So Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired from Sūta Gosvāmī, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, how the people in general, rotting in hellish life, could be saved. This is the desire of a Vaiṣṇava. Others, they do not care whether one is suffering or enjoying. But a Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of the Lord, he always thinks of the fallen condition of general people. Just like in Christian philosophy they believe that Lord Jesus Christ suffered to be crucified by assimilating all the sinful activities of the people. Yes. A devotee of Lord thinks like that. Similar devotee was Vāsudeva Datta, Lord Caitanya's... He requested the Lord that "You have come. Kindly deliver all these people now present on this earth, and take them to Vaikuṇṭha. And if You think that they are so sinful that they cannot be delivered, then please transfer all their sins unto me. I shall suffer. You take them." This is Vaiṣṇava: "So for all their sins, I shall suffer. You take them." This philosophy is also expressed in Bible, Lord Jesus Christ, that he agreed to suffer himself for the sins of all the people. But that does not mean that Jesus Christ or Vāsudeva Datta should make a contract for ourself and we shall go on committing sins. This is most heinous proposal. A Vaiṣṇava and a devotee suffers for all humanity, human race. But that does not mean that human race, or the particular followers should take advantage of this facility and go on committing sins. That is not a good proposal. They should take rather seriously, that "Lord Jesus Christ or Vāsudeva Datta who has suffered for us so much, we shall stop committing sins now." That is sane proposal. Otherwise, if I think, "Well, there is Vāsudeva Datta and Lord Jesus Christ. He will suffer for us and let us go on merry-making. That's all." A most heinous life.
That is what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction
Expressions researched:
"contract"
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: They say that it's a paradox, that... They say that it's a paradox or an apparent contradiction that the Transcendental came into the material world and appeared to suffer for men, but actually he does not suffer because He is God, that He only appeared to suffer to save us from our sins and remind us always not to sin.
Prabhupāda: But why the Christians are committing sins still? They have given contract to Jesus Christ that "You suffer for us and we go on committing sins." Very good philosophy.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. Very good means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?
Devotee: Yes.
Devotee (1): They say all our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus.
Prabhupāda: But one thing is we sing daily, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. You have to please your spiritual master. But yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi, if you displease your spiritual master then you are nowhere. How do you adjust these things? It does not mean that because you have made somebody spiritual master, you displease him, at the same time he takes responsibility. Is it very nice?
Devotee (5): Many times...
Prabhupāda: If you please him, then he is responsible. Yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If you displease him then you are nowhere. So, if you take it in this way, that my spiritual master has taken responsibility so whatever nonsense I do, it doesn't matter. The Christians are thinking like that. Jesus Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities, so we can do anything, whatever we like. But that is not the fact. If one takes responsibility for you, you must abide by his order. Otherwise how is that, that he simply takes responsibility and you don't abide by his order? It is reciprocal. But the Christians are thinking, "Because we have taken to Christian religion, now we are safe. We can do anything we like and Lord Jesus Christ will compensate. He'll be every time crucified and we can go on doing all nonsense." Is it not? Then? That's not a very good idea. This is, as Viśvanātha Cakravartī said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. If you please your spiritual master, then God will be pleased. If you don't please him, then you are nowhere. So first of all you please Jesus Christ, that is reasonable, then he takes the responsibility. If you disobey Jesus Christ in every step, what is his responsibility? That is a misconception.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.
Bob: So Christ's suffering was of that nature?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bob: Was Christ's suffering this...
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that he took the sinful reaction of all the people, therefore he suffered.
Bob: I see.
Prabhupāda: He said... That is the Bible, that he has taken all the sinful reactions of the people and he sacrificed his life. But these Christian people, they have made it a law that "Christ will suffer and we shall do all nonsense." Such great fools they are. They are... "Let Jesus Christ make contract for taking all one sinful reaction, and we will go on with all nonsense." That is their religion. This... They are not in sense that "Christ is so magnanimous that he took all our sins and he has suffered... We stop all these sins!" They have not come to that sense. They have taking it very easily: "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we do all nonsense." Is it not?
