Dr. Gerson: That's what psychology's been trying to teach people: to do whatever they want to do because they have the power.
Prabhupāda: That's... But can he do anything as he likes?
Dr. Gerson: That's right.
Prabhupāda: If he... As he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig. "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. But this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be: "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years." How can you stop it? Wherefrom these varieties of life are coming? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is kāraṇam, that he is associating with different modes of material nature and he is getting a suitable body. So where is that science to understand this subtle work of nature? Where is that science? Where is that education in the universities? You are not free. You cannot say "that I shall live life like this." You can live, but take the risk of next life. Therefore they avoid this question: "There is no next life." That is very horrible. But that does not mean... Just like the, what is that animal? Closes the eyes?
Jayatīrtha: Ostrich.
Prabhupāda: Ostrich. When there is danger, it closes eyes: "No danger." But that does not mean no danger. The danger is there. You may close your eyes. This is going on. The whole education system is foolish. Because they are thinking independent.
Bahulāśva: Now we can change that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with this college. We can get our men in all religious departments.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our duty, to give them knowledge. The knowledge is there. The candidates are there. Only the guardians should be sane, that "Save the children." Otherwise they will produce only hippies. That's all. (break) So long you will work on the mental plane, then the tendency will be that "Let me refute you, and I become prominent." And he will think that "Let me refute him. I become." This business will go on. But there will be no end of philosophy. So what is the use of such philosophy, simply continually go on mentally speculating, no conclusion? Philosophy means, "Here is the conclusion."
Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes. Dr. Judah said in our whole course we can just defeat them, but we must know what they think also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that's all right. That you should know. They are advertised as big philosophers, so at least we can prove that they are not big philosophers. The big philosopher is Kṛṣṇa.
Bahulāśva: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Bahulāśva: In Īśopaniṣad you say, "The self-sufficient philosophy. That is Kṛṣṇa."
Dharmādhyakṣa: Also, should this college have men and woman or just men?
Prabhupāda: No, why? Everyone. We have no such discrimination. But not cats and dogs. (laughter) Human being. Never mind what he is.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Māyāpur you were speaking about you wanted Māyāpur to become a college for the University of Calcutta?
Prabhupāda: No, why Māyāpur? Everywhere. The whole educational system should be changed.
Bahulāśva: We should take it over.
Prabhupāda: Not changed. At least this will remain as a departmental knowledge.
Bahulāśva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible to make wholesale change, but at least let them accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness as a departmental knowledge.
Bahulāśva: We were wondering if Ravīndra-svārupa could come and help on this project. Because if we can get established in Berkeley first... It's such a big university.
Prabhupāda: Yes, do that.
Bahulāśva: We could be respected everywhere else.
Prabhupāda: Do that. Whoever can help this.
Jayatīrtha: We need to have a certain number of Ph.D.'s, is it?
Bahulāśva: We need at least five.
Prabhupāda: Five Ph.D.'s?
Bahulāśva: Ph.D.'s to start.
Prabhupāda: Oh, we have got. We have got Ph.D.
Dharmādhyakṣa: We need five to be accredited. We don't need five to start, but to get accreditation.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. How many we have got?
Jayatīrtha: Ravīndra-svārupa is one, and Svarūpa Dāmodara is two.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ravīndra-svārupa is not yet a Ph.D.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh. How long? Another year yet.
Prabhupāda: They said, no, that they have got five, six Ph.D.'s
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mādhava.
Jayatīrtha: Richard. And Dr. Judah will be one?
Bahulāśva: If you like, Dr. Judah said he will help teaching in this?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Bahulāśva: You like, Dr. Judah said he will help?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. If he appreciates our movement, then he can become.
Dharmādhyakṣa: So what we need, Prabhupāda, is whoever has an advanced degree to come to the college and to teach.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Like even Dāmodara here, prabhu. He has a master's degree.
Prabhupāda: He has already proposed that he wants to give up his service and fully work for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Jayatīrtha: Svarūpa Dāmodara?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This... Just now we have received that letter. He doesn't like. He is now realizing, "What I am searching after, false thing?"
Devotees: Jaya!
Dharmādhyakṣa: If Svarūpa Dāmodara could come, that would be very good.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dharmādhyakṣa: This Dr. Gerson, he comes to āratik and he likes to chant and dance.
Prabhupāda: This doctor?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So convert him also to be a devotee. Then that is another PhD.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, yes. He said he would love to come and teach at our college.
Prabhupāda: Very good. But he must give up his bad habits, illicit sex, meat-eating. At least they must give up.
Dharmādhyakṣa: He is giving them up. He says that he is becoming more sensitive.
Prabhupāda: If he chants, then he is purified.
Dharmādhyakṣa: He realizes this. All his psychologist friends, they are just crazy. They are not solving any problem.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. (end