra. Similarly, we can act for Kṛṣṇa in any position. We do not belong to this material occupation or platform. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). This is to be dwelled on.(?) He's above all this nonsense. Brahma-bhūyāya means liberated. Jīvan-mukta sa ucyate. Jīvan-mukta means he may act in this life as a kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa, śūdra. It doesn't matter. But he's liberated. He's not going to take birth again. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). A śūdra cannot get that position. So try to understand our philosophy thoroughly and distribute it. Janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra. At least nobody can defeat our philosophy in the whole world. That position we have.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: I told him this. He was interested. He was. But he told me, "Under the present..." The CIA used to give money to certain groups to stop Communism, he said, but recently they have been under investigation for this, so he said it would be very dangerous for them to do such a thing now. But he said he would talk it over. Since then, though, I have not met him. This was at the time when we were called CIA in Calcutta, when it came in the papers. I went to them for advice because they also became very much upset because just before that, the Consulate with his wife came to Māyāpur and saw all of our activities. They were very impressed. And they printed this in the newspaper, trying to show that the Consulate General was also an agent along with Bhavānanda. So he became very angry. He became very angry that they should try to make this up. He said, "Actually I had personally... My wife wanted to come, but I was not so much interested. But because my wife came, I came also. But I don't see why they are trying to link me along with your society as CIA." He said, "This is very bad." And from what I know, they made a formal complaint to the Home Minister of West Bengal, the Home Secretary.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Pradyumna: I think they were more scared of the violence.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: The blacks started groups in terrorism.

Prabhupāda: And then, then... (Bengali) It may be taken as a... Who cares.

Guest (1): This nonviolence is just put in the head of the others.

Prabhupāda: No, nobody cares for this non... (break) That is not, that India has no kṣatriya spirit. Very good kṣatriya spirit. But it was not organized. That is the difference of opinion between Gandhi and Subash. He wanted to organize it.

Guest (1): That's... But Gandhiji knew actually it's not possible to organize this violence in India, because the people are not of that nature.

Prabhupāda: No, everything has got. Just like Subash Bose organized outside.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Bhuvaneśvara, Jagannātha Purī. They are important places. So give him prasāda first, and then come.(?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We had a meeting before I came here...

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...in Washington with Rūpānuga Prabhu and the other scientists in our group for the Institute. So I have some papers to be signed by Your Divine Grace. So you'll read in the morning? Tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have started one institute, Bhaktivedanta Institute?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And I want to show several aspects of our journal, Sa-vijñānam. We have almost completed the first volume.

Prabhupāda: They are publishing one paper, Sa-vijñānam. How do you like this name? Sa-vijñānam. This is picked up from Bhagavad-gītā. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ. Sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2). Sa-vijñānam means according to science. So did you see...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have some designs about the covers of the first issue. We wanted to show to Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think I have here.

Prabhupāda: We are challenging scientists that "Life cannot be produced by chemicals only. Life comes from life." They're all big, big chemists. There is another Ph.D. Another M.A.C., M.A.C., this Oriya, Faree(?). He can also join.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: No, but many groups, they are dressing as Santa Claus.

Hari-śauri: It's traditional.

Gargamuni: And people are more inclined to take your book or gift if it is Santa Claus during that time.

Prabhupāda: So for selling we can take any trick.

Gargamuni: Yes, they all do it. In Macy's department stores...

Prabhupāda: It is a salesman's trick. That is allowed everywhere. If I can sell more books by some trick, I must take that. That is salesman's trick.

Hari-śauri: All the big department stores, they have Santa Claus.

Gargamuni: They bring their own Santa Claus, and they give away small gifts just to encourage the people to buy big gifts. It's a big racket they have inside the department stores.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In fact, Rūpānuga Prabhu abandoned completely the idea of this Santa Claus in Washington while we were having our meeting. Stayed about a few days. And then he had this telephone call from distance, from outside saying that "Tomorrow I'll shoot you. I'll kill you," things like that. They get this telephone call in the temple from outsiders, "If you come like that, in Santa Claus, we'll give you a bullet," like that. So Rūpānuga completely abandoned this idea. So he said, "Tell what we are, be honest, and do as we have been doing." And in fact, devotees are doing, and they got more the next morning, got more books sold just going as Hare Kṛṣṇa, in Hare Kṛṣṇa dress, instead of going as Santa Claus. So I think...

Prabhupāda: So now it is stopped.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is also another foolishness. How much water he'll carry by pipe? (aside:) Where is pole. Take water from God. That is sufficient. Navadit tarims ca.(?) When there is water supplied by God, where there is no need of water there will be water. Just like on the hills, on the mountains, there is no need of water. In the ocean there is no need of water. But the God... "All right, take water here also." That is God's gift. You rascal, how much water you have got that you transport by pipe and this and that...? All rascals. Mūḍha. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. That is my language, always these are all rascals. Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion. They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent. You are so educated." Not human being. Just like dog receives his master, "Gow, gow, gow, gow." (makes growling sounds) So what is that reception, dog's reception? Similarly, these intelligent men are intelligent amongst a class of men who are compared with dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. If some man praises them that "You are so big. You are so big leader," he's also amongst this group. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. This is grave thing. Let understand it, that anyone who is godless, who has no idea what is God, he is a rascal. Immediately take him that he's a rascal. He may be prime minister, he may be president, he may be scientist, but we shall take him as rascal number one. This is our first understanding. Bokā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, bokā. So at that time I was thinking, "Everyone is bokā?" (laughing) Guru Mahārāja says, "Everyone..." "Even Rabindranath Tagore, he is also bokā?" Later on I could under..., "Yes. Everyone is bokā."

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is philosophy. Philosophy is the science of science. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). The science of science.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

So try it, to educate these rascal, world of rascals. Take it that this world of rascals. Don't give them any credit. Unless he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, don't give any credit. Then you become a rascal. Just like the same example as it is given in the SB.., that one dog, one camel, one ass, one hog is praising a lion. So does it mean the lion is not animal? He may be a big, rascal animal, and he is praised by these small rascals. So here the big rascal is being praised by small rascal. That's all. But they're all rascals. We are seeing the praising group and the man who is praised—both of them are rascals. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). We don't give them any credit. They may be angry upon us that we do not give anyone credit. But that is our business. We take them all rascals. That our... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvataḥ (SB 5.18.12).

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: If they want to be reformed, we can reform them. On the basis of Bible, we can reform them. There is no difficulty.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Most of my disciples they are coming from the Christian group. They can reform. Chanting is also recommended in the Bible, the glories of the Lord. I do not know why these rascals, Protestant... That means... The Protestant means last class. Why they should protest against Jesus law? Protestant means that. They protested. Is it not?

Hari-śauri: I'm not sure about... I don't know much about the history of Protestants.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That King John, who started this Protestant movement? Some king in England.

Hari-śauri: Yes, it was started like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was forbidden not to divorce his wife.

Hari-śauri: That was the Church of England, Henry the VIII.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, Henry the VIII. He started this Protestant.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, Henry the VIII. He started this Protestant.

Hari-śauri: He was excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

Prabhupāda: But this...

Hari-śauri: So he started the Church of England.

Prabhupāda: ...Protestant group was started by him.

Hari-śauri: I don't know anything about their history.

Prabhupāda: That is the history.

Hari-śauri: There's always been fighting between the Protestants and the Catholics though.

Prabhupāda: Well, fighting must be there. They protested.

Hari-śauri: There's so many Christian sects.

Prabhupāda: There are many. Means they don't want anything genuine. Something imitation. What is the cause of fighting, this Ireland? Unnecessarily. It is going on in Europe since long time. In France it was very terrible fight. I have seen that Church. They would bell, and they'll come and fight Protestant. You have been there? No. Concord. It is... That place is called Concord. So history there is a building, church. The Catholics would come and kill the Protestants. The Joan of Arc.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We want that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was taking up on his own so many civil rights cases. He's a fighter for individual freedom.

Prabhupāda: Not only that. He should be convinced that "Here is a good mission for the human society."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are some very big persons now who have formed a group for the protection of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. And these men have specifically stated that it must be only for the protection of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, not others. They don't want to fight on behalf of any other movement. Specifically this movement. Because they are convinced of the philosophy of this movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes that is good. No, others, they are all bogus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are realizing that.

Prabhupāda: They're bogus.

Brahmānanda: They were trying to decide what to call the name of this group, something like "Concerned Citizens for the Protection of Hare Kṛṣṇa Devotees," something like that. So some of our own...

Prabhupāda: No, no. "To protect the Human Rights." Keep this name. What is human right? That we can explain. The human right is: here is an opportunity to understand God. So this society is giving that knowledge. If you don't give the human being the right of understanding God, then he's animal. You keep him as animal. The animal doesn't require, neither it is capable of understanding what is God, what is his relationship with God, what is his duty. He cannot understand. It is the only human being who can understand. And if you keep him in ignorance like dogs and hogs, that's a great harm to the human society. He got the opportunity. You don't give him; you withdraw the opportunity. What kind of civilization? By nature's way you have come to the position of understanding why you are suffering, how this material nature is working. "I am eternal. Why I am undergoing birth and death?" If you do not understand this problem, then what is the value of this human life. Eating, sleeping, mating—that is done by the animals. And this modern civilization, keeping them in ignorance, that "Eating, sleeping, better style of eating, and that is advancement. And that is also not better style. Eating meat, keeping slaughterhouse—is that better style of eating?

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. He has got good engagement. (break) ...his magazine.

Hari-śauri: Everybody that comes buys a magazine and a Bhagavānera Kathā.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavānera Kathā.

Hari-śauri: I was watching from the roof on Sunday. There were hundreds of visitors coming all through the day. And practically every group that went out, they were all... They had a magazine and a Bhagavānera Kathā and Gītārgāna.

Prabhupāda: Gītārgāna. Good field. And similarly, our Hindi. You have seen our Hindi?

Brahmānanda: Yes. What is that, Bhagavāne...?

Bhavānanda: Bhagavānera Kathā.

Prabhupāda: These are my old articles.

Hari-śauri: What Prabhupāda used to write in that magazine.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavānera Kathā, Bhakti Kathā.

Bhavānanda: The next one is Bhakti Kathā.

Prabhupāda: I was reading. It is done nice.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, then the authorities are, mean, determined to stop this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. It's a dangerous position. This is actually is dangerous position, because they are very powerful. There are many lobbying people. In other words, there are big groups of Christian, Jewish groups. They are especially active because they see that these other movements, not only ours, are taking the young people away from their religions. So they are actively collecting money and giving it to the deprogrammers. They are supplying funds. Just like one man gave this Phoenix, Arizona, center a donation of a hundred thousand dollars to set up their center for taking these young people. And they are internationally organized. They have big centers all over the world now.

