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What he's questioning, Prabhupada, is whether or not bhakti-yoga is suitable for everyone in every instance?

Expressions researched:
"What he's questioning, Prabhupada, is whether or not bhakti-yoga is suitable for everyone in every instance"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Yes, that is the only yoga meant for the human being. Any other yoga system practiced, they're against bhakti-yoga.
Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says the religions that come from India are infinitely richer than the religion we know in the West. And we cannot see only one aspect. He says there is so many faces in Indian religions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In... The idea of philosophy and religion, that is originated from India. There is no doubt about it. And that original idea of philosophy is practically demonstrated by Kṛṣṇa. The ideal original ideal of religion and philosophy is preached by Kṛṣṇa. And all the ācāryas followed that. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He said that is the distinction between the dogmatic aspect between the Hindu religions and the western religion.

Bhagavān: What is that? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the western or the Christian religion are marked by dogmatists and they are very...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pṛthu Putra: And they have imperialist conception.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yogeśvara: He says that western religions are narrow-minded, that they don't have the openness that the religions of the East have in India, for example. And that the West has this capitalist, imperialistic tendency which is also supported by its religion.

Prabhupāda: No. First... Therefore I asked what does he mean by religion. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says we can't say... His point is we can't say something. There is so many aspects of religion. There is the bhakti-yoga, by love and by heart. There is the karma-yoga, by action. There's jñāna-yoga, by knowledge. He says if in western countries, we propagate bhakti-yoga, we take the risk of using bhakti-yoga like a drug or something like this, if you are dreaming or something like that.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Bhakti-yoga by drugs?

Pṛthu Putra: He says, he made the statement...

Prabhupāda: That is...

Pṛthu Putra: ...according to the state of the French people, in right now, in this time.

Prabhupāda: But we do not prescribe drug. We ask them to give up drug. (laughter) (French)

Karandhara: What he's questioning, Prabhupāda, is whether or not bhakti-yoga is suitable for everyone in every instance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only yoga meant for the human being. Any other yoga system practiced, they're against bhakti-yoga. (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said that bhakti-yoga's an escape.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jyotirmayī: Bhakti-yoga brings to escaping one's responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Then he does not know what is bhakti-yoga. He does not know. (French) Arjuna did not escape. He was trying to escape, but, by bhakti-yoga, he was captured. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the Bhagavad-gītā is a...

Jyotirmayī: He says it's a work which is very, very practical and rational.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore that is real bhakti-yoga. (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said that Anu-gītā is also a very practical work.

Prabhupāda: No Anu-gītā. Anu-gītā is also another rebellious condition. Bhakti, Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is required. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that the great choice of scriptures from India allows us to choose like that. We can choose.

Prabhupāda: No, you can choose, but if you do not know how to choose, what is the meaning of your choosing? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says he choose Radhakrishnan, he choose all the seigneur...

Prabhupāda: But they, all of them...

Pṛthu Putra: He reject Aurobindo...

Prabhupāda: I understand. All of them, they make center Kṛṣṇa. So why not take Kṛṣṇa? (French) Now this Ramakrishna said, "I am the same Kṛṣṇa." So if we give respect to Ramakrishna because of his being the same Kṛṣṇa, why not go to the same Kṛṣṇa directly? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says it's not the full conclusion. And he says he says he can take another way and it excludes...

Prabhupāda: No, no. He...

Yogeśvara: Siddheshvarananda.

Pṛthu Putra: That's another... (French)

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot... If he was referring to Kṛṣṇa, if you are referring to Bhagavad-gītā, so why don't you take it originally? (French) (break) (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, he says this is the answer from Ramakrishna. When you have a thorn in your foot, you take another thorn and pluck it out, and afterwards, you throw them both away.

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā does not say. Bhagavad-gītā says that "You surrender unto Me, and sustain this." Therefore he has misled. He did not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and he misled so many fools. That is his business. One thing is, Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. And Ramakrishna says that "You can accept any path." So this is against Bhagavad-gītā. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, of the two choices, he likes Ramakrishna's better.

Prabhupāda: That is his choice. But if he says that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa," why should he differ? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says to accommodate, to accommodate them.

Prabhupāda: No accommodation. No. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and Ramakrishna says that "Whatever path you select, it is all right." So it is completely against Bhagavad-gītā principles. And, and he said... His name was Gadadhara Chatterjee. So at the time of his death, he declared to Vivekananda that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rāma." So they believed in that, without any evidence, and they started this Ramakrishna mission. This is the history. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that he recognizes that, and he says it is one interpretation, as you have your interpretation, as there are many. He doesn't think that these interpretations are as important as the art of knowing how to live, which is, he thinks, the essence of all religion, how to live. He says the interpretation is not so...

