Prabhupāda: The American atom bomb or the Russian atom bomb will kill the whole material scientists' advancement. You see? So this is the... So, and devotees, they want to decrease the fever. Decrease the fever. Therefore the highest, ideal life, according to Vedic civilization: brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇava. They decrease their demands of the body. Minimum demand. You see? There is amongst the brāhmaṇa, not now, in the Vedic system, the uñca-vṛtti. It is called uñca-vṛtti. Uñca-vṛtti means they will go the paddy field, and after the cultivator takes all the paddies, some paddies are thrown away. They will collect those paddies only. Just like birds, they collect. They collect those paddies, and that they will eat, not even beg, ask anybody for any morsel of food. So completely... And in the Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that "Oh, this open field is your bed, this is your pillow, this is your pot, and the water in river is sufficient water, the tree is full of fruits, and in the cave, there is sufficient apartment. So why should you go, anyone, to ask for your shelter, for your food?"
Cultivation (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"cultivable"
|"cultivatable"
|"cultivate"
|"cultivated"
|"cultivates"
|"cultivating"
|"cultivation"
|"cultivations"
|"cultivator"
|"cultivator's"
|"cultivators"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Revatīnandana: It's fundamentally a God conscious attitude, that this body, this human body is meant for spiritual realization. The fact that the body has got sexual desire, therefore we make a concession for that. We use it for begetting good children. If one wants to marry, he can marry and have good children, and raise them to love God. But the real purpose of human life is not just to enjoy sex life like the cats and dogs. Human life has got a higher purpose. So therefore we believe that our human energy should be utilized in that way, for reducing the eating, the sleeping, the sex life. Reducing these things to the minimum, as much as necessary, rather than as much as possible. And having as much as necessary, that leaves most of our time and energy for cultivating our God consciousness. See what I mean? Therefore the idea is that sex life is the highest happiness for man, we don't subscribe to that. It's the biggest happiness in this material world. But spiritual life means unending happiness. A human being can experience this. The dog or cat can't. So for them there is eating, sleeping, sex life, defending themselves. But a human being can experience higher pleasure in God consciousness. So we think that... Therefore we use our energy in that direction.
Sister Mary: So it isn't a negation of pleasure, but it's a higher pleasure.
Guest (2): Can I ask...
Prabhupāda: This is very important point, that we are not negating pleasure, but we are trying to bring them to the highest pleasure.
Śyāmasundara: The other day we were discussing Socrates. And Socrates' method was to bring the self under control by inspecting oneself, "Know thyself," and thereby be able, lead a moral life with self-respect and self-control. But Prabhupāda was saying that this is not an ordinary thing. Not many men can achieve this rational control. So by simply cultivating spirit, nourishing spiritual life, any man can control his senses.
Prabhupāda: Just like, somebody, there is a child, a child is active, but his frivolous activities, or mischievous, have to stop when he's active in taking education. You see. The same child, his energy for becoming active is transferred for taking education. He's no more acting mischievously breaking this, doing this, doing that. The activity is there. Now that is purified. Similarly, spiritual life means the spiritual activity, that is purified activity. These boys, they have given up drinking, meat-eating. That does not mean they stop eating. They're eating better things. Therefore they have given up the nonsense eating. So that is spiritual life. Spiritual life means activity purified.
Dr. Singh: (laughs) He did it.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) "Oh, you are so nice. Come on, take it." And there is another proverb in Bengal, (Bengali). (Bengali), the cultivator, what does he know about the taste of liquor? These are very instructive(?).
Śyāmasundara: The cultivator?
Prabhupāda: Cultivator. (indistinct)
Dr. Singh: That is before the days of country liquor.
Prabhupāda: If you give one bottle of John Walker...
Dr. Singh: (laughs) Johnnie.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Johnnie Walker? What is it?
English woman: I'm so surprised you know the name of that liquor.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am used to everything. (laughter)
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So the Indians who are outside India, they have got a special duty. So far our economic condition is concerned, as I explained yesterday, that one is destined to certain material comforts and discomforts, according to his body—already he has got. So either you stay in India or you stay in America, the bodily comforts or sense gratification, that will be achieved either in India or America. What you are destined to achieve, you will have it because as soon as your body is manufactured, your standard of comfort and discomfort is also manufactured. In Bengal there is a proverb that yethā deoyā bhange, kapāla yābe saṅge(?): "Wherever you go, your fortune will go with you." Fortune and misfortune, that will also go with you. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said one thing, that "Any Indian, any man who has taken birth on the soil of Bhāratavarṣa, India, he has got a special duty. And that duty is to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
- bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
- janma sārthaka kari kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
To do good to others, para-upakāra. So those Indians who are here, it is all right you are earning for some economic development, but at the same time, you try to make your life perfect by Kṛṣṇa consciousness and spread it to the foreigners as far as possible. That's your duty, not that, that you are getting decent salary than India, and enjoy life and forget your culture. That is suicidal. You have got a culture... So this culture is Vedic culture and Vedic culture means Kṛṣṇa conscious. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Vedic culture means to understand Kṛṣṇa. One who has not understood Kṛṣṇa, he has no Vedic culture. But every Indian is supposed to have Vedic culture. And to have Vedic culture means to understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all Indians, they should cultivate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness personally, make their life successful, and distribute it to the, our neighbors. Of course, I do not think... If you invite your neighbors, they do not come, you said?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now what is the explanation?
Scholar: Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gītā traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the king of all planets. This science is especially meant for the perfection of the inhabitants, and therefore, the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life...
Prabhupāda: This Vivasvān is the original person of the kṣatriya family, Sūrya-vaṁśa.
Scholar: Sūrya-vaṁśa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Eh?
Devotee: Does he mention Vivasvān here? Should I read it?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mahāprabhu?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. By mercy of spiritual master, the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, he gets the seed of devotional service, and if he cultivates, then his life becomes successful. Otherwise he has to rotate, sometimes up, sometimes down. Sometimes this grass, sometimes lion.
Paramahaṁsa: But ultimately if we come to Kṛṣṇa, there's no return. But nevertheless, Jagāi, and..., the two gatekeepers, they returned?
Prabhupāda: There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is.
Paramahaṁsa: If we want.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: It's the same thing I learned in Germany. First I wanted to get my own press and I studied the situation very carefully and I saw it was ridiculous for us to do that, it's so much hard work. It's much easier to collect the money in the street by giving the magazine and then paying someone. They work very hard and do it. Everything is like that. They have so many people that can do everything. The one thing that people can't do is distribute Kṛṣṇa consciousness and for that Kṛṣṇa's giving so much money.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. That verse. Only for this purpose one should endeavor.
Haṁsadūta: Yes. Kṛṣṇa (indistinct) paying for that.
Prabhupāda: You cannot purchase Kṛṣṇa consciousness—you can have money—that you have to cultivate.
Revatīnandana: Yeah, when Mr. Birla is getting old then he has to come to us, if he has any sense.
Prabhupāda: No they say, they simply give primary education (indistinct) they can read, that's all. And (indistinct). They don't send because everyone knows that sending boys to the school means spoil them. That's all. I have seen intelligent boys, they go to school and he is spoiled. Yes, spoiled. He learns how to smoke, how to have sex, how to talk nonsense, how to use knife, how to fight, these things. At least at the present moment. Yes. Simply slaughterhouse, this so-called school is called slaughterhouse. Yes, slaughterhouse.
Pradyumna:
- tejaḥ kṣamā dhṛtiḥ śaucam
- adroho nātimānitā
- bhavanti sampadaṁ daivīm
- abhijātasya bhārata
"Translation: The Blessed Lord said, fearlessness, purification of one's existence, cultivation of spiritual knowledge, charity, self-control, performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity, nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger, renunciation, tranquility, aversion to faultfinding, compassion and freedom from covetousness, gentleness, modesty and steady determination, vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor, these transcendental qualities, O son of Bhārata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature."
Prabhupāda: Then the demonic nature?
Pradyumna: Then,
- dambho darpo 'bhimānaś ca
- krodhaḥ pāruṣyam eva ca
- ajñānaṁ cābhijātasya
- pārtha sampadam āsurīm
"Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance, these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Pṛthā."
Prabhupāda: Then characteristics of demonic people?
Prabhupāda: ...in this way a living entity is wandering, but by fortune, if he gets in touch, guru-kṛṣṇa, a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, a guru, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart, then he gets the seed of devotional service. And if he cultivates that devotional service, then he goes. This is the process. Not that because one has suffered so much, therefore automatically.
Woman: No, no.
Prabhupāda: No, not that.
Man: Swamiji, my wife is tired, I think. She's had a long day today. May I have your permission...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Man: ...to take her home?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Man: Thank you very much. It's been a great joy for me and for my wife to be with you.
Prabhupāda: (softly to devotee) Give them this flower. One. Yes. No.
Devotee: One?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Take another.
Ambassador: I heard about it.
Prabhupāda: I was invited there to speak: "East and West." So I explained that so far we are concerned, we have no such thing as east and west. But still, there is difference between east and west that in the Eastern countries, especially in India, even in the remotest part of the village, a cultivator, poor cultivator, he'll understand God consciousness very easily. And so far in the West, I talked with Professor Kotofsky... Perhaps you know.
Ambassador: Yes. In Oriental Institute.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He said, "Swamiji, after this body's finished, everything is finished." You see? Such a big professor. He...
Ambassador: That is Marxist materialism.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ambassador: It is Marxist materialism.
Prabhupāda: But Marxist materialism, does it mean a congregation of some fools and rascals?
Ambassador: I think so, true.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean they like that some congregation of fools and rascals? Such a big professor, he does not know, he cannot understand even that there is life after death. He has to accept another body. As we are accepting different bodies. I was a child. You were a child. Then I became a boy. That is different body. Different consciousness also. A child, three-four years, he talks in a different way. A boy, ten-twelve years, he talks in a different way, and a young man, educated young man, he talks in a different way. So with the change of the body, the consciousness is changing. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: There are two things. One material, one spiritual. Spiritually, India is happy, those who are actually spiritualists. But materially, India is unhappy. Spiritually, even if you still go in the interior of village, poor man, living in a cottage, he is taking bath three times and doing his professional work, a cultivator, having little food, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. They are happy actually. They have got their family, husband, wife, some children. If one lives spiritual life, he is actually happy. Materially, nobody can be happy. In your country, although there is enough facility for material enjoyment, actually they are not happy. Otherwise why in your country the hippies are coming out? They are coming from respectable, rich parents, nation, but they have given up their home, their father's opulence, mother's opulence. That I have seen practically. Practically all my students... Here, Brahmānanda, his father, at least he was a big industrialist, mother. But he did not like. He joined this movement. Similarly, Girirāja, his father is a big lawyer, rich man. But he did not like that. There are many, many students, their father's are... Śyāmasundara's father is big lawyer, rich man, businessman. He is the only son. But he did not like his father. So there are many... Even though he is not our student, still, I do not know. I have seen in Los Angeles, Beverly Hills. You know? That is a rich quarter. Very nice house. And one boy is coming, he is hippie, and riding on his car and going. Then I saw, although it is such a nice rich quarter, there are also hippies. That I could study. Why these boys are becoming hippies? And New York you know, the hippies are lying here and there in Fifth Avenue, Central Park, and they are worshiping pig. (laughs) You know that?
Banker: Yes, I know.
Prajāpati: Then they can say, "Well if we can cure this blood disease, he will live."
Prabhupāda: There was one physician in Dacca. He was... Morning, he was washing his face. So one man was going, and he was coughing. So he asked that man, "Come here. Where you are going?" So he was a cultivator—"I am going to the field." So he said, "Better go home. Don't go to the field." So he was a respectable physician, so he went back. So his students asked that, "How is that, you asked him to go home?" So he chastised his stu..., "You do not know that he is coughing and the sound is like this? He will die after eight hours." It is experience. The students did not know but he could understand, "Coughing under such and such sound, it means death after such and such time." Yes. That, kavirāja can tell. When my father died, the kavirāja said, "Now you can do the rituals because he will die before next morning." He said. And actually it so happened. He said me this about ten, eleven o'clock, and he said exactly, "Before next morning he'll die." So that is experience. If you say, "After twenty days the month of January is coming," the child cannot understand, "How father said that twenty days after, January is coming?" But it is better experience only that one can say, "Today is 10th, and after twenty days, 1st January, will come." Everything is experience but supreme experience is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore if we receive experience from Him, then our experience becomes perfect. This is our proposal.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pañcadraviḍa: ...even he may be employed as factory worker or something.
Prabhupāda: Well, if you take factory workers are better than animals, that is another thing.
Nitāi: One point that you made a few years ago in Vṛndāvana was that this demoniac civilization, especially in U.S.A., keeps a man so much engaged, they make them work so hard, just to earn the simple necessities of life, that they don't have time to cultivate spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Well, if he likes, he can get time because he is not in the factory twenty-four hours. But if one... That is explained, apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any material condition. If anyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is not checked. So there is nothing impediment, provided he wants to become. In any condition of life, sthane sthitaḥ, if he simply hears about Kṛṣṇa then everything is all right. He will gradually catch up everything and adjust things. But if he has no ears to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then it is difficult. Therefore śravaṇam. The first thing is that. The first qualification—he must be eager to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will come. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23).
Prabhupāda: That was to irritate Indra. (laughter)
Satsvarūpa: But they take that argument of His. Where is the proof that the rains are controlled by God?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Kṛṣṇa says the rain will come, but Kṛṣṇa never says that without rain you can cultivate. So Kṛṣṇa's purpose was because I am the Supreme Lord, Indra will supply, his father will supply." So that is another thing. Kṛṣṇa never said that "Without rain, you can cultivate." Never said.
Yogeśvara: Well, what if they argue that "Whether we perform yajña or not, these rains will go on. They are coming now and we are not performing yajña."
Prabhupāda: "Because I will order. You are already performing yajña, worshiping Me, loving Me." That is Kṛṣṇa's purpose. Tasmiṁs tuṣṭe jagat tuṣṭa. If you satisfy Kṛṣṇa, Indra's father will be satisfied. Just like if you water on the root of the tree, all the Indras, as branches and leaves and foliage, they will be satisfied. That is the purpose. Kṛṣṇa wanted to impress this that "You simply love Me, and everything will be supplied."
Devotee: Why is it that the rains come in certain parts of the world and in other parts people do not have enough?
Prabhupāda: No, no part of the world is nowadays sufficient rain. Because they are not performing yajña. Sometimes it is seen that over-rain, overflood, not systematic. But if you perform yajña, there will be systematic rainfall, which you can utilize properly. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14).
Bhagavān: This is nice here, this ground.
Yogeśvara: The land in the Vedic culture, some of it was...?
Prabhupāda: Land belongs to the king, and you take land for cultivation, and you pay 25% tax to the king. That's all. All taxes. If you don't produce, then don't pay tax.
Yogeśvara: Oh, it wasn't forced that you had to pay so much.
Prabhupāda: No.
Atreya Ṛṣi: You pay 25% of what you have produced.
Prabhupāda: What you have produced, that's all. Very simple thing. Everyone was engaged producing. There was no necessity. And here the rascals are advising, produce bolts and nuts, tire, and drill petrol. They are not producing food. And the so-called government men, they are levying taxes, and they are enjoying. They haven't got to produce food. They are killing animals, eating, and digesting with wine. And then woman. That's all. This is their business. And food price is increasing daily. They don't mind because they will print paper, and to the supplier they will give paper. That's all.
Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, there was a French philosopher, Voltaire. He said you should not simply criticize negatively, because this is the best of all the possible worlds there is. This is all we have. So they would criticize that our hope in the spiritual world is utopian. Better turn to cultivate the material world as best you can.
Prabhupāda: No, material world we can see that it is useless. Everyone sees. That I am giving, this example. Before, the Romans, they constructed this big, big building. Now what is the value of that? It has no value. Simply it is kept as sentiment, relics. That's all. So this will be also the same thing. So where is the utility? Spiritual, apart from spiritual, what is the value of your material activity? It is practical. Everyone can see. If one comes to Rome, they can see that these big, big buildings, they were very nice building at that time, very wonderful building, but what is the value of it now? Anyone can see. Any sane man can see. So why should we waste our energy in that way? If there is any valuable work, let us see. That is intelligence. To make another heaps of relics, is that very good sense? Nobody will go there even to urine or pass stool.