Brahmānanda: London, France, Australia, South America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Canada, Australia. The problem is that... Actually it's a fact that many of these groups are bad. They're cheating. Of course, ours is not, but because they're not very intelligent, they cannot see the distinction. Probably as a result of this court case, we will make them aware that now the other groups are bogus but we are not. That they'll have to admit. That will be the effect. But at least up until now we are being lumped in with these other bad groups. Cults, they call them. But it's a very dangerous thing. Therefore the lawyers and all of the scholars and intelligentsia of the United States is very alarmed that this is a great treading on human rights. This is a great danger to human rights because the Fifth Amendment of the... The First Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. But according to these laws that they want to pass, a parent can say, "It is not a question of religion. My son has become abnormal." So who is to say what is religion and what is abnormal? They are saying, "This is not religion." So we have to prove, "No, this is... Hare Kṛṣṇa is a religion." Otherwise they are saying this is abnormal. Now, just... Our lawyer has pointed out that if you say that the devotees' preaching is brainwash, then you must say that every single Christian priest who preaches, he is also brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You must condemn all preaching. So this is against the Amendment, the Constitutional First Amendment. So there is a big Constitutional case. This court case has great interest to all the people who are into civil right and things in the United States because it is testing the freedom of religion. It's a test case. It's the biggest test case of this decade in the United States. And the American Civil Liberties Union is taking this up as their main..., one of their main points of fighting now. All over the United States they're defending. Of course, there are many groups also who are insisting, "We will fight, but only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are not going to align ourselves with a general group." They wanted to give a name, as Brahmānanda was saying. And they insisted that it must include the Hare Kṛṣṇa. The name of our organization must include the word Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Brahmānanda: This is a group of scholars and intelligent people who want to help Hare Kṛṣṇa, in other words, friends of Hare Kṛṣṇa. So actually it was some of our devotees, they suggested that the name of this group should not say Hare Kṛṣṇa. It should say, "Friends of God conscious people," or something like that, because they thought the word Hare Kṛṣṇa makes some negative...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Reaction.

Prabhupāda: But Hare Kṛṣṇa is religion.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Money. Unless he makes devices and talks very overintelligently, how he'll get money? Just like the so-called scientist says and doctor says, big, big jugglery of words, and they get money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have their doctors and psychiatrists now. Just as we are getting armed with so many statements, they are also gathering together their groups of doctors and psychiatrists to all attest to the fact. But they have nothing to say. They're trying to get behind them some men, but the men are not of as much consequence as our people are. But then you see another thing they do is they cause trouble through other processes. For instance, they will audit the accounts, look into the Society's money, and they'll try to...

Prabhupāda: They'll try to give us trouble in so many ways.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many ways. So we have to be very careful.

Brahmānanda: Did you hear in Argentina?

Hari-śauri: Yes, a little bit. Just that we've been banned.

Prabhupāda: What happened?

Brahmānanda: They have banned our Society and also Guru Maharaj-ji.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And jehovah's Witnesses.

Brahmānanda: Because these societies go against the Argentine culture, morals, and nationhood.

Prabhupāda: So we have to close.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: They have formed a group, the deprogrammers, called "Return to Personal Choice."

Prabhupāda: By force. (laughter) This is personal choice?

Ādi-keśava: This is a picture of them returning someone to their personal choice. This is a manual.

Prabhupāda: "I force you. You accept this"—your personal choice.

Ādi-keśava: That is them returning someone to personal choice. You see them dragging them off.

Brahmānanda: That's the mother.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the mother, the father and the kidnappers.

Prabhupāda: This is personal choice.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. They influence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And then they get these local men to come together in groups and try to pass laws. So it's not simply that the... But there is more and more now a feeling amongst the government members towards..., favorable to the deprogrammers and against the cults on account of the cheating nature of the other cults. So there's definitely...

Prabhupāda: They should be.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's definitely... The sentiment is definitely against us and for the deprogrammers amongst government leaders. It's not in our favor. There's no doubt about it. The courts are definitely against us, and the government is also. It's serious.

Prabhupāda: So what can we do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we have to do exactly what what we are doing.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More vigorously.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's it. And the Hyderabad report, that English education, they are inclined. There are so many here. That's not very good idea. As soon as they get English education...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll leave. So we should not encourage that at all. I think it's different than here.

Prabhupāda: No, their attention should be in chanting. And produce their own food, agriculture. And as soon as they get English education, then... Not "as soon as," but not all of them are fit for being educated. It is not possible. They are śūdra class of men. What he will be educated? Śūdra, vaiśya, they should learn how to plow, how to produce food. They are thinking otherwise, that "Plowing is great labor. If we educate our boys in English, they can go to the city. Immediately they get some..."

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That they have already taken. (converses with man in Bengali) (break) When there is fight, fight is fight. They'll take their tactics; we shall take our tactics.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can see which groups are alarmed—the parents, the rabbis, and the priests.

Prabhupāda: They should be alarmed. If Hare Kṛṣṇa movement goes on, then their culture will be finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was one newsletter they had where they published, "Now our main enemies..." And they listed who the enemies are. They listed Rāmeśvara's name, Ādi-keśava's name, Kīrtanānanda's name. "These are dangerous enemies," they said.

Prabhupāda: Enemy must be always dangerous. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said that "Don't take enemy leniently. Always think of him as dangerous." If you want to deal with enemy, you should always take him as very dangerous. Where is that sweet water? Sweet, that miśri?

Hari-śauri: You want sweet water?

Prabhupāda: Where is that miśri? No, we have to fight. Devise means, ways, how to fight. That's all. But try to prove that they have no brain. Actually that is the fact. Nobody has brain, especially in this age. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Mūḍha means one who has no brain. Mūḍha, this word, applies to the ass, because ass has no brain. He works so hard for little grass, which is available everywhere. But still, he thinks that "This washerman is giving me grass." Therefore mūḍha. He'll stand at the door of the washerman whole day, eating little grass, which he can get anywhere. So that is mūḍha. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Bas. And anyone who is a mūḍha, he does not know Kṛṣṇa. So so long we do not know Kṛṣṇa, we shall remain mūḍha-ass. That's the fact.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that you have to explain, what is that transcendental knowledge. So what is to be done now if they're taking our boys by force?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there's two things. One thing is that from our side we have to explain that they have no brains. That we have to preach. And from the other side, all of these other professional groups who are helping us, they have to counteract what these deprogrammers are doing by lobbying in Congress and all the other legal means. We cannot do that, but they have position; they can do that. So we should inspire them to do that.

Ādi-keśava: For every letter that the deprogrammers write to some Congressmen, they have to write a letter. For every speech that the deprogrammers give, they must give a speech. That is the only way it will work. Just like they applied to the Catholic Church to speak in the classes of the Catholic Church about cults and deprogramming. So now we have also had our people apply to the Catholic Church that we can also speak in their classes in favor of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: So then you have to go?

Ādi-keśava: But they have to do it because they will listen to the professionals. They won't listen to us. They say, "You just want to talk your religion." But if a professional man, a big professor, comes in and says, "I can tell you..."

Prabhupāda: We have got so many professor friends. There is Dr. Stillson Judah, Dr. Sukla. There are so many.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he knows about, anything about Caitanya, why should he say like that? Bogus temple. By attempting to establish a temple like that, he has diminished his value. And therefore it is doubtful whether he actually obtained this. Now, our Bon Mahārāja also writes "Doctor."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purchased title. These deprogrammers are doing very active campaign work by getting entry into the schools, the public schools, to speak to the children in the age groups of twelve, between twelve and fifteen, junior high school, high school age. And they're making presentations to them about these different groups like ours, to beware of our groups. To beware of our groups. In other words, it's actually very bad because these children are innocent, and from a very young age now they're being told, "Watch out for the Hare Kṛṣṇas. They will brainwash you." Of course, that makes us even more appealing.

Prabhupāda: That is our advertisement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because when a young man, when a child is told by his... When a child is told by his parents, "Don't do something..."

Prabhupāda: They'll do it.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.

Ādi-keśava: Right. Another thing is that this group, they are very organized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got money.

Ādi-keśava: They have big money. I can show you in this book. We made one chart of their organization.

Hari-śauri: Page fifteen, seventeen.

Ādi-keśava: It shows that they have a big organization. See, they have all these committees. And there's a lot of money involved. There are a lot of people with big money. Starting at the top, they've made a national organization. I know all these men. I've spoken to all these people. They're big demons, but they have a lot of money, so they're fighting us in all the different courts. But so far they have not taken it beyond the lower courts. When we take it to the higher courts we always win. For instance, just before I left, we took two cases to the Federal Court. Immediately we won. In one day they gave us the case. My case is in a very low court. If it goes to a high-court we will win. So we are wanting to do this, but that means again that if we were to do it, only certain lawyers can enter into the Federal Court. Not just any lawyer can argue there, because you have to have some...

Prabhupāda: So you have to pay. What can be done?

Ādi-keśava: So if you're willing to do that, I will do it.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Give me.

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad. So rather than... There are some devotees who are saying we should stand together in an alliance with them. But every time I am asked in the press or anything, I say the same thing again, "No. We have nothing to do with them. We have nothing..." Because I am afraid that we will be dragged down with them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has been under pressure from various groups, and this judgment is expected to stop some of the harassment to which it has been subjected in recent months."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very good.

Prabhupāda: So you purchase some copies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. This is yesterday's Times of India from Bombay. When we get to Bombay we'll go to their office. We can buy back issues, I think. I don't know... I'll find out who... Abhirāma gave me this. "Published from Bombay, Delhi, and Ahmedabad."

Prabhupāda: Now we have got a sound position.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe it's in some other... I have the Sunday Statesman.

Prabhupāda: In the first page they have given, eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. First page of Times of India.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is called mora mera gale.(?) To call a man by ill names, the last word is "You die."

Pañcadraviḍa: But it is not just us. The government threw out the Pentacostals, the jehovah's Witnesses, the Children of God, Guru Maharaj-ji's group, us. It's a very fascist government and very pro-Catholic. Now also we have heard that they have passed one law that nobody in the country is allowed to keep a beard. And the Jews, they all keep beards there because they're very orthodox Jews. Part of their religion, they don't cut the hair. So now no keeping beards, that's also even against the Jews. There are several million Jews. The government is very difficult to work with. When we went to the Ministry to ask them about this, they said they could not do nothing. The Ministry already, some people there were talking, "No, this government is very destructive. The next government will be more constructive. You try when the next government comes." So this is the way they talk down there. They change governments very often.

Brahmānanda: There's also a lot of German influence there. When the Nazis left Nazi Germany they all went to Argentina.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hṛdayānanda: Now every day they are killing so many people. It's become a very dangerous place. In the streets every day they are shooting so many people.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's Jayatīrtha.

Pañcadraviḍa: Actually, though, we are learning something. We have to work with these kind of people more and more in different countries.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is very fine, but there is no Bhāgavata?

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So these are the recommendation how we wash brain.

