David Lawrence: (reading from report) "...used to be involved heavily with that. The booklet itself is to be produced in color, black and white by means of one of the most modern printing systems in the world, and the colorplates should be of very good quality." You know, I was thinking about the beautiful pictures of the Bhagavad... (Break) ...really produce those. "It's hoped to market the thirty-page booklets for about thirty pence. The publisher, Marshall's Educational, is a long established publishing house which is Marshall, Morgan and Scott, specialized in theological and devotional books. They are now turning their attention to the production of much-needed religious education books. Financial basis of the series: David Lawrence has undertaken the commission with the agreement that they must be produced as cheaply as possible. The author receives no expenses and is receiving payment on the lowest rate of royalty only." So it means I've just about covered my expenses. "The purpose of the series of booklets: to offer the opportunity for students to see the spiritual way as relevant today, 2.) to show how God loves and how we should respond with devotion, 3.) to produce a booklet so cheaply that it will easily be available in schools and to any other interested inquirers, to the latter by means of national outlets such as W.H. Smith." They're an enormous chain of booksellers throughout the country. "4.) to allow each movement to speak for itself so that at every point the representatives will feel that they themselves are behind the booklet. This will give the youngsters full opportunity to make up their own minds as to the bona fide nature or not of a devotional organization." Your specific booklet. "An essential part of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness booklet and a revolutionary concept in religious education publishing will be the production of the teacher's pack. The aims of producing this pack are 1.) to arm the normally conservative R.E. teacher with such a battery of audio-visual aids that he will feel fully dressed to embark upon a series of lessons on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, 2.) to give the teacher..." (pause, people coming in or out of room)
Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.
David Lawrence: "2.) to give the teacher all the information," uh, where were we, "he or she may need to find out more than the booklet can include, for example, to satisfy the really interested inquirer, 3.) by a total sense experience, the cultural gap, which may unnecessarily alienate the students and therefore hamper a worthwhile consideration of the movement, 4.) by offering a wide variety of approaches, the student will not feel that he is simply studying another textbook, 5.) a booklet on Kṛṣṇa consciousness without the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra in a living form would be an absurdity, so the contents of the teacher's pack: A.) the forty-five r.p.m. record of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, B.) a glossy poster of Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa, C.) a map of the devotional centers of Kṛṣṇa, D.) a list of additional films, filmstrips and records likely to help the student, both from the center and from elsewhere, E.) sample literature from the organization, e.g. Back to Godhead, F.) a pack of Spiritual Sky incense, G.) a filmstrip,"—the enclosure of the filmstrip depends on the costing; R.E. departments are always very poor in this country—"H.) recipes and notes on the meaning of ārati, I.) several sheets of objections to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the rebuttals of these objections, J.) suggestions for the teaching of the subject." Then I've gone on to say a little bit about the structure of the booklet. "Hopefully, the first section would establish the claims of the relevance of the spiritual life in 1973, and then the claims of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to be the true pathway to the eternal. This we would like to do by means of holding up a respected example of somebody who is already walking the path, e.g. an ideal way would be by the examination of the beliefs of George Harrison, and more especially of those expounded on living in the material world." Then go on to the history of the movement: "Lord Caitanya, Śrī Sarasvatī,..." apologies for the way I pronounce the names, "Śrī Prabhupāda's commission to the western world, the growth of ISKCON, the establishment of the London center," you know, to bring it locally, if you like, then on to "a typical devotee, his day..." This, I've said, will help to personalize the whole idea, you know. They can relate to the person concerned with this. Then "a section on the sacred scriptures of the Vedas, a background, and then quotations of frequently used texts. Then onto the beliefs of the devotees, based mainly upon the eight principles of ISKCON, and the Introduction of the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is." Our hopes are to, you know, work very hard from that section because it's, that introduction has got everything. I've been working on it a week, and I think, uh, I've gone back over...
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā?
David Lawrence: Oh, yes. I've gone back over it about forty times now already. So I think I'm beginning to get hold of it. And then there would be lastly a reference section which would include all addresses that they would find useful, a glossary of the terms used, and an index, etc.
Prabhupāda: Very good. This...
David Lawrence: That...
Prabhupāda: ...synopsis is very nice.
David Lawrence: You like the idea, do you?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, very nice.
David Lawrence: The thing that I felt strongly about really was the teacher's pack. You see, in this country, being an R.E. teacher of long standing, there is so little that really communicates an experience, and I think the teacher's pack can help, through the senses, for these young people to experience something, you know, so that, perhaps, if they feel alienated...