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on.
Bob Cohen: Prabhupāda, people that engage in religions, like these Jesus freaks and other people, they claim that Jesus is guiding them. Can this be so?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they're not taking the guidance. Just like the Christians. Jesus guiding him, "Thou shalt not kill," but they're killing. Where is the Jesus guidance? Simply by saying, "I am guided by Jesus Christ," will do? "But I don't care for his words." Is that guidance? So nobody is being guided by Jesus Christ. They're falsely claiming. It is very hard to find out a man who is actually being guided by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's guidance is open there, but nobody is caring for him. They have taken Jesus Christ as contractor to take up their sins. That is their philosophy. They commit all kinds of sins, and poor Jesus Christ will be responsible. That is their religion. Therefore they say, "We have got very good religion. For all our sinful activities, Jesus Christ will die." Very good religion. They have no sympathy for Jesus Christ. "Once he has died for our sins, why should we commit again sins? Such a great life has been sacrificed for our sins." That is guided by Jesus Christ. But if you take it otherwise—"We shall go on committing all sins, and Jesus Christ has made contract that he'll nullify all my sins. Simply I go to the church and confess, and come back and again do all nonsense"—do you think it is very goodly intelligence?
Bob Cohen: No.
Prabhupāda: That you... Actually one is guided by Jesus Christ, he'll get liberation, certainly. But it is very hard to find out a man who is actually being guided by Jesus Christ.
Bob Cohen: What I think about is the Jesus freaks, the..., these people that, young people that have joined this Jesus movement, and they read the Bible very often, and they try to...
Prabhupāda: But to read the Bible, but violate the Bible injunction, injunction. How they can kill if they are following the Bible?
Bob Cohen: I asked one. They said..., he said he claimed that Jesus was also eating meat in the Bible. But I don't know.
Prabhupāda: But that's all right. He, he may eat anything. He's powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill." You must stop killing. He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. You cannot compare with Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate Jesus Christ. You shall have to abide by his order. That is your position.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vaiṣṇava is, if one man is real Vaiṣṇava. Just like see Jesus Christ. It is said that he took everyone's sins and he was crucified. So how much merciful he is, just see. But these rascals have taken, that "Let us go on committing sinful activities, and Christ has taken contract. He will suffer. And we shall do this." Such rascals. You see. They say that "Our Christian religion is so good that even we commit sinful acts, Christ will suffer, we shall not suffer." Just see.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (break) ...sinners.
Revatīnandana: I think it is a joke, though.
Jayadvaita: Then again commit sins. They'll repent and commit them again.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Atonement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whenever we meet the Christians, they always say that "It doesn't matter because Jesus came to save us from our sins. So now it doesn't matter because we're saved."
Prabhupāda: Then Jesus is a fool, and he has taken contract to suffer, and these people are free to commit sin.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Jesus actually said...
Prabhupāda: And they are so clever that they can make God's son also fool. Over-clever.
Dharmādhyakṣa: (break) ...always said, "Your sins are forgiven you, go and sin no more." He always gave that injunction, "Go and sin no more." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...is no description of sins in Bible? What are the sins?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killing, adultery, stealing. They mention it.
Jayatīrtha: There are Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: That is.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Worship of demigods. They also say, "Putting any god in front of the one Supreme God." Worshiping matter. (break)
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they (indistinct) enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, (indistinct) was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are (indistinct). What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are (indistinct) and not only that, they have been giving this idea that "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed(?)." Cow-killing is very, very sin, "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.
Devotee (2): They...
Prabhupāda: Huh?.
Devotee (2): They call it love.
Prabhupāda: This is love? If you say, "Prabhupāda, I love you. Now I want to kill you. Now I will kill you." Please don't love me! (laughter) Please get out. "I love you so much that I will kill you."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?"
Prabhupāda: It has no meaning. The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him. Because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced. Those doctrines, they are not (indistinct). That's all. The answer.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Did Jesus die on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?"
