Prabhupāda: Because people are godless at the present moment, they're suffering.
Lord Brockway: It's not only because of that.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Lord Brockway: It's not only . . .
Prabhupāda: That is the only cause.
Lord Brockway: No . . .
Prabhupāda: That we can . . . that we can give very scientific evidence. That is the only cause.
Lord Brockway: No, it's not the only cause.
Prabhupāda: No, that we have to understand.
Lord Brockway: No, please. I know, I know of people who are very God conscious, beautiful people, kind in all their human relations, but they haven't got a beginning of an understanding of how one can bring brotherhood and peace to the world.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then . . .
Lord Brockway: And therefore, in addition to God consciousness, you must have understanding, knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that understanding, that required. So that is needed. People have no opportunity to understand. Just like if you speak . . .
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: . . . they'll talk of universal brotherhood, but they'll send the poor animals to the slaughterhouse.
Lord Brockway: They . . .?
Prabhupāda: To the slaughterhouse.
Śyāmasundara: Animals.
Prabhupāda: Animals.
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That means they have no right understanding of universal brotherhood.
Lord Brockway: No. With that I agree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the use of talking of universal brotherhood when you actually do not treat like that?
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But that is due to his lack of God consciousness. He'll talk very high words, but practically he cannot do it.
Śyāmasundara: No information.
Prabhupāda: Yes, no information. Just like the Commu . . . even in Communist country, they, they are thinking that national, everything should be national. So what is the meaning of national? But, any living entity born in that country is national. So why the poor animals are not nationals? That is . . . means lack of God consciousness. He does not know. He thinks simply human being national.
Lord Brockway: Oh, I agree. I'm a vegetarian.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this is all due to lack of God consciousness. Therefore the only remedy is to make people God conscious, thoroughly, perfectly. Then everything will be all right.
Lord Brockway: That I don't accept. God consciousness plus understanding.
Prabhupāda: Now, God conscious means understanding. Without understanding, how there can be God consciousness?
Lord Brockway: And you, you may easily have a person who is very God conscious, beautiful in their own lives, beautiful to all the group around them, who have no understanding of the problems of the world at all.
Prabhupāda: That is not perfect God conscious. That is partial. Perfect consciousness means full understanding also. That is perfect God consciousness. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). This is the Vedic injunction. If you understand only God, then you understand everything. But if he does not understand everything rightly, that means he's not fully understanding God. This is the . . . if, as you say, that a man is fully God conscious but he cannot do this, cannot do that, that means his understanding of God consciousness is still lacking. It is not full understanding.
A full understanding of God consciousness means he's a perfect man. He's a perfect man. He'll never commit anything mistake. Because he's guided. Teṣām . . . what is that? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam . . .
(aside) Find out.
A God conscious person is getting direct instruction from God. How it can be defective? It cannot be. Practical. But if one is defective, he's not yet fully God conscious.