Prabhupāda: You have to penetrate. You have to understand who has created this universe.
David Wynne: Yes. Yes. But if a great artist was no longer alive, people would still appreciate...
Prabhupāda: No, but the God is not like that, no longer alive.
David Wynne: No, but that's what I mean. The analogy falls down there, doesn't it.
Prabhupāda: God is not like that.
Śyāmasundara: But you're saying that it's better to first penetrate and understand God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Then understand the universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is perfect knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: Before understanding, trying to understand God by His universe.
David Wynne: And science almost denies the existence of God in order to exist, doesn't it?
Prabhupāda: That is a rascal. These rascals say like that. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is rascal number one. Immediately. And anyone, he may be a great scientist or philosopher, let him come. If he says that "I don't believe in God," then I shall prove that "You are rascal number one." That I shall prove.
Śyāmasundara: We'll bring you some scientists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So many scientists, psychologists, philosophers came to me.
David Wynne: But the greatest scientists have..., are the humblest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real knowledge, when one becomes humbler: "Oh, God is so great." That is real scientist. I think Professor Einstein, he admitted.
Mukunda: Yes, he said that "I want to know how God created the universe. Everything else is details."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means he's still thinking, "My knowledge is imperfect because I do not know about God." That is real scientist.