Prabhupāda: But he thinks Ramakrishna lived very well than others? (French)

Yogeśvara: I think one... If I've understood, he's insisting on one point. That is the that the public opinion is actually the most important thing, just as this Ramakrishna expressed the spirit of the Gītā in a way that was most popular, was most favorable to the public.

Prabhupāda: Who is that public? Amongst you, who accepts Ramakrishna.

Pṛthu Putra: He says as same as Gandhi. A different type, but at their time, at their own time...

Karandhara: Yeah, but Prabhupāda's questioning the presumption of this generalization. He said that a majority of the public have accepted Ramakrishna's comments on the Bhagavad-gītā, but what public? Where's the specifics of that generalization?

Bhagavān: He said and then Gandhi gave another interpretation that was...

Karandhara: Amongst the scholars and the true Vedic authorities in India, they don't accept Ramakrishna at all. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: It is difficult word to translate in English. He says at his time, Ramakrishna's was the expression of the mass of the people.

Prabhupāda: No.

Karandhara: What mass?

Prabhupāda: That is false.

Karandhara: Ramakrishna's popular in the West because of his skillful propaganda... (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that "Well, in a sense, we have to accept that Ramakrishna was expressing the sentiments of the public because he lived amongst the public."

Prabhupāda: No, that is his false understanding.

Karandhara: Still, that doesn't make it valid. Hitler, Hitler lived amongst the public too. And he was a...

Prabhupāda: No, I'll give you example that mass of people in Jagannātha Purī, in Vṛndāvana, many thousands, ten thousands, twenty thousands people, every day come, to worship Jagannātha, to worship Kṛṣṇa, but there is a Ramakrishna temple in Belurmath, or somewhere else—nobody goes. So how do you say the mass of people are attracted to Ramakrishna? And similarly, recently, our foreign students went to Vṛndāvana, went to Navadvīpa, by thousands, but nobody goes to Ramakrishna Mission temple. Then other point: Ramakrishna Mission is working in the western world almost one hundred years. Find out their disciples so many we have got. So your statement, "It is meant for the mass of people," it is false. I have given you proof from India and from here also. That means throughout the whole world. In India nobody cares for Ramakrishna. That I have given you proof. You go to Vṛndāvana. There nobody cares for Ramakrishna. You go to Jagannātha Purī, Haridvar, so many holy places. Nobody cares for Ramakrishna. So your idea, that it is for the mass, it is false. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says he was talking about the time of Ramakrishna, when Ramakrishna was there...

Prabhupāda: That, everything, bubble comes and goes away. It is no meaning. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says numbers aren't really very important.

Jyotirmayī: It's not a proof.

Yogeśvara: It's not a proof, just numbers.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: He says: But that's not a proof, just to say that there are greater number.

Karandhara: He was trying to submit it as a proof just a minute ago.

Prabhupāda: Now, sometimes he is going this side, sometimes goes that side. Sometimes he says, "Mass of people," and again he says, "Not the number of people." What is mass of people? That is the number of people. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says, for example, he can see the mass of people in Italy, they are Catholic. But that doesn't mean he's going to be impressed by the Catholic philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to... He was comparing that the mass of people, they take to Ramakrishna. That I have proved. They're not, the mass of people, not at all interested... That I have proved. That is my answer. (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said he was not saying that thousands of people were following Ramakrishna...

Prabhupāda: What is the mass of people mean?

Yogeśvara: He says Ramakrishna, whether he knew it or not, he was expressing a sentiment of the people at that time.

Prabhupāda: At that time. That is finished. So that is not permanent settlement. But Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, supremacy, at least for the last five thousand years, is intact. Now, he says Aurobindo, Gandhi, Ramakrishna. They're all gone. They came and gone. But Kṛṣṇa philosophy is truth, and it is standing, and it will go on standing. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says it's not the person important in this example. It's the idea they was expressing, all from five thousand years. The same idea was there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, same idea. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: (SB 1.3.28) "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That idea is accepted.

Karandhara: No, he's saying that Aurobindo and Ramakrishna expressed that same idea in contemporary language in their own time.

Prabhupāda: So that existed temporarily. Now it is gone. That will not appeal. (French)

Yogeśvara: In other words, what he's suggesting is that that's not actually an argument because the important thing is that there were times, at different times, different people have come and have attempted or have actually represented the public sentiment. They have become the epitome or resume' or synthesis of the public sentiment at a particular period. In other words, he's saying the great reform..., the great preachers, they've always been representatives of people; instead of being representatives of Kṛṣṇa, or God, they've been the representatives of the people.

Prabhupāda: The people's representative is different from God's representative. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that "Well, that's a belief." You have to believe that. He said that's only a belief.