Prabhupāda: We have, we have got a verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam
- kaumāra ācaret prājño
- dharmān bhāgavatān iha
- durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
- tad apy adhruvam arthadam
- (SB 7.6.1)
From the very childhood, kaumāra... Kaumāra is the age from five to fourteen years, or fifteen years. This is kaumāra age.
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a devotee when he was only five years old. And his father was atheist number one. So there was a great misunderstanding between the father and the son. The father was insisting the son that "You give up this line of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You become politician. You have to control over the kingdom and so on, so on..." But he could not give up. This is the misunderstanding between the father and the... So at, at the age of five years only, he was preaching. But how he was preaching? He was preaching... Because the father instructed the teachers, "Just look over this boy that he may not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Strictly. That is my order." So teachers were not allowing him. But he was taking opportunity in their tiffin hour.
Śyāmasundara: What?
Prabhupāda: Tiffin hour.
Śyāmasundara: Tiffin hour. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is...
Śyāmasundara: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Recess. When the teachers gone and students are free to move. So he was calling his class friends and other, and he was preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: Tiffin hour.
Prabhupāda: So... We call "tiffin hour" in India. Because we, we take some tiffin in the school, and we eat during that...
David Lawrence: Hm hm.
Prabhupāda: So he was preaching that kaumāra ācare... The other boys, they were insisting, "Prahlāda, why you are so much anxious about preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Let us play. It is our time to play." So "No, no." He said, "No, no. This is the time to learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Because you are teaching, therefore...
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...I am relating. "That kaumāra age, from five years to fifteen years, that is the right age for educating Kṛṣṇa consciousness." This is the word of... kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma (SB 7.6.1). He says that "This human form of body is very rarely gotten, and it is a rare opportunity for awakening our Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, is there in every human being, especially in civilized... So it is not an artificial thing. Just like my, all my students, they are Europeans, Americans. Four or five years ago, they did not know anything about Kṛṣṇa, neither they knew the name of Kṛṣṇa. But now you can see how they're absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is not an artificial thing.
David Lawrence: No.
Prabhupāda: If it, had it been an artificial, they would not have been so serious, but it is a dormant consciousness. I have simply awakened. I have awakened. Otherwise... That is the statement in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Some way or other, it is now snuffed out. They have forgotten. But if an opportunity is given, then it can be awakened. So this movement is giving opportunity to arouse that dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness which is already there in everyone. So if you take that process and allow this Kṛṣṇa consciousness among the students, oh, it will be great service to the humanity. As a teacher, you will give the greatest service.
David Lawrence: Yes, I agree.
Prabhupāda: Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). And this is the only opportunity of awakening our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we do not give that opportunity to the human beings from the childhood, it is a jealous... Jealousy means that you have got some opportunity, but if I do not allow you to take that opportunity, this is called jealous. So every human being has got the potency of awakening his God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in this human form of body. So if we do not give that opportunity, it is jealousy. Therefore students must be educated, and if you're writing such nice book, I think you will get, give a great service to your nation and to the human society in England. Because durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma, this human form of life... Unfortunately, people do not understand what is the distinction between this human form of life and animal form of life. That is another...
David Lawrence: They offer nothing, is it, in the material world.
Prabhupāda: So you give... Yes. That is the... The only difference is that in human form of life you can awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the animal form... Here we are sitting with all human form of life, gentlemen, civilized men. I cannot call cats and dogs and sit here, and to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Therefore this opportunity should be given. This opportunity should be given. And especially, you are English nation, recognized, great nation, respectful, you are respected... Especially in India, we have got very good respect for English nation. We had connection for so many years. And the politicians, they spoiled. Otherwise, the, I, we liked the British Empire, means unity of the human being all over the world. That can be revived again. That can be revived again. If you come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, your Queen comes to that,... There is process. There is process. You can revive your British Empire. It is not story. If you people take little advice from me, I can help you. Yes. You are intelligent nation. So kindly do this service to the students and awaken their dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be a great service. And we are meant for helping you all. So you can inquire. You are at liberty to come at any time and inquire.
David Lawrence: You give an audience.
Prabhupāda: You question.
David Lawrence: We're working predominantly with the older age group, of course. And, uh... Fourteen, fifteens.
Prabhupāda: But first thing is, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based directly on the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nothing but to accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. That is the...
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. It is open to everyone. It is not only open to us. Everyone. Bhagavad-gītā. It is widely-read literature in the world. But unfortunately, they have been misinterpreted.