Scheverman: So you see that as in nature, as coming from the Lord God Himself, these three levels.
Prabhupāda: Now, when I did not come to your country, I thought that in America, everyone is rich.
Scheverman: (laughs) Most everyone in another country thinks everyone in America is rich, yes. There's only one class here.
Prabhupāda: But when I came here I saw so many bums—are called bums? (laughter) They are lying on the street.
Kern: But we think that...
Prabhupāda: First of all, let me finish. So why, America, they are lying on the street?
Kern: They're not. They're not.
Prabhupāda: How, what can you do?
Kern: A few are, but...
Prabhupāda: Not few, many.
Kern: No.
Prabhupāda: Maybe few, but why there should be at all?
Scheverman: You mean in a rich country like this, why should anyone be on the street?
Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. There will be a third-class or poor class man, which you even want to help them, they'll not accept your help. That is another thing. These three phases.... I have seen in London, the British Empire, and the hippies, they are lying on the park, and the police kicking, "Hey, ut, ut," (laughter) But I mean to say, the nature is law, nature's law, that a richer class, middle class and a poorer class. That will continue.
Scheverman: Jesus said the poor you have always with you. But at the same time, he said we must go out and give what assistance we can as a Christian community.
Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...
Scheverman: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the homeless.
Prabhupāda: A man is poor when he's in ignorance.
Scheverman: So you see that as a greater poverty, is the ignorance, rather than the physical poverty of not having enough food.
Prabhupāda: So food problem can be solved simply by accepting.... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). How everyone can.... Find out.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "All living bodies subsist on food grains which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by the performance of sacrifice, and sacrifice is born of prescribed duties."
Prabhupāda: So if you produce enough food grains, both the man and the animal will live very peacefully. Food grains. And I've seen in your country, in America, in Africa, in Australia, so much vacant land without producing food grains. So men are not engaged to produce food grains, but they are brought in Detroit to manufacture of wheels of motorcar.
Kern: For ambulances to bring the sick to the doctor.
Prabhupāda: So we have to correct this. First of all, produce food.
Scheverman: So if I understand you correctly, you are saying utilize intelligence to correct the problem. Produce more food rather than worry about the fact.... So that the poor can have to eat and the animals can have. So your approach, then, is not one of direct assistance to the person who is starving or suffering, but rather indirect, utilizing intelligence to produce food.