Prabhupāda: No, people change according to the time, circumstances, they change. Their opinion has no value. We don't give any value to the people's opinion. We give value to the Supreme Being's opinion. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that that's dangerous because then we run the risk of having people who say, "Well, I represent the word of God. I can give you the true interpretation of the word of God, and they're actually only interested personal, private interests..."

Prabhupāda: No, if... If people... Not all. If there is actually opinion of God, if one man says the same opinion, then how others can say that "You all not giving God's opinion." God said, Kṛṣṇa said, that "You surrender to Me," and if I say that "You surrender to God," then how I am deviating from God's instruction? (French)

Yogeśvara: In other words, what you're saying is that, in essence we must stick to the words of God without interpreting." (aside:) Is that what he said?

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it. That we want.

Bhagavān: (to translators:) You should repeat your point that you make sure he understands. (French)

Prabhupāda: If you interpret, then the God's authority is denied. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says there is some deviation, some interpretation by some philosophers or sages. They deviate...

Prabhupāda: One who deviates is not a sage. He's a thief.

Pṛthu Putra: Yeah, it's what he says. I'm just translating his words.

Prabhupāda: No, if he deviates from the words of God, then he is not a sage. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, well, the thing that he appreciates in Hinduism is its openness and its tolerance to so many different paths and so many different interpretations.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But to abide by the orders of God, that is another thing. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says then we've made the full turn again. We've come back to the beginning. (French) He said so we've actually come back to the beginning of our discussion again which is that real religion has to be judged by the actions of men.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can judge. Here is the action of the men. Now the young men and boys and girls are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And who is taking to Ramakrishna? (French)

Bhagavān: So he is a man of action, and here we have a movement of action which is solving all problems of the world. What's his complaint? It's not a dream. It's actually by following this movement, we're solving all problems. So what does he have to say? If he follows exactly what Kṛṣṇa says, then all the problems will be solved. So why doesn't he follow what Kṛṣṇa says? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He received information.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pṛthu Putra: He received information that to follow, with some interest, that to follow what Kṛṣṇa says and like that, we can solve problems. (French) And personally, he respects you.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. That's all right. But thing is that we must know that he has spoken about Ramakrishna and Aurobindo. They also center their propaganda on Kṛṣṇa. Just like I already told. Ramakrishna said, "I am the same Krishna." That means he takes to Kṛṣṇa. Aurobindo, he has written "Life Divine." That is his explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. He takes to Kṛṣṇa. This Maharishi, he has also presented Bhagavad-gītā; he (has) taken to Kṛṣṇa. So their importance is by taking to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, they are valueless, nobody. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that for him, that's not really a problem. He says rather than referring to the person Kṛṣṇa, he just goes directly to the teaching of the Gītā, and he profits from that.

Prabhupāda: No, teachings of Bhagavad-gītā means Kṛṣṇa. That is the folly of the so-called scholars. They want to study Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Just like one wants to play Hamlet without Hamlet. (French, mentions Śaṅkara) Śaṅkara has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Does he know that, that Śaṅkara has accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality? (French)

Yogeśvara: So his point is that, well, ultimately, the, now what is going to happen, he says, is we're going to get into a discussion about whether or not the Supreme is a person or impersonal, and he says he doesn't really have the time to get into that.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then? What did he...? Why he come here? What for?

Yogeśvara: We invited him. (laughter) (French)

Devotee: Well, at the end of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: He says, "Give up all this religiousness, and surrender to Me." The whole purport of the Bhagavad-gītā. He's telling Arjuna to fight, but ultimately in the end, He's saying, "Just forget about all these ideas you have in your head, and surrender to Me."

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "Me" means Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Right.

Prabhupāda: So then Kṛṣṇa is everything.

Devotee: Mām ekam.

Prabhupāda: Yes, mām ekam, "only to Me." (French) So anyone who has studied Bhagavad-gītā rightly, he'll do that, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he accepts that as being... He says that's an opinion, just like there are many other opinions.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yogeśvara: He says that is an opinion, just as there are so many other opinions.

Prabhupāda: But this opinion is followed by all the ācāryas.

Bhagavān: This is Kṛṣṇa's opinion. (French)

Prabhupāda: India's culture, India's culture depends on the ācāryas. Just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, like that. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, ācāryopāsanam. So India's culture is still, up to date, it is followed by the ācāryas. Anyone you find in India who claims to become a Hindu, he must have followed the ācārya. So all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (French)

Page Title:What he's questioning, Prabhupada, is whether or not bhakti-yoga is suitable for everyone in every instance?
Compiler:MadhuGopaldas, Rishab
Created:28 of Jun, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=1, Let=0
No. of Quotes:1