Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Professor Durckheim: Now this is going so far today that now suddenly something is awakening. They have said no. And this kind of rebellion in our Western, as you know better than I do, in our Western mankind . . . and they say: "Well, after all . . ." You see, science, they say: "Whatever you are feeling here, it is only subjective. The only thing which counts are the objects." Now, today, mankind has awakened and said: "No, I am not subjected. I am a subject. I am a person. So you are quite right to eliminate me if you want to make an atomic bomb or I don't know what, a technical thing. But you want to guide me, you have to do away with scientist's spectacles and look at me with the eyes of the real self. Otherwise you won't see me." So this is the turning point today where we are.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But this is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam five thousand years ago. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31): "These rascals, they do not know what is the aim of life."
Professor Durckheim: No, nothing.
Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Their aim of life is God realization, but they do not know that. And why they do not know that? Bahir-artha-māninaḥ: "They are thinking by these external features of the material nature they will be happy." That is very, quite visible in the Western countries. They are thinking that by constructing big, big, high skyscraper building their civilization is advancing, or machine, or technology. But they do not know this is not the aim of life. Real aim of life—to understand God. And na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā. Durāśayā means something, utopian hope, which will be never fulfilled. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Piling up simply bricks and stone, they are thinking, "In this way we shall be happy." That is durāśayā. That is never to be fulfilled. And then how this society is being led? Andha. The leader is a blind man. The so-called scientists, technologists, philosophers, others, they do not know what is the aim of life. He is a blind man, and he is trying to lead other blind men. This is the position. So if a blind man tries to lead other blind men, what benefit they will get? Because they do not know what is the . . .
Professor Durckheim: They won't move at all, blind . . .
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore they are being frustrated.
Professor Durckheim: There is a change today. The other day, a little while ago, I gave a conference. There were about a thousand doctors, physical medical doctors and psychotherapists assembled, and I told them, "Today be careful. There are two sufferings in the world. The one suffering is suffering because of lack of being efficient in the world. And they are going to look for the medical doctor or the psychotherapist in order to repair them, to repair their machine in order to be efficient. But there is another suffering, the suffering of not being one with the divine self in ourselves. And this is something quite different. Then you doctors have to be quiet and to discover in yourself something like a guru who answers this question, which has nothing to do with efficiency in the world." Oh, they were very, you see, became nervous about this question.
Prabhupāda: Now, the efficiency, just like medical treatment. If you know what is the end . . . Āyurvedic treatment it is called nidāna, nidāna, or diagnosis. First of all, before treating a patient you first of all diagnose what is the disease. Then you can give the proper medicine. But these people do not know how to diagnose. The diagnosis is that they must realize the Supreme. That is the disease. Because they have forgotten the Supreme, they are suffering. The symptoms are different. But they are treating only for the symptoms, not for the root cause. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to treat the patient from the root cause. They have forgotten God. Let them remember God. Then everything will come into . . .
Professor Durckheim: There is no disease of the human being which the animal has not, which has not this source. Any kind of human malady and disease which is reserved to the human being has always this source of being separated from the innermost reality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only that. The other than . . . lower animals—birds, beast and other—they have no problem. And we have created so many problems. They have no eating problem. Thousands and thousands of sparrows are here. They have no problem of eating. They are very nicely jumping, flying, eating.