Buddhist Monk (1): What happens when similar statements are made by other people that we have, they have their own god, who is, they made a unique system, and someone else says, "No, we have our own unique system." Someone else says, "No, all those three systems we do not agree with. We have got our unique system." What's going to happen in that thing?
Prabhupāda: That will... Phalena paricīyate. The system which is accepted more, that is successful. You can present so many system, but the test will be which system is more accepted by the people, by the mass, general people. That is successful. Phalena paricīyate. And if somebody says that "I have got my own god," and some other says, "I have got my own god," but this is a fact: God is one. You may call by different names. That is different thing. But God cannot be manufactured, that "You manufacture your god, I manufacture my god, he manufactures his god." That is not God.
Buddhist Monk (1): That's exactly what is happening.
Prabhupāda: That, happening, that is another thing. We are talking of the principle. God is one. God cannot be two. Then there is no meaning of God. Now, if I present Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if you disagree, then you'll have to present your god. Now, we have to consider who is actually God. Just like I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. So I asked him that "Where is the difference between your communist philosophy and our philosophy? The communist philosophy, they have created their own god, Lenin." Lenin is their God. We have seen in Moscow.
Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, I've been...
Prabhupāda: Every street, every a...
Buddhist Monk (1): Every street. I know, all over.
Prabhupāda: Lenin, Lenin's picture, Lenin's book.
Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's right.
Prabhupāda: So I told him that "You have created your own god, Lenin. And we have got our own God, Kṛṣṇa. Now, the principle of accepting somebody as God is there, in your philosophy and in my philosophy. So that you cannot avoid. Your communistic philosophy cannot avoid the conception of God, the leader." Just like in Buddha philosophy also, there is the conception of God, of Lord Buddha.
Buddhist Monk (1): No. That's not correct. Because we do not treat the Buddha... In fact, when the Buddha preached his atheistic philosophy... That's why he was termed a nāstika, a wasala. We do not believe in a god. We say panya, wisdom, and dharmuddha, is an incompatible...
Prabhupāda: At least, you follow the leadership of Buddha.
Buddhist Monk (1): Leadership, that's correct.
Prabhupāda: So that is, I am pointing out. Leadership,... God means "the leader." According to Vedic injunction, God means "the supreme leader." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief living entity. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). God means the Supreme Leader. So leader you have to accept. That is the conception of God. Either you select Buddha or Lenin or somebody else, you have to accept one leader and follow. That is your business. So our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He's the Supreme Leader. And we are to obey His orders. This is our philosophy. So if you do not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, if you obey the orders of Lord Buddha, or somebody obeys the orders of Lenin, the principle is there that you have to follow the orders of somebody. Now, you select Lenin, Kṛṣṇa or Buddha or Gandhi or anyone. That is a different thing. But the principle—to accept one leader and follow his leadership—is there everywhere. That nobody can change. That is not possible. So the professor could not give me any satisfactory answer, you see. The leadership you have to accept. You cannot do anything independently. You have to accept. That is our constitutional position, that we have to follow somebody. Now you select whom you shall follow. If you are following the most perfect, then you become perfect. And if you are following less perfect or imperfect, then you are imperfect. This is our philosophy. You have to follow some leader. If your leader is perfect, then you are perfect. If your leader is not perfect, then you are also not perfect.
Buddhist Monk (1): How is one to find out...?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah, that's a very important advantage, you know.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that is another thing. Our philosophy is: God is the most perfect. Otherwise He cannot be God. So you follow God; then you become perfect. So Kṛṣṇa is teaching personally. We accept Kṛṣṇa as God. And if we follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then we become perfect. Where is the difficulty? Simple thing.
Buddhist Monk (1): What we say is...
Prabhupāda: If you think that Kṛṣṇa's not perfect, somebody is perfect, then you follow him.
Buddhist Monk (1): What we believe is that incomparable bliss and peace everlasting is the most perfect.
Prabhupāda: That is... These are items. These are items. First of all you have to follow a perfect leader. Then whatever he says, that is perfect. So that peace, you have given a definition of peace. Kṛṣṇa is giving definition of peace:
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
"I am the proprietor of all the lokas," sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. "I am the friend of everyone." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām. "And I am the enjoyer of all fruitive activities." Jñātvā mām. "When one knows Me like that, he gets śānti." This is the śānti formula given by Kṛṣṇa. One has to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Enjoyer. Because He's the proprietor of everything; therefore He should be enjoyer. And because everything belongs to Him—we also belong to Him—so suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, He's friend of everyone. So these three things, if you understand-Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme enjoyer. He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend of everyone—then you get śānti. If we understand these three things only, then there is śānti. Otherwise there is no possibility of śānti. Now, how it is fact, that is a subject matter of discussion. Say, Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), "I am the proprietor of all the lokas." And now you study this fact. Who is the proprietor? We are claiming proprietor, nation. Englishmen, they are claiming, "This land belongs to the English people." Others claiming this land belongs to the American, Indian, like that. But are they actually the proprietor? Take for example the American land. Two hundred years ago, or, say...? How many years ago they won it?
Haṁsadūta: Four hundred.