Rāmeśvara: "As you can imagine, it is not every community group who is able to work with these people so well as you. The staff and clients will welcome you back any time you care to arrange another visit! Again we thank you for your wonderful party and for all your thoughtfulness and concern which made it possible." This woman is from the governor's office, and we go now every week to these different state institutes. We've gotten so many different letters from them. And this one is from the state hospital for prisoners, Camarillo. It's the most notorious in America. And it says, "This letter is to thank you for the interest and service that you have given to Camarillo State Hospital and our patients. It was a pleasure to provide an orientation program for your group on Saturday, January 29th. I hope to see many more members attend the orientation classes which are scheduled for February. I hope to be hearing from you soon." This is also from the governor's office. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Leave, I don't mind. Just like he became a big scholar.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāi.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi, he's a rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big rascal.

Prabhupāda: I think that Jagannātha is within his group? Nitāi?

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha was somewhat affected by Nitāi, but he's...

Prabhupāda: I know that.

Rādhā-vallabha: I think he understands what the problem was. I think he understands what his problem was, and that's why he won't do anything without asking you.

Prabhupāda: Don't allow him to do anything.

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, now that this system of no corrections anywhere, that makes it very simple. Then he can't do anything. I don't think he wants to, either. It makes it more simple for him. It makes him very uncomfortable.

Prabhupāda: No corrections. He can write that synonym, that's all, according to the translation. Who is writing the synonym?

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Satsvarūpa: The GBC man must be responsible and implement in their zone Śrīla Prabhupāda's maintenance fund—there was some neglect.

Prabhupāda: So what is my maintenance? Two cāpāṭis, that's all. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: This is a special fund, Prabhupāda, for paying for any travel plane fare for the whole group that travels with you.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Satsvarūpa: Resolved: All properties purchased, even those personally transacted by GBC members, should be cleared through the property committee. The property committee will add Rāmeśvara Mahārāja along with Jayatīrtha for the US.

Rāmeśvara: We were already on it. Both of us were on it.

Prabhupāda: And here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about in India, Prabhupāda wants to know.

Rāmeśvara: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's already a member of the property committee, and he'll be in India unless Prabhupāda sends him.

Jayatīrtha: Should anyone else be added in India?

Prabhupāda: Property committee means the GBC and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Resolved: Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa's group in New Zealand and Siddha-svarūpānanda Swami in Hawaii should pay the same price for BBT books as the temples in the ISKCON, not less, as they are paying now. It is well known that these groups preach actively against ISKCON. In response, although we should point out their philosophic defects, we should not directly confront them but remain aloof from...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, no fighting with them.

Prabhupāda: This is to give them chance. They are chanting. Some way or other, keep them alive.

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And here is one philosopher also. He knows perfectly well English, Sanskrit, Vedas. Where is he? I don't find him.

Dhanañjaya: Prem Yogi.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is in his room.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: About five will be ideal. The biggest group will be too expensive, and sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, make five.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, five.

Prabhupāda: Recruit two others and make it at least five, and travel all over the world. All institutions, all universities, all scientists. If you have got commodity, deliver. It is not a bluff, gold manufacturing. It is not that. Actual fact. That day, your presentation was very nice. Any scientist will be convinced by such presentation, learned speeches. So now at least five men, and estimate what will be the expenditure. I shall arrange. Don't worry.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Science is for everyone. There is no such thing as Communist science. "Two plus two equal to four," that is both for the Communists and capitalists. That's a fact. Because I am Communist, I cannot say "Two plus two equal to five." It is four. So science means fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That theatrical group will also be popular in Communist countries. That drama group will also be popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, drama group also. That is from artistic side. And from scientific side. And gradually we are making Bombay as the headquarters. So occasionally you come and go, and if possible tackle these men and find money to be spent.

Guru dāsa: Yes, visa.

Prabhupāda: We are doing with so many temples. That is Indian property.

Guru dāsa: Yes. Now I think I should go and see a bigger man than him.

Prabhupāda: At least give permanent residence for one hundred men. Then we can manage.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Ādi-keśava Mahārāja has at least a couple hundred letters from people in groups in India, from Vṛndāvana, all over the country. I think I could send him a copy of this article and he could send a thank—you letter along with this article to each of them, thanking them for their help. They appreciate it, coming from America, that the president of the New York center himself wrote them.

Gargamuni: I just returned from Calcutta, and they are expecting you to arrive tomorrow morning by plane.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: In Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gargamuni: Because they said that when you left Calcutta that you would come back within two weeks, on April 4th, to Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Well, because I was going to Manipur.

Gargamuni: So I told them that as far as I know there was no plan of Your Divine Grace...

Prabhupāda: No, because Manipur has not supplied. Otherwise, it was program that I shall come back, and after I shall go to Manipur.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So what you are to go? Where you want to go?

Girirāja: So what I was thinking, if you agree, is to go to Delhi for a few days, and he could introduce me to the pious members of Parliament, and then we could organize a whole group, and I could bring them there.

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats' and dogs' race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gītā. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may... There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed. No. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). They do not know how nature's law is working.

Gargamuni: These breezes are very nice here, better than, I think, in Māyāpur. Many breezes.

Prabhupāda: The sea breeze.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Because they are so poor that they cannot purchase diamond. But diamond must be there. They are so poor-hearted, their education has been so poorly given that they cannot understand.

Mr. Koshi: Poorly given.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That "You are this body, jump like cats and dogs," that's all. What is nationalism? This is, that "You are this body. Jump like cats and dogs." A group, as a group of crows gather together, caw caw caw caw. That has been taught. Make group and crow.

Mr. Koshi: Something is wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You don't find this word "nationalism" in the Bhagavad-gītā. You don't find it. Can you find out this word? These are all borrowed words.

Mr. Koshi: And what is your alternative?

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? We are preaching internationalism, everyone welcome. Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being done. Real United Nations. Here is Christian, here is Jew, here is African, here is Muhammadan, everything. Worldwide. That is real United Nations. They have no conception. If they would thought that "I am American," then why he is after a poor Indian man? Indians are known outside India as poverty-stricken, and that's a fact. So why he should come to the person born of poverty-stricken nation? But actually we are not poverty-stricken. If we cultivate our own standard of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, then we are the richest and we can give the whole world the gift. That should be... And they will welcome. That will be glorified if they accept. Just see. This is our... I am trying for that.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because they have been taught like that.

Mr. Koshi: Taught to receive, not to give.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have been taught to become group of dogs and crows. That's all. These political party.

Mr. Koshi: You are against politicians.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not against, neither for. But these things will go on. This is going on since the creation, but that will not help. There have been, in other countries there has been Napoleon, there has been Hitler, there has been Mussolini, there has been Churchill. In India also we had many leaders like Gandhi and others. So what contribution they made? People are suffering.

Mr. Koshi: But you yourself were involved in some of the movements.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not movement, it is knowledge. It is not artificial movement. It is knowledge, real knowledge, that you are not this body. You are not this machine. It is knowledge. It is meant for everyone. But you take an artificial movement. It is not. It is knowledge. And it is your duty to give knowledge to the people. If you have got any knowledge... All scientists do like that. It is not movement. When a scientist goes all over the world, he gives about his discovery, it is not movement. It is scientific knowledge. Movement is you create something and make your followers. That is movement. It is not like that. It is scientific knowledge that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are fortunate, they will accept it. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Find out this verse. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, but we are neglecting. Allah... We are getting photograph(?) in Bhagavad-gītā. This is... Actually understand Bhagavad-gītā and distribute the knowledge. That is our aim.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The fundamental principle is that we are teaching about the owner of the body.

Mr. Koshi: Yeah, but what we are in the outside world... I am not in the Society. What I see outside is totally... You see, when I see a group of young people like these boys here dancing in the street, it is something jarring to my eyes. I am not used to it. What is the necessity for the chant and the...

Prabhupāda: That is going on. One man's food, another man's poison.

Mr. Koshi: No, no, there is a purpose behind it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Purpose... That is the way. That is the way.

Mr. Koshi: To?

Prabhupāda: To spiritual understanding in this age. Ecstasy. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). You have to follow the Vedic injunctions. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Utkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau.

Mr. Koshi: So by looking at him you are trying to rouse the interests of the people, or curiosity?

Prabhupāda: You can take interest in so many ways. If you are not interested in that way, read books. Are you not interested in reading books? Read. We have got many ways. That is for mass of people. The class of people who wants to understand this movement through science, philosophy, come on, read these books.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is why we rejected our so-called religious heritage. We could see that there was no substance to it. And the leaders were just like normal debauchees of any other groups. They weren't spiritual. I used to remember seeing the priests and the rabbis getting drunk, smoking cigarettes, talking nonsense just like everybody else. There was no difference except for the dress.

Prabhupāda: This is everywhere. In India also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja, did you get those passbooks by any chance?

Girirāja: Amogha-līlā was... Mr. Krishnamurti didn't come back until the afternoon, so it couldn't be taken for being brought up to date.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'm going today. I have to meet with Girirāja about a number of things, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is religion or no religion. Suppose there is university, and if some religious sect says that "In our religion we shall not take university education."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We shall not take any education from the university?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So will the government accept?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In United States there is a group in Pennsylvania, and they say that they will not undergo any kind of normal education, because it is polluted, and they have their own education, and they are permitted. Even from six, seven years old, from first grade. They are called the Amish people. (some noise in background) That's not a door, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's heavy dropping of heavy items.

Prabhupāda: Another point, in secular, the scientific knowledge, two plus two equal to four. If somebody says, "No, in our opinion it is five," will it be accepted?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't hear what you were saying.

Prabhupāda: If two plus two equal to four. If somebody says "In our opinion it should be five..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no one will accept that.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if government requires teaching the science that this body is not yourself, you are different from the body, if some other sect, they say, "That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā; it is meant for the Hindus, not for us," will it be accepted?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should not be.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is that picture?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "Handicapped though, these foursome make a cheerful group as they paddle along on three wheelers every day from their homes in the King George Memorial Infirmary on Jagtap Marga, Maha-Lakshmi." Some invalids. "Mr. Jaya Prakash Narayan in a statement on Sunday came out strongly against the attempts of some people to lobby through him for personal favors and advancements from the Janata party government center." He doesn't like it. Everyone is going to him now. (pause) "The aim and object of the 42nd constitutional amendment was stated to be to establish the supremacy of the legislature, but in fact it was designed to establish the absolute authority of the executive as personified by the Prime Minister, according to Mr. C. K. Dapteri, former attorney general of India. Mr. Dapteri said, 'Everyone knows that misuse to which the power of preventative detention has been put in the last eighteen months. It is not necessary to recall or relay instances. But the power itself is so easily capable of being put to wrong use that it is unsafe to leave it in the hands of the executive government.' "

Prabhupāda: This will be amended now.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Prime Minister is lightie?