Prabhupāda: This is another sinful thought—Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. That's a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins unless they stop sinning.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of his preaching? They will continue sinful activities, and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. How nonsense idea this is! Bhavānanda, do you think it is good idea?
Bhavānanda: Not a good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Nonsense rascals. These people should be immediately hanged. "Our religion is very good." What is that? "We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rascals.
Prabhupāda: How rascaldom it is! Nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Nāma-aparādha. "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so no sinful action will be." It is like that. That means "I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian, become a Vaiṣṇava, become a chanter."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nāma-aparādha.
Prabhupāda: See whether I am answering correct.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you are answering very good. He gives a lot of quotations from the Bible. So I'll just read you two of them, and it is very easy to...
Prabhupāda: What is the use of giving me quotations from...? We are talking about practical things.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The only point I was going to bring out was that it is clear how they misread the Bible. Just like one of them says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." But you pointed out that to believe means to follow his teachings. That they don't understand. They say, "We believe in Jesus," but they don't follow his teachings.
Prabhupāda: Then where is his belief? Where is the question of belief? Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. It is bogus principle.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading Prabhupāda's letter in reply to Mr. Francois Pierre):The answers to your questions are as follows: 1) Yes, the message of Jesus is universally applicable. Why not? Jesus says, 'Thou shalt not kill.' This is applicable to all. But all Christians are violating this law. So where is a Christian? In my opinion there is not a single Christian. Do they follow all ten commandments? 2) We accept Jesus Christ as śaktyāveśa-avatāra, an empowered incarnation of God. 3) The Bible should be accepted literally and not symbolically. There is no symbolical meaning of the sacrifice on the cross. The people were so rascal. They attempted to kill him because he was speaking of God. We can understand the position of that society. He had to deal with such rascals. He preached 'Thou shalt not kill,' and they killed him. The argument that Jesus died to redeem us of sins is simply another sinful argument. That Jesus has taken contract to redeem your sins is simply a plea of the sinners. They continue sinning and expect Christ to take the contract to freedom. It is most sinful. Instead of actually stopping sins, they contract with Jesus Christ. These people should be immediately hanged. That way our..., they say, 'That way our religion is very good. We cannot stop sinning, but it is okay because Christ has taken contract to save us.' It is the same as saying 'I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa now. I can do any nonsense.' That is known as nāma-aparādha, offenses to the holy name of the Lord.
Girirāja: Very nice. Actually, about two years ago there was a propaganda in the West that if you are afraid of sinning, then it means that you don't have full faith in Jesus Christ. Because he has promised to accept your sinful reactions. So therefore if you sin, then it means that you have full faith that he will accept the reaction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said those people should be hanged immediately.
Prabhupāda: When the Bible has said, that after death one goes to hell or heaven? If Jesus Christ has taken a contract, then where is the question of going to hell?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that is for people who don't sign the contract with him. That is what they say. As long as you say that you accept Jesus, then you are going to heaven for sure.
Prabhupāda: So then Jesus Christ accepted sinful reaction of a certain class of men. He is not universal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only those who accept him.
Girirāja: That means the Christians.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And anyone who was born before Jesus, he is doomed.
Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their great philosophy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Great philosophy.
Girirāja: So this point was an embarrassment for the Christian theologians, because people would say, "Well, what about great philosophers like Socrates and Plato who lived before Jesus? They are also damned to suffer in hell?" So this question was very perplexing. It was hard for them to condemn that they are all burning in hell. I mean, actually they have no philosophy at all.
Prabhupāda: All nonsense.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is why we rejected our so-called religious heritage. We could see that there was no substance to it. And the leaders were just like normal debauchees of any other groups. They weren't spiritual. I used to remember seeing the priests and the rabbis getting drunk, smoking cigarettes, talking nonsense just like everybody else. There was no difference except for the dress.
Prabhupāda: This is everywhere. In India also.
| Page Title: | That is what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika |
| Created: | 18 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=2, Con=10, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 12 |