Śrutakīrti: Punar janma na vidyate. "From the highest planet in the material world to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again."
Prabhupāda: Just see. So going to the higher planetary system means to achieve higher standard of life, but that does not mean solution of material problems. Just like Western countries, they are supposed to be living in higher standard of life than Eastern countries, but that does not mean they have conquered over death. That's not possible. They might possess a nice motor car, but the Eastern man may not possess. He has a bullock cart. This much advancement may be there. But the death, birth, death, is the same, in the Eastern and the Western.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Why should we think that birth and death is so painful, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because wherever we are, we can think about Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: But you feel pain, or do you like to die?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Well, some people like to travel.
Prabhupāda: Why it is painful. That is painful. You, even if you think, shudder, that "I have to die immediately," you'll shudder immediately. It is very painful. It is very painful because as soon as you die, you are again packed up within the womb of the mother to develop another body. And that is also not certain. Nowadays the father, mother is killing the child. So even if you develop a body to come with the expectation to come out, the father, mother kills you, again you have to enter another mother's body. Again you may be killed. This is the position of the sinful man. Because a man is sinful, he shudders. "Oh, again death is coming." So you, you cannot argue... Death is very painful. It is so painful that at the last stage, because the pain is not tolerated, the soul immediately gives up the body. Just like a man commits suicide. It is very painful. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha (BG 13.9). It is painful. Duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. Anudarśanam means if he's a foolish, if he cannot understand, then he should understand described by higher authorities. It is painful. So unless you make a solution that no more birth, there is no question of getting out of the painful condition of material condition. That's not possible.
Anna Conan Doyle: But what if you are reincarnated into other planets?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is easy.
Anna Conan Doyle: Is it less painful, or is it the same procedure of...?
Prabhupāda: As soon as you enter into the womb of a mother, it is painful. You are packed up like this, in this way. Can you, can you live for a few minutes, packed up like that, At the present moment, if I pack up and put in a bag, and then put in a box, how long you can exist?
Anna Conan Doyle: But we are not conscious at, at that particular moment.
Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. Just like surgical operation is going on. He's unconscious. That is another thing. By some method, he's unconscious. But the pain is there. The pain is there. The pain is not felt. Just like animals. They, they are in painful condition, but because they are animal, they do not feel it. On the horseback, you are driving horseback, like this, like this. It is painful, but because he's animal he cannot protect himself. It is very painful. Suppose if a chain is shackled on your mouth, and I constantly push like this...? Is it not painful? The horse is controlled by the mouth...
Anna Conan Doyle: Yes, by the foot...
Prabhupāda: By the chain, yes. Horse is very powerful animal than the man. How the man can control the horse? But he knows the trick, that it has to be controlled in the mouth. As soon as there is pain in the mouth, he becomes puzzled. He has to abide by the order. The man knows the tricks. Horse is not controlled by the tai... (break) ...he's controlled.
Bhagavān: Really?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: So every animal can be controlled...
Prabhupāda: Therefore there was a meeting of all animals that how to get out of the control of man. (laughter) The elephant said: "My dear sir, I am so powerful. I am also controlled by that. So it is useless to hold meeting." "I am also controlled by man." The meeting was organized by an ass. (laughter) He thought that: "I have to work so hard. Let us have a conference of animals to avoid man's control." But he saw that elephant also said that "I am so powerful. Still I am also controlled by the man. So it is useless."
Anna Conan Doyle: But many human beings get into the same conditions.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, our position is like that, like ass. We are also trying to get out of the control of material nature. Like an ass. But it is not possible. The conference is failure. Here, in the material world, even a so powerful being as Brahmā, he's also controlled. By God. He's also controlled. You have seen that picture? Brahmā is bowing down before Kṛṣṇa.