Prabhupāda: It was right. (break)
Yogeśvara: ...did in such a way that crops can be grown anywhere? Can crops be grown anywhere in the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If it does not grow, then what is nature's arrangement?
Yogeśvara: Well, for example, there are some parts in India that are too dry to cultivate the ground.
Prabhupāda: Dry means there is no rain. If natures like, there can be profuse rain. That is nature's arrangement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Parjanyāt. You must have sufficient rain. And for having sufficient rain, you must execute yajña. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). So these people are now becoming rascals. They are not performing yajñas. They are opening slaughterhouse. How there will be rain? Instead of performing yajñas, they are opening big, big slaughterhouse.
Bhagavān: I think now in many parts of the world the desert is increasing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, desert will increase.
Yogeśvara: (reads purport in French)
Prabhupāda: So far I have studied... I am traveling all over the world. It is my calculation that we can produce food to give food ten times of the population if we properly utilize the whole planet according to this-produce food. Why because the milk is produced more, the cows should be slaughtered when there is a need of milk? It is so nice foodstuff. So on account of this false nationalism, "This is my land, this is my land, this is my land..." And why not take it as God's land and produce enough foodstuff. There will be no scarcity. There will be no skeleton. And distribute it. Where is that consciousness? There is so much land uncultivated all over the world, especially in America, in Australia, and in Africa, so much, huge land, no cultivation. They are keeping some cows and slaughtering them and exporting. What is this? Why don't you produce food?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: He says all of these things, they are known. They know there's enough land and all these nonsense things are happening. He says simply to give this...
Prabhupāda: And therefore knowledge is required.
Professor Durckheim: That's our work we are trying to do.
Prabhupāda: So Absolute Truth is realized in three aspect. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Some realize the Absolute Truth as impersonal Brahman, others realize the Absolute Truth as localized Paramātmā, situated in everyone's heart, and the final realization is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we are cultivating the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So which aspect you are cultivating, the Paramātmā or the impersonal Brahman or the Personality of Godhead?
Professor Durckheim: You can't help cultivate all three in the long run.
Prabhupāda: No, all three are one. But it is the angle of vision only. Just like a mountain—somebody from distant place looking, hazy clouds, something. The mountain is the same, but from long distance one realizes as hazy cloud. Little more nearer, they realize something green. And if somebody goes in the mountain, he realizes the mountain and the animals and the residential place, everything. The objective is the same, but the angle of vision different. So in India or everywhere, some realizing the Absolute Truth as impersonal, without any variegatedness.
Prabhupāda: About?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. India, formerly your country was part of India and you belonged to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Aryan? So Aryan culture was practically all over the world. Aryan culture.
Guest: Krs then as attractiveness and as cultivator. In Greek my name is also cultivator.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: In Greek, the origin of my name is cultivator. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And there is a Greek word for Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is a word in Greek. He is called Kristo. Kṛṣṇa is sometimes pronounced by ordinary man as Kristo and that Kristo word means love. That is the other Greek word and from that Kristo, the word Christ has come.
Guest: (indistinct) Yes.
Prabhupāda: So there is some connection with Kṛṣṇa (indistinct). What is that?
Guest: There are so many parallels between Kṛṣṇa and Christ.
Prabhupāda: So many.
Prabhupāda: This is the cycle, that we should produce immense food grain both for the animals and for men. And there should be cooperation. Just like the cow and bull. The bull helps plowing. That is the original system. Now they have invented tractors, what is called? Tractor?
Madhudviṣa: Cultivators.
Prabhupāda: And the bulls are being killed. Why they should be killed? Engage them in tilling the field. They will have occupation. And the man also will have occupation. There is immense land. So there will be no question of unemployment. And the machine, it works hundreds of men's labor and hundreds of men become unemployed. So unemployed means devil's workshop.
Prabhupāda: The land is not suitable?
Madhudviṣa: Well, in Australia there is vast areas which cannot be cultivated, like deserts and semi-deserts. The gentleman's contention is that if we try to grow grains in a semi-desert area it would throw off the balance of the natural, the natural pulse of the earth, let us say, and it would cause havoc in other fields. One of the basic things that our spiritual master is putting forward is that if we put an emphasis on producing food grains and milk and vegetables to live on, concentrating on those points instead of complicating our lives with great industries for cosmetics and film industries and things that are really not essential to us... There's people that don't have the essentials and other people who have all the trappings of the modern technological science. Our spiritual master's contention is that real happiness lies in simple living and high thinking and this is the education that we're trying to put forward. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...these are all misconceptions because I am not this body. I am spirit soul. When the spirit soul goes away, then where is the distinction? Suppose in hospital some Hindu dies or some Muslim dies, some Christian die, the spirit... They are stacked together as useless matter. Is it not? There is no distinction there now, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, white, black. Now it is dead body, put aside. Eh? So, but when living, when the spirit soul is there, they are dividing, this designation. So this knowledge that so long the spirit soul is there in the body, it is important. As soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. But people are giving more stress on the body than on the active principle, living force, what is there. There is no study. Suppose you are all scientists. What is your studying about that living force that is moving the body?
Prabhupāda: Nature. Nature is giving us different body. I am the spirit soul. Because I have accepted natural, the material nature's protection, I am getting different types of body. This life I have got this body, next life I may get another body. That is explained. Tathā dehāntara prāpti. We have to accept another body. Now you are scientist, next life you may be different. You may have a different body. Where is that science? Here is the information. But where is the science cultivated in the universities, education. There is no science, but this is a fact.
Guest (2): Well, it's just on five. Do you want to sneak in one?
Madhudviṣa: These are preparations which is prepared from Australian milk.
Prabhupāda: Let him take. Yes.
Guest (2): Oh, thank you.
Madhudviṣa: Give a napkin. It's a sweet preparation called gulab jamin. It is all prepared just from milk which has been made into curd, and then the curd has been fried in ghee, cooking ghee, and then after it has been fried, it has been soaked in sweet water and it is very palatable. It's called a gulab jamin. It is a very famous delicacy of Indian cooking. It requires great skill and art to prepare these. And as our spiritual master said, there is actually hundreds and hundreds of food which can be prepared from this, like the cheese you have there. Even cooking cheese and spicing it with asafoetida and ginger, meat taste can be simulated very, very nicely.
Prabhupāda: This cheese as it is you take, it is as beneficial as meat.
Madhudviṣa: One thing that we would like to mention, as our spiritual master says, there is a definite, according to the Vedic scripture, there is a definite link between consumption of milk and development of fine brain tissues. And if your department of knowledge has some research in that area, we think it would be a great service to mankind if they can be informed how they can develop fine brain tissues. Fine brain tissues which are needed for coping with the problems of this day and age. Not that simply if I disagree with you we'll just fight. There has to be fine brain tissues in order to say, "Let us sit down and talk about this together." And we say, not we, but according to the scripture, there is a definite link between the consumption of milk products, not just milk, but cheese and all different milk products, the consumption of milk products and development of the necessary intellect. This is why, as our spiritual master said, the highly intelligent people of India have lived predominantly, not just drinking milk, but everything they ate was cooked in milk products. The vegetables, rice, even if rice was boiled, milk was put on, ghee was put on the rice. So that is like an unavoidable essential in their diet, not simply from the palatable standpoint, but actually from the relationship between the physical and the metaphysical progress.
Prabhupāda: And thousands of tons of ghee, clarified butter, was offered in the yajña. The smoke created a kind of cloud which is very good for cultivation.
Guest (2): Well, thank you...
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. (end)
Prabhupāda: There are so many vegetables.
Bali Mardana: If vegetables are not available.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: They don't have to cultivate seaweed. They just take.
Jayatīrtha: They have to go diving with lungs and tanks to collect it rather than plough the earth.
Rāmeśvara: They consider it a delicacy in the restaurants for the macrobiotic people, the young people who are into health foods. It's a health food. It's a delicacy.
Prabhupāda: This is also eaten. (laughter) Yes. This is eaten by the Japanese. They eat it.
Bali Mardana: They say it contains much iodine, certain minerals.
Prabhupāda: They make some food and it is sold. What is called, that? They make some cakes by soaking in the water.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dayānanda: Is it also mentioned that in other places in our śāstra?
Prabhupāda: There are many places. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...is given for practicing God consciousness, and they have become advanced civilized, they are cultivating nudie-ism. Is it not? Nudie-ism. So the punishment is that "All right, you become nudie, you remain standing in one place, for five thousand years." (laughter) That is right. The trees live up till five thousand years. They live.
Viṣṇujana: Prabhupāda? But they argue that if God wanted us to wear clothes He would have made us with clothes. But He made us without clothes, so...
Prabhupāda: The thing is that here material world means that whatever you want, you have to work for it. That is material world. Things are there, but you have to work for it. In the spiritual world there is no need of working. You get all necessities. That is the difference.
Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is scientific, authorized. People has to give little attention. Then they will understand. Therefore we are publishing so many books, only about Kṛṣṇa. In every page you will find "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." Either in Kṛṣṇa book or in Caitanya-caritāmṛta or in the Bhāgavata or in The Nectar of Devotion or in Teachings of Lord Caitanya, the word is Kṛṣṇa. That is simply explained in different way.
Ambassador: What does the word actually mean? Kṛ is the root for "making," isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa? Yes, kṛṣ. Kṛṣ means karṣati, "attraction" or "cultivating." "Cultivation." Just like cultivator, he, digging the earth, that is also karṣati. And there is another word in Bhagavad-gītā, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi..., karsati. Find out this verse. Manaḥ-saṣṭhāni indriyāṇi prakṛti-sthani karṣati. Fifteenth Chapter. Karṣati. That is from kṛṣ.
Ambassador: Kṛṣ, then, has attractiveness and it has cultivator.
Prabhupāda: And cultivating, yes.
Ambassador: Yes. In Greek my name is also "cultivate." In Greek the origin of my name is "cultivate." Gheragoss.(?)
Prabhupāda: And this Greek work is kristo. There is a word in Greek. It is called kristo. And Kṛṣṇa is sometimes pronounced by ordinary man as Krsta. And that kristo word means "love," if I am not wrong, that Greek word. And from that kristo the word Christ has come.
Haṁsadūta: And she says the second aspect of her questioning will be the practical side of it, like feeding the people here, like feeding the people here, what we are actually doing, like building this house, feeding the people in the neighboring towns, or teaching them English or teaching them how to cultivate the land, like that.
Prabhupāda: Our... You take answer one after another.
Haṁsadūta: Yes...
Prabhupāda: Not put all the questions.
Haṁsadūta: So you can begin.
Prabhupāda: Our ideal is that we have got this body, and there are some bodily necessities. That is the prime necessities. So we do not neglect these necessities of the body. But our culture is spiritual culture. Generally, people, being disturbed by the bodily necessities, they do not inquire about the spiritual identity. Actually this is the distinction between human life and animal life. (Hindi) (break) Our real purpose of this mission is to educate people about his spiritual identity. All people, they are misguided by the idea-(aside:) Don't do—that he is this body, everyone, all over the world, especially in the Western countries.
Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to understand that we... There are many sources of knowledge, but the summary is that knowledge gathered by experience and knowledge gathered by, through authority. So both knowledge is helping me about the change of body. So how can you deny it? And still, if you remain ignorant, then you are foolish. How you can say there is no life after death? I am giving you evidence by experience and by authority. Then mostly, perhaps you have got experience of the... In the, especially in the Western countries... Here, if you ask ordinary cultivator, he'll believe: "Yes, there is life." They they are philosopher. "Yes, in my past life I did something wrong. Therefore I am suffering. And if I do wrong, I'll suffer in my next life." You'll get this knowledge even from the cultivator. This is India.
Girl: India has the knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who is born in India, he has got immediately this knowledge. He immediately knows there is God. That is the advantage of taking birth in India. What it will take hundreds of years to understand, they understand it by the birth. You have seen, so many thousands of people came. So the... Apart from this, the whole world, they do not believe that there is soul and after annihilation of this body, we shall get another body, another chapter of life. They do not believe it.
Prabhupāda: Do you (indistinct) ...the mango trees now? Some of the trees (indistinct), the lemon tree, stunted. In Japan they grow many trees.
Devotee: In Japan they cultivate trees to be like that, very small. They have little orange trees. Orange trees are this big, orange trees.
Prabhupāda: They are also becoming oranges. Japanese enjoy.
Haṁsadūta: The Japanese and Chinese are very, very small.
Prabhupāda: Did it...? (break) ...special. There is a proverb, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman kalki chele busi... (?) A brāhmaṇa, black... Brāhmaṇa's another name is śukla, white. So as soon as a brāhmaṇa is black then he's (indistinct) kalo brāhmaṇa. Kota śūdra, and śūdra, just like African, if they become white there is something mystery. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, Mohammedan, because Mohammedan means the Afghans, they are very tall, so a Mussulman is dwarf, a brāhmaṇa is black, the śūdra is white, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman and kalki chelo, that means the bastard and (indistinct) ...these are all of the same class. Adopted son, he gets money, without any labor, he spends like anything. In your country there is adopted son?
Devotee: Yeah, yeah.
Paramahaṁsa: Actually, I noticed that myself so many times in the way you handle money and the managerial affairs, very expert.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Śrī-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale, svayaṁ rūpa gosvāmī. Who established the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was minister. He was not a cultivator, plow department.
Paramahaṁsa: It's very difficult in Kali-yuga to get the advanced materialists such as ministers and big businessmen...
Prabhupāda: You can convert. It is not difficulty. How the Rūpa Gosvāmī was converted? Because the expert man... That person was Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So if you become expert, you can convert. How this governor was coming, how these politicians were coming?
Paramahaṁsa: Because you're the expert.
Prabhupāda: It is not just we. You have to become expert to convert another expert. If you are not experienced, how you can convert others?
Paramahaṁsa: Is it true that you will end up converting people according to your own..., in other words, you convert people of your own caliber?
Prabhupāda: Not own caliber, any caliber. That requires expert management.
Prabhupāda: Purport?
Amogha: Purport: "The constitution of Brahman is immortality, imperishability, eternity, and happiness. Brahman is the beginning of transcendental realization; Paramātmā, the Supersoul, is the middle, the second stage in transcendental realization; and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate realization of the Absolute Truth. Therefore both Paramātmā and the impersonal Brahman are within the Supreme Person. It is explained in the seventh chapter that material nature is a manifestation of the inferior energy of the Supreme Lord. The Lord impregnates the inferior material nature with the fragments of the superior nature, and that is the spiritual touch in the material nature. When a living entity, conditioned by this material nature, begins the cultivation of spiritual knowledge, he elevates himself from the position of material existence and gradually rises up to the Brahman conception of the Supreme. This attainment of the Brahman conception of life is the first stage of self-realization. At this stage, the Brahman-realized person is transcendental to the material position, but he is not actually perfect in Brahman realization. If he works, he can continue to stay in the Brahman position and then gradually rise up to the Paramatama realization and then to the realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are many examples of this in Vedic literature. The four Kumaras were situated first in the impersonal Brahman conception of truth, but then they gradually rose to the platform of devotional service. One who cannot elevate himself beyond the impersonal conception of Brahman runs the risk of falling down. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that although a person may rise to the stage of impersonal Brahman, without going further, with no information of the Supreme Person, his intelligence is not perfectly clear. Therefore, in spite of being raised to the Brahman platform, there is the chance of falling down if one is not engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. In the Vedic language it is also said, parasya vai samhi evāyam labhvāndamhī bhavati: when one understands the personality of God, the reservoir of pleasure, Kṛṣṇa, he actually becomes transcendentally blissful."
