Jyotirmayī: He is asking if it is possible for young Christians... Because each time he has been coming he has been bringing with him people, you know, Christian who have been chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, with him. So he is asking if it is possible for them to chant the name God, that in fact is not really a name, by the name Kṛṣṇa, because according to what you are explaining, God is Kṛṣṇa. So can they chant the name of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇa is God. God is the idea of greatness. That is Brahman. Or you can say also person, but not the particular person. God means, the Sanskrit word is īśvara, the controller. So everyone is controller to some extent. In his own atmosphere he is a controller, as I am controller of my disciples. So the conception of God is there, but I am not the Supreme God. Therefore, there are two words. We use the word "Godhead," "the Supreme God." That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, īśvara, God. Everyone is God; that is another thing. But īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, the Supreme God, is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Supreme. We have got experience of īśvara. Just like I said, everyone is īśvara, everyone is a controller. So I am personal, I am also īśvara of my body. I am controlling my body. So in that way, everyone is īśvara. But these īśvaras, they are controlled by another īśvara. We are īśvara, but I am controlled by another īśvara. But īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1), He is īśvara but He is not controlled by anyone. That is paramaḥ, supreme. From the dictionary meaning also we can under..., being and Supreme Being. We are being, but we are controlled by another being, he is controlled by another being, he is controlled by another being. In this way, you go. If you find out some being who is not controlled by anyone, he is Supreme Being. This is the idea.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more controller beyond Me." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti. Nobody. This final controller. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). And in Brahma-samhita, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means form, body. Govinda ādi-puruṣam, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), the cause of all causes. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat.
- mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
- kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
- mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ
- sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
- (BG 7.7)
"O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread."
Prabhupāda: So "Nobody is superior to Me," there is nobody controller. Kṛṣṇa is not controlled by anyone. Therefore, He is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That is final God. Otherwise God... You will find, you are more powerful than me, he is more powerful than you, and somebody is more powerful than him, go on, go on, seeing, seeing. But when you come to Kṛṣṇa, nobody is more powerful than Him. Mattaḥ parataram. Parataram means better or higher principle, no.
Prabhupāda: Then it is confirmed by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam (BG 10.12). "You are person"—puruṣam means person—śāśvatam, "eternally." Then he says that "It is not that You have said. I see from Your instruction, and it is confirmed by Vyāsadeva, by Devala, by Nārada." Then it is final.
Prabhupāda: The Vedas say, therefore, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to understand that science, you have to approach the guru. Vyāsadeva is the original guru. He is instructor of Vedic knowledge. Then from Vyāsadeva, ācāryas. So this is the instruction of the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārtham: in order to experience that transcendental thing, you have to approach to the authorities, gurum eva abhigacchet. And who is guru? Śrotriyam, one who has heard from his guru, authorized person, śrotriyam, brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), and firmly convinced in the science of God.
(Prabhupāda tells someone to open window)
Bhagavān: How does one get the experience of personal existence of God?
Prabhupāda: That is already explained. Why did you hear? We are explaining this same subject, you did not hear?
Bhagavān: Oh, yes, I was just asking.
Prabhupāda: You are asking me or asking him?
Bhagavān: No, for his benefit. You were talking experience.
Bhagavān: So we want to understand how to experience that Supreme Person.
Priest: No. I went through that experience, and I would like... May I say something upon what he said? When you say is it possible for a young Christian to also follow the Hare Kṛṣṇa, I said I would like much more to do so. (Has brief conversation in French with Mr. Chenique)
Jyotirmayī: He is explaining that what he would like, that all these young Christian that he knows, it's not that he wants them to stop Christianity but to take in Kṛṣṇa consciousness what is missing in Christianity to help them in their own development.
Prabhupāda: Nothing is missing. Only, if I be frank enough, they are not following Christianity.
Jyotirmayī: (French) They said that then if Christianity is complete, then what is the need of coming here? What is missing there that we would find here?