Upendra: Yes. He is very educated. He is half. All the ministers are, those natives are light-skinned. They are from a particular island group, mixed. They are very intelligent and polite. The other natives are darker and more extremists. But this extremist agitation is, they say, is instigated by the Europeans, who keep the Indians and natives apart, because the natives have all the land, and this is what the Europeans are interested in. So they instigate it.

Prabhupāda: These rascals, wherever they go, they create trouble.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Simply fighting. They are not peaceful. That's all. Where is peace? You'll be surprised. During gas scarcity the gas was being supplied in Honolulu. This was in our presence. So the gas supply, whatever they had, distributed, and they had one sign board, "No more gas." So next man was so angry that he shot him dead. Just see. He had no more gas; he cannot supply. He became so much infuriated that he shot him dead. This is the result of this modern motorcar civilization. He thought that "Gas will not be supplied. Then I am gone. I am finished. So kill this man." This is education. (Hindi) Provided we train at least some ideal men, everything can be done. Everything is there. There is no scarcity of knowledge in India. We have to simply take it and practically apply it, bas. (Hindi) We are not sentimental (laughs) religious group. Everything practical. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not like that, sentiment. Everything scientific, practical, for the good of the whole human society. Therefore I require that this must be pushed on for the whole human society, and naturally India also. (aside:) The prasādam arrangement is...? You give each item, one each... No, no, give me, give me, give... This is... Each item, you give one. I have got this ambition that Indian culture should be spread, and otherwise what can I do wherever...?

Mr. Rajda: And you have already done lot of great, noble work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they say at least.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So? Now, this nationalism idea, so you have trace out the whole history. By introducing this nationalism, what improvement gave? Nationalism, the leader, it began in Europe, the Romans. They wanted to spread. Where are the Romans now? Carthagian, old history, Egyptian, Grecian, then, later on, Moguls or then British. So where are these groups? "Combined together, exploit others." That was, that means, a gang of rogues. Rogues and thieves, they... And by doing that, what they have actually done? The Romans, now their broken buildings are there. And people go to see the fun, how they used to enjoy. What is that called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coliseum. That's the Greek Coliseum, they...

Prabhupāda: By keeping one lion and fighting him and it is enjoyed. What is this? What they have gained? In this way, the privileged... Is it not subject perception? What Napoleon has done? Or Hitler has done? Or Churchill has done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about nationalism here in India?

Prabhupāda: They are imitating. What Gandhi has done? These things are cheating, spoiled. Then they have now a slogan to drive away poverty. Vivekananda imitated, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. So Vivekananda started his mission in India hundred years ago. Why there are so many daridras lying on the street at night? Hm? Everywhere. Here you can say, "India is poverty-stricken." That is your imagination. Accepting that, those who are materially opulent, why they are also, they're lying on the street? Why in Bowery Street they are lying on the street? Why in the Bedford Park English boys are lying on street?

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So then it is very difficult.

Guest (2): Only the government can do it. Any government, even if it is a small country. Therefore I said political power plays an important role in this. Whether it is Nepal, whether it is in Indian, certain circumstances, one should meet on a national level. (indistinct) We can have a small function and speak to the Prime Minister.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One group that can go is our theater group.

Dr. Sharma: Yes, that may be right. Theater group go to show that it is an Indian culture program and try to sell the most of this Bhagavad-gītā and Rāmāyaṇa and Bhāgavatam. Because they are themselves, Russians, have come with a troupe and played Rāmāyaṇa in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Sharma: And to do that exist on the political gimmick to show their Indo-Soviet relations, to increase it. We would send some of the people from here...

Prabhupāda: You note it. We shall give stress. We can make caitanya-līlā, kṛṣṇa-līlā, like that. We have got everything.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-līlā can be played very nicely.

Guest (1): And it is maintained at a very remarkable level standard. Performance is very good. This could definitely go in as an Indo-Soviet cultural group, and it would be really educating the masses in no time. It is almost as good as showing them a film show or a cinema.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is the government has got the cultural department. So they will patronize Lata Mangeskar, but they will not give us money to go there.

Guest (1): That is I am telling. And the associated with ISKCON's...

Prabhupāda: No, I will say, not Lata Mangeskar, any dancing party, they will patronize. But if we go for preaching Bhagavad-gītā...

Dr. Sharma: No, we have to do it in a way that it has (Hindi) We have to take the (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they understand, they can do it.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have got two temples in London. One in the city, and one in the border of London. That is very big temple. Seventeen acres of land. George Harrison has given us that property.

Guests: (talking about George Harrison)

Dr. Sharma: No, you are mistaken. George Harrison is a different... Rex Harrison is a British actor.

Prabhupāda: George Harrison of the Beatle group.

Dr. Sharma: Beatle group, oh. Rex Harrison is an actor...

Guest (2): They are singers.

Dr. Sharma: No, that's a different. Because Harrison is more popular in Europe and West than Lata Mangeskar. Raj Kapoor they know. They know, I think more than George Harrison(?), Raj Kapoor is a most popular man in Soviet Union because of his films. And second is Jawaharlal Nehru. So they can make anybody popular or unpopular. Because there is only one paper. They write whatever they want. Unfortunately, the whole thing is in the hands of those (indistinct). They publish whatever they want. So this type of popularity is not real popularity. You cannot take the face value popularity. So I think this type of creating a drama or taking a film for educating about God, and then there will be some sort of a scientific discourse as if intellectual level that...

Prabhupāda: Scientific research...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How about that new film that Yadubara has just made? That's presenting everything as seemingly unreligious way. What is it called? "A Spark of Life" it's called. A new film. Are you going to be showing it here tonight, Yadubara?

Yadubara: Yes.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have not minimized our program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're increasing our program.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Being afraid of them, we have not decreased our activities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That's the point. These other groups in America, they lost their court cases, and they are either kicked out or minimizing their programs. They're hiding now. But we are increasing.

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The residents of Vṛndāvana, they do not fear the enemies, the demons who are coming.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The residents of Vṛndāvana, they were never fearful.

Prabhupāda: No. (laughs) They know Kṛṣṇa is there. As soon as there is danger... There is torrents of rain. Innocent, they do not know. Kṛṣṇa: "Yes! Come on." They come, "Come on under the umbrella. Let there be rain. Now they are safe." Then Indra could understand, "Oh, the challenge... My Lord..." He was surprised that "A boy, cowherd boy, these people, they're worshiping as God? Oh, that may be..." Brahmā challenged, "This cowherd boy..."

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Due to this rain, they'll have good food... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...very comfortable for traveling. It's very good for the crops. And I also have two offers of land in Manipur to build a temple, Hare Kṛṣṇa temple, from two places. One is right in the middle of the town, and one is little away, about seventeen miles. And I'll show you the map, the place. It's..., lot of it is sort of competitor. They wanted a temple built in one of these lands that they offered, so the two groups are...

Prabhupāda: If people cooperate, we can have two temples. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the land, the second land, it is on the hillside. From there you can see the whole of Manipur, because it is... The land is like this...

Prabhupāda: Scenery.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scenery's just beautiful. It's all on the foothills, and it's very charming, with the banyan trees and the monkeys, four classes of monkeys.

Prabhupāda: They are receptive.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So we can pay you so much. What was your estimate? You made some estimate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. It is about six thousand, six thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Six thousand dollars, but we are ready to spend fifteen to twenty thousand dollars. Make it nicely, everything. We shall spend. Make worldwide propaganda. And there will be no scarcity of money. Tour. Make extensive tour, especially in Russia. In Russia send this film group, the scientific group, and if the Doctor is seriously our friend, let him translate. And that translation, it shall be good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said it's very good.

Prabhupāda: And the person who is translating, encourage him. Do this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, Harikeśa, we have to reply his letters, so I have noted down to tell him that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let him translate as many as possible. And make this program. And that twenty thousand dollars should not be touched. It will be simply spent for this propaganda.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it was a good defense.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You have joined together to defeat me. Why don't you preach jointly? What do you want? That I shall also join and we shall jointly preach. Do this. You are divided amongst yourselves, and you have joined together to defeat me." Śrīdhara Mahārāja is the leader.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of that group.

Prabhupāda: Mādhava Mahārāja also

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mādhava Mahārāja is.

Prabhupāda: For the last forty years they're fighting in the courts. They indirectly wanted me also to join them. "He has got money. If he joins, then our monetary, financial help will be there." That is their...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīdhara Mahārāja. I remember a letter they wrote you in Los Angeles in 1969. You replied them, "Yes, I will join, but since I have preached in eleven-twelfths of the world, eleven of my men will be representatives, and you can put one."

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes. Yes, according to the area, my representatives are there.

Conversation with Tamala Krsna about Yadubara -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whose idea is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says they've been requested by the various temples around our society to film Sudāmā Mahārāja's theater group playing "The Age of Kali" and, perhaps, other plays so that these films could be shown at Sunday feasts, because they can't have the theater group in every temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is good idea. Good idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You like that idea.

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Also these films could be shown on television. 'The Age of Kali' play is especially dramatic and would appeal to a mass audience for television." He says, "In this way we could introduce our philosophy to many millions of people. The players are very expert, and I feel the people in general will appreciate their efforts."

Prabhupāda: He can do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he's also eager to help Svarūpa Dāmodara in whatever way he can because his project is so much stressed by you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

rabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're starting to catch on to him now, and when they do it's going to be a big scandal because he really made it into the American..., all over the world, but especially in America. He even got into the Army. They were teaching Transcendental Meditation in the Army. Even in schools... He had it in public schools. He said, "It is not at all religious. It's science, and it should be taught. Just like you teach gymnastics, you should also teach this." So if this becomes exposed, oh... It'll also hurt us indirectly, but actually it'll be good for us. But naturally they'll think that "All of these groups are now bogus." He's very much accepted in the public mind. But now the Congressional committees are investigating him.

Prabhupāda: And ours is accepted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our is very accepted.

Prabhupāda: That's a great achievement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That should be, this Congressional... Who has got so many temples?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they have a lot of offices, but they don't have any temples where Deities are worshiped. None of them. They don't touch Deity worship.

Prabhupāda: Rogues and thieves, what they know about Deity worship?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither they have any books.

Prabhupāda: Simply words, long, long.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Artificial. Cyavanti te. There is one verse. They'll fall down. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord engaged in devotional service of the Lord are called (sic:) bhakta-yogīs. Now, here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jñāna-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the same goal, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul. The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore the bhakti-yogī accepts the Deity of Kṛṣṇa as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguṇa or nirguṇa, of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguṇa worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood, or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord. A crude example may be given here. We may find some mail boxes on the street, and if we post our letters in those boxes, they will naturally will go to their destination without difficulty. But any old box or an imitation which we may find somewhere, which is not authorized by the post office, will not do the work. Similarly, God has an authorized representation in the Deity form, which is called arcā-vigraha. This arcā-vigraha is an incarnation of the Supreme Lord. God will accept service through that form. The Lord is omnipotent and all-powerful. Therefore, by His incarnation as arcā-vigraha, He can accept the service of the devotee just to make it convenient for the man in conditioned life. So for a devotee, there is no difficulty in approaching the Supreme immediately and directly, but for those who are following the impersonal way to spiritual realization, the path is difficult. They have to understand the unmanifested representation of the Supreme through such Vedic literatures as the Upaniṣads, and they have to learn the language, understand the nonperceptual feeling, and they have to realize all these processes..."

