Śyāmasundara: Prabhupāda, this is Lord Fenner-Brockway.
Prabhupāda: I'm so glad to...
Śyāmasundara: And...
Prabhupāda: So you were born in Calcutta?
Lord Brockway: Yes, a little before you. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So how long you remained after your birth?
Lord Brockway: I only remained in India for four years.
Prabhupāda: Four years.
Lord Brockway: And my childhood was spent at Berampur.
Prabhupāda: Berampur?
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I see.
Lord Brockway: My parents were missionaries there.
Prabhupāda: Hm. I was also a student of missionary college, Scottish Churches' College.
Lord Brockway: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We had very good professors. W. S. Urquhart, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was a Scotsman.
Lord Brockway: Yes, yes. Was that in Calcutta?
Prabhupāda: Yes, in Calcutta. And Lord Rolandson, Zetland, Marquis of Zetland. He was governor of Bengal. So he's also a Scotsman.
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So he came to our college in our, when we were young men, second year student. All our professors, mostly they were Scotsmen, and there was one English professor, Mister Warren. All other professors, they were Scotsmen, Mr. Keye, Mr. Cameron, Mr. Scrimgeour in this way.
Lord Brockway: Those are Scottish names.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Scottish names. So you remained only four years after your birth.
Lord Brockway: That is true. But I have quite clear memories, especially of Berampur, of our house, of playing with Indian children under a tree...
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Śyāmasundara: He goes back frequently to India for visits.
Prabhupāda: Berampur is not very far away from our temple.
Śyāmasundara: In Māyāpur?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That road goes to Berampur. That is called Berampur National Road.
Lord Brockway: Yes, it was then a village. I understand it is now a town. When I was in India five years ago, I set aside one day to visit Berampur, and unfortunately, it was the one day when I was not well. So I never went back.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen. You have so many nice books. We have got also some books. Have you shown him these books?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, I've given him some.
Lord Brockway: Oh, you... I have received many books.
Śyāmasundara: Mister... Lord Brockway has been a vegetarian his life long.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's very... That's a good advancement for spiritual understanding.
Lord Brockway: Yes, I became a vegetarian, oh, seventy years ago.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I see.
Lord Brockway: All from ascetic ideas, humanitarian ideas. And I've proved one can be just as healthy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you look very healthy.
Lord Brockway: Over eighty-five years. I'm very fortunate.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he's older than me. Still, he looks very nice.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Still active in the Parliament.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lord Brockway: And I know little about your religion and your philosophy. I do not belong to any religious denomination, though I believe in the spiritual basis of the universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lord Brockway: And the great moments of inspiration are those rare moments when you feel you belong to all of life, from the beginning of time, now, everywhere.
Prabhupāda: No, our preaching is also on that point, that God is one, and we are all sons of God. Call our paṇḍita. In the... I think you have read Bhagavad-gītā.
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There it is stated
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
Lord Kṛṣṇa says that there are different species of life, yoni. According to Padma Purāṇa there are eight million, four hundred thousand species of different forms of life. So Kṛṣṇa claims that "All these living entities, in different forms of life, I am the seed-giving father of all of them, and the material nature is the mother." Just like father impregnates with the seed, and the mother gives the body, similarly God impregnates material nature with all kinds of living entities, not in different forms, but the original seed. And according to one's karma, he comes out in different types of bodies. The body is given by material nature, and the life is given by God. This is the sum and substance. And therefore God is one, and He's the father of everyone. As such, without the center point, God consciousness, we cannot substantiate the ideas of universal brotherhood. Because if the center is missing, then how we can think of universal brotherhood? If we accept God is the center point, father, then I can understand you are my brother. Because you are also son of God; I am also son of God. But I am missing the father, then we miss also our mutual relationship. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he does not make any distinction between a tree or a man or animal or a brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla because he sees that within the body there is the soul, and the soul is spirit, part and parcel of God. That is his vision. You can take Bhagavad-gītā and... Read the Sixteenth Chapter. So at the present moment, the world is missing God, or they are rejecting, demonic. There are two classes of men always. One is called devatā, godly, and the other is called demon, asura. Or satanic. Whatever you call, the two classes. So those who are God conscious, they are godly. And those who have no God consciousness, they are demonic, or satanic. So these two classes of men are always there. But at the present moment, the number of demonic or satanic consciousness, they have increased. Yes. So the symptoms of the demonic people are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you kindly hear... You can s...
Pradyumna: Start with the godly?
Prabhupāda: Yes, godly. Yes.