Rāmeśvara: He's a good friend of ours, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He helps us in many legal affairs.
Prabhupāda: So if he wants to come forward. (break) Go on reading.
Hṛdayānanda: "When the mind is in the mode of goodness, his activities are good; when the mind is in the mode of passion, his activities are troublesome; and when the mind is in the mode of ignorance, he travels in the lower species of life. It is clear, however, in this verse, that the conditioned soul is covered by..."
Prabhupāda: Ignorance means completely lost of all independence. That is ignorance. Complete loss of, even little intelligence, all lost. In the modes of passion, there is little independence, and in the modes of goodness, he has got full independence whether to remain in the struggle for existence or go back to home, back to Godhead. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. That is real knowledge platform.
Hṛdayānanda: (reading:) "This material covering perishes, but his spiritual body manifests in its individual capacity. The following information is there in the Mādhyandināyana-śruti: sa vā eṣa brahma-niṣṭhā idaṁ śarīraṁ martyam atisṛjya brahmābhisampadya brahmaṇā paśyati brahmaṇā śṛṇoti brahmaṇaivedaṁ sarvam anubhavati. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He can hear and speak to Him face to face, and he can understand the Supreme Personality as He is. In smṛti also it is understood that in the spiritual planets everyone lives in bodies featured like the Supreme Personality of Godhead's body. As far as bodily construction is concerned, there is no difference between the part-and-parcel living entities and the expansions of Viṣṇumūrti. In other words, at liberation the living entity gets a spiritual body by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The word mamaivāṁśaḥ, 'fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord,' is also very significant. The fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is not like some material broken part. We have already understood in the Second Chapter that the spirit cannot be cut into pieces. This fragment is not materially conceived. It is not like matter which can be cut into pieces and joined together again. That conception is not applicable here because the Sanskrit word sanātana, 'eternal,' is used. The fragmental portion is eternal. It is also stated in the beginning of the Second Chapter that dehino 'smin yathā—in each and every individual body, the fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is present. That fragmental portion, when liberated from the bodily entanglement, revives its original spiritual body in the spiritual sky in a spiritual planet and enjoys association with the Supreme Lord. It is, however, understood here that the living entity, being the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is qualitatively one, just as the parts and parcels of gold are also gold."
Prabhupāda: Sometimes the atheists, they say there is no soul-intuition. So we do not accept this proposal. The soul, when he is in particular situation, he remembers immediately what he has to do. Just like the small puppies, they have not even opened the eyes, but still, immediately after birth they're searching after food and goes immediately to the nipples of the mother. So how he goes there? They say it is intuition, but it is not intuition. The soul, being put into that body, immediately remembers all the activities of the body. Just like in Los Angeles. When I am in tour in other places I forget about Los Angeles, but as soon as I come here, I know where is my bedroom, where is my sitting room, where is my garden, immediately. I haven't got to be taught that "Here is your sitting room, here is your sleeping room." Immediately, I remember. Similarly, this living entity is transmigrating from time immemorial in different types of body. So as soon as he comes to a particular type of body he remembers the activities immediately. They are interpreting as intuition—that is not intuition. It is old remembrance. This is the explanation.
Rāmeśvara: But then there is an argument, if we were originally in the spiritual world, why don't we remember that and try to go back to the spiritual world?
Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that when I am in tour in Europe and India, I completely forget about Los Angeles. I act according to the circumstances there. And again when I come to Los Angeles, I immediately remember. This is natural. Out of sight, out of mind.
Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we don't have to learn the activities of our spiritual body?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when you are revived. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that now you have got this human form of body, you get up to your original position. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta varan nibodhata. This is the Vedic injunction. Jīva jāgo jīva jāgo, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Jīva jāgo jīva jāgo gauracanda bole kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. How long you'll sleep? Here is the opportunity. Try to understand yourself. That is self-realization. And go back to home, back to Godhead. Why you are struggling here? Kṛṣṇa is coming. He is also saying the same, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why you are rotting in this material world? So for spiritual awakening there are so many attempts by God Himself, by His devotees, by books, so many ways. But we are not inclined. That is our fault.
Gopavṛndapāla: To take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the real survival of the fittest.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa saying, coming, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Real dharma is to remain subordinate to Kṛṣṇa as servant. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). So we have forgotten it. This is dharmasya glāniḥ. Dharma means characteristics. It is not a faith; it is a fact. So our characteristic is that we are eternal servant of God. When we forget this characteristic, that this is my original characteristic, that is adharma. That is dharmasya glāniḥ. So yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). When there is discrepancy in the matter of discharging dharma, my occupational duty, then there is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So one has to take it, then he's fortunate. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. He's rotating within this universe, up and down. So if he's fortunate enough, he takes to this movement. It is an opportunity.
- ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva
- guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja
- (CC Madhya 19.151)
The seed of devotional service he gets by the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. So if you lose this opportunity, then you have to suffer. (to a guest) How do you think?
Guest: How do I think?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.
Guest: Is it possible for one to know how many lifetimes it takes to reach spiritual perfection?
Prabhupāda: Immediately, he can take. Provided that he accepts. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Find out this verse. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ.