C. Hennis: I don't consider myself to be a leader of mankind. I am very much a servant of mankind with a view to helping people to reduce the differences between them, with a view to helping people to understand one another better. In my own particular branch in which I'm concerned we endeavor to make people understand one another in the manner of an interpreter, if you like, to show, to allow people to speak and understand with one another, and to enable them to comprehend each other's problems and understand...
Prabhupāda: No. If there is actual brain, there is no problem. Just like if I have got good brain... I want to take this thing in my pocket. But if I have got brain, "No, this will be stealing," then I can refrain from it. But if I think that "It is lying here. I can take," what is that?
C. Hennis: I think that your effort of philosophy and teaching must really be directed, in the present state of affairs where countries are organized in the form of national states, must really be directed to the national leaders of government, the people who exercise temporal and spiritual power in the various sovereign states. And the United Nations is a forum for these sovereign states. The International Labor Organization is a forum for the sovereign states on certain subjects related to labor...
Prabhupāda: No, whatever subject may be, our point is the same. You just try to understand. If... You can organize so many, but if there is lack of brain, the brain is not in order, then any amount of suborganization, organization, will never be successful. That is my point.
C. Hennis: Yes, but there some people are better endowed with brains than others. Some people haven't got brains or not much brains.
Yogeśvara: But at least the direction must have brains. That's the point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The brain... This is the work of the first-class man, this is the work of the second-class man. Just like any organization, any office, "These are for these men, the class. These are meant for the superintendent. These are meant for..." Everywhere, there must be organization, not that everyone should work whimsically. No. There must be a managing board, managing director. He is giving direction. Under his direction, everyone is organized. So the United Nations, such a great. This was organized for the total benefit of the human society, but there is no department which is actually can be called the brain organization.
C. Hennis: That's true. That's true.
Prabhupāda: That is my point.
C. Hennis: That's true. They're servants of the membership and the membership is the international..., of the states, of the world. And if the governments of the states of the world, if Mr. Giscard d'Estaing, Mr. Nixon and Mr. Wilson and all the others don't have brain, then I'm afraid that the United Nations can do nothing to give them brains. There has to be... We are only the servants of these people. What we try and do is let them get together and help them understand their problems.
Prabhupāda: Let them understand. At least, let them understand what they should do, what they should not do. This much...
C. Hennis: This we do try to do to the extent that it is possible for the secretariat to shape and evolve a philosophy. We do try to do it. But of course we can't adopt a completely radical approach. We do what we can in the manner of a good servant and the manner of a good steward to try and help the leaders along the right path and right direction. Your Divine Grace, I thank you very much indeed for this audience. It's been very kind of you.
Prabhupāda: I may be a madman. I have talked so many things and you say all right.
C. Hennis: It's been very splendid, and I thank you very much indeed for giving me...
Prabhupāda: (laughing) But I am very much, I mean, strict on this point, that if the society does not know what is sinful and what is pious, it is all useless.