Prabhupāda: That is required. Our nature is blissfulness. Unless we reach Kṛṣṇa, talk with Him, dance with Him, eat with Him, enjoy life, our perfection is imperfect, not complete. Simply Brahman realization, just like simply to see, a child can see also the sunshine, but that does not mean he knows what is the sun, although the sunshine is coming from the sun. So unless you understand what is the actual sun, what is the person within the sun globe, our knowledge is imperfect. Simply realization of the big volume of sunshine, is not perfect. It is also light, and the sun globe is also light, heat. But this heat and light is not sufficient knowledge of the complete heat and light there. That is the difference between Brahman realization and God realization.
Prabhupāda: Without cooking.
Justin Murphy: No cooking. No cooking. Immediately, wiggling. The fresher the better. They used to eat small furry animals, bandicoots, wombats. There were no rabbits, of course, in those days. Rabbit has been a disaster introduced by man, by European man. But they used to occasionally pound the grass seeds from a few species of arid sand grasses and make a kind of an unleavened bread, which they would then bake. But generally the aborigines were nomadic, they were shifting, and they didn't cultivate. They didn't till the soil ever. But we must, whilst attempting to provide for the inevitable Australian people and the growth of population, we must also try to do that within the confines and the dictates of nature and the natural resources which we have. Australia is very rich in a lot of natural resources; it's very, very poor in others. It is quite poor in water, and, of course, water is absolutely basic to the growth process. Australia has abundant sunlight, solar energy, which is the basis of photosynthesis.
Prabhupāda: Vegetable.
Justin Murphy: And vegetable growth. But we lack water. And in Perth we are doing an excellent job at ruining our water. It's criminal in many respects, what is going on. And this is what we must do. So we are trying to strike a balance between science for and research for the benefit of people. But it must be also for the benefit of the environment, because...
Prabhupāda: You find out this verse. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Annād. A-n-n-a-d. Annād.
Paramahaṁsa: A-n-n-a-d. Hm.
Justin Murphy: Geographer.
Prabhupāda: Geographer. And another man is working in the factory or somewhere else. Everyone is working. So by working the aim should be how to perform yajña. That is... That should the... Suppose you are geographer, and I am a religious preacher, and he is a cultivator, he is a factory man, he is a motorcar driver. So that is all right. But if we sit down together and perform yajña simply by glorifying the Lord, where is the loss in your part or my part or his part? Where is the loss? Suppose as a geographer, you sit down; as a religious preacher, I sit down; as a motorcar driver, he sits down; as a factory worker, he sits down and perform yajña. Yajña means we chant the holy name of the Lord. Where is the difficulty?
Justin Murphy: I wish it were as simple as that for the majority of people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone. Even the child can take part. Even the child, woman, educated, noneducated, rich man, poor man, worker—everyone can sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So why don't you accept this formula?
Justin Murphy: How do you know that I haven't?
Prabhupāda: There is no check.
Prabhupāda: They are taking. Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja is there. He is a sannyāsī. That is all right. You don't change your mind. You are already trained up about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so you try to become an ideal householder in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we are not rejecting householder. We are accepting everyone. Gṛhe vā thāke hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke. Anyone, either he remains as a sannyāsī in the forest or he remains a gṛhastha at home, if he is cultivating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, then he is all right. That is the verdict. So now you are living as gṛhastha. Live as an ideal gṛhastha, don't change your mind. Be fixed up. They are all gṛhasthas, all these Pañca-tattva, you see? Advaita Prabhu was a gṛhastha. He did not take sannyāsa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also was married. Nityānanda Prabhu was gṛhastha. They were all gṛhasthas, but ideal gṛhastha. So you become an ideal gṛhastha. That also wanted.
Gṛhastha is also called āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama. As sannyāsa is called āśrama, similarly gṛhastha is called āśrama. Anywhere cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is going on, that is āśrama. Now it depends on my personal convenience either I remain as gṛhastha or I be a sannyāsī. But when you have accepted the gṛhastha life, so that's all right. Remain at least for fifty years. Then you can give up when your children are grown up. You just give them education, settle them, then you can leave home. That is gṛhastha-āśrama. So, we shall... That's all. (end)
Prabhupāda: You are thinking this is Oriental civilization, but that is not the fact. The fact is this is human civilization. There is no question of east and west. Every living being, not only human being, even other beings—there are 8,400,000's forms of life—and Kṛṣṇa claims that
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- haṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
So Kṛṣṇa is for the aquatics, the animals in the water. The vast sea, there are so many animals. Then, from the water, the trees are coming out. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In this way evolutionary process is going on. But all of them, living entities, and part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. So by the evolutionary process they come to the human form of life. Now there is developed consciousness. Now, the human being has to decide which way he has to go, again to the lower species of life or higher forms of life. The higher forms of life are there in the upper planetary system.
Their duration of life, material standard of living, very, very comfortable, thousand times better than here. So Kṛṣṇa says that if you like to go to the higher planetary system, you can go there. That it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If you cultivate yourself for going to the higher planetary system... But first of all we have to understand that we are eternal, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are simply changing body. This is material condition. Either lower grade of bodies or higher grade of bodies, but we have to change. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Just like we are changing our bodies from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, then old age, similarly, when this body will be finished, no more usable, then we'll have to accept another body. But we... The present civilization is so foolish they do not know—even big, big professor; I have talked—that there is life after death. They do not know, although it is very evident. That they have no such knowledge, even common sense.
Upendra: Translation: But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form—to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.
Purport: One who is unable to live for a moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot but think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all auspicious and full of spiritual potencies; indeed, they make the devotee perfect in self-realization. Then his only desire is to achieve the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called yoga. By the mercy of the Lord, such a devotee never comes back to this material condition of life. Kṣema refers to the merciful protection of the Lord. The Lord helps the devotee to achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness by yoga, and when he becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious the Lord protects him from falling down to a miserable conditioned life.
Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference.
Ghanaśyāma: We stayed there most of the time. And the first two weeks we stayed at Bury Place because there are about six schools that are in walking distance from the Bury Place temple.
Prabhupāda: So everything is going right?
Ghanaśyāma: Oh, yes, cultivating very nice. The president there, he is taking out the saṅkīrtana party himself, and the whole temple has become very enthused by this. Bury Place.
Prabhupāda: How many devotees are there?
Ghanaśyāma: Bury Place, there's about... There are three traveling saṅkīrtana parties. There are about maybe thirty devotees there.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. And Bhaktivedanta Manor?
Ghanaśyāma: I think about maybe thirty-five. Some of the boys go to Scotland frequently. So they sort of share the devotees with the three temples.
Prabhupāda: Edinburgh. So you have been in Edinburgh University?
Ghanaśyāma: No. I don't know. Prabhupāda, they have a program there with the Indians. The Indians are supporting the temple there now.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Ghanaśyāma: The Indians, they're paying for the devotees' prasādam and supporting the temple.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Anna-dāna.
Prabhupāda:
- oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
- jñānāñjana-śalākayā
- cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
- tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
(I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.)
Ladies and gentlemen, regarding Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... (about microphone:) It is working? We are talking about the spiritual existence of the living being. By evolutionary process we come to the human form of life, and here we have got developed consciousness. We can decide now which way to go forward. There are different planetary system. That we can experience. We can see innumerable planets, upwards and downwards. So the upper planetary system is called Svargaloka, or the heavenly planets, and the middle planetary system is called Martyaloka or Bhurloka, in which we are staying at the present moment, and the down planetary system is called Pātālaloka or downwards. Downwards means fall down, upwards means getting promotion, and middle means we remain where we are now. That is... Indication is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā: (BG 14.18) "Those who are cultivating the modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system." And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. "Those who are passionate or under the modes of passion, they remain in the middle planetary system." And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: "And those (whose) character is very abominable, they go down." And beyond this, there is another nature.
Brahmānanda:
- dharmasya hy āpavargyasya
- nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate
- nārthasya dharmaikāntasya
- kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ
- (SB 1.2.9)
"All occupational engagements are certainly meant for ultimate liberation. They should never be performed for material gain. Furthermore, one who is engaged in the ultimate occupational service should never use material gain to cultivate sense gratification." Prabhupāda: Purport. Brahmānanda: We have already discussed that pure devotional service to the Lord is automatically followed by perfect knowledge and detachment from material existence. But there are others who consider that all kinds of different occupational engagements, including those of religion, are meant for material gain. The general tendency of any ordinary man in any part of the world is to gain some material profit in exchange for religious or any other occupational service. Even in the Vedic literatures, for all sorts of religious performances an allurement of material gain is offered, and most people are attracted by such allurements or blessings of religiosity. Why are such so-called men of religion allured by material gain? Because material gain can enable one to fulfill desires, which in turn satisfy sense gratification. This cycle of occupational engagements includes so-called religiosity followed by material gain and material gain followed by fulfillment of desires. Sense gratification is the general way for all sorts of fully occupied men. But in the statement of Sūta Gosvāmī, as per the verdict of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this is nullified by the present śloka. One should not engage himself in any sort of occupational service for material gain only. Nor should material gain be utilized for sense gratification. How material gain should be utilized is described as follows. Prabhupāda: People are after material gain. They have no spiritual information even, what is spirit, what is the need of spiritual realization, they do not know. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhas: fools and rascals. Those who are after material way of... Prof. Hopkins: Do you... Do you think then that that, that message is the most important message that you have to convey? Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it seems that the cells are not independent. They are somehow controlled by the jīvātmā or the... Of course, Paramātmā is controlling everything. But I know sometimes the cells that compose the body of a living body, it seems that they are not independent; they are dependent.
Prabhupāda: That may be. But what about your cultivating living entities from the cells?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that can be done. That they have already done.
Prabhupāda: "That can be done," you say everything. But you never done.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: They call it... You know that? They call it cloning?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cloning is a different process, though. Cloning is just they take the life from the genes from different species and put this together and form a new species called hybrids of some living entity.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: The scientists say that the cells reproduce not by mating but by splitting in half...
Prabhupāda: That is possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But once Śrīla Prabhupāda told us, though, that I am in the heart and...
Prabhupāda: I am an individual.
Rāmeśvara: In Japan, it is very popular.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: They have farms, they call them sea farms and they specially grow the seaweed for cultivation.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is very kind. If you want this kind of food, he'll give you facility.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the Vedic culture, I don't think they like this. They'll prefer this... Do you think Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Vedic culture means Kṛṣṇa prasāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Kṛṣṇa, you cannot offer this to Kṛṣṇa, can you?
Prabhupāda: No. (break)
Devotee (1): ...seaweed they eat. It grows out further. This isn't edible, they say.
Prabhupāda: Everything is edible but meant for different living entities. Stool is also edible, meant for the hogs. In the last war, stool was also eaten by human beings, you know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the Germans.
Prabhupāda: "Cheerful attitude." If cows know. They have got intelligence that "We will be killed." Therefore they are not supplying sufficient milk. They cannot, just like if your mind is full of anxiety, you cannot work fully. So because they are denied this cheerfulness, you are getting less milk. If you keep them cheerful, they will give more milk. This is nature's economic development. Artificially you cannot increase the production of milk. But according to the instruction of scripture, if you keep them cheerful without any fear, they will deliver double milk. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that cows should be protected in the human society. If you want to eat meat, you can kill insignificant, small animal, but don't kill cows. There are other animals-hogs, pigs, goats, lambs or birds, so many, fish—if you are at all interested in meat-eating; but don't kill cow. Find out this verse from Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Those who are vaiśyas... Economic development... Vaiśya means economic development. They should produce ample food grains and give protection to the cows. Just like our Kṛṣṇa's life, His foster father was a vaiśya. So he is keeping so many hundred thousands of cows, and Kṛṣṇa was entrusted to take charge of the calves, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So although They were very rich father's son, still They were taking the calves in the forest for tending in childhood. Still... You have seen in Māyāpur? The small children, they are taking care very nicely of the cows. After all, it is animal. The small child has got a stick, and he has been trained up how to allow them to graze. They have done. So according to Bhagavad-gītā... But that is very nice, that economic development means you produce more food grains and more milk. Then it will solve all posit... There will be no scarcity of food or happiness. Our, these Kṛṣṇa society young boys and girls, they have prepared so many nice things from milk. It is nutritious, very palatable, every..., everything. And we take food grains, fruits, milk preparation, that's all. That is very easily available. You can get enough fruits if you cultivate trees and plants. That is recommended in Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Let people be engaged. Machine means one man or two man working... That will mean unemployment. Machine means unemployment. The principle should be that everyone is employed. Either brāhmaṇa, either kṣatriya, either vaiśya or śūdra. Nobody should become idle and gossiping, and sleeping, then utilize... This should be principle. Everyone should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then life is successful. And self-sufficient. If we have got spoiling living program, these are necessities. Growing, cultivating, producing, there will be not possibility of, and we don't want more than the necessity. If by God's grace we get more then you can make sale, we are not going to work for selling purpose. Then money will be there. How to get money, how to get money? And as soon as you get money, more than necessity, then sense gratification, then this, that, this, that, then you become implicated. Ato gṛha kṣetra sutāpta... ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). As soon as you become implicated with material want, gṛha, kṣetra, vittair, ato gṛha kṣetra sutāpta, children, wife, friendship, then the false ego, "I am this body and this is my property," will increase. For that is material world. People do not know the end of life, or the aim of life. They are misguided, hence the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to give them an ideal way of life. So this is very nice place. We have got small lakes also. Natural we have?
Nityānanda: No, you can make them.
Nityānanda: The householders on our farm, they should cooperate and produce the food centrally or every householder should produce his own food independently?
Prabhupāda: No. Why they are living in a community centrally? Community means work everything for the community.
Devotee (1): Some men can cultivate the fields, some men can take care of the cows, some men... They can (indistinct) responsible.
Prabhupāda: No, it is service (?).
Upendra: One question I have, Prabhupāda... When I heard about New Vrindaban... I've not been there myself, so I cannot say firsthand, but I've talked with devotees have been there.
Prabhupāda: Near.
Upendra: One would think because there's land and room for vegetables and there are so many cows that there would be a plentiful supply of milk, but I understand that they use powdered milk. The devotees use powdered milk there.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Upendra: Because they make all the milk into ghee and distribute it. And vegetables... I heard that at the temple that they use powdered milk. In Philadelphia I questioned the... That carpenter who made your table? He (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Why powdered milk if there is sufficient milk?
Brahmānanda: So this is the varṇāśrama system that you are...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: This varṇāśrama college...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Varnāśrama means everyone should be engaged. There will be no, I mean to say, (indistinct).
Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what exactly do the... Do the vaiśyas cultivate the fields or the śūdras cultivate the fields?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jagadīśa: Is it the duty of the vaiśyas to cultivate the fields or...?
Prabhupāda: Actually it is the duty of the vaiśyas, but the śūdras can help everyone, the helpers. The śūdras will help the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, as well as the vaiśyas. Those who have no brain—simply they can carry out order—they are śūdras. And those who have got brain, they can act as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya. They have got brain to take the initiative. First-class brain, they should be engaged in studying śāstras, writing books and in the worship of the Deity, lecturing enlightened people. This is brāhmaṇa. They haven't got to work as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. They are simply intellectuals. This is brāhmaṇa, with good character.
Prabhupāda: V.I.P. room, our?
Bhāgavata: Yes. Our V.I.P. room.
Brahmānanda: What is the charges for the V.I.P. room?
Dhanañjaya: Twenty rupees. All this land between Chattikara Road and Pagala Baba's āśrama, mandir, is very good for cultivation.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Who does it belong to? Different farms?
Dhanañjaya: Yes. And government.
Prabhupāda: Which way we shall go?
Gurṇārṇava: Where shall we go?
Prabhupāda: This way or that? Which way? Nobody can say?
Dhanañjaya: This is the parikrama. This path is here, better.
Prabhupāda: Let us go this way. (break) ...Bon Mahārāja's land? No.
Dhanañjaya: Not all. This fence...
Brahmānanda: That's his building there?
Dhanañjaya: Yes. He has 28 acres of land.
Prabhupāda: Where? He has altogether 83 acres, so far I know. What is this? (break) ...this way, this way, from back side.
Prabhupāda: Not to the fools and rascals. So first of all, to give them chance, let them come to the temple, take prasādam, hear saṅkīrtana, offer obeisances by imitating others. In this way, when they become little devotee, then instruct. Otherwise it will be useless. You'll waste your time by arguing.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You have given the example that the field has to be plowed before the seed is sown, cultivated.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Cyavana: The mind has to want that higher taste.
Prabhupāda: Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). So this process... Bring the... Invite them. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, give them prasādam. Everyone will take part in this way, not immediately instructing that "You are not this body; you are soul." He will not be able to.
Cyavana: It's too difficult.
Prabhupāda: Therefore this process is recommended. Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with ordinary public. Ordinary public—"Go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and dancing." Never argued, neither He discussed Bhāgavatam. For ordinary public-four hours' kīrtana, chanting and dancing, bas. And then give them sufficient prasādam: "Take prasāda." This process... Because unless he has got little śraddhā, he will simply put some false argument and waste your time. Not in the beginning. Mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. First of all create him a devotee a little. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21)—only. Because this is Kali-yuga, people are so fallen, so downtrodden, so rascal, cats and dogs. It is very difficult. But this process—chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, giving them chance to hear it and take prasādam—that will cure. And that is easily accepted by anyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Anyone will accept. To chant and dance and take prasādam—no one will disagree. So this is the process. When they come to the temple... Just like these boys. You are offering obeisances; they are also offering. But that will go to their credit, to become bhakta. This process should be adopted. Not in the beginning, but in the beginning give them prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And try to sell some book. You pay something. That means he is giving some service, the hard-earned money. That will also go to his credit. And then, when he'll concerned that "I have paid for it. Let me see what this nonsense has written. All right. Read." And that will also convince him. This is the way. He'll keep this body, book, and show some friend, so the infection will go on.
Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows. Keep cows, as many cows as possible, and produce, till the ground, field, and make water supply arrangement. If the investment is required, we shall do that. You have no worry about investment. We shall bring money from anywhere. But the work must be done very nicely. There must be good arrangement for water supply and for plowing and keeping the cows in order. Then you get sufficient milk, sufficient food grains and produce your own cloth. The girls and ladies, they can spine (spin) thread, and from the thread you make cloth, handlooms. So your first necessities of life, eating, and make little cottage, sleeping... And if you want sex, get yourself married, live peacefully. And when you are there you can defend yourself. So the first necessity is how to eat and how to cover. That you have to provide. That is not difficult. You can do it. And then you become peaceful, no anxiety for your maintenance. And then cultivate this spiritual knowledge the same way. Have a temple there. Have... Go on chanting, offering prasādam. You have got your food grains. Don't be dependent on anyone else. Become self-independent. And don't be after money. Simply produce your bare necessities of life. Keep yourself fit, strong. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, read book. Then you'll grow strong. Is there any difficulty?
Faill: If you've been bad enough, you might finish...
Prabhupāda: No, that... This I have already told you. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life. So you can enter any one of them according to your mental condition. We are under the control of the material nature. The material nature is being conducted in three modes: goodness, passion and ignorance. So just like three colors: yellow, red, and blue. Now you mix-three into three equal to nine, nine into nine equal to eighty-one. So these modes of material nature is being mixed up. Therefore there are so many varieties of life. So if we transcend this coloring platform of material nature, we come to the pure consciousness. Then we stop this repetition of birth and death in different forms of life. And if we do not that, then there is chance of going down or going up. There are different planets. If you cultivate the modes of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system, higher standard of life. And if you don't improve or don't go down, then you may remain in the present stage. But out of ignorance, if you still degrade, commit sinful activities, violate the laws of nature, then we go down again—the animal life, the plants' life, like that. But again we have to evolve, evolutionary process, by nature's... So it may take many millions of years. So therefore a human being must be responsible that "I have got this opportunity to get out of this cycle of birth and death and different forms of life, and let me properly understand God and what is my relationship with God and act accordingly so that if we understand what is God, then we go back to home, back to Godhead."
Prabhupāda: Transcendental platform. And from transcendental platform, we come to the spiritual platform. These are the stages. So in this age, because people are so fallen and in the śāstra a special recommendation that give the people directly spiritual platform... That direct spiritual platform is chanting of this holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. So if we cultivate this practice on the spiritual platform, then immediately we realize our spiritual identity, and God, and it becomes very quickly successful.
Faill: So in a sense, what a lot of people are saying today is that we must look inwards rather than outwards into the world of the senses.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Inward means that you are spirit soul; you are not this body. But if you keep your bodily concept of life, then where is inward? It is outward only.
Faill: It's just another way of looking out.
Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the villages?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, śūdras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India's civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages. In the evening there would be bhagavata-kathā. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing—what we are just introducing—Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Purāṇas, and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause) So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.
Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress. There is enough land. They can produce enough food and live peacefully. They are talking of peace, but they do not know how peace can be achieved. They are hankering after peace, but they do not know how to achieve peace. And that formula is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: Accept God as the proprietor; then there will be peace. Something stolen from the proprietor by some thieves, and when they sit down to take their shares, there will be fight. The property is stolen, and they are sharing. Now, one will say, "Oh, I have worked so hard. You are giving me so little share?" And others will say, "No, no, we have worked equally." Somebody, "No..." In this way there will be fight.
Prabhupāda: Śucinām śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). What is that?
Indian woman: So you come in my life. Before that time I was only forty-eight years.
Prabhupāda: So now the older section of the Indians, they should give up their family life and live in this temple, cultivate this spiritual life and preach. You see. There will be very nice relationship.
Indian woman: Everyone, every state, this is true. Sometimes I go to preaching. I not looking "Asian," or such and such. Anyone I go to preach.
Prabhupāda: We are all part and parcel of God. The outward dress only makes difference that "I am African," "I am Indian," "I am this." Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Therefore one who is learned, he does not make that difference. That is accidental, that by... You can say acci... That is also not accidental, but some way or other, it has become so. The dress is different. But our movement is not with the dress but with the living being who has the dress. This is movement. Our, this is completely spiritual movement.
Dr. Patel: As you have come to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is there, if He sees somebody is actually serious to understand Him—just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, did not..., he did not make any guru, but with fervent desire he went, "Yes, I shall find out Kṛṣṇa." Mother said "Kṛṣṇa can be found in the forest," so he went to the forest, and he began according to his own way. Then Kṛṣṇa sent Nārada Muni, that "This boy is very serious. Go and give him real mantra." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Two things required: guru and Kṛṣṇa. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. Mālī hañā kare sei bīja koro āropana. "I have got some seed of bhakti, and I keep it in the iron chest." No. You must make cultivation of bhakti-bīja: mali hañā sei bia koro āropana. And how to nourish the bīja? Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye śecana: (CC Madhya 19.152) by śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Water is this. Then bhakti-latā will come out a tree, and you will get the fruits and enjoy.
Dr. Patel: Smaraṇam kīrtanam.... pada pūjānam. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtanam, arcanam, vandanam, dāsyam...
Dr. Patel: Kīrtanam, vandanam, dāsyam.... ātmā-nivedanam. (kīrtana as Prabhupāda approaches temple) (end)
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Automatically. (sic:) Parāsya bhaktir vividhaiva śruyate svabhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Svabhāva..., you can.... Just like if you ask me how to do something, if I say, "Yes, you do like this," svabhāvikī. I have got by nature knowledge how to do it perfectly. That is going on. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Kṛṣṇa is dictating that "You do like this." So, you see, everything is coming perfect. From the nim seed a nim tree will come. It is so nicely made by Kṛṣṇa-bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10)—that it will come nim tree, not mango tree. The chemicals are so combined. You do not know what is there, a small seed, baṭa vṛkṣa. And a huge banyan tree will come out, not other tree. That is knowledge. He has given the whole, I mean to say, operation in a small seed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. There is no mistake. You simply take it and cultivate. You'll get the result.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which way, Jayapatāka?
Prabhupāda: So?
Jayapatāka: They wanted to show their land.
Prabhupāda: Where it is? So? What that land will be utilized for?
Jayapatāka: That's only good for cultivation.
Prabhupāda: You have got sufficient arrangement for cultivation?
Jayapatāka: We need... We don't have enough cultivation land for the amount of devotees we have.
Prabhupāda: So how many bīghās (5/8 of one acre) there are?
Jayapatāka: But that land...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is it?
Jayapatāka: Even from here you can just see without going all that way there. The thing... This is the lake.
Prabhupāda: Lake?
Jayapatāka: This is a lake. This, in the rainy season it becomes submerged. That's what I was saying last night. He said that if you dig a lake in the middle, then you can make it high.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Useless land.
Prabhupāda: That is not good.
Prabhupāda: But who is working as farmer? Who is working as farmer? The government is eager to give them land, but who is working? Nobody is working. They are going to the factory. Even whatever land is still available, they are not being worked out.
Indian man: Well, in the villages there are many poor peoples who are landless, so they are cultivating the land.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Some of them are cultivating. Others are going to the city to be...
Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their land they have to go. They will say, "How we can live with the small land," so they will move.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating-useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore kṣatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join."
Prabhupāda: Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This is not civilization. This is civilization, tapasya: no meat-eating, no this, no this, that, and become perfect, ideal brāhmaṇa life, satya śama dama śuci jñāna vijñāna. This is civilization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unless you become civilized like this, there is no opportunity of brahma-jijñāsā. And so long you do not inquire about Brahman, that you remain, that pigs and hogs and asses. If human civilization is wasted to cultivate the pig civilization, naturally, "All right, you come here. Become a pig now. Take this body." Kṛṣṇa will say, "Nature, prakṛti, he got this chance to become human being, but has misused. Kindly give him a body of pig."
- īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
- bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni
- yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
- (BG 18.61)
Then you get this yantra, how you can become perfect pig, whole day and night eat stool, and as soon as you get another opposite party, have sex. Doesn't matter whether it is daughter or mother or sister. That's all. Take Freud's philosophy and become highly advanced in civilization. Now the Freud's philosophy is being translated in Hindi and so many other languages. We are advancing in civilization, Indians. They are translating this Freud's philosophy, pig civilization. People therefore do not come to us. (chuckles) They avoid us because "They are not pigs."
Harikeśa: Therefore it is still. It's not rubbing against everything because everything is moving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this earth also. According to them it is going around the sun. But we don't feel anything. According to them. And according to..., it is running at the rate of twenty-five thousand miles, and if you, in airplane, it is going six hundred miles per hour, and still there is so many jerking. That is your creation, tiny machine. And God's creation, it is moving. Even it is moving, you cannot understand. That is perfect creation. Pūrṇam. The word is pūrṇam idam, everything perfect. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Iso Invocation). Because God is all-perfect, whatever He has created, they are all-perfect, relatively, all perfect. Just like this earth. It is all-perfect. Whatever you want, you inhabitants of this earth, they are all there. You want air, water, light? Everything is there. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya. So you are using so much water, so much light; still, it is perfect. Just like the cultivation. Every year you are taking so much production. Still, again you can take. This is pūrṇam idam, perfectly done. That is God's creation. This is body, you see. You have to capture something. You require some solid thing here. It is there. If it is..., it was soft, only skin, then you could not catch this. How perfectly it is done. It is required here, not the whole finger. This is called perfect creation. The sensation of sex is in a particular position, not everywhere, because if that sensation were not there, then nobody would feel sex, and there would be no creation. This is called perfect creation. The same sensation could have been here, there. No. That particular sensation is there to induce him. Similarly, everything is going on. How to fix it? Every body is made... Every body is made according to the work it has to do. You see? The pig, it has to eat stool. His mouth is made in a different way. The tiger has to eat meat; his mouth is made differently. This is called perfect creation.
Mahāṁsa: It grows wild there. And out of the 600 acres, there's about 200 acres which is very fertile, and the other area is kind of dry. So it is fertile. So we would invest lot of money on cultivating all year round. So if we get 250 acres, then we'll get the good area.
Yadubara: We can choose our own land?
Madhudviṣa: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: So that...
Rādhāvallabha: There will be a second rail on this other side, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We will put that up today.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...now the visitors?
Rādhāvallabha: Just a few. Their sign just got up last night, so no one has seen the sign yet. Mostly devotees are coming to see it so far.
Madhudviṣa: (break) That's the library party.
Rādhāvallabha: In this place we're going to put a large board and put all your books on the board.
Rāmeśvara: (break) "...a standing order to begin with volume one of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, then please enter standing order to begin with volume one for Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." This is their standing order, the order they send us in the mail.
Prabhupāda: What is the...? (reading) "No work in all Indian literature is more quoted. Because none is better loved in the West than the Bhagavad-gītā. Translation of such work demands not only knowledge of Sanskrit but an inward sympathy with the theme and a verbal..." What is called?
Devotees: Artistry.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So he has offered seat.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? In the Bhāgavatam it says that although Lord Viṣṇu is the controller of everything, He is particularly in charge with the mode of goodness, and He is associated with maintenance. So is it that in order to maintain something in this material world also, there has to be the touch of the mode of goodness?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
- tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
- kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
- ceta etair anāviddhaṁ
- sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati
- (SB 1.2.19)
When the heart is cleansed of the dirty things, rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ, the modes of rajaḥ and tamaḥ, ignorance and passion, then he is situated in the sattva-guṇa. There are three guṇas. If you become released from the tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, naturally you are situated in the sattva-guṇa. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham. When the heart is not attacked by this rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, then it remains fixed up in sattva-guṇa. Then...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Evaṁ prasanna-manaso?
Prabhupāda: Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ (SB 1.2.20). Then he becomes prasanna-manasaḥ, happy mood. Then he can cultivate devotional service. Otherwise not possible. Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Unless one is situated in sattva-guṇa, there is no possibility of peacefulness. (Hindi) (end)
Prabhupāda: This is direction?
Jayadvaita: Yes.
Passer-by: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya, jaya. This is the difference: he is living here nine years, he does not. And here, cultivator, he knows how to offer obeisances. Where he is living?
Jayadvaita: I'm not sure exactly. I met him on Gopīnath Bazaar. He's living with some gentleman. He said that he came to Vṛndāvana nine years ago and he met this gentleman and took up studying with him. And he's reading all Vedic books, Atharva Veda, Yajur Veda, like that, but he doesn't know...
Prabhupāda: What is God.
Madhudviṣa: Has he seen our books?
Prabhupāda: How he is wasting his time.
Jayadvaita: Yes.
Lokanātha: Vedeṣu durlābhaṁ.
Prabhupāda: Adurlabham ātma-bhaktau. If he would have approached a devotee, he'd have known this long ago. That man must be Māyāvādī, with whom he is associating.
Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization.
Mike Barron: Where do you.... You might think this unusual. Where does it come from, though?
Prabhupāda: The Vedas, Vedic literature.
Mike Barron: What goes into this?
Prabhupāda: Vedas. Vedic literature, Sāma, Yajur, Ṛk, Atharva, Upaniṣad, then Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā, so many. There is no cultivation of this knowledge.
Devotee (3): If we could.... If we put the stool up here, and then you can sit on facing that way, Mike?
Mike Barron: Hmm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I'll do it.
Prabhupāda: How people are advanced? They should take very seriously.
Devotee (3): So he can sit and face that way.
Guru-kṛpā: Maybe you can take one picture of our books when you go.
Mike Barron: Yes, well, due to problems that do occur from time to time, we.... You know, what people consider to be the false guru, is that all right with you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, any.... Guru means the teacher. So if the teacher does not give you real knowledge, then he is not teacher. He is cheater.
Rāmeśvara: "The white man's burden," they called it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (pause) Prabhupāda, wherever you walk, the water turns off.
Candanācārya: The entire Golden Gate park was cultivated by men.
Rādhāvallabha: Instead of planting grass by the roads, they are now putting green rocks. They figure it looks the same, and it saves money.
Kīrtirāja: They are also planting plastic grass in the middle of the road.
Hṛdayānanda: No opulence.
