Prabhupāda: (break) Svarūpa Dāmodara is real scientist. He is admitting. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. What is that? Yad-uttama-śloka-guṇanuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22).
- idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
Puṁsa, "of the human society," sviṣṭasya, "education..." Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya, sviṣṭasya, ca buddhi-dattayoḥ. Whatever big, big activities are there—education, charity, tapasya... Why these things are required? What is the meaning of becoming advanced in such things? Avicyuto 'rthaḥ: "Without any doubt, the artha, the conclusion, is that they should describe the wonderful activities of the Supreme Person." Then it is perfect education. And these rascals, they are saying, "Now we don't require God."
Dr. Patel: No, sir, but these great scientists like Huxley were all...
Prabhupāda: No....
Dr. Patel: They have realized the working of God in every atom, to tell the truth. It was so some fifty years back that the scientists did not believe in the existence and working of God, but they have much changed now.
Prabhupāda: That means they were foolish; now they are coming to be wise.
Dr. Patel: But they have died out, the previous generation. Now the new generation.
Prabhupāda: No, still there are, so many rascals.
Dr. Patel: There cannot be uniformity of...
Prabhupāda: So many rascals. One scientist came to talk with me in California. And he: "God? What is God? We have now solved everything." And you are rascal, demon.
Dr. Patel: He should be asked to "Make a single living cell yourself. We'll give you all the ingredients, all the chemicals, and make us a living cell. If you can make it?" That should be the answer to that.
Prabhupāda: They are so foolish. I very strongly talk with them. Still, stubborn, doggish. That scientist, I told him in his..., that "You are a demon." I told him, "You are a demon." So he tolerated. (laughs)
Dr. Patel: They are serving the Mammon and not God.
Prabhupāda: So, so many psychologists, psychiatrists, scientists, they come there in Los Angeles.
Dr. Patel: I mean, the psychologists are the real science which can lead a man to the higher understanding of life, psychologists. The abstract sciences of biology and psychics, chemistry, are little lower sciences. The psychology is much higher.
Prabhupāda: No science is perfect. Asato dhavato bahiḥ.
Dr. Patel: In imperfection also there can be gradations.
Prabhupāda: Gradations, that I give the example: stool, this side and that side, the dry side and the moist side. Somebody says, "Oh, this side is very good. It is dry stool." (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You have to examine in a different way.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is very good example. Stool is stool, but they are thinking, "This side is very good because it is dried up.
Dr. Patel: We see a thing from any angle, sir.
Prabhupāda: Now, this is also one of the angle.
Dr. Patel: Scientists have got different angle.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no different angle. It is foolishness. Stool is stool, this side or... If you say, "This angle is very..." The same thing.
Dr. Patel: The human stool is a stool for the human being. Does it not become a food for a stray dog?
Prabhupāda: That is human stool.
Dr. Patel: That you see. Does it not become the food for a stray dog, sir? That you see.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore we say...
Dr. Patel: When I was a small boy I was very much wondering how this filth that is cast away from human body can nourish the dog's body. But that is the bountifulness of God, sir.
Yaśomatīnandana: Just like that...
Dr. Patel: Now don't talk. (laughter) I was a professor in the college, so I am very sorry. This particular habit is lurking me as yet.
Yaśomatīnandana: māyā is killing the scientists.
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati) But that is what it is, sir. Really, it set me thinking when I was a small baby boy, how this could maintain the body of a dog if there was no something in it. It is a very important thing to understand. Think about it.
Prabhupāda: ...good substance, very good substance. Stool is full of hypophosphates.
Dr. Patel: Whatever it is, but there it is...
Prabhupāda: That was analyzed by a big doctor. You know that Dr. Ghosh who came? Dr. Ghosh from Allahabad? So one day I went to his house, and I saw in a plate something yellow is kept. And "What is this, doctor?" "Oh, that is stool to be examined."
Dr. Patel: The stool, so long it is in your body, it is you, a part of you, because we are all, majority of us are body conscious. There are very few people like you, who are so conscious.
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda philosophy.
Dr. Patel: We are in the process of making soul-consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is Māyāvāda philosophy.
Dr. Patel: But still every moment we are body conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it. But that is Māyāvāda philosophy, "Everything one. Everything one."
Dr. Patel: Māyāvāda or no vāda, this is a fact, that we are body conscious. We look to the facts, sir, we scientists.
Brahmānanda: Rāmakrishna ate stool because he said, "Stool and prasādam are one."
Prabhupāda: Hm? He ate stool?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Where does he say so?
Brahmānanda: His disciple... One of his disciples told us.
Dr. Patel: Disciple has said, but...
Brahmānanda: As an experiment to show that it was all one, he said that he ate stool.
Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know about stool, but he wanted to eat beef.
Dr. Patel: Meat.
Prabhupāda: Beef.
Dr. Patel: Because he tried to worship God in the form of Muslims.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple. "Now I am going to experiment Mohammedan religion, so I want to eat beef." So he said frankly that "Now you have to go away, sir. I cannot allow this." Then he stopped.
Dr. Patel: But he did not eat beef. He did not eat beef. He saw it and that's all.
Prabhupāda: No, when the permission was not given by the proprietor he had no other way to stop.
Dr. Patel: Rasamaṇi.
Prabhupāda: Rasamaṇi. Rasamaṇi's husband.
Dr. Patel: She was a widow.
Prabhupāda: Oh, husband, no. Yes. His son-in-law.
Dr. Patel: The son-in-law, Mathurā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ah, yes.
Dr. Patel: So he experimented as a Christian, as a Muslim, and all, and he said he came to the same truth.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That is rascaldom. He experimented means he was a fool. And a fool makes experiment, one who is fool. One who knows, why he should make experiment?
Dr. Patel: Scientists do make experiments.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are fools. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You say so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't make any experiment. We don't make any. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is God." That's all. No experiment.
Dr. Patel: If, sir, Edison had not made experiment...
Prabhupāda: Edison, Fedison, all, these are rascals. All these... Edison...
Dr. Patel: You would not have electricity today in the streets.
Prabhupāda: We don't make any experiments.
Dr. Patel: This is a matter of worshiping. He experimented with the method of worshiping.
Prabhupāda: No, experiment means one who is making experiment, he is a fool.
Dr. Patel: I mean the experiment of making..., method of worshiping, sir. You worship this way, other...
Prabhupāda: There is no method. Only method-bhaktya mam abhijanati (BG 18.55). That is method. All rascals. All rascals. Yes, all rascals.
Dr. Patel: No, sir. The Christians, they go to the temple to worship God in the same way.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say Christian and Hindus, Muslims. Anyone who is not a bhakta, he is a rascal. That's all. That is our conclusion. Therefore we say all rascals. Muḍḥa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Why should we experiment other than that?