Prabhupāda: Anyway, you can count, yes. (break)
Siddha-svarūpa: There are a lot of devotees here who follow the principles but cannot completely... (break) ...shaved up, and they still wear karmī clothes pretty much, but they're clean, they're devotees, and in this way they're attracting many of the local people, because they're able to relate to them.
Prabhupāda: So that...
Siddha-svarūpa: They're not lowering your standard.
Prabhupāda: No, naturally, but when they are initiated they must shave. They must keep to the standard. If one becomes initiated and he still keeps the hippie form, that does not look nice. Do you think that is all right? No, that is not good. So long they are coming as outsider, joining kīrtana, they may have their own dress, it doesn't matter. They are coming to kīrtana, that must be (indistinct). But when they are to be initiated, they must follow the rules and regulations given by the spiritual master.
Siddha-svarūpa: So...
Prabhupāda: Otherwise they should not be initiated. It is simple thing. Let them go on chanting, taking prasādam; we have no (indistinct). But when they are to be initiated, they must follow. This is the clear (indistinct). If you don't want to disturb them, let them come, chant, dance, take prasādam We have no objection. But don't recommend them for initiation unless he agrees to the rules and regulations given by the spiritual master. Where is the wrong? Where is the difficulty? You can talk with him like that.
Siddha-svarūpa: I think they only feel that because...
Prabhupāda: No feeling, if you..., when you are surrendering to the spiritual... Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). Find out this verse. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā.
Hari-śauri:
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
"Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Enquire from him submissively..."
Prabhupāda: Mm? Where are they? Mm.
Hari-śauri: "Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Enquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth."
Prabhupāda: You have to submit. You cannot remain independent. That is the first condition. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ, śiṣya. Śiṣya means voluntarily accepting the rules offered by the spiritual master. That is śiṣya: "Ah, yes, I agree to abide by your order." Then he becomes śiṣya. Otherwise where is the question... "I am thinking like this, I am thinking..." So long you are thinking otherwise, you don't try to become a śiṣya. You remain outside and you are welcome: chant, dance, take prasādam, and remain independent. There is no objection. But when you become śiṣya, then you cannot remain independent. These things convince him. Then you don't become śiṣya. Remain as friend, there is no harm. Just like so many people, they come. So if these things (indistinct). One thousand twenty, checks (indistinct). This way. What is the wrong there?
Hari-śauri: So then part of initiation means that you're prepared to do something more than simply chant and eat prasādam?
Prabhupāda: Initiation means to follow instructions of the spiritual master. That is the first (indistinct) And if there is still hesitation to surrender to the rules and regulations, then all other (indistinct).
Siddha-svarūpa: I think it is pretty clear, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's just for clarification, that they're working, they have a store on..., a very nice store, they're distributing foodstuffs to all the other stores on the island, and they're working a lot within the society with the karmīs, I guess. So their thinking is that "If we shave our heads and wear robes, like that, then they'll look at us...
Prabhupāda: That is not... Because imitating. Officially don't chant. Who is prohibiting to chant? You can chant, you can dance, you can take prasādam.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can they actually say that "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is my spiritual master" if they haven't accepted all of the instructions?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can one actually say that my spiritual master is such-and-such person if I am not following all of the...
Prabhupāda: What is the use of following (indistinct). We have got that simple thing, you can follow. What is the use? False propaganda. Because you think that we could not accept... (indistinct) ...we are trying to follow the (indistinct).