Acyutānanda: The Bible.
Prajāpati: No, part. The Bible is part.
Acyutānanda: Only part, one part.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Acyutānanda: He says the Bible is not... The Bible is not the complete authority?
Prajāpati: No, it's the tradition of the church through the great founding fathers, the great theologians up until the present day.
Viṣṇujana: Sādhu, śāstra, guru.
Prabhupāda: No... Vāk...
Prajāpati: Yes, unfortunately no guru.
Prabhupāda: Church... Church is following Bible.
Prajāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So ultimately Bible becomes authority.
Prajāpati: In certain segments of Christianity, not all.
Acyutānanda: So what is their conclusion?
Pañcadraviḍa: Excuse me one minute before we go on. What is this in relation to, this discussion? I just walked in.
Prabhupāda: This... The subject matter is whether by theological arguments one can understand God.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, according to dictionary, theology, theo, the Latin word theo, it means, that means God. Theo means God. And as far as I know, theology means the science or the study of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: So by definition...
Prajāpati: Not precisely. The word theology comes from the word logos. Theologos. And logos, in this sense, means the word of God. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, the words of God, that means one must know what is God. Otherwise how he can know this is the word of God? What is the answer by the theologian?
Prajāpati: The word of God is that a man is known by his works, his fruits. If he is a godly man...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless you know what is God, how you can accept this is the word of God? Just like you say, "Prabhupāda says." You take it, accept it: "Oh, Prabhupāda said." But you know what is Prabhupāda.
Prajāpati: So in...
Prabhupāda: It is not a fiction.
Prajāpati: In theological circles, yes, they are accepting great authorities like Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, as well as the śāstra, the Bible itself.
Acyutānanda: But Martin Luther and St. Augustine are opposed.
Prajāpati: Yes, there're many opposed in many different ways.
Acyutānanda: Then the authority is...
Prajāpati: So that's why the goal is not so much a...
Acyutānanda: Who invented theology?
Prajāpati: Saint Paul.
Acyutānanda: The first Saint Paul?
Prajāpati: First Saint Paul.
Acyutānanda: And he was before Martin Luther.
Prajāpati: Yes, he's before Martin Luther.
Pañcadraviḍa: In the... Also this word logos, in the Bible it says, "In the beginning there was the word." That's logos, right? In the beginning there was the word. So what word was that?
Prajāpati: In the beginning...?
Pañcadraviḍa: When it says, "In the beginning, there was the word."
Prajāpati: According to that same verse, that word was God.
Acyutānanda: And what was that?
Prabhupāda: But they... They must explain. Just like in Vedic literature the same idea is there. (aside:) Don't lean. I am begging excuse. I am old man. But you should sit down like that Guru Mahārāja. So we know what was the word, oṁkāra. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. (break) So oṁkāra is the word. So what is the Christian word?
Prajāpati: Again there's no absolute authority. In the vast Christian tradition we have Origen saying one thing and Saint Francis saying another. Widespread... That's why it is not a science that we can go to like we can to Śrīla Prabhupāda for an exact answer, Bhagavad-gītā, exact absolute authority. In the Christian tradition it is simply defined as faithful men understanding themselves in the light of the scripture, in the light of the tradition.
Prabhupāda: No, that is because you are our student. Suppose our preachers meet the theologicians. How to prove that theology is not the means? Theology... Generally, you say it is speculation. So our point is that nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. The ātmā, Kṛṣṇa, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments.
Prajāpati: The theologian would agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a question of what's called apologetics. Theology has a specific function for the Christian church, to bring people within the fold. Simply to convince them through any means, logical or whatever, to them to come within the church community, and then once they are within that group, then they can participate in what's called the Christian life. You have taking sacraments, engage in Christian fellowship, taking communion, so many things.