Vipina: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This is Mr. Kruzowsky. He's a philosophy teacher at the University of Maryland. He's very much interested in yoga and meditation. He invited us to speak earlier this year in his class, philosophy and religion.
Devotee (3): And this is Emmet Holman(?) who teaches philosophy at George Mason University. He's also very interested in Indian philosophy.
Prabhupāda: We had some talk with Professor Kotovsky in Moscow. Recently our representative went to Moscow for selling our book. They have highly appreciated our books. They have given in writing appreciation.
Mr. Boyd: Your Grace, in regards to the organization of the movement, as such, I somehow am led to believe that there's no coordination between, should I say, your office, in regards to the karmī world, and the different temples. Are each..., does each temple operate by itself, or each division operate by itself?
Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). There is separate arrangement for management, but the idea and philosophy is the same. Ultimately, I am managing. I have my twenty secretaries, they are called GBC, they are assisting me to manage. Every GBC has got a certain number of temples to supervise, and ultimately, I supervise everything. Therefore I come occasionally, stay for few days to see how things are going on. I have got hundred temples, big, big temples, very nice. They have organized palatial buildings, but I cannot stay anywhere. (laughter)
Mr. Boyd: That's the trouble with being boss. If you don't do it, nobody else will.
Prabhupāda: As soon as I say, "Ah, it is very nice place," the time is over, they say "You please get out." (laughter and groans from devotees)
Mr. Boyd: The school in Vṛndāvana, is this, I assume this is to be out there in the yard that they were clearing. When do you anticipate that will be built?
Prabhupāda: When they clear the land, we are going to construct a nice building for the school. As soon as it is done, then we will organize. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of life, this Bhāgavata principle should be trained. That is perfect. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to read at the house of the spiritual master. They should be trained up how to control the senses, dānta. Dānta means to practice how to control the senses. That is the difference between human being and animal. Animal cannot be trained up how to control their senses. That is not possible. But a human being can be trained up to control his senses. The yoga practice is meant for controlling the sense. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamī. That is the real yoga practice, not that I indulge in sense gratification as I like, and I become a yogi. This is all bogus. This is not yoga. Yoga means how to control the senses. Then I can concentrate my mind towards God realization and self-realization. If my senses are always disturbing, it is not possible to apply my mind for self-realization. That is not possible. Therefore the yoga practice, preliminary practice, is yama-niyama, controlling, niyama, under regulative principles. They are all described in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literature also. And the ultimate end of yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). By meditation, he always thinks... This morning I was walking near the (indistinct) falls, I told, "This is the best place for practicing yoga." Yoga cannot be practiced in a fashionable way in a big city with (indistinct) meditation. That is not possible. He must be free from everything, and in a secluded place, alone, he should meditate on the Supreme Lord. That is real yoga. Controlling all the senses, all disturbances of the mind. Then it is perfect yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1).
Dr. Sharma: Swamiji, how different is this Chapter Six different from the Patañjali's yoga-śāstra and the rāja-yoga?
Prabhupāda: I don't think there is any.
Dr. Sharma: There is no difference.
Prabhupāda: There is no fundamental difference. The same. Bhagavad-gītā recommends that you should select a very secluded place in a solitary sacred place, you should make your āsana, sit down perpendicularly, don't close your eyes completely, half open, and concentrate on the tip of the nose. Everything is there. "And then think of Me." But Arjuna said, he said, "Oh, it is not possible." He was a frank gentleman. He was not a hypocrite. He said that "You are recommending all these yoga practice, it is not possible for me. I am a politician, I have to execute so many other businesses. I cannot go to the secluded place and sit down like this. So you are recommending me for yoga practice, but I say I cannot." But at the present moment, they have become more than Arjuna. (laughs) What Arjuna denied, they want to practice. This is another hypocrisy. Arjuna was not an ordinary man. He was so exalted that he could speak with Kṛṣṇa directly, and coming from royal family, and he's famous as great fighter. He refused, "I cannot do that." And we are taking to yoga practice. We have become more than Arjuna. This is going on. He does not think himself that "Arjuna is such a great personality, he thought himself to be incapable to practicing yoga, and we are making a show of yoga, paying somebody large amounts of money"? That's all. This is going on.
- kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ
- tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ
- dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ
- kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt
- (SB 12.3.52)
What was achievable by practicing yoga, that was possible... You are going?
Mr. Furman: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda. Thank you for your kindness.
Mr. Furman: Pleasure meeting you.
Prabhupāda: So in the Kali-yuga, this age, so many difficulties, social, political, religious, cultural. So in Kali-yuga the practice of yoga is not possible. It was possible in the Satya-yuga. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. That is meditation. That was possible in the Satya-yuga. But in Kali-yuga you can do that, the same achievement you can have by hari-kīrtana, by chanting the holy name of the Lord. And factually you'll find our, these disciples, young boys and girls, they are not practicing in a secluded place the yoga system. They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And bring any yogi in the world and talk with them and see the comparison. Because that is fashion only; it has no practical value. And here is practical value. Maybe one or two are successful, but mass of people, yoga practice is not recommended. That is not possible to be executed. But if you take to this hari-kīrtana movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, very soon, kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. You see practically. They are young boys and girls. At least, they have given up the four principles of sinful life and they are practicing, and they will improve. If they stick to the principles, they will improve.
Dr. Sharma: According to yoga, a yogi becomes
- sama-duḥkha-sukhaḥ svasthaḥ
- sama-loṣṭāśma-kāñcanaḥ
- tulya-priyāpriyo dhīras
- tulya-nindātma-saṁstutiḥ
Can it be achieved by saṅkīrtana?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything will be achieved. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, one becomes liberated from all sinful reaction of life, and he goes back to home, back to Godhead. Mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. That is the recommendation.