Prabhupāda: Just like in the Upaniṣads it is said, paśyaty acakṣuḥ: "He sees, but He has no eyes." So what is that? How we can think of, one is seeing without eye? Aiye. There are so many. Śṛṇoty akarṇaḥ: "He has no ears..." So both things are there. When it is said, paśyaty acakṣuḥ... Mean cakṣuḥ, eyes, as soon we think of eyes, we think of our eyes, own eyes, and therefore it is forbidden, "Not like your eyes." Paśyati. He can see everywhere. Therefore we have to discuss śāstra. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti (Bs. 5.32). The aṅga, the different parts of the body of Kṛṣṇa, has got all the qualities of other aṅga. Just like we can see with eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can speak also with eyes. He can eat also with eyes. That is difference.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They received well.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Well and... It was actually the Indian who arranged this group, from the Federal Government, United States.

Prabhupāda: You gave him good reception?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, good reception.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So what is your news?

Harikeśa: Everything's going on, Prabhupāda. The Russian book is now a textbook.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: The Russian booklet, Russian Easy Journey, is now being used as a textbook in the Catholic university in Lublin(?) by one professor. They liked the Russian so much and they liked the subject matter so much, they're using it in the school. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: And your Kṛṣṇa is... Present now scientifically. They'll not receive?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, well, this is... This should be ready, and this will be ready this month, this third one, so...

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way make it immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you're gonna have your massage now.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the next group is coming out at three. That's nearly five hours from now. So I think that immediately we can have a meeting and discuss these points and immediately...

Prabhupāda: No, discussion I have already given. You do this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I meant... And execute this.

Prabhupāda: All right, you do it. Don't delay. (break) Life is within the atom. Aṇḍāntara-stham. That life in due course of time, it comes out through the water. All of a sudden there is bubble coming down, coming down. That is the beginning of generation. What do you think, that? Jalajā. Kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. They are elevated very high planetary system. Again, after reminiscing, they come down. That is described in the śāstra, fall down through rains. Again, like bubbles, come out. (break) Where? The bottom of the earth, giving life. That is already done. In favorable circumstances, due course of time, it comes out. (aside:) You keep. (break) Lots of money.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think it is all right. It is all right. Bring this typed. Make everything. That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: This will make it impossible for anyone to cheat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, as far as I can see, finished. Yes. Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now the next group will come, Śrīla Prabhupāda, for kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Now he is introducing in Russian language a textbook. In Russian, is it not?

Harikeśa: Polish.

Prabhupāda: Poland. They have been introduced. This is achievement. I want that. Hm. Go on. (kīrtana) (end)

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So the ḍheṅki... If you send the ḍheṅki to heaven, so what it will do? Same business. Either the ḍheṅki is kept here or in the heaven, his business to do that "Dag, dag, dag, dag..."So?

Jayapatākā: Next group is there.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says the next group is ready.

Jayapatākā: Can I give the report, Tamāla?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Yes? Next person? (break) (Bengali) By passing wind if there is somebody benefit, they'll not pass. Such a low-grade man. Therefore they are ruined, those men. There is not a single upright. You cannot expect that they will willfully, willingly...

Jayapatākā: No, we'll get that by hook or by crook.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is only... Sathe sārthaṁ samācaret.(?) They are first-class cheater. We shall cheat them. (laughter) Don't worry. This is only... They have ruined the institution, all third-class, fourth-class men.

Jayapatākā: He knew that it was right. He couldn't deny it. But he has got no power to... No willpower.

Prabhupāda: No power? No, he has power. He'll not do. He has power.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do that. They are simply... They can do.

Jayapatākā: And everyone appreciates your work, Śrīla Prabhupāda. What you've done for Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, no one has done.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, that same group of GBC that met with you yesterday...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: The GBC men that met with you yesterday, they'd like to see you again. They have one more resolution.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Jayatīrtha: You're feeling a little stronger today, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: Something.

Prabhupāda: Little improvement there is.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The same bhakti-yoga. This is practical.

Jayapatākā: Now there's another group.

Yaśodānandana: Jaya oṁ viṣṇupāda paramahaṁsa parivrājakācārya aṣṭottara-śata śrī-śrīmad... (break)

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They'll not pay. All dry flowers they'll supply you and take American money. He'll not pay. Anyway, satisfy yourself. So it is raining?

Hari-śauri: It's beginning to. (break)

Prabhupāda: Where is Bhavānanda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is at the fire sacrifice.

Prabhupāda: Fire sacrifice not yet finished?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then when it will be finished?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Usually after they put on their dhoti, then the fire sacrifice begins.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Fire sacrifice... Let it be finished now. Who said that before fire sacrifice begins they should put on...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know who.

Prabhupāda: Nobody has got...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda said that they should come here.

Prabhupāda: No, they should attend the fire sacrifice.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That means he is under the control of something higher, but he refutes, tries to avoid. That cannot be avoided. A child must become a boy. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Harikeśa: But the worst thing is that not only are they causing themselves trouble, but they cause it upon everyone else.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. Causing everyone else means the same group. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. One who is blind, he can be cheated by another blind man. But one who is not blind, if the blind man wants to cheat him, that "I can help you crossing the room," he will laugh, that "This rascal is blind, and he has offered me to help me. We take this, that if a person is... We know that he is defective. His knowledge is imperfect. What knowledge he will give? Immediately reject him.

Harikeśa: He can give good knowledge on how to accelerate death.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. There is no question of his accelerating. It is already going on in this world. (pause) So many things we have to discuss. Is it not? People are in darkness in so many ways. Therefore we have to take the standard knowledge.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just explain this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other day, when I went from Delhi to Calcutta in the plane, I happened to see that Dr. Chatterjee from Calcutta University. She's a lady, woman, but she's very well known. International scientist she has become. Her name is Asina Chatterjee. And I never saw here, though I was studying side by side in the next building, in Calcutta University. She discovered some drug. That's why she became famous. And she's also a member of Council of Scientific and Industrial Research all over India, and also a member of University Grants Commission. So she told me that she went for a meeting to attend in Delhi, and there was also an engineer who was sitting in between me and her, and I was discussing about our plan for scientific conference on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was also Bengali from Calcutta. Somehow she became very interested. I was explaining how scientists misleading, thinking that life can be chemical. And I was describing about how life can be nonchemical and nonphysical. So Chatterjee immediately joined the talk. And I immediately recognized that she must be Chatterjee. So I asked her, "Are you Dr. Chatterjee?" I never saw her before, but I just guessed right. She was Dr. Asina Chatterjee. And she became very interested in the talk, and then she was completely agreeing to our discussion that life is something spiritual, beyond physics and chemistry. So she actually invited me to come and give a talk in chemistry department Calcutta University. So I said that we are coming back with our scientific group from Kṛṣṇa consciousness and would like to present the philosophy in that chemistry department. So like that, there are many...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recruit them, at least some.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They enjoy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. And then again on the next floor up it's the same, plus there's the theater, and the theater has two performances, Sudāmā Mahārāja's group. So a person can go from one floor to another for many hours and take part in different activities and feel very blissful. They love it. The same people love coming again and again, every Sunday. And there's about eight or nine devotees. Their only business is to try and make the people join and become full-time devotees.

Prabhupāda: And book selling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Book selling... We sell at least, say, I would say, something like about four hundred dollars worth of books every Sunday at the temple. Most of the people who came, they came because they bought your book, and we gave them an invitation to the feast. Everyone who has joined has bought your book first. That is their introduction to Kṛṣṇa consciousness—a book. Very few people come first to a temple. First thing they take and read your book. Then they become interested. The book goes into their home. (break) They can put these. Oh, yeah... Because they're libraries. I mean, they can buy the books. They can buy the books. The theology, arts... Nothing wrong with their buying, but probably they... From what I know, the general system is that you don't send salesmen into these communist countries. You send a brochure, and they buy through their agents. And this is unheard of, that someone sneaks into a country with all these books and preaches. He said sometimes his life is threatened.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a battle.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is also a Christian group...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Christianity a Christian group, they also are trying to counteract modern science, but their approach is very superficial. They also think that somehow God created life, but the way their knowledge is based, it's very superficial, so the scientists don't take anything seriously. They also say that it's only about five thousand years ago that man was created, these groups.

Prabhupāda: Not thousand. Millions, the very beginning. God has brain; therefore we have got brain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They call Creation Research Institute. They have office in San Diego.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of creation. God is not creator, er, not created. He is creator. And as long as God is there, the living beings... It is not uncertain. The nityaḥ, śāśvataḥ. Then these two words would not have been used if it is created. He never said.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I made an advertisement in M.I.T. saying that... Korana is the man who synthesized this gene... They thought that might life. So I was putting in an M.I.T. newspaper in the campus, saying that "Korana's gene is not life, and virus is not life. These are all molecules. They have nothing to do with life." So we have a lecture coming up next month, July 10th, in the M.I.T. campus, so three of us are going to speak on life coming from life. Because this is an M.I.T. campus, so there'll be many people from his group coming, because it is directly challenging the biggest group in the United States about this...

Prabhupāda: So do they accept?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, and some Indians are on our side, specially this Indian Student's Association, and also there is an association called Indian Association for Greater Boston. The president and the secretary came to me, and they are supporting us.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they're organizing these lectures, so we have a show on July 10th.

Prabhupāda: Make a great agitation. It will be done, if you work. (pause) A great challenge of the Bhaktivedanta Institute, for the whole world. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such a good certificate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.

Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Satsvarūpa writes that this will very much help the... He says it will help its sales in America. Then this article...

Prabhupāda: It is very thoughtful article.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Childish. What dragon will help?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole article is more or less... It's not really worth reading the whole thing. It's mainly about that they're here to stay. It mentions Hare Kṛṣṇa. It says, "After nearly a decade of this ferment, the underlying question is whether these new groups will last. The answer appears to be that most of them, though faced with high attrition rates and continuing obstacles to survival, have retained a small but sufficient core of devoted followers and are acquiring the resources needed to continue their work." It mentions that there are a number of court battles, including members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ours is the first group they mention.

Prabhupāda: That, it does not mention about the Transcendental Meditation?

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't make you change any different. Actually no one even recognizes any difference after following it. They're fools to begin with, and they come out fools at the end. It says here, it quotes Dr. Stillson Judah. Unfortunately it doesn't quote Dr. Stillson Judah right about us. It seems that Stillson Judah has also written a book about Moon. So it's quoting, "Stillson Judah of the Graduate Theological Union shows a small core of membership, three thousand in the case of the Moonies." It says here that "But through persistent evangelic efforts these groups are winning new converts and attain fiscal stability."