Rādhāvallabha: In Russia now they have declared one..., that it is a big crisis. Because their grains did not grow properly, they are not able to produce as much meat, so now one day a week everyone is forced to eat fish. So they are lamenting. They were describing how..., about the good old days were when you could go and buy an entire carcass.
Candanācārya: (break) ...country, build cities and then spend billions of dollars to make the city look like the country.
Prabhupāda: Carvita-carvaṇānām. Chewing the chewed, again and again. This is their position.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: "We see materialistic persons busily engaged in economic development all day and all night, trying to increase their material opulence, but even if we suppose that they get some benefit from such endeavors, that does not solve the real problem of their lives. Nor do they know what the real problem of life is. This is due to a lack of spiritual education. Especially in the present age, every man is in darkness, in the bodily conception of life, not knowing anything of the spirit soul and its needs. Misguided by the blind leaders of society, people consider the body to be everything, and they are engaged in trying to keep the body materially comfortable. Such a civilization is condemned because it does not lead humanity toward knowing the real goal of life. People are simply wasting time and the valuable gift of the human form, because a human being who does not cultivate spiritual life but dies like the cats and dogs is degraded in his next life. From human life, such a person is put into the cycle of continuous birth and death. Thus one loses the true benefit of human life, which is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and solve life's problems."
Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point amongst yourselves whether it is rightly said or wrong. If anyone has any objection. Yes?
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I remember in Atlanta last year when an Indian Ph.D. came to see you and was sitting at your lotus feet, and he spoke about the problems in India, overpopulation and hunger, and then he said to you, "Swamiji, you must always realize the realities." And you said to him, "You don't know the reality." And he did not answer one word. He is now always coming to the temple, although he is working with the monkeys on behavior study. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So anyone has any objection to this statement?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was thinking that Kṛṣṇa also says that aghāyur indriyārāmo moghaṁ pārtha sa jīvati. This is useless, spending your time in sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, aghāyur indriyārāmo.
Jayādvaita: We got a phone call today from someone in Kalamazoo-it's many hours away. And he met some devotee in a store who was there for purchasing something, and just by talking for a few minutes he decided that he wanted to come here and see you in Detroit. So he was calling on the phone, when would you be here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If we get this land we can cultivate some grains, foodstuff. On account of this water facility you can grow so many things, vegetables, fruits, foodgrains, very nice. Keep cows. (break) Industrial civilization will fail. They are manufacturing simply cars. The time is approaching very swiftly when there will be no more demand for cars.
Mādhavānanda: Already it's failing. They are making so many cars now, and people aren't purchasing. In the newspaper, you see big pictures of huge miles of lots of unsold cars. The whole motorcar business, industry, is going down.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have another trick. Now they make them very cheap so the cars will break down every year.
Prabhupāda: But if I don't want it, either cheap or dear, who cares for it? If I don't want that. There was a statement by some Pope that "If the crown of England is offered to me at very cheap price, so why shall I accept it? What shall I do with it?" That is the..., that if I don't want a car.... Suppose if we advance our farming program, who will want the car? Theoretically, accept it, that we shall remain in the farm. Then where is the necessity of car?
Mādhavānanda: Therefore the government will not like.
Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ yat taj jñānaṁ mataṁ mama. English?
Hari-śauri: "O scion of Bharata, you should understand that I am also the knower in all bodies, and to understand this body and its owner is called knowledge. That is My opinion."
Prabhupāda: First of all knowledge means kṣetra-kṣetrajña. The body is the field of activity. You are acting, I am also acting, everyone is acting—according to the body. But the actor is called kṣetrajña. Just like a cultivator is tilling the land, his own, and the tiller is cultivator. Similarly, this body is an analogy of this field, and we are tilling. So Kṛṣṇa says that "I am also one of the tillers." Just like the tenant and the landlord. In an apartment house, the tenant is occupier of a certain house, certain apartment, but the landlord is the owner of the whole house. So God says "I am also kṣetrajña—but for all the buildings." Everything that is there, all planets, all, everywhere. That is His all-pervasiveness. I am the proprietor of this body, owner of this body, but God is proprietor of all the bodies. In this way that is explained.
Prabhupāda: Quarter for the proprietor?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. There are many people that have a lot of land, and they don't want to do it themselves. But the hay has to be cut every year, otherwise the trees come, and then the land degenerates. So they like to have it cut. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...land can be cultivated also?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, it could be. It would be very good land. (break) ...our own lumber now also. Cutting our own trees.
Prabhupāda: That is the nature's way. You cut the lumber and make cottage, and the land is clear, then cultivate, get you food, and cows, give them grass.
Kīrtanānanda: (break) ...woods around here.
Prabhupāda: Why it is there is no fog here? Due to the trees? It is clear.
Kīrtanānanda: There's a river up that way, and I think there's more fog up that—it's always like that, I don't know exactly why. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...in the jungle?
Kīrtanānanda: Deer.
Prabhupāda: Deer only.
Prabhupāda: But that is good for you, because you are harassed by overpopulation. You cannot feed them even. Why you object? Let them go and live somewhere else peacefully. Just like the Europeans came here. Originally, in America, Europeans came. Because it was overcongested and they got..., Columbus found this land, enough, and they migrated. So still there is so much land. The Indians are hard workers, they will develop very nicely. Just like this quarter; if Indians would be allowed, they'll come and make it very nice. In South America, they have done. Many Indian cultivators, they have come in remote villages. This cooperation should be. Everything belongs to God. Why a class or community should be congested? Just like China, Japan, India, so much congested. What is this nonsense United Nations doing? What they have done for the last thirty years? No liberal-minded. Let them propose that wherever there is enough land and wherever there is overpopulation, let them go and the government give them simply land and let them work and be happy. Why not arrange, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, arrange between these two, United Nations. Why a section of people is rotting in a place and devising some means how to fight with the others and get land? Why? There is no meaning. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). This is our philosophy, everything belongs to God, and everyone is a son of God; therefore the son of God has the right. Why they should be thrown together and live compulsorily in that rotten place, that in China they are living on the sea? You know that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Taiwan.
Visakha: Buttermilk.
Prabhupāda: Buttermilk, yes, and in this way after drinking and eating so many things, whatever balance is there, churn it and they get ghee, and that ghee is kept in stock. On the market day, they go to the city and sell it. You'll find in Vṛndāvana, so many cultivators, they have brought ghee. So the inhabitants of the city, town, they require ghee, they purchase, and with that money they get some necessities, just like some oil or some spices, salt, like this, which is not available. In this way...
Hari-śauri: How is it they are so keen on buffalo milk in India?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Hari-śauri: The Indians, they seem to prefer buffalo milk to cow milk.
Prabhupāda: No, cow milk is not available, therefore buffalo milk contains more fat. But milk means cow's milk. What is the daily milk?
Kīrtanānanda: About a thousand pounds.
Prabhupāda: Those who are meat-eaters, why don't you inform them, when a cow dies, that "You can take it."
Kīrtanānanda: That would be illegal.
Prabhupāda: Why? Legal, illegal, that is their whim.
Prabhupāda: Where is that boy? You are hearing?
Devotee (2): Yes, Prabhupāda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Knowledge of the transcendental science of the Upaniṣads can free one from the entanglement of existence in the material world, and when thus liberated, one can be elevated to the spiritual kingdom of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by advancement in spiritual life. The beginning of spiritual enlightenment is realization of impersonal Brahman. Such realization is effected by gradual negation of material variegatedness. Impersonal Brahman realization is the partial, distant experience of the Absolute Truth that one achieves through the rational approach. It is compared to one's seeing a hill from a distance and taking it to be a smoky cloud. A hill is not a smoky cloud, but it appears to be one from a distance because of our imperfect vision. In imperfect or smoky realization of the Absolute Truth, spiritual variegatedness is conspicuous by its absence. This experience is therefore called advaita-vāda, or realization of the oneness of the Absolute. The impersonal glowing effulgence of Brahman consists only of the personal bodily rays of the Supreme Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Since Śrī Gaurasundara, or Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is identical with Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself, the Brahman effulgence consists of the rays of His transcendental body. Similarly, the Supersoul, which is called the Paramātmā, is a plenary representation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The antaryāmi, the Supersoul in everyone's heart, is the controller of all living entities. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā, wherein Lord Kṛṣṇa says sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am situated in everyone's heart." (BG 15.15) Bhagavad-gītā also states; bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), indicating that the Supreme Lord, acting in His expansion as the Supersoul, is the proprietor of everything. Similarly, the Brahma-saṁhitā states, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham: (Bs. 5.35) the Lord is present everywhere within the heart of every living entity and within each and every atom as well. Thus by this Supersoul feature the Lord is all-pervading. Furthermore, Lord Caitanya is also the master of all wealth, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation because He is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself. He is described as pūrṇa, or complete. In the feature of Lord Caitanya, the Lord is an ideal renouncer, just as Śrī Rāma was an ideal king. He accepted the order of sannyāsa and exemplified exceedingly wonderful principles in His own life. No one can compare to Him in the order of sannyāsa. Although in Kali-yuga acceptance of the sannyāsa order is generally forbidden, Lord Caitanya accepted it because He is complete in renunciation. Others cannot imitate Him but can only follow in His footsteps as far as possible. Those who are unfit for this order of life are strictly forbidden by the injunctions of the śāstras to accept it. Lord Caitanya, however, is complete in renunciation as well as all other opulences. He is therefore the highest principle of the Absolute Truth. By an analytical study of the truth of Lord Caitanya, one will find that He is not different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa; no one is greater than or even equal to Him. In Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) 'O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no truth superior to Me.' Thus it is here confirmed that there is no truth higher than Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. The impersonal Brahman is the goal of those who cultivate the study of books of transcendental knowledge, and the Supersoul is the goal of those who perform the yoga practices. One who knows the Supreme Personality of Godhead surpasses realization of both Brahman and Paramātmā, because Bhagavān is the ultimate platform of absolute knowledge. The Personality of Godhead is the complete form of sac-cidananda (full life, knowledge and bliss). By realization of the sat portion of the Complete Whole (unlimited existence), one realizes the impersonal Brahman of the Lord. By realization of the cit portion of the Complete Whole (unlimited knowledge) one can realize the localized aspect of the Lord, Paramātmā. But neither of these partial realizations of the Complete Whole can help one realize ānanda, or complete bliss. Without such realization of ānanda, knowledge of the Absolute Truth is incomplete. This verse of Caitanya-caritāmṛta by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī is confirmed by a parallel statement in the Tattva-sandarbha by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. In the Eighth Part of Tattva-sandarbha it is said that the Absolute Truth is sometimes approached as impersonal Brahman, which, although spiritual, is only a partial representation of the Absolute Truth. Nārāyaṇa, the predominating Deity in Vaikuṇṭha, is to be known as an expansion of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, but Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Absolute Truth, the object of the transcendental love of all living entities."
Prabhupāda: So is it clear? (laughs) It is not so easy. Therefore it is postgraduate.
Prabhupāda: Muci, yes. Their business is shoe maker. So when the cow is dead, they take it, they eat the meat and take the skin and the hoof. They make business without any, what is called, investment. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). That is economic. He gets the skin without any price, and he makes shoes and gets full profit. But that is for a class of men, not for all. Economic gain for a cobbler is not the economic gain for a brāhmaṇa. "One man's food another man's poison."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is considered, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that when a brāhmaṇa is engaged in the activities of plowing and cultivating, that he has become a vaiśya?
Prabhupāda: No. If there is nobody to help, he can do.
Hari-śauri: As long as he keeps up his brahminical standards.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. This is our car?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "To live with devotees or to live in a temple means to associate with the śravaṇa-kīrtana process. Sometimes neophyte devotees think that they can continue the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity, but the execution of śravaṇa-kīrtana is meant for highly developed devotees like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who engaged in the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity. However, one should not falsely imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura and abandon Deity worship just to try to engage in śravaṇa-kīrtana. This is not possible for neophyte devotees. The word guru-prasāda indicates that the spiritual master is very merciful in bestowing the boon of devotional service upon the disciple. That is the best possible gift the spiritual master has to offer. Those with a background of pious life are eligible to receive life's supreme benefit, and to bestow this benefit, the Supreme Personality of Godhead sends His representative to impart His mercy. Endowed with the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master distributes the mercy to those who are elevated and pious. Thus the spiritual master trains his disciples to render devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called guru-kṛpā. It is kṛṣṇa-prasāda, Kṛṣṇa's mercy, that He sends a bona fide spiritual master to the deserving disciple. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one meets the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of the spiritual master, the disciple is fully trained in the devotional service of the Lord. Bhakti-latā-bīja means 'the seed of devotional service.' Everything has an original cause, or seed. For any idea, program, plan or device, there is first of all the contemplation of the plan, and that is called bīja, or the seed. The methods, rules and regulations by which one is perfectly trained in devotional service constitute the bhakti-latā-bīja, or seed of devotional service. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received from the spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Other seeds are called anyabhilāṣa-bīja, karma-bīja and jñāna-bīja. If one is not fortunate enough to receive the bhakti-latā-bīja from the spiritual master, he instead cultivates the seeds of karma-bīja, jñāna-bīja, or political and social or philanthropic bīja. However, bhakti-latā-bīja is different from these other bījas. Bhakti-latā-bīja can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get bhakti-latā-bīja, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Bhakti-latā-bīja is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bīja, or root cause, of karma, jñāna and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. However, one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-latā-bīja. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called śravaṇa-kīrtana-hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting, kīrtana. This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā: vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana (BG 2.41). One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-latā-bīja after receiving instructions from the spiritual master." Mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana (CC Madhya 19.152).
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Hari-śauri: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: There were a funny man. They are called Gopal Bhan. So formerly kings, they used to keep some funny men because they are always full of anxiety, and one funny man would give them joke.
Prabhupāda: And those who know (indistinct), he is not hankering after how to get out of the (indistinct). They do not care for (indistinct).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Isn't it in the sense the material concept?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Devotee (2): ...have to cultivate this tolerance, not only a physical pain, but sometimes other pains.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) tṛṇād api sunīcena. Tolerance when they (indistinct), everyone is (indistinct), he doesn't (indistinct). Taror api sahiṣṇunā. You have to learn these things.
Rūpānuga: Lord Caitanya says if we are tolerant then we can chant the holy name of the Lord purely.
Devotee: But the scientists, they'll laugh at us, and they'll say, "we are helping to..."
Prabhupāda: And we laugh at us, so what is the wrong? We laugh at them. We tell them. So that struggle will go on.
Rūpānuga: But we will laugh last.
Devotee (1): No, they'll say, "You're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but I can give you this pill and I'll take away your pain," or, "I can give you this medicine and correct your disease. You're chanting, but I am not seeing a practical result."
Prabhupāda: No, I will say, "because I'm chanting you, you are my servant, you have brought the pill. (laughter) Because I am chanting, therefore Kṛṣṇa has sent the pill through you."
Hari-śauri: Not so much tractors and things though. They've been trying to concentrate with just oxen and things like that, so it's taken a while to develop the whole concept, whereas in Pennsylvania they're using so many machines.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not producing various things(?).
Jayatīrtha: In our Vancouver farm, because we had machinery, we were able to put more land under cultivation in the first year than they had in New Vrindaban after so many years. They were very efficient.
Bhagavān: Thing is, we should not become dependent on machine.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: This unemployment is to their discredit. In the karmis' society the unemployment is a great discredit, now people sitting idle.
Prabhupāda: There will be great catastrophe. The unemployment will increase, and people will be very dissatisfied with the.... Especially the black. They will create havoc. This is artificial. They are increasing the production of tire tube and lid. So who will purchase? Nobody lives in the tire tube. Therefore unemployment. So therefore reduce production. You cannot go on increasing. You very much trade this tire tube and so many artificial.... It is very artificial civilization. If you produce.... (break) Here so far milk and food grains are concerned, whatever sumptuously you want to eat, eat. Balance you can keep stock. The milk can be converted into ghee, then keep stock, and the grains can be stocked. Whenever you like, you just grind the grains and have to eat, halava.
Prabhupāda: You have so much land to cultivate here.
