Prabhupāda: No, we must first of all understand that our senses are imperfect. Just like we are sitting in this room. We have got our eyes, but we cannot see what is there, going on, beyond this wall. The sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, and we are seeing just like a disc. So the eyelid is just near the eyes, but we cannot see what is the eyelids. If the light is off, we cannot see. So we can see under certain condition. Then what is the value of our seeing? If we, even if we manufacture telescope, that is also manufactured by the imperfect senses, so it is also not perfect. So anything understood by manipulating our imperfect senses, that is not real knowledge. So our process of understanding real knowledge is to take it from the person who has the real knowledge. Just like if we contemplate or speculate who is my father, it is never possible to understand who is my father. But if we receive the words from mother that, "Here is your father," that is perfect. Therefore the process of knowledge should be not to speculate, but to receive it from the perfect person. If we receive knowledge from a mental speculator, that is not perfect knowledge.
Professor: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) What would be the mechanism or process to get this perfect knowledge and to purify our senses?
Prabhupāda: First of all we have to accept this truth, that perfect knowledge can be received from the perfect person. Just like I have given the example, who is my father. You can understand it from the perfect person, mother. If somebody speculates, "This gentleman may be your father, this gentleman may be your father," that is not perfect knowledge. The perfect knowledge is with the mother. Mother says, "Here is your father." That is perfect knowledge. Just like, therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tad viddhi praṇipātena . . . (aside) Find out.
- . . .paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ
- jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
Hṛdayānanda: (reads translation in Spanish)
Prabhupāda: Now, what is the meaning of tattva-darśinaḥ? (Hṛdayānanda explains in Spanish) What is that in English?
Hṛdayānanda: "The seers of the truth."
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to . . . just like mother has seen the father. So her knowledge is perfect. I have not seen my father. Because before my birth there was father, I do not know who is my father. The mother has seen the father. So you have to approach such a person who has seen the truth. That is the way of . . . now you have to find out a person who has seen the transcendence and receive knowledge of transcendence from him. Then it is perfect.
Professor: (Spanish) What I mean is that, you know, we are all imperfect because we are imperfect. Right? So how can a master, a person who really understands or who claims to really understand, be able to know perfection, to see the truth. How can he with his imperfect senses. . .
Prabhupāda: You are right. You are right.
Professor: . . . know the real truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore I say . . .
Professor: How can I get with my imperfect senses the perfection brought by the master?
Prabhupāda: The same example. Just like the mother has seen the father, and the mother says not only to her son but other gentleman that, "Here is the father of the son." So the other gentleman who has not seen the father, but on the verification by the mother, he accepts the real thing. Hearing from the perfect is also perfect. If I get the chance of hearing from the perfect, then I may not be perfect, but because I have heard from the perfect, what I say, that is perfect.
Professor: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) He's saying that he accepts that we can receive perfect knowledge, but then because I am imperfect I make an imperfect interpretation.
Prabhupāda: No, you are not allowed interpretation. As soon as you interpret, you become imperfect. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't interpret. Before this, all these rascals were simply interpreting and spoiling the whole thing. So this is the fact.
Professor: So what you really are asking for is blind faith.
Prabhupāda: Not blind faith. Perfect man is perfect. Unless you understand that he is perfect, don't hear from him. That is blind. Without knowing that he is perfect, if you hear, that is your imperfectness. Why should you try to hear from a person whom you do not know perfectly well that he is perfect?
Hṛdayānanda: Can I translate that? (Spanish)
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you hear blindly, that is your imperfectness. You must be first of all convinced that, "The person from whom I am hearing, he is perfect." Then your knowledge is perfect.
Professor: That conviction is not the product of reasoning.
Prabhupāda: It is not convention. It is not convention. It is actually knowing that, "I have approached this perfect man." Just like the same example: if you approach the mother of the son, she is the perfect to know the father. And if you have known from the father and mother that, "This boy's father is this gentleman," that knowledge is perfect. Even though you have not seen while the father was begotten, giving birth, it doesn't matter. But because you have heard from the mother—she is perfect—therefore your knowledge received from her is perfect. Therefore it is written, tattva-darśibhiḥ, "who has seen the truth." So you have to approach such person who has seen the truth.