Prabhupāda: No, no, I shall learn. I shall...
Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are used to cheating and so they couldn't believe Kṛṣṇa either...
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.
Dr. Wolf: They are used to cheating and that's why they don't trust anything and anybody.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Sceptic.
Dr. Wolf: Because they are cheaters themselves.
Prabhupāda: Sceptic is not a scientist or a man of knowledge. He's unbeliever, that's all.
Rūpānuga: Sceptic can actually not have full knowledge, he can never have full knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No.
Devotee (1): The scientists, they cannot understand the (indistinct), they can understand what is the relationship between the world of ideas, the world of names, and the world that they see. How can we explain what that means?
Prabhupāda: There is spiritual and material. The material is simply a phantasmagoria. It is the imitation of the reality. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, fifteenth chapter, find out. Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). That is called mirage. In the desert the animal is finding water. There is no water in the desert. But there is water, but not in the desert. That they do not know. So this is just like desert, this material world and everything is reflection like the water. But desert there is no water, it is only reflection. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayo yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayaḥ. Here everything is a transformation of three material things, fire, water, and earth, but it looks like reality. Just like the mirage, that is also tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayaḥ, by reflection of the sun falling on the sand, and it looks like water. This is (indistinct). And the animal is running after water, running, running, running, when he becomes fatigued (he) dies. That's all.
Devotee (1): But here in the material world when we look for water, we actually take it and we can drink it.
Prabhupāda: That is not water! That you do not know.
Devotee (1): That's not water either.
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?
Satsvarūpa: Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham. "The blessed Lord said: 'There is a banyan tree which has its roots upward and its branches down and whose leaves are the Vedic hymns. One who knows this tree is a knower of the Vedas.' "
Prabhupāda: Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). Where you have experienced this tree? You have experience: a tree is adhaḥ, down, a mūla, the root, is down and the tree is up. And here it is said, ūrdhva-mūlam, the root is up and the branches and twigs, they're down. Where you have experienced? Eh? Dr. Wolf, where you have experienced this tree?
Dr. Wolf: I know of it, yes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Wolf: I know of the tree with the fruits up and the leaves down, yes.
Prabhupāda: What is that? What is that?
Dr. Wolf: There is one.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We say the water. We say the reflection of a real tree.
Dr. Wolf: Right, right.
Prabhupāda: So reflection is not reality and therefore it is compared like that. It is not reality.
Rūpānuga: Otherwise it would be satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rūpānuga: If it was real we would be satisfied with it.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee (2): So the scientists are engaged in minutely analyzing this mirage, the reflection. They're wasting their time.
Prabhupāda: Yes, now you are right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have some specific topics that we wanted to have Śrīla Prabhupāda's instruction about these things that we are going to write. So shall I discuss them very briefly?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The title is "The Origin of Life and Matter," and then there will be a sub-title called "Life is a Manifestation of Life Only."
Prabhupāda: Mm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: "Life is a Manifestation of Life Only." I mean "Life Comes from Life."
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the sub-title.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then we have some tentative titles of the chapters and the first one is "A Unique Differentiation between a Living Spade(?) and a Non-living Matter."
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This will be tentatively planned to write by me and the second chapter is "The Eternality of the Living." That's also by me. And the third chapter is called "A Look at the Natural Laws Regarding the Origin of Life and Matter." In this there are different sections. First section is quantum mechanical demonstration that will be written by Jad (?) Prabhu, he's a mathematician.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the second part of it...
Prabhupāda: That theory, mathematics, you presented...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, this is...
Prabhupāda: His.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's his.
Prabhupāda: So it is very nice. You have dedicated to Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The second one is "Order Cannot Arise from Disorder." This will be based on mathematical arguments.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also Jad Prabhu's (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And third one is "The Statistical Disproof of Darwin's Theory." This is on advanced mathematics. That also Richard Prabhu's duty.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And then on fourth chapter we have a section called "False Theory," namely that life originates from matter. This will be Mādhava Prabhu's...
Prabhupāda: Life originates from matter?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Devotee: False theory.
Prabhupāda: About false theory. Very good. (laughter) Very good, it will be very nice. You have all Kṛṣṇa's blessing, do it nicely.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then from fifth chapter it will be evolution versus transmigration.
Prabhupāda: Mm, yes, very good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And explanation. That will be written by me.
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And then on the sixth chapter there will be a topic called "Molecular Evolution." This will taking the jumbles of the scientific findings, but we use it as a jumbles and turn around to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that will be by me and...
Prabhupāda: That is vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya. Is not that? The last chapter, what he means?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, this one?
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is molecular evolution.
Prabhupāda: Ha. Molecular evolution takes place when the light is there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually when they say molecular evolution, it talks only about molecules. They don't talk about life. Because they don't know what life is.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they talk only about molecules. That everybody knows that molecules are around and it's evolving. But they don't know that there is life. They take...
Prabhupāda: That is their defect. That is their defect, we want to educate them on this point.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And on the seventh chapter there is that Prabhupāda's, that theory of acintya-śakti.
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be a collective effort of all the prabhus from the movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, acintya-śakti is there, within our body.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to present it in some sort of very good arguments, foundations are there. It will be our collective effort.
Prabhupāda: Yes.