Devotee (1): ...they produce a type of nut.
Prabhupāda: Who eats that?
Devotee (1): We can eat. We roast in the oven, it is very good, offer it to the Deities.
Prabhupāda: (break).... A small potato, in the śukta you gave it?
Harikeśa: No, that was radish.
Devotee (1): See from the garden many tomatoes and squash. Cauliflower is coming also.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...a large stock of water.
Devotee (1): Yes. There is lots of water underground, but it requires great equipment to bring it up in order to water all the land.
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty?
Devotee (1): We have only the previous pump which was here before, and it's not strong enough to water everything. So we need to install a new pump to get more water.
Prabhupāda: This land ours?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Devotee: After you spoke with the mayor in Geneva, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he was worried about the economy of the country, when you explained if we cultivated grains there will be no problem.
Yogeśvara: "If people become devotees of Kṛṣṇa, then who will work?"
Prabhupāda: What was answer?
Hari-śauri: What answer did you give?
Yogeśvara: Do you remember the answer Śrīla Prabhupāda gave?
Devotee: Prabhupāda said we work for cultivating grains. All living entities to live together peacefully. (projector goes off)
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Bhagavān: It's a very wonderful place.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We can get many wonderful places like this all over the world. But they have not been taught how to utilize them.
Bhagavān: But I think in one year they have done nicely. They have built a greenhouse and planted all the cultivated land.
Prabhupāda: No, they are working hard, there is no doubt about it.
Bhagavān: And the temple also, Deity worship and everything.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, things are going nicely. There is no doubt about it. And children should be given that much education—to read and write and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān: The devotees are talking how nice it was to sit outside with you and chant and hear you speak tonight. I remember the last time I was in New Vrindaban many years ago, when I first became a devotee. You were sitting outside, giving some lecture, series of lectures on Vyāsadeva and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I like this life, from my very childhood. And on our roof there were trees, plants, flower plants, and... My grandmother, she... We, all grandchildren used to water it. So downstairs we took water in, what is called? A jhāri?
Prabhupāda: Then? Then? No, it is not finished? Next verse?
Hari-śauri:
- mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa
- śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana
- (CC Madhya 19.152)
"When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of śravaṇa and kīrtana (hearing and chanting), the seed will begin to sprout." Purport: "To live with devotees or to live in a temple means to associate with the śravaṇa-kīrtana process. Sometimes neophyte devotees think that they can continue the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity, but the execution of śravaṇa-kīrtana is meant for highly developed devotees like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who engaged in the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity. However, one should not falsely imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura and abandon Deity worship just to try to engage in śravaṇa-kīrtana. This is not possible for neophyte devotees. The word guru-prasāda indicates that the spiritual master is very merciful in bestowing the boon of devotional service upon the disciple. That is the best possible gift the spiritual master has to offer. Those with a background of pious life are eligible to receive life's supreme benefit, and to bestow this benefit, the Supreme Personality of Godhead sends His representative to impart His mercy. Endowed with the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master distributes the mercy to those who are elevated and pious. Thus the spiritual master trains his disciples to render devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called guru-kṛpā. It is kṛṣṇa-prasāda, Kṛṣṇa's mercy, that He sends a bona fide spiritual master to the deserving disciple. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one meets the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of the spiritual master, the disciple is fully trained in the devotional service of the Lord. Bhakti-latā-bīja means 'the seed of devotional service.' Everything has an original cause, or seed. For any idea, program, plan or device, there is first of all the contemplation of the plan, and that is called bīja, or the seed. The methods, rules and regulations by which one is perfectly trained in devotional service constitute the bhakti-latā-bīja, or the seed of devotional service. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received from the spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Other seeds are called anyābhilāṣa-bīja, karma-bīja and jñāna-bīja. If one is not fortunate enough to receive the bhakti-latā-bīja from the spiritual master, he instead cultivates the seeds of karma-bīja, jñāna-bīja, or political and social or philanthropic bīja. However, bhakti-latā-bīja is different from these other bījas. Bhakti-latā-bīja can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get bhakti-latā-bīja (yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **). Bhakti-latā-bīja is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bīja, or root cause, of karma, jñāna and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. However, one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-latā-bīja. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called śravaṇa-kīrtana-hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting (kīrtana). This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā: vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana (BG 2.41). One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-latā-bīja after receiving instructions from the spiritual master." I remember in Hawaii, this section here, it says a person is fortified by both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, and you said that Kṛṣṇa gives you the weapon and the spiritual master sharpens it, the weapon of knowledge, and in that way we can become free from material bondage.
Prabhupāda: The classes should be regularly held. Those who are engaged in the field work, then let them work, but woman or others, they should hear in the class. They should attend.
Prabhupāda: Goal is there, because spirit is important. Without spirit, matter has no value. This is a material box, but because it has no spirit, it has no value. It has value, comparatively, but not as valuable as a human being because there is no spirit. You can move, if you like, you can go immediately, but this, for many thousands of years it will lie down here. It cannot move. Because there is no spirit. Therefore spirit is important. So this distinction is possible to understand in the human form of body. What is the distinction between a human being or a living man and this box? The distinction is that the living being has the spirit soul within and the box has no spirit soul within. Now if we take care of this box outwardly, that we should take; similarly if you take care of the body only, then where is spiritual culture? If you take care of the four principles of bodily necessities, eating, sleeping and sex and defense, then where is spiritual culture? The aim should be spiritual culture, at least for human beings. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand what is the distinction between spirit and soul, er, spirit and matter, but a human being can understand. This is spiritual side, this is material side. The spiritual side is important. Therefore the goal is how to understand the spiritual side. That is the goal. If we don't cultivate the spiritual side, simply we take care of the bodily side, then we remain animals. And because people are taking only care for the body, this is animal civilization. Human civilization means to take care of the spiritual side. If there is no such attempt to take care of the spiritual side, simply for the material side, then we are no better than the animals. Because they cannot take any care of the spiritual side. They can take care of the material side.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Upon the body for existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the soul is dependent on the material body because he has no spiritual culture. Just like we Indians, we were under the British rule. So long there was no national movement, they remained dependent on the Britishers. But as soon as there was national movement they became independent. This is a crude example. Similarly, because we have no spiritual cultivation, we are dependent on this material body. Actually, the soul is not dependent on the body. It has become so under certain condition: because he's thinking that he is this body. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha is an ass. Mūḍha means ass. So I do not know what it is here. In India the asses are kept by the washerman. The washerman loads tons of cloth on the back of the ass to take it to the waterside, and again he brings back to the washerman shop, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass, little, and he eats the grass and stands there to carry the tons of load, thinking that he's dependent on the washerman. He has no intelligence that grass can be had anywhere, why I am dependent on this washerman to carry so much load. Lack of knowledge. Similarly, we are dependent on this body for lack of spiritual knowledge. As soon as he'll be enlightened by spiritual knowledge, then no more dependence. Therefore it is (indistinct). Otherwise, he'll remain like an ass perpetually dependent on the washerman. Mūḍha. We are thinking that without this body we cannot live. No. That is not the fact. We can live independently of this body. But our present position, because we have no spiritual culture, we are thinking that we are dependent on this body. Actually, we are not dependent. That will be revealed the more you advance in spiritual culture. What was his question before?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Is your question satisfied?
Peter: Yes. (pause)
Prabhupāda: It is something like gum? (?)
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Peter: Is there any point in your practice do you consider yourself free from taking lower re-births? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...but if there is no material activities, then you are not affected. This is possible. Just like an iron rod, you put into the fire. Gradually, it becomes warmer, warmer, and at last, when it is red hot, it is fire, no more iron. Similarly, even though we have got this material body, if we cultivate spiritual life, then the activities of the material body will stop automatically. Therefore it is no more material. The same example, the iron rod has become already fire. So you put it in the fire, and continue it, then you'll understand that it is no more iron rod, it is fire. Touch anywhere it will burn. You cannot say it is iron bar. Similarly, if you become spiritually enlightened, then the material activities will stop and then you'll be happy. (break) You'll feel, "Yes, I have got some food."
Jayapatākā: We were all useless in the West, but you have come and then engaged us.
Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Nobody is useless. I was also useless. I could not do in India alone anything. This is... Again this example (laughs). Two useless makes useful. Intelligence alone cannot work. Money is required. One man was challenged, "You have no intelligence." So he said, "Yes." He was searching these..."No, why you are searching here?" "No, here is intelligence. If here is money, then my intelligence can work. Otherwise what is the use of intelligence?" But he was searching here," Whether I have got intelligence?" Simply intelligence... In industry also: land labor capital, organization, four things. Simple capital will not do. Simple organization will not do. A man may have very good brain power, organization, but if he has no money-useless. So four things required: land, labor, capital, organization. That minister in Raṅganātha (?), he is inclined to spend huge income of Tirupati, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he is bound up by other colleagues. They are applying the money. So he's willing to call all the ministers if I can convince them. I shall try it. Just... In the Bhagavad-gītā, that is, yajñārthe karma. Everyone is karmī. So the karmīs, the village cultivators or big men industrialists, they are going to Tirupati. Whatever then can spare, they are offering. That is yajñārthe. If this money is taken and again if it is brought into karmī, then it is misleading. Karmīs are giving them. Just like people are giving us money. They are karmīs. But because they are giving us and we are engaging the money in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so the money is fully utilized. But if this money again taken and again to the karmīs....
Jayapatākā: Without any spiritual work.
Gargamuni: It doesn't matter, though. It's still...
Prabhupāda: They are not... It is a small cultivator's cooperative.
Gargamuni: I wouldn't trust a small bank. At any time they can lose. They only have three or four branches.
Jayapatākā: They're backed by the Reserve Bank.
Gargamuni: It doesn't matter.
Jayapatākā: What do you mean, it doesn't matter? What big bank?
Prabhupāda: Then who is going to deposit five lakhs of rupees with them? That is not possible.
Jayapatākā: Yes, that's all right, but as far as the bank goes...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We can go on without the business. We cannot deposit.
Jayapatākā: Any banker goes there, they'll want a deposit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why should we deposit five lakhs of rupees? The money value is decreasing daily.
Jayapatākā: We get credit.
Saurabha: It is beautiful. It's very beautiful.
Prabhupāda: It's near Bombay. So if you can go and come...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay is going to be so big when the building is completed.
Saurabha: It's on a hill, but the land is flat so you can cultivate it.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Saurabha: It's excellent. And from there you can see down. You look down, and then you see the river Krishna.
Prabhupāda: It is a plateau.
Saurabha: Yes, a plateau.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: See the river Krishna.
Saurabha: Yes, you can just see the river flowing down there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is beautiful spot.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Mahabaleswar(?) is well known. Yes.
Jayapatākā: They have nice cows there, nice vegetables.
Saurabha: Oh, yes. Everywhere... What is the name of that root we ate on ekādaśī?
Prabhupāda: So take it and develop according to your plan. Develop.
Saurabha: It's a place known for strawberry cultivation.
Prabhupāda: What do you think will be the expenditure to develop it into a nice place?
Saurabha: For agriculture I can't say, but according to me, it is all level. They have leveled everything out. It's like terrace. It's just... We can start growing anything there—potatoes, grains, strawberries, fruits.
Prabhupāda: Now for residential quarter there is already bungalow.
Saurabha: There is a bungalow with four big... It's a big bungalow. And stone is available there, just like here in Hyderabad. At the back of the land it's like a rocky area. One small portion that is so much stone there available, so you can just build from the stone anything. The land can be used for the cement, instead of cement. So very cheap you can build there.
Prabhupāda: One lakh rupees? No.
Prabhupāda: Say ten rooms.
Saurabha: Ten rooms.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The gṛhasthas from Bombay could be moved over there.
Prabhupāda: No, gṛhasthas can live, go to the farm.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they can go from Bombay to there. They can cultivate our farm.
Saurabha: For sixty thousand rupees we can build sufficient accommodation, and then the rest we need...
Prabhupāda: So we can spend up to one lakh and make more rooms.
Saurabha: Yes. And when you come there the house is sufficient for you to stay. It's very nice. Big rooms.
Prabhupāda: So we shall go in October.
Saurabha: There's three big wells available. Three big wells are there.
Prabhupāda: Wells? Very good.
Hari-śauri: Technology.
Prabhupāda: That is not advancement.
Hari-śauri: They can't see any use for philosophy and fine arts any more.
Prabhupāda: Because they do not know what is soul. They do not know what is missing. Why the body is useless. They do not cultivate... The most important thing they do not cultivate. This man was so important one second before. Now the whole body is useless. It has to be thrown away. They do not give attention even to this. How he becomes... Second before he was Mr. Churchill or Mr. such and such, very important man. All men showing respect. And now he is useless. If somebody kicks on his face nobody will say. Out of sentiment they protest, but the man will not protest.
Hari-śauri: They stick him in the ground. Put him in a box.
Prabhupāda: But why this happened, this why question does not come. They are so dull. For that thing missing. And these rascal scientists will theorize, the blood becomes white, this becomes that, that becomes that. And do it. If the blood has become white then make it red. Mix some color or chemical and bring him to life. "No, the life-giving substance is lost." Oh, life-giving substance is not lost. So many germs are coming. Why do you say the life-giving substance is lost? It is there. They do not consider all these things. If matter is life-giving substance, matter is there. Decomposed matter is also matter. Just like stool, a decomposed remnants of foodstuff. That is also matter. Stool is also matter. The same (indistinct) is there. The earth is there, the water is there, the heat is there. What is the loss there? And actually you see from this matter, from the stool so many worms are coming out. How do you say that the life-giving matter is missing? That you cannot explain. Still they will not accept that the soul is gone. That individual soul is gone. This is their intelligence. Give me that stamp. So before... (end)
Prabhupāda: Therefore, Bhagavān concludes at the end, "You rascal, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)." This is dharma. To surrender to the Lord. That is dharma. In another place, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Without this, all cheating. If there is no bhakti, surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all these kind of dharmas, they're all cheating. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). On this, Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented, atra mokṣa vañca api nirastam.(?) Dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So according to this principle, they're all cheating. So-called religious system, artha, economic development, sense gratification. Just like that, we have created so many social dharmas. Saṁsāra-dharma, gṛhastha-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. So in that way, they're all-cheating. Therefore, our request is that yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). In the Bālajī's temple, mostly poor cultivators. I have seen, they go. And they want to give something to the Lord. Yajñārthe. So the karmīs, they're advised, yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam. "Give me." So these karmīs, somehow or other, by their great fortune, they're giving something to the Lord. Yajñārthe. That money should not be utilized for any other purpose. That is our message. It must be utilized for the purpose to fulfill the mission of the Lord. Mission of the Lord is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). How people can be trained up to give up all these nonsensical type of dharma, and how to become a devotee of Lord. For this purpose this money should be spent. Then it will be all right.
Prabhupāda: Go on, go on. I have given any purport?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are many devotees who assume themselves to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service but at heart do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as the Absolute Truth. For them, the fruit of devotional service-going back to Godhead—will never be tasted. Similarly, those who are engaged in fruitive, pious activities and who are ultimately hoping to be liberated from this material entanglement will never be successful either because they deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same. With such a false conviction, they think that the body of any human being is now simply covered by material nature and that as soon as one is liberated from this material body there is no difference between God and himself. This attempt to become one with Kṛṣṇa will be baffled because of delusion. Such atheistic and demoniac cultivation of spiritual knowledge is always futile. That is the indication of this verse. For such persons, cultivation of the knowledge in the Vedic literature, like the Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads, is always baffled.
It is a great offense, therefore, to consider Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to be an ordinary man. Those who do so are certainly deluded because they cannot understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa. In the Bṛhad-vaiṣṇava mantra it is clearly stated that one who considers the body of Kṛṣṇa to be material should be driven out from all rituals and activities of the śruti. And if one by chance sees his face, he should at once take bath in the Ganges to rid himself of infection. People jeer at Kṛṣṇa because they are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their destiny is certainly to take birth after birth in the species of atheistic and demoniac life. Perpetually, their real knowledge will remain under delusion, and gradually they will regress to the darkest region of creation.