Prabhupāda: To tell you that you are not following. (laughter)
Priest: But then there is no need to dress as you dress.
Priest: Why do you dress in that way which is an Indian way and not the European way?
Prabhupāda: Then why Christian go there?
Priest: They should not.
Prabhupāda: Then we should not.
Priest: Not because they do something wrong that somebody else has to do something wrong.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Thing is that just like there are scholars, the scholars also go. Just like you are doing in India. Why did you go to India? Why did you go to India and live there and (indistinct)? Anyone can come to study, to learn how to teach. That is human society. You cannot say that "You don't come here." You cannot say.
Priest: I know, but for a European to dress as an Indian...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Europeans go to India, and why the Indians should not come to Europe?
Prabhupāda: Then you cannot say that "Why you have come here?" You cannot say.
Jyotirmayī: No, no. He's saying why are we dressing like that, like Indians?
Prabhupāda: I have not said that you dress like that. You like, you do it. Did I say that you do it?
Priest: It's like the Indian Catholic priest dressing like a (indistinct) priest or like a European priest. I mean, they look as if they had a disguise with them.
Prabhupāda: No, no, just like when the English were ruling, English national. So the Englishmen never said that "You dress like Englishmen," but they automatically dressed. You know very well. They do like that. The Englishmen, they went there to get some money by trade, by politics. But they never went there to change their dress. But they thought that "If I dress myself like Englishman, I will be more honored." That is their point. Similarly, we never preach that "You dress like this." But the student, they like this dress. That's all right. What is the wrong there?
Priest: It's not wrong. It's funny.
Prabhupāda: Rather these girls, when they dress in Indian way, they look more beautiful. That you will have to admit. Yes. The same girl will dress in your...
Prabhupāda: So the girls, the women, they like to be more beautiful. So if by dressing in other way they look beautiful, why should you ask them not to do it?
Priest: Maybe for ladies and girls certainly, but for the dhotī and...
Prabhupāda: But we are not concerned with the dress, we are concerned with the advancement of spiritual understanding, that's all.
Yogeśvara: Jyotirmayī, is this the guest that was scheduled to come at seven o'clock?
Jyotirmayī: No, he's not here yet (indistinct).
Priest: Have you got any French literature of conception (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Bhagavān: French literature. He's asking for French literature.
Jyotirmayī: He translated the Tukārāma in French.
Prabhupāda: Tukārāma. Tukārāma is great Vaiṣṇava devotee of Maharastra. His movement was saṅkīrtana movement.
Devotee: He was the one who was initiated by Lord Caitanya?
Bhagavān: This was southern India?
Prabhupāda: Maharastra, yes. Southwest.
Priest: For the north it is south (indistinct).
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, another thing that's stated in the Bible, in the Christians' philosophy, they say that God created man out of His own image. It's stated in the Bible. So therefore man has a form, why not God? Because it's stated there in the Bible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think Bible is on the personal understanding of God. Christ says that he is son of God. Unless one is person, how he can beget a son?
Devotee: They talk about the trilogy—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It is compared like the Father...
Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman, yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11), it is the same idea. Brahman, Holy Ghost, is impersonal, but Son is person and God is also person. I do not know much about, but I have heard from Christians that there is assembly of God, and Lord Christ has got a seat by the side of God. Is not that explained?
Devotee: It's on His right hand.
Devotee: On his right side he's supposed to be seated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These are all personal ideas.
Devotee: And they say also, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name."
Prabhupāda: "Hallowed be Thy name."
Devotee: "Hallowed be Thy name."
Devotee: "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Devotee: They're praising the name of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, we have got very regard, good regard, for Christianity. We take it as Vaisnavism. It is explained according to country, time. And the commandments are very nice. The first commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but that is not stopped in the Christian world. Therefore we say that the Christians are not following. Christianity is all right. Those who are professing Christianity, they are not following.