Indian man (3): And now you will remain here in India for some time?
Prabhupāda: That I do not know. I, actually, now it is little troublesome for me to travel all the year.
Indian man (3): You are just gone from (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Rest, if I rest then there may be... Because I am dealing with all neophytes. If I don't keep them alive by personal presence... Still they are doing nice. I have appointed twenty secretaries all over the world. I am training them. They are managing. Managing nicely. I have been in New York and Los Angeles and Hawaii, all big, big centers. London, Paris.
Indian man (3): Oh, it's a very great. Your program for Kurukṣetra and etc. and the...
Prabhupāda: Program was that they promised to give me land.
Indian man (3): Who?
Prabhupāda: That chief minister.
Indian man (3): Have they done so?
Prabhupāda: Not yet.
Indian man (3): I had about 2 acres was available, except that. (talks about land he owns-indistinct)
Prabhupāda: We are trying for another big scheme in Bengal. We have applied to the government to acquire land, 350 acres, a big planetarium. Planetarium. We have described the planetarium in our Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In that planetarium it is said that the moon is above the sun planet. By one million six hundred thousand miles.
Indian man (3): What does astronomy say? The modern astronomy.
Prabhupāda: They say the moon planet is nearer to earth planet and they have gone there.
Indian man (3): No, no, have you given up the idea of Kurukṣetra?
Prabhupāda: No, no, not...
Indian man (3): No, because if you have the idea, the land is the least part of it because so much is to be done, if the idea is that something should be done. I learned that gentleman, Mr. (indistinct) ...and he has said that he will do something. I was not there at the time of the (talks about himself—very low, hard to hear)
Prabhupāda: You bring one little plate prasādam from there, from that...
Indian man (3): You will be in Vṛndāvana for some...
Prabhupāda: Three weeks.
Indian man (3): After that you don't know. After that where you go, you don't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): Well, this is God's work, Lord Kṛṣṇa's work. I am trying (indistinct) to cooperate with you because nobody can do.
Prabhupāda: No, you have done tremendous work.
Indian man (3): No, but which is very little considering the situation, the condition, problem (in the) country. I am at a lower level than your level than your work (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: The one encouraging thing in this movement is that our books are being very much appreciated. In all universities, foreign and Indian, libraries, professors, learned scholars.
Indian man (3): Yes, they'll branch out and... It's a great service.
Prabhupāda: We are selling books to the extent of sixty thousand dollars daily. That is our only hope, that we shall not be financially in difficulty. People are taking our books very nicely. People are accepting our literature.
Indian man (3): It is not that difficulties were not there (indistinct). I don't have the support, but I feel (indistinct) find that several places the demand for this for the acceptance of (indistinct) also not in the manner in which I had wanted. (indistinct) ...lakhs of people stand against (indistinct) religion and moral side. There should be a linking up of all those who want religion to remain and morality to also be there. Those forces have to be met by also organized force from the right kind of people (goes on giving his own opinions-indistinct) ...I hope you are not coming in your way.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Indian man (3): I remember that you had written yourself that there is something we can do together. Possibly this question, building and all that. (indistinct) It is good to have that building and that land, but even before that there is work to be done at the Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: My point is that Kurukṣetra is the place where Bhagavad-gītā was spoken. So if we take the words of Bhagavad-gita as it is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, then people will be benefitted. But if we do not take the words of Bhagavad-gītā, then moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12). That I believe. Find out this verse. Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo.
Indian man (3): That's true. I also believe that there must be a direct...
Prabhupāda: No, why not direct?
Indian man (3): Putting in your interpretation, that is wrong. It should be direct. That doesn't mean only those people who have accepted this can come together.
Prabhupāda: And why the others will not accept?
Indian man (3): No, we have made, you must have seen our literature, Gītā as a text, but still people may not judge...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we should not depend on the people's acceptance only. We have to present Gītā as it is. Now everything is not accepted by everyone. Even if you make change, there is no guarantee that they will...
Indian man (3): No, no.
Prabhupāda: No, no I am not speaking to you. Anyone.
Indian man (3): I am not trying to make a show. I believe a direct interpretation is important thing more than the other kinds of ideas and conceptions.
Pradyumna:
- moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo
- mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ
- rākṣasīm āsurīṁ caiva
- prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śrītāḥ
- (BG 9.12)
"Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demoniac and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated."
Prabhupāda: Go on, go on. I have given any purport?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are many devotees who assume themselves to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service but at heart do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as the Absolute Truth. For them, the fruit of devotional service-going back to Godhead—will never be tasted. Similarly, those who are engaged in fruitive, pious activities and who are ultimately hoping to be liberated from this material entanglement will never be successful either because they deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same. With such a false conviction, they think that the body of any human being is now simply covered by material nature and that as soon as one is liberated from this material body there is no difference between God and himself. This attempt to become one with Kṛṣṇa will be baffled because of delusion. Such atheistic and demoniac cultivation of spiritual knowledge is always futile. That is the indication of this verse. For such persons, cultivation of the knowledge in the Vedic literature, like the Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads, is always baffled.
It is a great offense, therefore, to consider Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to be an ordinary man. Those who do so are certainly deluded because they cannot understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa. In the Bṛhad-vaiṣṇava mantra it is clearly stated that one who considers the body of Kṛṣṇa to be material should be driven out from all rituals and activities of the śruti. And if one by chance sees his face, he should at once take bath in the Ganges to rid himself of infection. People jeer at Kṛṣṇa because they are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their destiny is certainly to take birth after birth in the species of atheistic and demoniac life. Perpetually, their real knowledge will remain under delusion, and gradually they will regress to the darkest region of creation.
Indian man (3): I was reading this yesterday, the Eleventh Chapter. There are twelve, twelve chapters. There Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān had a dialogue with Uddhava.
Pradyumna: He's referring to Ekādaśa-skandha of the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Uddhava.
Indian man (3): And there I felt, I thought that whenever we meet I'll bring up this question with you. 'Cause the way in which it has been translated in Hindi which I read it does create a little question as to what Bhagavān Himself said about the status of the soul, the individual soul, and relationship, (indistinct). Because although I think I should have got it, they don't give it to the life members.
Pradyumna: Yes, Bhāgavatam, we're up to the Seventh Canto now in the printing. Yes, the canto has come out. So Saptama-skandha, pādyokta. We're up to that.
Indian man (3): Now, well then if it is, if the member is (indistinct). Now in the Eleventh there is...
Prabhupāda: Eleventh Canto, yes. When you will remember the verse?
Indian man (3): No, no, number (indistinct) again and again I had gone to (indistinct) and as to that, ultimately there is no difference. As soon as this (indistinct) when it comes. I would like this because I belong to the sect of our country, middle sect, from Swami Narayana. He's based on Rāmānujācārya philosophy which says that all the souls are there, they are the body of the creator Bhagavān. Just as the human ātmā has a body, this means there is the difference also identity. Identity is one and yet they have their own place. That have been the faith (indistinct). Now in many places this sometimes this differentiation remains, sometimes there is things said which wipe it out. I thought you would be the best person to give a guidance...
Prabhupāda: As you say that, Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gita, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). We living entities, we are part and parcel of God. Aṁśa. So any common man can understand.... (end)