Prabhupāda: I think that Maharishi is therefore in Hrishikesh. He's afraid of being arrested or something like that.

Śatadhanya: He's hiding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here that "The Moon people expect to discontinue street sales of candy and other items in three years, hoping to have become totally reliant upon businesses by then." See, we go out, and we distribute our books, and we use, you know, things like candy or incense as a...

Prabhupāda: Introduction.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...introduction. So we were imitated by all the other groups. But the only difference is that's all they have is the introduction. They don't come with the book at the end. All they do is sell candy and the incense to get money. So groups like the Moonies, they want to discontinue this. In place, they want to make big businesses just like the Christians have. And nobody will be on the street anymore.

Prabhupāda: Even gambling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, anything. It doesn't matter what it is. For example... I was reading a report about them. So just like we have our saṅkīrtana parties and each, like five or six men in a van go out, they also have vans like that. But each van they have one Korean woman with each van. They say she keeps the accounts. That was the explanation. But it's obvious that she's a prostitute. It's very clear. So they do anything. They have no scruples or principles. So at any rate, the thing I feel about this is that we take pride in saying that we are on the streets now and we'll always be on the streets because our business is selling books. We're not going to depend on some big business and then stop our preaching. They are not preaching. This proves that what they do on the street is not preaching. They're simply collecting money.

Prabhupāda: They have nothing to preach. What they have got to preach?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's a picture.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We want that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everybody admits that no one can beat us in our book distribution. Other groups, they tried to duplicate what we are doing, but they failed.

Prabhupāda: No, what they have got, books?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's another thing. The other Santa Claus, they don't give anything. We give books. They give nothing except they pat the guy on the head. They pat the child. That's all. What will that help the child, patting him on the head? And another thing is that all the other Salvation Army Santa Claus, they're all drunkards.

Prabhupāda: They must be drunkards.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know the Salvation Army is very... They take all the drunkards. They give them Santa suits.

Prabhupāda: If you take money without any aim, you must be drunkard.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're tremendous. Here is a letter from the member of the advisory board of the Sāhitya Academy. You know what that is Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sāhitya Academy? I think it's a literary academy. " 'No earthly writer today can match the vast outpouring of pure verse which our ancient sages, particularly the great Vyāsadeva, have left to the world. Motivated by a deep desire to give moral, cultural, and educational upliftment to all people irrespective of caste, creed or nationality, they have taught us the higher values of life through the medium of historical narrations, biographies, the lives of great men, and simple instructive stories. The unlimited wealth which they have left behind in the Devanāgarī script is sheer ecstasy to read for the poet, the student and the common man. Since dialectic differences began to splinter men into smaller groups, the original language, Sanskrit, was gradually forgotten. It is special grace upon the denizens of this world today that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has done such a tremendous job of meticulously translating into so many languages the sacred books of our heritage. Swamiji's most noteworthy achievement is his Encyclopedia of Vedic Education, the multivolume presentation of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta.' " One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this calling it the Encyclopedia of Vedic..., as he's doing...Everyone has always known the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but fewer people knew Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and now these two are lumped together as equally very important works.

Prabhupāda: Complete.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much increased...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, actually there's a group, a musical group. And as part of their performance... They keep a pen of hogs in front of them. And as part of the performance they all take off their clothes and jump in and play with the hogs. And all the people applaud, and some of them jump in also. Very popular group.

Prabhupāda: The hippies are nothing but a group of madmen, that's all. A madman, they..., means publicly sex, that's all. This Allen Ginsberg's movement is that, homosex, public sex. Ginsberg was very proud that he had introduced homosex. He was telling me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was telling you?

Prabhupāda: When he first came to me he was very proud: "I have introduced homosex." He thought very brilliant work it was. And another man, what is that? He's put into jail.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Timothy Leary.

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha. What is his position now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I haven't heard about him in the last few years.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We already said that this is a Communist plan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They stripped a woman naked. Look at how these Muslims behaved. And after all these years of our distributing prasādam, and still they act like this.

Prabhupāda: They are Communist group. Muslims are not so bad, but the Communists... They are... Communists are creating as Hindu-Muslim or like that, religious group. He has written something about Communists?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick. (break) ...infirmary and they come in and they... I never heard of that. Someone is in the infirmary being treated and they beat him worse. And the newspapers all report it the other way.

Prabhupāda: Because the government is Communist.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Government published this. The Statesman, therefore, has not given any description.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't notice. Here's a little news clipping. It's probably the same. You probably have seen this already. This is from Indian Express. "Why Krishna Mandir Men Fired Salvo." By a... "An attack on the devotees and destruction of the premises of ISKCON Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir, West Bengal, led to the shooting incident, according to Mr. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Dāsa, Secretary, Bombay center of the organization. Mr. Dāsa, in his statement issued on Monday, said the news from their sources in Bengal stated that on July 8th about fifty miscreants were found encroaching on our agricultural field and stealing our crops. When a devotee requested them to stop, they became angry and beat him up, fracturing his skull. Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants..." Notice how they're not going to use "Muslims." They say "miscreants." They don't say "Muslims." Probably the paper wants to avoid. This is a hot issue. No one wants to write "Hindu-Muslim." "Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants armed with sticks and spears suddenly appeared from behind the bushes and all of them entered the temple area. Mr. Dāsa said the miscreants beat several more devotees, including the Gurukula school headmaster, whose both hands and skull were broken. They also stripped naked a female disciple. They cut off electrical connections, telephone lines and water pipes. The police did not come for two hours, and meanwhile the group destroyed the gate, broke windows and stole two bulls. According to ISKCON Secretary, as a final resort, one ran for a gun, appropriately licensed and registered with the government, and fired a shot in the air. As the group persisted, he fired again into the ground which injured eleven of the miscreants. All of those injured have been discharged from the hospital." They're not injured seriously at all. "Mr. Dāsa said the police advised the devotees to go to the Krishnanagar police station to report the incident, and when they did go there they were arrested. Two devotees in critical condition were also detained in the jail hospital. Asked why our men have been kept in jail, the police replied, 'As a precaution.' "

Prabhupāda: This report is already there.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In New York. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paramānanda's the president of the farm, and he's the sannyāsī there. And he's also in charge of the Rādhā-Dāmodara office. While Tripurāri Mahārāja travels in the field, he heads up the office. And the office is in a city right near the farm. So he goes half the week to the farm, half the week to the office to manage. Remember I mentioned, Dhṛṣṭadyumna's brother is an architect. So they're planning the farm for building it. It's called a model community. They're going to make it New Varṣāṇā Model Community. Everything will be planned out ahead of time—where the cows will be living—from the point of Vedic conception. It won't be hodgepodge. And they feel that it will gain tremendous interest amongst the prominent persons of America who want to visit a model community. Many universities and schools will send groups of students to visit and see. That's their idea.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They gave to the Vallabhācārya. But somehow they are maintaining the status quo.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Still very opulent. They do very elaborate. That Pushti Marg group, they do very elaborate Deity worship.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, they don't preach very vigorously, but at least their Deity worship...

Prabhupāda: That is also preaching. Arcanam. One of the... If they maintain the Deity worship gorgeously, that is also preaching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the guiding principle should be that under no circumstance should anyone become lost.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the preaching? Alexander the Great? He was conquering, and as soon he went to conquer another place, the last place lost.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, Ratha-yātrā has been performed. This is good news. Thank you. (break) Each standing order is for eight hundred rupees, seventeen books. So four thousand. So how much it becomes?

Dr. Kapoor: These boys are doing very good work. How much enthusiasm they are putting in.

Prabhupāda: There is two, three groups working in the Communist country. So we are getting very encouraging report, especially for Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So what is the price of four thousand sets at eight hundred rupees?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's about thirty-two lakhs' rupees, four thousand...

Prabhupāda: So beyond imagination. (laughter) We printed Caitanya-caritāmṛta, twenty thousand copies. Out of that, five thousand copies are already sold, and we have collected at least forty lakhs of rupees. And India also we are getting orders even from Bangladesh, Dacca, Dacca University. So by Prabhupāda's āśīrvāda things are going very encouraging. What we have sold in the last one week? The last report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The last report... This is simply from the American and Western European countries, it was reported in one week, June 27th to July 3rd, they sold 51,000 hardcover books, then 30,000 medium size books, 20,000 small books, and 140,000 magazines in one week.

Dr. Kapoor: Staggering figures.

Prabhupāda: Fifty-one thousand, five dollars each. What is the?

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: They already like our program of chanting and dancing.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Yaśomatīnandana: Very much they love it. People come from distant villages in groups.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Make them... In Gujarat it is very good. So you show an example that other camp will...

Yaśomatīnandana: This year we are taking some cash crops just to develop the farm.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Yaśomatīnandana: But then, once we have developed, then we can have rice and wheat and then distribute free prasāda to everyone. Because every inch of the land is cultivatable.

Prabhupāda: I have given so much for... Try to repay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants you to engage the local people in farming that land. Can you do that?

Yaśomatīnandana: Well, we are doing it as...

Prabhupāda: Gradually.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, and they are giving us some status to stay there?

Haṁsadūta: No, we have no official status. The way to function there is that you can stay for six months if you bring three dollars a day for them, and then go out, and you can come back the next day. They want to get rid of all religious groups. They want only their Buddhist group. They want to make the Buddhist religion as the state religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: At least they talk like that. And so all the religious groups there, the Christians and others, they're phasing them out by taking away their resident visas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Well, the Tamils are in a very bad position. They've all fled to the Jafna area, the north area.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why are they so against the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Well, the government, the politicians, they incite the people to create trouble, and in this way they try to assume office. They just take advantage of the people in this way, stir them up.

Prabhupāda: Tamils are poor men?

Haṁsadūta: Tamils? No, the Tamils were all the business centers.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke.

Bhavānanda: As soon as we were released, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I immediately came here. I'm free to stay here with you. When we heard that your health had gotten worse and worse, I realized that I'm totally dependent upon you for my very life and soul, Śrīla Prabhupāda. If you should leave, I don't... (break) ...then with a group of men, and in one week he distributed over five thousand books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which book is selling the most? (some discussion)

Bhavānanda: And Ānanda-svarūpa is in Malda, and he in the last week distributed over four thousand books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the report from Haridaspura?

Bhavānanda: They had their disappearance day of Ṭhākura Haridāsa. They distributed prasādam, and five thousand people came. We sent a party of men down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five thousand.

Bhavānanda: Now the flood waters have recessed. We're preparing for the planting, plowing. Everything has been flooded. Just now it's dry enough to plow for planting wheat. We planted 170 coconut trees. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your pulse is nice and strong, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What is the attitude of our Godbrothers?