Indian man (3): I was reading this yesterday, the Eleventh Chapter. There are twelve, twelve chapters. There Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān had a dialogue with Uddhava.
Pradyumna: He's referring to Ekādaśa-skandha of the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Uddhava.
Prabhupāda: If there is war they were not affected. And the soldiers would not bother the public. It is said during Mohammedan period the soldiers of one party will ask the cultivator, "Where the other soldiers gone?" They would say, "I have seen and they have gone this side." The cultivator is going on. The fighting is going on, but the cultivator is not affected. He is free. "You fight between themselves and whoever the victor is, I shall pay taxes. That's all. I have nothing to do with politics." This was... Between two parties of king or political, they may fight. Citizens, they have nothing to do who is the victorious. "You fight and one of you will become victorious. So you take taxes. I am concerned with paying tax. And tax, tax means whatever I have grown, you take one-fourth. You see this I have grown. Now you can take away one-fourth." No income tax, no sale tax, no this tax or that tax. And if some year, by chance, he has not grown anything—no tax. "I have not produced, I could not produce anything." Very simple. Soldiers, they were not paid. They were given land by the king. "You enjoy this land without any price. But when there is fight you have to come out." Fight is not going every day. It may take place after some years. So they are living peacefully.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, everything, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Anything fresh. Any cultivator, he has got little land surrounding his house and he's growing vegetables like squash, chilis, and some spinage, spinach?
Haṁsadūta: Spinach, śāka.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And...
Haṁsadūta: Eggplant.
Prabhupāda: Eggplant. And this banana. So whatever he's grown he takes in a basket, goes to the market, immediately sold. And they're all fresh. Collected in the morning, and it is sold by eight o'clock. All fresh vegetables. There was no export, there was no facility of transport. These rascals introduced transport. Big scale transport, this railway. There was no railway. So transport means this villager, instead of selling locally or one mile away, he will dispatch in Calcutta. The Calcutta people, they are sitting on table and smoking and printing paper money and exploit.
Indian man (4): My first identification is my own body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is ajñāna. So long you are identifying with the body, you are no better than the animal. So we are doing that. We are fighting. "I am Indian. You are Englishman. You are this. You are that. You are..." Simply we are fighting, like cats and dogs, they fight. So that is ajñāna. How you can be prasannātmā? So when one becomes actually situated in spiritual life, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is the... In this way when you make further progress, when you actually understand that you are eternal servant of God, then you surrender. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This situation takes many, many births to cultivate. And when he actually understands, jñānavān—not fools, rascals—then māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That mahātmā is very rare to be found. So bhakti is not so easy. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. It is not so easy. It takes many, many births to come to the understanding that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā.
Indian man (4): Does the soul which passes from body to body, does it or he experience the pains and pleasures of my body?
Prabhupāda: Certainly. You just strike one dog—"Ka! Ka! Ka!" Why? Does not feel pain? And Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has proved even the trees, they feel pains and pleasure.
Prabhupāda: Maharastra Province is rich? I don't think so.
Mr. Malhotra: It is like this, that Maharastra is industrially quite stable. But that only Bombay and one, two cities. The rest of Maharastra is poor. There is not much cultivation.
Prabhupāda: But industry it belongs to the other persons, not to the Maharastrians.
Mr. Malhotra: Hm?
Prabhupāda: All these Bombay industries, they belong to the outsiders.
Mr. Malhotra: Outsiders. Now in Punjab for instance, they have created sufficient wheat to cater the entire country. That is 4/5 of the total need of the country of wheat is supplied by Punjab.
Prabhupāda: But it is always.
Mr. Malhotra: Punjab and Haryana, now they are two, but both together.
Prabhupāda: Punjab is the best province in India.
Mr. Malhotra: You know we came and settled in Poona after partition of the country. Previously we were in Rawalpindi. (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: On my way to Kashmir.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hari-śauri: I think in the West they have a law that says you can't use human sewage.
Prabhupāda: Kick out the West. We are doing here, in India. The municipality is doing that also in Vṛndāvana. Everywhere it is. In Calcutta there is called dhāpāra māṭha. Dhāpāra māṭha, formerly, anything produced in dhāpāra māṭha, that was not used for Deity. The superstition that "These vegetables are grown in filthy water, nasty..." But the vegetables were-cauliflower so big, so big. Everything, very luxuriantly, very tasteful and solid and big... Dhāpāra māṭhera (Bengali). They used to take. In Bengal, generally, the land is very fertile to produce vegetables. But this, the more the filthy things of the city were thrown there, and the cultivator used to grow very nice... That is utilization of this filthy water where there was sewer ditches formerly. In the village they diverted from the water in the field, and they got good crops. Generally they pass stool in the field. The cow's, cow dung and man's stool and everyone's stool, they are wrapped gathered together in the rainy season. It became fertile. (Hindi)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We will try for the land.
Prabhupāda: Immediately. That is... That will be proper utilization. And in the court, unless they arrange for this dirty water out, why shall I pay tax? We shall stick to this position.
Hari-śauri: I don't think there'll be any problem there.
Prabhupāda: So arrange like that. We want. Then I'll print all books, keep in stock. Never mind. Why use the bank?
Hari-śauri: Rāmeśvara's coming soon. I can...
Prabhupāda: Hm. Keep in stock. It will be sold. There is no doubt.
Hari-śauri: And now we have so many different languages coming out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And here, if we make closet or on the wall. We can keep anywhere, all the verandas, all these rooms, four walls, keeping books, book stock. Make vigorous propaganda by advertising, "Read Hare Kṛṣṇa literature. Hare Kṛṣṇa is wonderful." In this way advertise. Hindi, English, Bengali. I can give suggestion; you do it. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... We are getting paper now, government paper. Money is there. Now we have to print very intelligently, and even it is not immediately sold, we can keep stock. (pause) (break) "Cultivate seriously spiritual life. Welcome. Come here. Live with us. We have got enough place." They want that sense gratification in the old age, when the senses are no more capable, still. (end)
Prabhupāda: Is it possible to stop it? Or young men, if he says "No, no, I'm not going to..." but everyone wants that. Young man does not want to become old man, but by nature's law he has to become.
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
So the idea is that after losing our own culture, we have become set of fools. This is the real conclusion. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We have become so lowest of mankind and mūḍha and full of sinful activities that we cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa says. This is real position. I am not speaking—Kṛṣṇa says. This is the sign. If one does not hear Kṛṣṇa, then he must be grouped in these categories: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. What is the value of their so-called education if they cannot understand the simple truth, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? What is the value of this education? Today I may be very big man, but I do not know that there is dehāntara. And what kind of deha I am going to get? Nobody has any knowledge, neither they're interested to cultivate. They have concluded that "After death, everything is finished." This is their education. Blind. Westerners, they say it frankly. That big, big professor, I have talked: "Swamiji, after death everything is finished." This is their conclusion. And our first education is that: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And they have given up everything. Kartāham iti manyate. (Hindi) If you do not know the science, simply by false prestige you say "No, whatever I am thinking, it is all right." Are you free? You are completely under the laws of material nature. Why you are thinking foolishly? This is Indian culture. Even in the village, remotest village, you go and they will say, (Hindi) pūrva-janme... (Hindi) They'll say. This is India's culture, pūrva-janma, paro-janma, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And you have lost your sense. What kind of education? What is the value of this education? Very precarious condition.
Prabhupāda: Yā niśā. Yā. Y.
Hari-śauri: Y. Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānām?
Prabhupāda: Hm. (Hindi) But they are kept in darkness. This civilization is like that.
Hari-śauri:
- yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī
- yasyāṁ jāgrati bhūtāni
- sā niśā paśyato muneḥ
"What is night for all beings is the time of awakening for the self-controlled, and the time of awakening for all beings is night for the introspective sage." Purport? "There are two classes of intelligent men. The one is intelligent in material activities for sense gratification and the other is introspective and awake for the cultivation of self-realization. Activities of the introspective sage or thoughtful man are night for persons materially absorbed. Materialistic persons remain asleep in such a night due to their ignorance of self-realization. The introspective sage remains alert in the 'night' of the materialistic men. The sage feels transcendental pleasure in the gradual advancement of spiritual culture, whereas the man in materialistic activities, being asleep to self-realization, dreams of varieties of sense pleasure, feeling sometimes happy and sometimes distressed in his sleeping condition. The introspective man is always indifferent to materialistic happiness and distress. He goes on with his self-realization activities undisturbed by material reaction."
Mr. Asnani: Oh, I was taking sometime in literary sense. So it was sometimes confusing me.
Prabhupāda: No, it is literally, that yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. He, spiritualist person, he knows, that "What is the use of the sense gratification? The sense gratification is there in the cats and dogs. Why I am wasting in this way?" That is awakened. What is the difference? A man is having sex life in a very nice apartment, very decorated and nice cot. He is enjoying sex life, that "I am advanced civili..." And the dog is enjoying sex life on the street in presence of everyone. But the enjoyment of sex life is the same. There is no difference either for the dog or the man. So the spiritualistic man, he says that "Why shall I waste my time in sex enjoyment? This is enjoyed by the dogs and cats. I have got this human form of life for spiritual advancement." So saṁyamī: "Stop this nonsense. Let me cultivate spiritual life." Saṁyamī. Saṁyamī means sense gratification stopped. That is saṁyamī. And he is not saṁyamī. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. Because he's not saṁyamī, his sense are uncontrolled, so he's opening the path of hellish condition of life. The business is the same—āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam—based on this maithuna, sex life. So you'll find the fly is doing the same thing, and the dog is doing the same thing, and the human being is also doing the same thing, and the king of heaven, he is doing the same thing. The business is the same. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Only the body is different. But they are thinking that "If in the body of Indra, I can have sex with Śacīdevi, that is advancement." He does not think that the sex life with Śacīdevī or the street dog, it is same. There is no difference. And that is jāgarti. That is awakened. There is one word. Where it is, I don't remember. Maithunam agaram ajñāḥ. This is.... This material life is a term of imprisonment of imprisonment in sex. Just like imprisonment means you are detained in a place allotted by the government, you cannot go out. So here, this material world, the imprisonment is the sex. You cannot go out.
Rāmeśvara: Not change your dress, but change your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, we never said. If you prefer that kind of dress, costly, you prefer it, but we are simplified.
Rāmeśvara: It's our choice.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: As a person becomes more purified, then he'll simplify himself anyway. And if he really cultivates a desire to...
Prabhupāda: Now, nowadays coat-pant is very costly. If you can spend your money, costly dress, we have no objection. Then you have to earn more; you have to work more. Therefore we are simplified.
Rāmeśvara: Ultimately, it is the best thing.
Prabhupāda: If they want to come in that dress, come in. If you want, come in.
Rāmeśvara: I have been studying this record business in the last month or two.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rāmeśvara: I've been studying the record business in America. People spend more money on records than they do on books. In general people are buying more records than books.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Give them some seat. Is there any carpet? Bring something.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Trouble.
Prabhupāda: Trouble. And whisping for laugh. That's all. (laughs) Whisping or whispering?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whispering.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) "Idle brain, devil's workshop." Then?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "In the year 1976 we cultivated 5 acres of vegetables, including 24 tons of potatoes. We also have 25 beehives, which produce 100 pounds of honey per hive. There is also a fruit orchard with a 150 trees, including apples, pears, peaches, and plum trees. Lastly, we are fortunate..."
Prabhupāda: Those fruits are nice fruits.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Lastly we are fortunate to have two natural pure water mountain springs running continuously all year. The water is being bottled and then distributed." And we take that water to New York.
Prabhupāda: Very digestive.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. And water sells now for a dollar a gallon now in New York. A good market.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: I do not remember, but may be.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So. Anyway, he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board because he's a big tea importer, so he has connections. So he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board. They're so dishonest. Even this is the five-star hotel. It's a big hotel in Calcutta, one of the two or three best, and they're so dishonest that as soon as a foreigner comes, they can figure out where the valuables are and they steal it. And most people will let them get away with it. He may not, because he's got so many connections. But it's so dishonest. Even they make an attempt to cultivate tourism and be professional but-spoiled.
Prabhupāda: Hotels are always unreliable. They have got duplicate key.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even during Sanātana Gosvāmī's time, that hotel-keeper.
Prabhupāda: Hotel you should not go simply by locking. Somebody must be there. Otherwise they have got duplicate key.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They just stole the whole suitcase.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They have got duplicate key. They can take.
Hari-śauri: Translation: "Those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form, to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have." Purport. "One who is unable to live for a moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot but think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all-auspicious and full of spiritual potency. Indeed, they make the devotee perfect in self-realization. Then his only desire is to achieve the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called yoga. By the mercy of the Lord such a devotee never comes back to this material condition of life. Kṣema refers to the merciful protection of the Lord. The Lord helps the devotee to achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness by yoga, and when he becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, the Lord protects him from falling down to a miserable conditioned life."
Prabhupāda: Why not do this business, guaranteed by Kṛṣṇa?
Bali-mardana: By your grace it is all possible. By your grace.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) You do this.
Bali-mardana: I think the potency is all coming from you.
Prabhupāda: No, it is there. I am simply trying to place before you. That's all. I believe. And that is my qualification. It is not that I doubt, no. You can say that is my qualification. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). Find out this verse. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. WHO. Geneva.
Prabhupāda: A butchers' health organization. Take these ideas all, there, everything is there, already mentioned. Cultivate. Try to give Kṛṣṇa in every... Let everyone come, stay with us, learn this art, preach all over the world. And Bombay is a city where you'll get all kind of help. Besides that, we shall get help from all over the world. But do it very cautiously, thoroughly. You don't take it as insignificant thing. Very important thing. I am talking of this Māyāpur. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya. Why He's stressing bhārata-bhūmi? Yes. It's a fact. Real knowledge is here, Bhagavad-gītā. Speaking Kṛṣṇa Himself. Why such knowledge should be denied? Is that all right?
Pañcadraviḍa: To lose this knowledge? No, it's not all right.
Prabhupāda: People are in darkness. To keep them like dogs, hogs, camels, and take vote from them and become a leader... Nobody protested that we call all the men dogs, hogs, camels. Nobody came forward, that "You are using very strong words." It's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is not for... You see. When we talk of diamond, it does not mean that everyone will be able to purchase it. But there must be the diamond. Because there is no customer, very many customer, diamond should be abolished?
Mr. Koshi: No.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Similarly, how many men will understand or not understand, that is not the consideration. But we have got in India such exalted knowledge. We must cultivate and distribute knowledge as far as possible. It is our duty. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). You understand Bengali?
Mr. Koshi: No.
Prabhupāda: "Anyone who has taken birth as human being in India, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra, first of all make your life successful by understanding what is life, and then distribute." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You have got this asset. You have rejected.
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? We are preaching internationalism, everyone welcome. Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being done. Real United Nations. Here is Christian, here is Jew, here is African, here is Muhammadan, everything. Worldwide. That is real United Nations. They have no conception. If they would thought that "I am American," then why he is after a poor Indian man? Indians are known outside India as poverty-stricken, and that's a fact. So why he should come to the person born of poverty-stricken nation? But actually we are not poverty-stricken. If we cultivate our own standard of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, then we are the richest and we can give the whole world the gift. That should be... And they will welcome. That will be glorified if they accept. Just see. This is our... I am trying for that.
Mr. Koshi: How are you trying?
Prabhupāda: India is not poverty-stricken. India can give him something which will glorify your life. It is meant... I do not say India is poverty-stricken. I say India is the richest. Believe it, take it. So we have no such concern as "India" or "America," no. We are concerned with the living entities. We have no such stagnant idea. Stagnation. We have no such thing. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma. That bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya. Manuṣya means man. He is different from others. Therefore he should know what is his position. Make his life successful and distribute the knowledge because they are ignorant. This should be India's position, teacher to the whole world. Not beggar.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was studying world history in college, when I read this system, they call it feudal, feudal system, I was very peaceful in my mind. I was very interested how nice everything, orderly... I was impressed with the order. Of course, I did not understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but I could see it was much nicer. This is chaos, the present-day system.
