Guest (5): How to identify a true learned man?
Prabhupāda: That you have to become a learned man. If you are a fool, how you can understand who is learned man? You have to become a learned man. Is it not? Otherwise you will be cheated. Anyone will come—"I am learned man. I am God"—and you will be cheated, if you do not know what is God, what is learned man. So first of all you have to become learned man. Then you will understand who is learned man.
Guest (2): But to become learned, you go to so-called learned people, and you go to so-called learned people. How do you know that those so-called learned are...
Prabhupāda: That has spoiled our Indian culture. That has spoiled our Indian culture. Everyone become learned man; everyone become a spiritualist. That's another... So best thing is to... Why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa as the most learned man? That will save you. Everyone accepts Him, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Lord Caitanya. So why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa? Why you're searching after learned man? Here is the best learned man. Simple truth. If you simply argue, that is a different thing. But if you want really learned man, Kṛṣṇa is here. Take Kṛṣṇa as He is; then you learn everything. So I shall go now. What is the time?
Satsvarūpa: It's eight-thirty now.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...fruits... Just accept Kṛṣṇa, the most learned man. Follow His teaching. Your life is perfect. And practically you see. They have accepted Kṛṣṇa the supreme teacher, and how their life is becoming perfect. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. Unless one is very, very intelligent he cannot come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. As Kṛṣṇa is very cunning, intelligent, so His devotee is also very cunning and intelligent. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. Kṛṣṇa also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births' struggling, when he actually becomes wise, jñānavān," māṁ prapadyate, "he surrenders to Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: (BG 7.19) "That mahātmā is very rare to be found." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā. This is description of mahātmā.
Guest (2): Why... When you said ananya, is there a conflict between a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa when he chants Lord Rāma's name...?
Prabhupāda: Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Kṛṣṇa means Viṣṇu-tattva. So Viṣṇu-tattva has many forms. So any Viṣṇu form will do.
- rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan
- nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
- kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.39)
Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. He has got different forms, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many other forms, Govinda, Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. So rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayam (Bs. 5.39). Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). These are the Vedic statements. And Kṛṣṇa also said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore to become wise after many, many births of struggling or cultivating knowledge, when one comes to perfection of knowledge he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So therefore one who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is the most perfect man, even without knowing Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs. They did not know Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God or some... Simply loved Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful." That's all. So their perfection is the highest. They did not try to understand what Kṛṣṇa, what is Vedānta, what is Bhagavad-gītā. At that time Bhagavad-gītā was not spoken even. Kṛṣṇa was at that time a boy. But they loved Kṛṣṇa with their heart and soul. Kṛṣṇa was their everything. And therefore their position is the topmost. So somehow or other, we have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful. Otherwise not. So we do it knowingly or unknowingly; the effect is the same. Fire you touch knowingly or unknowingly; it will act. It is not that if a child touches fire without knowing, knowledge, it is not that fire will not burn. And similarly... That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Kāmāt krodhād bhayāt. Some way or other, come to Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs came to Kṛṣṇa-kāmāt. Kṛṣṇa was very beautiful, so they wanted to associate with Kṛṣṇa. Bhayāt, Kaṁsa and Śiśupāla, they were afraid of Kṛṣṇa, but still, they became Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Bhayāt. Krodhāt. Śiśupāla, krodhāt. He was very much envious of Kṛṣṇa. Pūtanā-rākṣasī, she wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa. So if kamāt-krodhād-bhayāt coming to Kṛṣṇa, they get perfection, what to speak of loving Kṛṣṇa? What is their position? So some way or other, you come to Kṛṣṇa. That is our mission. Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇa niveśayet. Somehow or other, just attach your mind to Kṛṣṇa; your life is perfect. And what is the objection? Kṛṣṇa is most beautiful, Kṛṣṇa is most opulent, Kṛṣṇa is more powerful, Kṛṣṇa giving you assurance, "I give you protection," and still, if you don't take to Kṛṣṇa it is misfortune, simply misfortune. Unfortunate. So you remain. If you want to remain unfortunate, who can help you? So instead of arguing, you just surrender to Kṛṣṇa and make your life successful. That's it. That is wanted. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma... Now, these foreigners, they are practiced, always chanting Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do that? Why? Let me know why. You are all young boys; they are also young. They have got more facilities for sense enjoyment than yours. Why don't you take to it? So it is better late than never. Take to it. Take interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You are all Indians. Make your life successful. Help others and be helped. (aside:) What is this? (Hindi—discussing prasāda to be served) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Tūrṇaṁ yateta. (Hindi) Life is very short. Any moment it can be finished. Tūrṇaṁ yateta na pated anu-mṛtyu yāvat. Before the next death comes... You give me in a plate. Where is restroom?