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rāja. And if we turn them ṛṣi, then our mission is fulfilled. Very good. Now you have started your own business.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. With your blessing. The business is not important, but it is a medium for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. My secretary is already a devotee, and the other people are also becoming interested. The goal is to have a Kṛṣṇa conscious group working in the society.

Prabhupāda: Go very slowly. Never mind. You all young men. All right. Go on chanting. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What meeting is going on?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We had two meetings today. One meeting was the BBT meeting for the completion of the Bombay project. And then another meeting was about our community Gītā-nagarī. Describing how it will be... Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja has come with his brother, who's the architect. And we're having a meeting for planning this ideal community very exactly, everything. The people present at the meeting are Bhavānanda Mahārāja and Paramānanda, Vāmanadeva, Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja, Tripurāri Mahārāja, Balavanta, Rūpānuga. All these people have experience with..., you know, like Bhavānanda in Māyāpur. Balavanta has two farms, Rūpānuga, all of these people. In other words, we're just trying to plan out... And Surabhī Mahārāja. And Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja's brother is an architect. In fact I've just been told that his architectural firm is the same one that's designing the... What is that? Designing a big thing in Tehran for the Shah of Iran. It's a very big architectural firm. So we're just trying to plan a very ideal community. We don't want to make a hodgepodge of it. I mean it should be so ideal that it becomes one of the most wonderful preaching tools for our movement, to show that "Here is an ideal community based upon Vedic principles, and it's perfect in every respect." So it takes a little cooperative thought and planning. That's why we've invited so many people to sit in the meeting.

Prabhupāda: I was very happy when I heard, respectable gentlemen, out of love, they are washing dishes. You know that? Ātreya Ṛṣi told me.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your lectures in Delhi drew the most intelligent class of people, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The other swamis, when they would lecture, they would get just the typical pious Indian people, but yours also drew very intelligent group of people, sophisticated people.

Prabhupāda: They danced. (laughter) With coat-pant. I have seen.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially there's one Dr. Murti. He's the professor of chemistry, Delhi University. He told me that Prabhupāda is a very good speaker. He said he heard Swamiji's lectures. He said, "Very good speaker." And he's coming early in the morning tomorrow. Whole chemistry group are coming from Delhi University.

Prabhupāda: What is the time?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's 9:30 now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Your glucose is here.

Prabhupāda: Give me.

Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: A little ladle.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja give it.

Kīrtanānanda: Is there a spoon?

Prabhupāda: I'll not sit up.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are a group of physicists in the world today that... They think that the phenomena and the relationship between life and matter is some sort of a complementary. Just like they took this idea from a physicist called Niels Bohr. He tried to explain the quality of a particle called electron that has two properties. Sometimes is behaves like a wave, and sometimes it behaves like a particle. So he proposed an idea called "complementarity." Taking from that idea, some of the present-day physicists think that life and matter are some sort of a complementary. But we are saying that that is wrong, saying that life is completely different from matter, inanimate matter. We're going to make that stand strong and also make it quite clear in the conference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhavānanda Mahārāja is here.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Bhavānanda Mahārāja?

Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, things are being arranged very nice?

Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everything is being arranged now. The district magistrate and local officials have all been invited personally this morning, and the guesthouse is being completely cleaned up and made nice. Prasādam is being arranged. Conference room is being decorated. The dining hall for their prasādam is all being arranged also.

Prabhupāda: At the present moment our ordinary prasādam is very much liked by...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He has become Māyāvādī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter) Does that sound possible? It sounds possible, doesn't it? Yes.

Gurukṛpā: He said before he met His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta that he was a Māyāvādī. Now he's still a Māyāvādī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He gave up his... He became part of this Nitāi-Gaura-Rādhe-Śyāma group. And how genuine could he be to do that? Anyway, no one took him very seriously.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one took him very seriously, especially after Mādhava dāsa smashed his nonsense point. Of course, he did it very nicely, Mādhava dāsa. Because he's a scientist, he did it in a very tasteful way, scientifically proved that what he said was wrong.

Bhavānanda: Prabhupāda? You haven't taken very much liquid today, only 200 cc's of juice, not counting the yāmuna-jala. Would you like us to make you up some juice, pomegranate juice?

Prabhupāda: That juice is good, lime.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Navīna Kṛṣṇa. He's in Detroit. After the conference, I'm going to have a debate in Delhi, round-table conference with Dr. Kotari, D. S. Kotari and his group.

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He proposed that. That's Indian National Science Academy. But he had some very strange ideas. I'd like to clarify some of the points. Also, these people who are coming, they want us to come and speak to all their universities.

Prabhupāda: That will be very good.

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, what doctor says?

Bhavānanda: I was just discussing with them. They've given a, a series of medicines. That one doctor, Dr. Gopal, he said that you have a chronic kidney infection, and they both, Dr. Ghosh and Dr. Gopal, say it is very serious, that if it's not treated, that it could develop into uremia, which could be fatal. So he's given a whole group of medicines. However, the medicines can be combined. They say everything is functioning well, but the kidneys are not. (sic:) Renial, they call it renial infection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Renal. Renal damage.

Bhavānanda: Chronic. And Dr. Gopal, just like all of the other doctors, both Ayurvedic or allopathic, they all insist that you have to take more liquid. They said that you should measure how much you pass urine today. Say you pass 250 cc's of urine. That means that tomorrow you should take that amount plus 400 more in liquid. Each day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Always 400 more than the urine passed.

Bhavānanda: Four hundred more than you passed urine the day before. You should take any sort of liquid-milk, juices, water, anything. He also said that you have to take rich protein foods. Milk, curd, chānā, Proteinex, fruits, juices...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But milk causes mucus for Prabhupāda.

Bhavānanda: They say that the lungs are... Anyway...

Hari-śauri: They haven't seen the difficulty that Prabhupāda has in bringing this stuff up.

Bhavānanda: Milk... There has to be some protein.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chānā seemed good. Today you had the curd. It seems to have been all right. The cheese this morning, Prabhupāda. I don't notice any cough today.

Prabhupāda: Cough generates later on.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: Always more or less warm. Tropical, subtropical. Always nice fruits. Perhaps some day, in a Kṛṣṇa conscious world, we'll have to bring many people there, because there's so much unused land, all very green, lots of rivers, very nice, warm, and no one lives there. Thousands of miles of very nice land, and no one is using it. We are sending a few devotees back to Argentina, and we're going to try and see what can be done there. We are hopeful that even though our movement was kicked out there, still, there are many, many people who are chanting sixteen rounds or building altars in their homes and offering their food to Kṛṣṇa. And even since the government's kicked out all the different groups, including ourselves, just by your books circulating, many people are becoming devotees and leaving the country to go to other temples. So actually we're still making devotees there just from the books that were distributed. And now we're investigating to try to again get legal permission, also perhaps establish something like some type of restaurant or farm community there. (break)

Prabhupāda: What news?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're trying to fix a debate in Delhi on October 27th among different scientists and ourselves.

Prabhupāda: 27th October?

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now who is...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Trivedi. He is very bad also.

Devotee: He's worse than Gupta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's worse. I mean the whole group of them is worse. There's a whole clique of them. The real thing that was happening is that without the knowledge of the head office they were doing so many things here locally. When it became known to the head office, then the head office became very angry. I can now understand that they had a whole plan in mind. They had it very planned, what they were doing. The plan in my opinion was that they felt here is a sannyāsī, old sādhu, and he has many foreign disciples...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were planning, in my... I talked with Girirāja about this. They were thinking "Here is an old sannyāsī, Prabhupāda. He has many foreign disciples, he has money. Let us get the money in fixed deposit. Then if he should pass away, then somehow by trick the money will be kept here and we'll never let them take it out." That was their plan. Therefore whenever Prabhupāda suggested that Gurukṛpā would sign, co-sign, "No, no," they would never allow. Their plan is that Prabhupāda would pass away, and all the foreigners would be there, and they'd never let them take it. When I showed them this power of attorney, they had a great shock. They were shocked how this had happened to them. I think this was their plan. Very deceiving type of people. Because they are here in Vṛndāvana. All their money is from fixed deposits from āśramas. So they know how to do this business of keeping the money. Now everything is clear. The money is there in Delhi. The Delhi office is not like that. They're businesslike. And we can keep dealing them, but on regular accounts. None of these fixed deposits. Not now. They "Now you must gain their confidence again." We told them, "We have nothing against you. But you deal properly, then again we'll deposit. But deal properly in a businesslike way." We have nothing against them. Punjab Bank is a good bank. Anyway, it's settled now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's finished. I wanted you to know that it's been successfully completed due to Girirāja's good efforts. Girirāja went to Bombay. His parents went with him.

Prabhupāda: You said this Trivedi is worse than him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the voice is hard to hear. Should I try a little microphone? I can take it off immediately if it's not good. I think you'll...

Bhavānanda: Last year in Māyāpur, Śrīla Prabhupāda, during the festival and before, when you were there, they would, this kīrtana group of your disciples, they would be chanting over microphone so that Your Divine Grace could hear it in your room. I remember you commented many times on how sweet and nice it sounded.

Prabhupāda: It is already very loud.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very loud actually. (pause) All the devotees were very happy when they heard that you have started translating again.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday Prabhupāda translated for nearly two hours. The edited work, Śrīla Prabhupāda, sounds very beautiful. It's very first class when it's finally edited. The whole staff is here, and it sounds very nice.

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In the horoscope we have dragged the life through so many catastrophes, but ultimately how long the life we have dragged?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As far as I recall... The horoscope is written in such a way that if you survive these catastrophes, then it mentions that... He said that you would live for another five or six years.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Tulasī dāsa has sent different things. Here's a news clipping from the Leader. It's a newspaper. It says, "Hare Kṛṣṇa festivity. All roads lead to the Hare Kṛṣṇa farm āśrama at Cato Ridge last Sunday where thousands of well-wishers and devotees celebrated Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. His Holiness Śrīmān Jayatīrtha dāsa Prabhu came out especially from the United States for the occasion and to officiate at the opening of the new temple of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." One picture shows the devotees... It says, "Members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness and followers of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda lead the crowd in the singing of Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana. In the foreground is the havana-kuṇḍa on which the sacrificial prayer was performed prior to the opening of the new temple. A view of the large gathering...," it shows thousands of people, Śrīla Prabhupāda, "...at the Hare Kṛṣṇa farm āśrama at Cato Ridge at the weekend when the new temple was officially opened. The function was held in conjunction with Lord Kṛṣṇa's birth anniversary celebrations." Here's the temple. "Head of the group, Tulasī dāsa, seen with other devotees in front of their new temple." It's a very beautiful temple with pillars and arches. I don't know how they built it so soon. (laughs) It's a big temple they built there. It says, "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness, more widely known as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, opened its temple to coincide with the celebration of the birth of Lord Kṛṣṇa. This birthday celebration..." (break) Here's another article, pictures of devotees opening the temple. Another article. "Śrīmān Jayatīrtha dāsa Prabhu, one of the top officials..."

