Prabhupāda: (aside) Jaya. Yesterday . . . last night, I explained at the Birla house that you have to change only your care of. Now we are care of under material energy, and you have to transfer your under care of spiritual energy. They appreciated.
Dr. Patel: They are under the care of great māyā, mahā-māyā.
Prabhupāda: Everyone . . .
Dr. Patel: . . . is sitting in the building, of all the Birlas.
Prabhupāda: Not Birlas, everyone. (laughing)
Dr. Patel: (also laughing) I don't know that, sir. But I . . . I am a rebellion against them. In 1958, sir, I told you, the Congress, when I was a member of the Congress, that I can't be the member of such an institution which just simply lies, telling white lies.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You may say about congressman, and this one, Communist man; everyone is under . . .
Dr. Patel: Is a rascal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our verdict. Mūḍha. We understand from Bhagavad-gītā . . .
Dr. Patel: Why mūḍha, sir. Mudhatamaḥ!
Prabhupāda: Yes, vimūḍha. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says not only mūḍha but vimūḍha; viśeṣa-mūḍha especifical.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) He's a mūḍha.
Prabhupāda: Prahlāda Mahārāja says the same thing: tato vimūkha-cetasā (SB 7.9.43). Vimūkha cetasā means one who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Tato vimukha-cetasa soce, and simply thinking of desires. "Who are this?" "Those who are nondevotees; one who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Tato vimukha-cetasa. "So why you are searching?" "Māyā-sukhāya: simply for so-called sense gratification for a few days, bhāram udvahato vimūḍhān, making big, big plans. I am thinking of these rascals. What for they are making big, big plans? They will stay here for a few days, and forgetting Kṛṣṇa consciousness they are busy in making plans." This is Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says they are mūḍha, vimūḍha. As soon as you find one not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately mūḍha, vimūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
Dr. Patel: That knowledge is, I mean, perished by māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyā will help you. If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, māyā will help you, how you can more and more forget.
Dr. Patel: Māyā would help us even for finding out Kṛṣṇa also . . .
Prabhupāda: No. Māyā . . .
Dr. Patel: . . . because the body is the māyā, the mind is the māyā, and the very mind will help us, sir, that doesn't it help us to go towards Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No. That is not māyā's help. When you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, māyā will not bother with your business. That means you get relief from māyā. You are no more under the jurisdiction of māyā. You. . . now you are under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Māyā will trouble you so long you do not go in the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa.