Guest (3): Well, I agree with you there.
Prabhupāda: So that is the point.
Guest (3): But I have a different thought and feeling.
Prabhupāda: You may have, but we are talking on the principle that if we are so base and fallen down that we go on committing sinful life and "Christ will be crucified; I'll be saved," that way is said, what kind of religion? "One should continually suffer for my sin, and I am free to act sinfully." Is that religion?
Guest (3): Well, we don't believe that Christ continues to suffer.
Prabhupāda: No, but the Christians do that. They are maintaining.... Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and they are maintaining thousands of killing house, and still they are passing on as Christian.
Guest (3): Well, they're wrong.
Prabhupāda: That is the point.
Guest (3): I agree with you.
Prabhupāda: So you should tell them.
Guest (3): Well, we are. That's what we're here for.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that "You are not Christian. Don't call yourself as Christian. You are persistently disobeying, beginning..." Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and the Christians began killing Christ, crucifying Christ. And that is going on still, in large scale, and they are still Christian. The Pope is eating meat and.... I do not wish to say so many things. These are going on, and still, they are Christians. What can I say?
Guest (3): Do you believe that...
Prabhupāda: It is not a question of believe or not believe. We are talking of fact.
Guest (3): Well, okay. Would, say, the cutting down of a plant, vegetable.... You are killing the growth there. Is that a living matter?
Prabhupāda: Killing means that you have to eat something. Our philosophy is that we cannot stop killing, but there is no unnecessary killing.
Guest (3): We agree. We only kill for what we need.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you.... Just like in.... Just a minute before, I ate so many nice fruits. So these fruits are meant for human being. Why shall I eat meat?
Guru-kṛpā: The same grain.
Devotee (4): It was Mormon scripture that said also, I read it, God is speaking, and He requests not to eat meat except in times of famine and starvation.
Guest (4): That's right.
Devotee (4): But the Mormons don't do that. They still eat meat.
Guru-kṛpā: You're feeding the cow, the beef, grains which you could eat.
Devotee (4): What does the cow eat? Grains.
Guru-kṛpā: You are feeding the beef grains to fatten it for slaughter, but you could eat the same grains and be healthy.
Guest (2): That's true. And we have many people who are in the church who strive to teach people of the church to eat more grains and milk products and...
Guru-kṛpā: That is not the point Śrīla Prabhupāda is making.
Prabhupāda: No, point is that every living being has to eat another living being. That is the law of nature.