Paramahaṁsa: I have a question about evolution. Our position is that all the species have been established by Kṛṣṇa, even before creation. But yet, in the creation, it comes about through an evolutionary process?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: So the fact that evolution is existing, it's a fact. But it does not exist independent of the fact that Kṛṣṇa created it and He established it. It's not something that developed independently.
Prabhupāda: What is that? I do not follow.
Bhagavān: When Brahmā creates the different species, they're not created one at a time. They're... All over the universe, there's different species which he creates?
Prabhupāda: Brahmā is created first. So he does not belong to the species. Immediately, he's a demigod. So where is the question of evolution?
Bhagavān: Yeah. So you understand? Brahmā is created first. So it's not that we started from one-celled animals and worked up to Brahmā.
Satsvarūpa: But on a particular planet is it like that?
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Satsvarūpa: Are, are there sophisticated...
Prabhupāda: In the material world.
Satsvarūpa: The human beings are there from the very beginning on the earth too?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. They're... Beings are already there, everywhere.
Satsvarūpa: But you said it was all submerged in water.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But he's there. Suppose if you live within the water, does it mean that you are not existing?
Satsvarūpa: No, but generally, human beings...
Bhagavān: Human species.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhagavān: Does the human species come with the gradual evolution or is the human species created first?
Prabhupāda: No, in the creation, according to your karma. As you stopped your activities in the last creation, it is, it is just like... It is called suptottitha-nyāya: "A man is sleeping, and when he's awakened, he immediately remembers, 'What I have to do.' " So the annihilation means all living entities sleeping, and as soon as there is creation again they begin from the point where they last lost their life. That's it. It is the same example. Just when you go to sleep, you have a standard of thinking, and as soon as you are awakened, the same standard of thinking again begins. From the point where you slept and when awakened, you again begin from that point. It is like that.
Satsvarūpa: So when Lord Brahmā created this planet, did he immediately put all the species here?
Prabhupāda: No, why immediately? It doesn't matter, immediately. But the living entities come to their new formation of life in that way.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in your spiritual master's commentary on Brahma-saṁhitā, he states that within the core of the heart there is some desire and that according to that desire, one takes a body in the next creation.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So within the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu... Of course, material nature is not covering the con..., the sleeping souls, is it?
Prabhupāda: Why you bring Vi...? You are talking of living entities. Why do you bring Viṣṇu?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So the point then is that means one can have a conditioned desire or a material desire even without being in the material world.
Prabhupāda: He is already... That I have already explained. Suptottitha-nyāya. In the morning, as soon as you get up, you remember that you have to do so many things. That means it was already there.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Right. Is that just like the impersonalists? They go up into the brahma-jyotir, but they have desire. So they have to come back down.
Prabhupāda: No, this is not going to the brahma-jyotir. Those who..., brahma-jyotir, they do not come in that way. They come in their own frustration.
Paramahaṁsa: So Śrīla Prabhupāda, the living entities, when they come out of the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu, they, they...
Prabhupāda: In Mahā-Viṣṇu's body they simply rest during the annihilation. That's all.
Yogeśvara: But then during the creation, the scientists say, in the beginning, there was no human life on this planet.
Prabhupāda: The scientists are rascals. What they know? There was no human being? Why not human being? The Brahmā is human being. Then you reject the Vedic conclusion. You take this rascal scientist's conclusion.
Yogeśvara: No, of course not.
Prabhupāda: Then how you can say?
Yogeśvara: But where were those spirit souls who were going to take the form of a human being before the human species became manifested?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In the body of Viṣṇu.
Bhagavān: That's just on this planet. But on other planets there's human species.
Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?
Bhagavān: No. His argument is that scientists say that at the beginning there may have been only lesser developed forms of life.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say that.
Bhagavān: Was there always humans on this planet?
Prabhupāda: We say the highest developed, Brahmā. He's a sub-creator. He's not a lesser intelligent. He's as good as God.
Yogeśvara: But on this planet, let us say, for example...
Prabhupāda: On this planet, any planet. That is the system.
Satsvarūpa: This planet, from the very beginning, there were human beings.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: On this planet, from the very beginn...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmā is there. The Brahmā created so many sons. The Kumāras came out. The Rudra came out. He gradually created.
Nitāi: So actually, the creation goes just the other way.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Nitāi: First of all, Brahmā, the greatest living being, and then...
Prabhupāda: No. Creation is simultaneously. The Brahmā then created ants and birds and beasts and everything. It is all simultaneous. Something is attached with my cloth, hmm?
Paramahaṁsa: These scientists are very great rascals. We should defeat them and save the people from...
Prabhupāda: There is something.
Nitāi: In your shoe?
Prabhupāda: No, in the cloth.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Oh yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Actually, you're the only one who has the courage to do that today.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Paramahaṁsa: You're the only one that has the courage to defeat these rascals. Everyone else is surrendering to them.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because I know on the background there is Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So all your endeavors are perfect!
Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: (Getting into car) Openly, I become. And you are all rascals, demons, the scientists, big, big scientists, come. And they tolerate. (end)