Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there. The soul is being transferred from one body to another. Asatims caturam caiva laksams jīva jātiṣu.(?) Jāti means the form of the body. So the form of the body is already there, and the living entity is being transferred from one body to another. This is called transmigration. We have come here, not that that room developed. This room is here, that room is there, but I am transferring. Because they have no idea of soul, they are thinking that this nice room, now transform into this room or this room, transform... This is foolishness. A civil man transferred into jail—not that his civil house becomes jail. They are thinking wrongly like that, Darwin's theory. Body becoming changed. No. The different types of bodies are already there. The living entity is being transferred from one body to another. Just try to explain. So evolution you take that this apartment is better than that apartment, that apartment better than, and a living entity's going from one after another. So this is evolution. That you are now getting salary, one thousand dollar, now you get fifteen hundred dollars. So according to your qualification, you are getting.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When we talk about evolution, in our understanding, evolution is evolution of consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We say karma. Evolution of karma. So karma is also based on consciousness. If you like to do a particular type of work, that can be changed, consciousness.
Rūpānuga: We can give them some examples. There's no harm, is there? To give them some example of different kinds of work and activity?
Prabhupāda: Just like eating. You are eating meat, you can give it up. If you think it is not good, you can give it up. What is the wrong there?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you think giving examples, or like making a division of these animals under category of these three modes is not proper? After all, all the modes are mixed. Now can we say that a cow is, although there are other modes, but predominantly the mode of goodness?
Prabhupāda: Predominantly ignorance. Cow, just like cows, or, yes...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows, then tigers, lions we can give predominantly passion. Now coming to either camels or pigs we can call ignorance.
Prabhupāda: So many, very subtle, subtle mixture. That subtleness of mixture is impossible for you to analyze.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that's true. So we shouldn't do this?
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said daiva-netreṇa, superior administration. You cannot do it.
Rūpānuga: We have to simply teach them that evolution really means some...
Prabhupāda: It's taking place in this way, that's all. That much you can say. You cannot actually analyze a particular body, what percentage of this or... That's impossible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, we are not analyzing, but we're just giving this by seeing from practical example.
Prabhupāda: That is already there, one life after another. That is already there by superior arrangement. Very fine arrangement, exactly to the percentage of different qualities, the body is already there. Simply the soul has to be put into that body by superior arrangement. Say, first-class passenger, what does he require? The apartment is already made by expert, what is needed for a first-class passenger?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He needs some more money. He must be rich to get a first-class apartment.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but so far arrangement, just like Western hotels, everything is so complete. They know what a first-class man wants. So expert. They have already made. You don't require to say anything, that "I want..." So complete. But the steps are already mentioned. Aquatics, then plants, vegetation, then insects, reptiles, then birds, then beasts. These are the gradual...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we'd like actually to bring out very clearly why the swan is different from a crow. What is it. What makes it different. Why a swan behaves this way and a crow behaves this way.
Prabhupāda: According to combination of these modes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why we want to bring out, that modes of nature, that can explain so many things so nicely, the difference, but science has no background on that.
Prabhupāda: That means you have to analyze different bodies. But that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which apartment is better than the other apartment, there is description. Just like a dog's body is so made that two furlongs away some newcomer is coming, immediately he will bark, he can immediately understand, perceive. He can smell that "Somebody is coming who is not known to me." Is it not? So he has got that special quality. Even in animals we will find. A fish in the water, two miles away there is some enemy, they can understand by touch.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science calls those chemical senses.
Prabhupāda: These are described in the Bhāgavata, the different perception of different senses, how one is prominent in one animal body. That is described.
Rūpānuga: That is coming? That is not yet printed? I don't remember that description.
Prabhupāda: No, I think that in the Third Canto. In Third Canto there is. You can consult Third Canto. One sense is prominent.
Rūpānuga: Like you have the example the tongue for the fish, an elephant, his genital, and you gave some other, these are there in the Bhāgavatam. The deer, the ear.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's due to the combination of the modes, as a result of the mixing of the three modes in different percentage. So we can even just mention like that in this,
Prabhupāda: That you can take from the authoritative statement you find.