Mrs. Wax: I realize that we're all considered spirit souls. But can a woman be first-class if she...
Prabhupāda: Anyone can become first-class. Woman can become first-class if she is chaste and very much attached to husband. And if the husband is first-class, she becomes first-class. Because woman's duty is to follow husband. So if the husband is first-class, the wife is first-class, if she sticks to the husband.
Mrs. Wax: But she can never be first-class unless she has a first class husband.
Prabhupāda: No, she is first class by following faithfully husband. And if the husband is first-class, then woman is first-class.
Mrs. Wax: Could a woman be a temple president?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?
Mrs. Wax: Glad to hear it.
Prabhupāda: But because women are less intelligent, they should remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and first-class son. Then she is first-class. That is the injunction. Woman should remain dependent in childhood upon first-class father, in youthhood upon first-class husband, and in old age upon first-class son. Woman is never independent. If she becomes independent, her life is not very good. She must agree to remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and first-class son-three stages.
Mrs. Wax: She must become dependent on her son because her husband would ideally become a sannyāsī. Is that...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You will find that Kapiladeva is instructing mother. That picture you can show her. Third Canto? You see the picture in the cover? The first-class son is instructing mother. Her husband has taken sannyāsa and gone away. The son, first-class son, is instructing mother. That is the book. You will find full instruction to the mother. You can read one of the passages. You can read, Nitāi, what He is instructing to His mother. The mother is questioning, and son is answering.
Nitāi: Śrī bhagavān uvāca...
Prabhupāda: The mother first of all inquired? No.
Nitāi: Uh, you want me to start there.
Prabhupāda: Devahūti? The mother's name is Devahūti. And the son is celebrated as "son of Devahūti." The son is famous with the mother's name. And mother is taking instruction from the son. This is ideal society.
Nitāi:
- devahūtir uvāca
- nirviṇṇā nitarāṁ bhūmann
- asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt
- yena sambhāvyamānena
- prapannāndhaṁ tamaḥ prabho
"Devahūti said: I am very sick of the disturbance of my material senses, for because of this sense disturbance, my Lord, I have fallen into the abyss of ignorance." Tasya tvaṁ tamaso 'ndhasya...
Prabhupāda: There is no purport of Devahūti?
Nitāi: "Here the word asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt is significant. Asat means 'impermanent,' 'temporary,' and indriya means 'senses.' Thus asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt means 'from being agitated by the temporarily manifest senses of the material body.' We are evolving through different statuses of material bodily existence sometimes in a human body, sometimes in an animal body—and therefore the engagements of our material senses are also changing. Anything which changes is called temporary, or asat. We should know that beyond these temporary senses are our permanent senses, which are now covered by the material body. The permanent senses, being contaminated by matter, are not acting properly. Devotional service, therefore, involves freeing the senses from this contamination. When the contamination is completely removed and the senses act in the purity of unalloyed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we have reached the sad-indriya, or eternal sense activities. The eternal sensual activities are called devotional service, whereas temporary sensual activities are called sense gratification. Unless one becomes tired of material sense gratification, there is no opportunity to hear transcendental messages from a person like Kapila. Devahūti expressed that she was tired. Now that her husband had left home, she wanted to get relief by hearing the instructions of Lord Kapila."
Prabhupāda: So this full book is the answer and question between mother and son. So, although she is mother, she has given birth to the child, but she has become now dependent on this child for good instruction. This is ideal society.
Mrs. Wax: Thank you for answering my questions.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa.