Svarūpa Dāmodara: They ask, "What is the force that combined matter and the ātmā, matter and life, matter and the jīva or ātmā? What is the force behind it?"
Prabhupāda: Force because ātmā is independent. He can live in the spiritual world or in the material world as he likes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But is not correct, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Paramātmā is the...
Prabhupāda: Paramātmā is...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...is behind.
Prabhupāda: Yes, behind, yes. He's the origin of ātmā. Mamaivāṁśa. Kṛṣṇa said, "This ātmā is my small particle part." He says that. So Paramātmā is the origin, and these are fragmental parts of Paramātmā.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That makes our statement very valid.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ātmā... Super-ātmā is the source of ātmā.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can explain everything, all..., but cannot explain by science.
Prabhupāda: That is the Bhagavad-gītā, Seventh Chapter, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā: (BG 7.4) "They are also My energy, and beyond this, there is superior energy." Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Both of them, energies, the material elements and the spiritual element, both of them are different energy of the supreme ātmā. So one is superior; another is inferior. Because we are superior, we are controlling the inferior energy, and by such control, from inferior energy matter, we have created this motor car. Therefore I am superior.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the West, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Western philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This subject matter is called "mind-body problem." The mind sometimes they compare as spirit or soul in some Western philosophical circles.
Prabhupāda: Because they are not yet advanced. Beyond the mind there is intelligence, and beyond the intelligence there is the soul.
- indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
- indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
- manasas tu parā buddhir
- yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ
- (BG 3.42)
They have come up to the mind, but above the mind there is intelligence, and above intelligence there is soul. So we can understand this very easily because we accept Bhagavad-gītā. It is easy for us. And for others, they are going step by step. It is very difficult. But we can understand immediately.