Guest (1): May I ask a question, Prabhupāda? Something that I've wondered about, perhaps you could explain it briefly. I believe that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme God, so don't get me wrong, but since you mentioned Christ, was he an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa? Was Jesus Christ sent here by Kṛṣṇa from...
Prabhupāda: He says that he is son of God; that is accepted.
Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa was Christ's father then.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa is father, and Christ is the son.
Guest (1): I understand it now. I just wondered.
Prabhupāda: He said "I am son of God." Yes.
Guest (1): And when he spoke of his father in heaven, he was speaking of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is, yes.
Guest (1): I understand. It all fits together now.
Indian man (7): Swamiji, how could you convince these Christian people that Christ was the son of God, or Kṛṣṇa was the...
Prabhupāda: Christ says himself that "I am the son of God." (laughter)
Indian man (7): Many Christians, they do not...
Prabhupāda: Many Christians also... There are so many Christian editions. That is another thing.
Bali-mardana: We have accepted.
Prabhupāda: But all these Christians, they all my students, they are coming from Christian. How they accept Kṛṣṇa as the father?
Guest (1): Prabhupāda, did Christ return to the spiritual planets then, when he left the earth, to be with Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: He is coming from spiritual planets. He is authorized representative of Kṛṣṇa, we accept him as śaktyāveśa-avatāra. So I was invited in some priestly meeting in Melbourne, they asked me the question, "What is your opinion of Christ?" So I said "He's our guru." (laughter) Actually, we accept him as our guru. He's preaching God's message; he's Vaiṣṇava. Anyone who accepts God, he's Vaiṣṇava. He was explaining kingdom of God, God. So according to time, circumstances, audience... Now we can just imagine what kind of people he had to deal with, that his commandment is "Thou shall not kill." Then understand how much they were accustomed to killing. So what kind of men they were? And not only that, in spite of hearing his instruction "Thou shall not kill," they killed him first. So what kind of men they were, just imagine. He said, "Thou shall not kill," and they decided, "We shall kill you first." So this class of men he had to deal with.
Guest (1): What would happen to the people that killed Christ on the cross? Very bad, it seems.
Prabhupāda: Christ cannot be killed, but they killed themselves.
Devotee (3): So we read that Christ said "I and my father are one," so they say therefore Christ is Kṛṣṇa, so therefore Kṛṣṇa can't be God.
Prabhupāda: "One" means in quality. And in the Vedic literature we say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That means we are one in quality. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. So now we are material-bhūtaḥ, jīva-bhūtaḥ. When we realize that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul, I am part and parcel of God," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ. Then bhakti begins.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
Then he enters into Vaikuṇṭha, after Brahman realization. So Lord Buddha's finished?
Prabhupāda: Go on, finish it.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse. Because the asuras or the so-called scholars of Vedic literatures put forward the evidence of animal killing in the Vedas, Lord Buddha superficially denied the authority of the Vedas. This rejection of the Vedas by Lord Buddha was adopted..."
Prabhupāda: Just like, you said that in the Vedas there is animal killing, therefore... (break) That was not killing. So, instead of wasting his time he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." You cannot open slaughterhouse giving reference to the Vedas, or any sacrifice either. The Jews, and everyone, the Muhammadans, they also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It's not that they recommend open a slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing, there will be a class of men who will eat meat—to give them some concession. So this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this goddess Kālī-worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, the dark moon night, one day in a month, at the dead of night. So if one goes on eating meat in this way, one day in a month and dead of night, then he'll automatically give it up. "So much botheration, better give it up." Actually deny. "Yes, you can eat once in a month at the dead of night, when everyone will sleep, nobody can hear the screaming of the animal..." These are the recommendations. That is indirectly denying. If one is intelligent, he'll accept it, "Why so much botheration for eating meat? Better give it up."
Indian man (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are so many gurus...
Prabhupāda: We are not talking of so many gurus, we are talking of real guru, that's all, real guru. Real guru is he who talks in disciplic succession of Kṛṣṇa. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). That is guru. The bumifor(?) guru is no guru. Avaiṣṇavo gurur na syāt. Anyone who is not Vaiṣṇava, he's not guru. First, He says in the Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavān, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Find out this. He is guru, who is preaching what Kṛṣṇa has taught, he's guru. Not that anyone and everyone becomes a guru. If you want to be cheated by such rascal guru, that is your business, but who is guru, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone who preaches the teachings of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "You become a guru on My order." "How shall I become guru? I have no knowledge." Oh, you don't require any knowledge to manufacture. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "Simply repeat the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, you become guru." Everyone can become. The instruction is there. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We say the same thing. Not that "I have become Kṛṣṇa, not..." We say "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Then you become guru. Kṛṣṇa's instruction, not to become Kṛṣṇa. If you want to become Kṛṣṇa, then you are not guru, you are cheater. Suppose you are working for master. If you say "My master has fixed up this price; you cannot change it," then you are honest salesman. And if you place yourself that "I am the master," then you are cheater. The cheater cannot be teacher. Teacher is he who simply teaches what Kṛṣṇa has said, that's all. He is teacher. That is not difficult. Anyone can do it. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Whomever you meet, you simply speak to him the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Then you become guru. And if you don't say that, if you manufacture your own words, then you are cheater, you are not teacher. The so-called gurus, they're cheaters. They want to become Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are cheater. And it is very easy thing if you cheat people, that "You take this mantra and you become God." Is it so easy thing to become God? But they want to be cheated. "Purchasing mantra, I shall become God." They want to be cheated. They do not think that "Whether I can actually become God." They do not take the weight of His existence. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Time? So what is the time now?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eight o'clock, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotees: (Offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: Prasādam. (Hindi for a few seconds) (end)