Prabhupāda: There was fighting between two political parties. The cultivator is working on the field. One party soldier and, "Where is the other party's soldiers?" "I have seen, they have gone this way." The soldiers of the king, let them fight. Therefore all the soldiers, they assembled in Kurukṣetra. It had nothing to do with the public. Fighting is going on, killing is going on in that big place. They were peaceful. "You conquer or either Kauravas. We shall pay tax. That's all." Why the public should be drawn?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays they drop one atom bomb, a whole half the country, half the people destroyed.
Prabhupāda: Then whole meeting, people are coming, Russian people. When Indira is empowered they are coming to hear her, and she is gone. Rascals. What is the value of their vote? Sometimes giving vote here, sometimes giving vote there.
Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaiṣṇavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vairāgya should be cultivated.
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija... Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7), janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jñānam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairāgya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is vairāgya.
Mahāṁśa: That... Yes, the advocate said if we go to the higher court, we will get a transfer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pay immediately and protest. They'll return immediately. Pay on protest.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Hm.
Mahāṁśa: Actually now, in the monsoons, we're going to take up a lot of cultivation. This is watermelon juice.
Prabhupāda: So give it to the Deity and distribute prasādam.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. It got a little spoiled while traveling. The tomatoes were squashed, but some of them are ripe.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It doesn't matter. So what is your news?
Indian devotee (1): So we also gained a farm. We have started cultivating now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is giving you good chance. Develop farm and have temple. Go on enthusiastically.
Mahāṁśa: This morning I read in the newspapers about the exodus to village soon by the Prime Minister, and there the Prime Minister says that he is eager on developing village programs to establish agriculture facilities and village programs.
Prabhupāda: That is real work. If the Prime Minister has got this thing in his brain, then I can understand that he can do so.
Prabhupāda: Bring some fruits.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I remembered Śrīla Prabhupāda's introduction to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and I began to speak further. 'Although mankind has made great material advancement in so many spheres, we can factually say that there is a fault in the social body at large. People are not happy with their day-to-day activities, and there is an increasing disturbance of drug addiction, prostitution, violence and crime. The root of the problem is lack of God consciousness. People are unaware of the actual purpose of life.' The judge, intrigued by this sound philosophy coming from the witness box, relaxed his judicial appearance, sat back, and took a sip of water from his glass. Encouraged, I asked, 'Your honor, with your permission I would like to read a short passage which appeared in the London Observer in October, 1972. It is an excerpt from an article written by the eminent English historian Sir Arnold Toynbee. "The cause of it, the world's malady, is spiritual. We are suffering from having sold our souls to the pursuit of an objective which is both spiritually wrong and practically unattainable. We have to reconsider our objective and change it, and until we do this, we shall not have peace either amongst ourselves or within each of us." ' Then the devotee continued. " 'As devotees of the Lord, we strictly follow four principles, cultivating the qualities of human life: mercifulness, truthfulness, cleanliness and austerity. The absence of these qualities means the degradation of society. So the spreading of spiritual understanding amongst humanity at large is the highest welfare work, and an essential part of this program is the distribution and the congregational chanting in the street of the holy names of God.' 'Is that all?' inquired the judge. 'Yes, sir,' was the reply. 'Then you may step down,' he instructed. Adjusting his spectacles and regarding the devotees, who were once more assembled in the dock, he said in a very firm yet amicable manner, 'In legal terms you are guilty of obstruction, although it is of a very minor degree. Taking this into consideration and because of your obvious sincerity, I have decided to dismiss the case.' We smiled jubilantly and, thanking the magistrate, were about to step down when Kṛṣṇa prompted me to say, 'Sir, we were wondering if you had a court library here, in which case we would like to present a book for addition to the collection.' 'Thank you,' replied the judge. 'I am quite sure we can accommodate it.' Giving a copy of Śrīla Prabhupāda's Śrī Īśopaniṣad to one of the clerks, who promised to pass it on to the judge, we left the courtroom, thanking Lord Nityānanda for His mercy." Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda
Guest (1): (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: And that judgment is still wrong.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This was written by one Sākṣī Gopāla dāsa brahmacārī. Named Sākṣī Gopāla dāsa.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Surendra Kumar: "...who has written and whose so many copies have been sold over... What are you doing if you can't help this organization?" Because there must be facts...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Surendra Kumar: And the facts must be so brought out, and that will make a new impact on his mind. That must be done. I told him, "You are a worthy man whose two lakhs of books were sold, three lakhs of books. Here is a person, crores of books have been sold. And we should cultivate him as a friend."
Prabhupāda: So whatever materials he wants, give him.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, definitely.
Prabhupāda: He went to show into foreign language, foreign religion, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Just see. (laughs) Standing order they give. (Hindi) This Indian culture, push on. Don't keep it lock up.
Surendra Kumar: Under your guidance...
Prabhupāda: Don't keep it lock up. Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yada sati. These words are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. (Hindi)
Surendra Kumar: Prabhupāda, this man, this literature he understands. He himself composes poetry in Urdu as well as in Hindi. And he likes that our Indian culture and our heritage must be spread all over.
Prabhupāda: So here is the opportunity. Come and join together.
Prabhupāda: Combine together. What is the difficulty.
Trivikrama: The one thing in my mind is that... I've been in Delhi a little while. I see that such a good pla... We could. Seems like if he was there also, somehow if we had... If we had Delhi as well as the whole... And you say Punjab. If that also included Delhi, I think we could manage, because the boy who's a president, he's a neophyte devotee, and aside from that, there's so many big men who've been our members for years. They want to help, but no one is cultivating them. Caitya-guru, er, Bhakti-caitanya and myself, we went to see a man yesterday, and they were so respectful. They've seen our movement in the foreign countries, and they've been our member five or six years, but no one is there who is capable of drawing them. So he was also... Because he knows the language and he... It was my feeling is... Because Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, he's always in Bombay, he doesn't... Not always, but he couldn't take as much interest in the Delhi affairs.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there's a couple of points. I discussed this with them. One thing is that your idea was that Trivikrama Mahārāja should go with Bhakti-caitanya to Punjab. So bringing up Delhi now doesn't solve anything, 'cause Trivikrama is already in Delhi. Whether Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja is eventually in charge of Delhi or Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is in charge of Delhi, in any case the real point is that Prabhupāda advised that he wanted you to go to Chandigarh 'cause that's where we want to develop.
Prabhupāda: So if you cannot combinedly manage the Delhi...
Trivikrama: There he is...
Prabhupāda: Do that.
Prabhupāda: You can write to Māyāpur. I think on the hill there are punar, punar navās.
Śatadhanya: Punar navās.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Śatadhanya: What is that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: A kind of herb, creeper, creeper that grows, punar navā. It is known practically to all cultivators. If they can collect punar navā, collect and send immediately. Ask Māyāpur.
Śatadhanya: Punar navās.
Prabhupāda: Punar navā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hiraṇyagarbha's going back there in a day. We have a boy going there in one day.
Śatadhanya: It is good medicinally?
Prabhupāda: For me. This medicine, what I am drinking, that is punar navā.
Prabhupāda: If he had no family member, he would marry again. (pause) But it was subject of criticism.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must have been.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. But the custom was that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like someone should simply cultivate spiritual life at that age instead of...
Prabhupāda: In Bhāgavata there are many instances, very old man married. Anyway, this gentleman was such a nice devotee. Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was particularly nice about his devotional quality?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which devotional qualities particularly did he...?
Prabhupāda: Because later on he retired—he was a pleader—so whole day and night, simply devotee. Sometimes he would offer obeisances to the Deity. Actually he was old man. He'll fall asleep by... And he would remain in that two, three hours.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then, if you cut the chicken's throat, then one day you have to have your throat cut.
Prabhupāda: That is not in the lawbook.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not a very good...
Prabhupāda: Karma-bandhana. Yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). And Western countries regularly cultivate chicken producing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah, there's a...
Prabhupāda: Big, big chicken within very short time.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big business. And unfortunately with beef also.
Prabhupāda: That is their staple food, chicken and beef and wine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think in Vṛndāvana there's so much of this meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: No. Here they eat meat very secretive, some.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very secretive?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Openly they'll never.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Make them... In Gujarat it is very good. So you show an example that other camp will...
Yaśomatīnandana: This year we are taking some cash crops just to develop the farm.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Yaśomatīnandana: But then, once we have developed, then we can have rice and wheat and then distribute free prasāda to everyone. Because every inch of the land is cultivatable.
Prabhupāda: I have given so much for... Try to repay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants you to engage the local people in farming that land. Can you do that?
Yaśomatīnandana: Well, we are doing it as...
Prabhupāda: Gradually.
Yaśomatīnandana: Gradually.
Prabhupāda: Gradually.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who's doing the cultivating now?
Yaśomatīnandana: We are doing it, and we are hiring it. Because if we just give them away, they will spoil it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you can't do that.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: They have got life now. The Indians, on account of this movement, they have got life. They were forlorn, completely cut off from Indian culture. Now they have got it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was in Ahmedabad last week. The farm that Bhogilal Patel gave, it's beautiful.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has made this.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very beautiful. I think it's even more beautiful than Hyderabad. It's hundred acres compared to six hundred acres, but all hundred acres is cultivable. And secondly, it is not far from the city. It is only like from Juhu to Churchgate. It's even less than that.
Yaśomatīnandana: Eight miles.
Prabhupāda: It is nothing.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nothing. It took us fifteen minutes by scooter to get that. So I suggested to Yaśo that we should make that farm like New Vrindaban. Let us build a temple there...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:...in our land and come there for the weekend.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will pay for that.
Yaśomatīnandana: Two, three members already told me.
Prabhupāda: Three, four rooms, one cottage. They will come and live comfortably.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very beautiful land, all green, all hundred acres cultivable.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa has given this facility.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That I thought can be the best project. And it's not far from the city.
Prabhupāda: It is not at all. It is within city. Eight miles is within. If you go to see some friend, you have to go eight miles.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And I told them they could buy scooters.
Prabhupāda: This farm...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You like the idea also...
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also that will add attractions to the outsiders, if we have these nice places. Everybody who came here, those few scientists... About fifty-five, I think, all came. Most of them told me that they never knew that such thing existed in Vṛndāvana. It's such a nice place, and very peaceful and... They never expected that these things existed in Vṛndāvana. And they were very impressed. Even our incomplete building and with all our incomplete arrangements, they were very amazed that such thing existed. And one... Actually a few of them from Agra told me that "Next time, if you hold a conference," he said, "I will take all responsibility to bring all the scientists from around Agra, Delhi, and everything." He said he didn't know that such things might exist. So Vṛndāvana is also a place where people come and we can cultivate their..., to bring them to the spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Actually it's very true that when they see our temple and to see our children, oh, they were so impressed that they say they will come back. And some of them attended maṅgala-ārati and some of them attended Bhāgavatam class, even those who came for our conference. And so... Especially those who came with wives, very attracted to see our Deities and the photographs, nice, from all over the world. Everything was so attractive. Even the Mishra, who was so Māyāvādī during our conference, also was almost materialist, his wife was so influential. His wife was actually a devotee. And I spent about two hours in his room with them, and she was instructing him that "You think that everything is just chemicals." And she was telling him that "Why don't you think that God existed before, there was God, and everything's coming from Him? And do research on the basis of that. If you do that, then everything will be nice." She was telling him that "Without bhakti, your science isn't going to give you any happiness, no pleasure." So actually she... Then he almost became a devotee. He said, "Yes, yes, yes." (laughter) And they wanted to see Śrīla Prabhupāda just before they went. I told them that doctor told us that we shouldn't allow any, even the devotees, not so crowded in the room, because doctor advises not to do so. So I requested that "When Prabhupāda gets better, you please come back. Prabhupāda's going to get better. Then we'll have the opportunity to allow you to have Prabhupāda's darśana." So they say they will come back, bring their children. Especially they were very impressed by our Gurukula boys. They said it reminded them Kṛṣṇa's boyhood pastimes just seeing our Gurukula boys. Especially every day we had invocation by the Gurukula boys and Yaśodānandana Mahārāja from Brahma-saṁhitā. The vibrations were so potent that everybody was very impressed. Though we didn't have all the guests that we invited, but still, I think, those few who came, I think they have very good appreciation about Śrīla Prabhupāda's program. Especially bhakti-vedānta... Mishra's relation was very significant. He said he never had in his life to see this bhakti-vedānta. He called all of us Bhakti-vedantists. He said he was always Advaita-vedantist, and he said he never saw a bhakti-vedāntī. He said it was a great experience. He said he was very grateful that he came to the conference. And he had great appreciation of the whole movement. They said, "Just imagine that in about ten years a big empire can be built in such a pure spirit." So like that, Dr. Soni... Dr. Soni is the Deputy General of Indian Council of Agricultural Research. He's also a big government scientist. To see these people one cannot just go and see them. You have to wait for so many red tapes just to go to them. He came with his family. He was the chief guest on Sunday, and he had such a great appreciation of our whole movement, and he told me very frankly in his opening speech that a few years ago he saw the devotees in Picadilly Circus, first time in London. And about that time he said he had a very wrong impression, negative impression of the whole movement. He said he thought it was not very impressive. He told me very frankly that when I came to invite him for this to be the chief guest on Sunday, just on the basis of that, he was not willing to accept the invitation. But then, he said, after talking with me for a few minutes, he changed his whole attitude and decided to come. And he expressed that he was very grateful that he came and he learned a lot. He said this is one of the noblest causes that one can dedicate. So he had a great appreciation for the movement. So like that, we'd like to make some friends, especially in the higher, educated classes of people. I'm very hopeful, by the mercy of Your Divine Grace and Kṛṣṇa's mercy, that we can at least follow your instructions. Then I think we can do it.
Prabhupāda: A round table we have in Delhi?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Delhi?
Prabhupāda: That round table?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, the fact that he turned to Communism... Probably he's intelligent but frustrated. That's why they turn to this Communism. And he has a very good upbringing, so much association. I mean Vrindavan had no association, but M.M. had a lot of association, not only with Your Divine Grace but with your Guru Mahārāja and Godbrothers. So perhaps with proper, little cultivation, he might...
Prabhupāda: You give him the scheme and ask him if he wants to discuss this with me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. But I won't have the amendment to the scheme until tomorrow night.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Amendment you can give later on. You can give the scheme.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I think I have a copy of it. All right. Yeah, that's good, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then the letter will be better. I was thinking it should have... This first thing I write should include that scheme.
Prabhupāda: You give him the scheme. Ask him to come and discuss first.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll do that. It's not very difficult for him to come to Māyāpur. All right.
Prabhupāda: So they can go to the temple now, this saṅkīrtana?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us go to the temple? You want to go to the temple now?
Prabhupāda: Myself?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean the devotees here?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja, daṇḍavat. (Bengali)
Bhaktivikāśa: (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) What is the position of Bhadrak?
Gaura-govinda: Bhadrak, there are three devotees now, Ātma-tattva, Kṛṣṇadāsa and Rohiṇī-nandana, and they were preaching and making some members. Bhadrak is a good place for preaching. And I also come there. Just on the 1st November, there was a festival that on that day Caitanya Mahāprabhu arrived there when He was going from Jagannātha Purī to Vṛndāvana. They observe that festival. So they have invited us to speak in that meeting on that day. Bhāgavata and I came. There was a great festival and we do nagara-saṅkīrtana in the evening. In the meeting Bhāgavata spoke and then I spoke. This was very nice.
Prabhupāda: People are coming?
Gaura-govinda: Yes, people are coming. In Bhadrak they have eight acres of land there. It's cultivated land. If we can manage ourselves, then that will be nice. Now this Mahārāja has given it to other agents. They'll take half and give the half. Nobody was there to look after it. So if we look after it now personally, and take it up ourselves, then it will be managed nicely. And there are two cows also, it has got.
Prabhupāda: The arrangement is nice.
| Page Title: | Cultivation (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 21 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=130, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 130 |