Prabhupāda: Still, they criticize us. Hm? Affirmations(?) good character, good health...

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Can't read it? Okay. Is there a flashlight? The heading, Śrīla Prabhupāda, says, "The nonphysical view on the origin of species." Nonphysical view. "Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group, life is derived from atoms and molecules. The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957. But the challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' " The challengers don't accept it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here the challengers want some solid proof that life comes from matter. They're not willing to be duped simply by this man's statement. They want to see some real examples. "At a three-day international conference on 'Life Comes from Life' at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed..." Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you want it Bhaktivedanta Institute or Bhaktivedanta Swami?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Don't bother to come here, then.

Brahmānanda: But they treated you with much respect, though. They said that they had wanted Your Divine Grace to come because you are also a member of their steering committee. (indistinct) They also had a proposal to produce a series of different books, small books, pamphlets, forty, fifty pages, comprising selections from the Bhagavad-gītā. And these would be for specific types of persons. The books would be Bhagavad-gītā for students, Bhagavad-gītā for businessmen, Bhagavad-gītā for scientists, like that. So they want us to produce the book for the scientists, taking various quotes from Bhagavad-gītā with a short explanation of the verse. So I said one problem is that all the different groups who are assembled here will all have different interpretations of the verses. What about this? And they said, "No, no, we shouldn't interpret." I said, "Well, one reason that the young people are not taking up this Bhagavad-gītā is because they see that everyone is giving a different interpretation. Nobody is presenting it as it is, so they're confused." I was in Kashmir, I was speaking with some young boys. They were telling me they're confused by religion. They don't respect the paṇḍitas in the temples—they're all simply after money. They have no respect for religion, Hindu religion. So I mentioned this to all of them. They are all Māyāvādīs. And they argued with me. I presented arguments. They would not accept it.

Prabhupāda: They want to avoid criticism.

Brahmānanda: I argued right back with them. I said, "You..." They were saying that we shouldn't interpret Bhagavad-gītā. I said, "Then why are you saying that Kṛṣṇa means 'divine consciousness'? Where does Kṛṣṇa say 'divine consciousness'? He says, mām, aham. He doesn't say 'divine consciousness.' He says 'to Me.' "

Prabhupāda: And all the ācāryas say. We have to follow the ācāryas. Very good. They do not answer. And they... Is it not?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise what you will do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, originally you had intended that that hall would be used for Svarūpa Dāmodara's scientists and for our theater group and things like that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but are you going to have every day?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I know that they won't. They cannot do that. I mean practically they won't.

Bhavānanda: It's possible, but...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it would have to take a tremendous endeavor on the part of our movement, and our movement is not... We're not geared to do that.

Prabhupāda: It is like tenant house. So whoever pays to your satisfaction, you give him for one day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that all right with you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I don't think it is wrong.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, here. We... Just describe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We had a science conference here in Gurukula just about a little more than a week ago.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Here in this new building?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the same building, at the same hall that you're going to hold your conference. I invited several scholars, scientists around Delhi and Agra. Also Śrīla Prabhupāda's disciples, scientist disciples, came from around the world. The basic theme was to show that life is coming from the supreme life. In other words everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa. But modern science says that we are just product of atoms and molecules.

Haṁsadūta: This is an article which was published in The Statesman, October 22nd, which covers this meeting. It says, "The Nonphysical View on the Origin of Species. Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group life is..." (break)

(Bhakti-caru and kavirāja-Bengali to end)

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gaura-govinda: I talked with that Śyāmasundara and Anantadeva. He said thirty-six groups are there, nirjoks, pāṇḍā groups. And administrator is there. They want something and all groups want something. (whispering) One lakh of rupee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lakh of rupees to see Jagannātha. But we can see Jagannātha in any temple in the world. Why do we have to pay one lakh of rupees? Śrīla Prabhupāda? I was saying that we don't have to pay one lakh of rupees to see Lord Jagannātha in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Let them pray to Jagannātha for my cure immediately, or as soon as possible, I shall do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they pray to Lord Jagannātha for your cure...

Bhavānanda: Immediately or as soon as possible, then he'll do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. First they should do the praying.

Prabhupāda: Let me be in health. Then I'll do that.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who is Anantadeva?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "Who is Anantadeva?"

Gaura-govinda: Anantadeva... They have written letters to you, from that Śyāmasundara Brahmacārī and Anantadeva.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Anantadeva is connected with which group?

Gaura-govinda: He is a disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta or Bhaktisiddhānta's disciple's disciple?

Gaura-govinda: No, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Directly.

Gaura-govinda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gaura-govinda Mahārāja says he is your Godbrother, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's thirty-six pāṇḍās?

Gaura-govinda: Thirty-six groups nirjoks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nirjok?

Gaura-govinda: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...moment I am sick. When I am well enough, I shall do something. Hm? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Right where the, where we want to put the temple. It must be a group of men that the prices vary per bighā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why not purchase?

Śatadhanya: Jayapatākā Mahārāja is very anxious to purchase that land. It's exactly where the site for the big temple, at that location. Fifteen bighās.

Prabhupāda: Whether he can purchase?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whether he can purchase? If you don't go to Māyāpur, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all of Māyāpur will come here to be with you. Now, if you get a little stronger, we can go.

Śatadhanya: Even the airport officials were disappointed. They were saying, "Where is our Guru Mahārāja?" I was shocked to hear them saying. "Where is our Guru Mahārāja?" They had purchased very nice fruits and vegetables of all different varieties, and Prabhupāda could choose which he liked-portal, jinga, so many things.

Prabhupāda: What other news?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What other news?

Śatadhanya: Everything is very nice there, very organized.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: In regard to the three-year visas, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa has secured that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually he did not secure it, because it's been given to all religious groups in India. Girirāja informed me. It's being given to all religious groups in India, that they can get three years. The government has passed it. It wasn't specially for us.

Jayapatākā: Hindu, Muslim?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone. Any of these groups that have foreign people in it now will be allowed to stay. It's a general decision. It wasn't...

Jayapatākā: Not of ISKCON.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to take rest now?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. They must be tired. They traveled all night long. The kavirāja didn't sleep at all, I heard. Is that true, Jayapatākā?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The flight was three hours delayed. Three hours he was sitting, and he didn't leave Calcutta... 8:00 flight left at 10:30, 11:00, and arrived in Delhi 1:00. Then it took to 5:00 to get here, so he's quite tired.

Prabhupāda: It did not start on time.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: She's also connected with that Parents for Kṛṣṇa? There's one parent's group called Parents for Kṛṣṇa?

Citsukhānanda: Parents for Kṛṣṇa, yes. She assists in that Parents for Kṛṣṇa group.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is your magic touch, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Anyone who contacts you becomes a devotee. You're just like the associates of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Whoever saw them...

Prabhupāda: She's already a good lady. Otherwise how she can have such nice son? (laughter)

Citsukhānanda: I asked her if she had met you, Prabhupāda. I asked Jayapatākā's mother if she had met you, and she said, "Yes..."

Prabhupāda: A fortunate lady. All your mothers, they are all fortu...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I remember some parents used to come, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Los Angeles while you were sitting in the garden in the evening. Once in a while, some parents would come and appreciate you so much that you've trained their sons and daughters to become a human being.

Prabhupāda: Tenants?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The parents used to come in Los Angeles in the evening while you were sitting in the garden.

Prabhupāda: Which garden?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You take four brāhmaṇas from South India, four from Vṛndāvana, and four from...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay.

Prabhupāda: In this way, make it gorgeous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm just thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that each of these brāhmaṇas have their own style and method, and by bringing three different groups, it will be a..., you know, there may be some disagreement amongst them.

Prabhupāda: Go on like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who should be... They will adjust. Each one should have a head brāhmaṇa plus three other assistants.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: Yaśodānandana should be head.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How many carts you have?

Lokanātha: I got just one today, one for you, and those who serve you, they could also sit besides you in the cart, and the rest could do kīrtana around the bullock cart, and the whole unit, bullock cart and saṅkīrtana group, will move together.

Prabhupāda: So what we have to pay?

Lokanātha: We'll pay hundred rupees, one day. Of course, you want to have it for all the time. Best thing is to purchase a set of bullocks, two bullocks, and a cart.

Prabhupāda: You have got experience.

Lokanātha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is better?

Lokanātha: Well, depends on whether we like to use it for longer time. Then we should purchase. If it is just for a few days, best thing is to hire.

Prabhupāda: Hundreds rupees and food.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are coming back?

Lokanātha: Yes, we came back from saṅkīrtana. We had kīrtana in the town, Vṛndāvana, Loi Bazaar and Banke Bihārī temple, that route. We had a bullock cart filled in with Gurukula school children, and there was a big group of devotees chanting and dancing in front of the cart, and there was also van, making announcement, inviting people for our afternoon program of ārati, kīrtana, and prasādam distribution.

Prabhupāda: So go.

Lokanātha: No, we already did. I announced, and we also had kīrtana. It was very ecstatic. Thirty, forty devotees came, and it was very, very nice. Wherever we stopped, people gathered around us in a big number, enjoyed kīrtana and heard announcements about the program. So I just came back.

Prabhupāda: And prasādam?

Lokanātha: Prasādam will be served out to the guests after this ārati. Twelve o'clock is ārati. And then we'll be serving out prasādam to the guests first. When everyone is served, we'll eat the remnants.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The devotees aren't going to take the feast also?

Lokanātha: Yes, remnants of the Lord.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, the remnants of the Deities.

Prabhupāda: What is the time now?

Lokanātha: Now, 11:35.

Prabhupāda: You have got all in your charge.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They'll give us description of the land, and before our going, they'll make a camp. Small, big, that doesn't matter. And in the morning, the former camp broken, and go to the next camp with kīrtana. In the meantime the other camp is ready to receive you. Then the next camp, after taking prasādam, they'll go to the next camp.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you follow this, Lokanātha? Do you have a question to ask?

Lokanātha: So there is a smaller group going in advance, and bigger group with you stays back.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: Yes, and they go, fix the place, and inform your party where they are and what kind of arrangement they have made. And when you are satisfied, you leave that place to join the first group, small group, advance party. Right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And after Prabhupāda joins that group, then the advance party goes again.

Lokanātha: To the next place, to make further arrangements at the next place.

Prabhupāda: In this way.

Lokanātha: Ye. This kind of program we have done before also. Whenever we had big group traveling, we always send two devotees out, or sometimes four devotees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We also did that with our Rādhā-Dāmodara program. That is the way of traveling-advance booking.

Lokanātha: Yes, so the main party does not lose time in finding or looking for the place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not inconvenienced in any way.

Lokanātha: Right. So that advance party could wait at the gate of the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wherever. But that's the idea.

Prabhupāda: And when you go in procession, have kīrtana.