Guest (1): Swamiji, my main question is although spiritualism is the Absolute Truth, can we not in some way make spiritualism in such a way, modify it in such a way, as to help the common people?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): The masses.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are doing.
Guest (1): They have been steeped in ignorance for such a long time, it will take a long time to bring them into the fold of spiritualism.
Prabhupāda: No, it has been made easy by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That you don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't commit sinful life, that's all. And sinful life we have given them, no illicit sex—we don't say, "no sex"—no illicit sex, no illicit sex, no meat eating. Suppose... They are not now eating meat, are they unhealthy? They are known now as bright-faced. So no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, and no gambling. This is avoiding sinful life. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you see the result? Do you see the result? Within four, five years how they have advanced. Not that they're Vedantists or they have studied all the Vedas, not that. Simple thing. Have you ever come here in the evening when they perform ārati, kīrtana? Just see how ecstatic it is. Simple thing. Don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, bas. You'll become elevated. Jagāi, Mādhāi, they were—in those days, because they were drunkards, women hunters, meat-eaters—they were considered most sinful. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them by this process. There were two Jagāi and Mādhāi and now hundreds and thousands of Jagāis and Mādhāis are becoming purified. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. Everyone wants evidence. Huh? Pāpī-tāpī, all sinful men were delivered simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you may ask what is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi, the evidence is here, jagāi mādhāi. So not that Jagāi, Mādhāi five hundred years ago, now see at the present moment. They did not come to me after studying all the Vedas, and Vedantists. They come to me, I ask them that, "Don't commit these sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."That's all. Everyone can do, even the child can do. So you are all educated men, you study this philosophy, try to understand, also join. It is your duty, because you are Indian. Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted this mission to the Indians.
- bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
- janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
Indians are meant for doing good to others. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. An Indian can become perfect because there is all the Vedic literature. Janma sārthaka kari'. First of all you become perfect then preach the knowledge for other's benefit. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. Now our leaders say, "Throw away these all śāstras in the water." This is going on. And what they have gained by throwing away? And actually government is against us, against my movement in India. What can I do?
Guest (1): At this time I think India also needs as much spiritual movement as anybody else in the world.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest (1): At this time I think India itself needs as much as spiritual needs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): We are as much backwards as anybody else in the world, probably more so.
Prabhupāda: Because we have lost our original culture and we could not take the Western culture. So we are in the wilderness.
Guest (1): Because here the average man takes more interest.
Prabhupāda: Because they are fed up.
Guest (1): Whereas in India the average man doesn't even take interest.
Prabhupāda: No, he knows, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? We know it, now reject it."
Guest (2): An average Indian, I think he will not be able to tell you how many chapters there are in the Gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have never been taught. But still they are Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: When we hold our meeting in India twenty thousand, thirty thousand people come still, because by nature they are inclined. By artificial means they are being subdued. And in every step I can feel—they are not openly saying—the government is giving me trouble. They don't want this movement may go on nicely in India.
Guest (2): But rules cannot be...
Prabhupāda: No, that cannot be suppressed, that cannot be suppressed.
Guest (2): ...cannot be subdued, even if this prime minister or Mahatma Gandhi, (indistinct) of Lord Kṛṣṇa and this and that. That is foolishness (indistinct).