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So this earth and all is made out of Krsna, but is not Krsna?

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"So this earth and all is made out of Krsna, but is not Krsna"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

It is not Kṛṣṇa. Or you can say, Kṛṣṇa and not Kṛṣṇa simultaneously. That is our philosophy. One and different. You cannot say different because these things without Kṛṣṇa has no existence. At the same time you cannot say, "Then let me worship water. Why Kṛṣṇa?" That the pantheists, they say, that "Because everything is God, so whatever I take, that is God worship." The Rama-Krishna Mission says like that. But that's wrong.
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Śyāmasundara: Just like, aren't the planets in this universe the sun's energy, a product of the sun's energy?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But who produced the sun? That is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Because it is heat, and Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Analaḥ, analaḥ, heating. "That is My energy." The sun is representation of the heating energy of Kṛṣṇa. It is not your energy. You cannot say that "The sun is made by me." But somebody must have made. And Kṛṣṇa says. So we believe therefore Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are Kṛṣṇa-ites.

Bob: Kṛṣṇites.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our knowledge is perfect. You cannot say... If I say that "Heat is energy of Kṛṣṇa," you cannot defy it. Because it is not your energy. Just like in your body there is some certain extent of heat. Similarly... Heat is somebody's body's energy. And who is that body? That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, it is My energy." So my knowledge is perfect. Therefore I am the greatest scientist. Because I take the version of the greatest scientist, therefore I am greatest scientist. I may be fool personally, but because I take the knowledge from the greatest scientist, I am greatest scientist. I have no difficulty.

Bob: Excuse me?

Prabhupāda: I have no difficulty to become the greatest scientist. Because I take the knowledge from the greatest scientist. (pause) (break) "This earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and ego—they are My eight separated energies."

Bob: They're separate energies?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Separated.

Prabhupāda: Separated. Separate, no? Just like this milk. What is this milk? The separated energy of the cow. Is it not? It is the manifestation of the separated energy of cow.

Śyāmasundara: Is it like a by-product?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bob: So what is the significance of this energy being separated from Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Separated means this is made out of the body of the cow, but is is not cow. That is separation.

Bob: So this earth and all is made out of Kṛṣṇa, but is not Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: It is not Kṛṣṇa. Or you can say, Kṛṣṇa and not Kṛṣṇa simultaneously. That is our philosophy. One and different. You cannot say different because these things without Kṛṣṇa has no existence. At the same time you cannot say, "Then let me worship water. Why Kṛṣṇa?" That the pantheists, they say, that "Because everything is God, so whatever I take, that is God worship." The Rama-Krishna Mission says like that. But that's wrong.

Bob: The Rama-Krishna Mission says that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the Māyāvādīs. "Because everything is made of God, therefore everything is God." That is their... But our philosophy is everything is God, but not God also.

Bob: So what on earth is God? Is there anything on earth that is God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because it is made out of the energy of God. (pause) But (that) does not mean that anything you worship, you worship God.

Bob: So what is on earth, though, is not māyā. It is...

Prabhupāda: māyā means energy.

Bob: It means energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. māyā, another meaning: illusion. So foolish persons, the energy is accepted as the energetic. That is māyā. Just like sunshine. Sunshine enters your room. Sunshine is the energy of the sun. But because the sunshine has entered in your room you cannot say the sun has entered. If sun enters, then your room and yourself, everything will be finished immediately. (laughter) You'll not have the leisure to understand that sun has entered. Is it not?

Bob: It is so.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that sunshine is not sun. But without sun, where is the sunshine? So you cannot say sunshine is not sun. But at the same time it is not sun. It is sun and not sun, both. That is our philosophy. Acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable. In the material science you cannot conceive that a thing simultaneously positive and negative. That you cannot think. That is inconceivable energy. And because everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy, Kṛṣṇa can manifest Himself from any energy, and act. Therefore, when we worship Kṛṣṇa made of something of earth, water, or something like that, that is Kṛṣṇa, that is not Kṛṣṇ... You cannot say it is not Kṛṣṇa. When you worship this metal form of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. Because metal is energy of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is non-different from Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can present Himself fully in His energy. So this Deity worship is not heathenism. It is actually worshiping God, provided you know the process.

Bob: If you know the process, then the Deity becomes Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not becomes, it (is) Kṛṣṇa.

Bob: The Deity is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bob: But only if you know the process of it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this electric wire is Kṛṣṇa..., er, is electricity. One who knows the process he can derive electricity out of it.

Śyāmasundara: Otherwise it's just wire.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Bob: So if I build a statue of Kṛṣṇa, it is not Kṛṣṇa. But if I, unless I know the process...

Prabhupāda: No, it is Kṛṣṇa. But you have to know the process that it is Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa.

Bob: It is not just earth and mud, it is Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: No, earth... Earth has no separate existence without Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "It's my energy." You cannot separate the energy and the energetic. It is not possible. You cannot separate heat from fire. But fire is different from the heat. And heat is different from the fire. You are taking heat, that does not mean you are touching fire. Fire, in spite of expanding heat, it keeps its identity. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa by His different energies creating everything, He remains Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think, "If Kṛṣṇa is everything, then Kṛṣṇa's separate identity is not there." That is material thinking. Just like drinking this milk, so little, little, when I finish, there is no more milk. It has gone to my belly. Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Because He's omnipotent, we are utilizing His energy continually, but still He's there, present. Just like a man begetting children unlimitedly, but the man is there. Crude example. But not that because he has produced hundreds of children, therefore he is finished. So similarly, God or Kṛṣṇa, in spite of His unlimited number of children, He's there. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is never finished. (break) ...so powerful, therefore He is attractive. This is one side of the display of Kṛṣṇa's energies. Similarly, He has got unlimited energies. This study of Kṛṣṇa's energy is only one side, one portion only. So in this way if you go on studying Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a bogus thing, that "maybe," "perhaps not." Absolutely. It is.

Marc +  and Rishab +
July 25, 0011 JL +
July 22, 0012 JL +
BG: 0 +, SB: 0 +, CC: 0 +, OB: 0 +, Lec: 0 +, Conv: 1 +  and Let: 0 +