Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now most of these slides will appear in our book, the origin of life and matter, Life Comes From Life. Now Sadāpūta and myself made these slides. These are some of the... Only a few slides. We specifically want comments from your Divine Grace Śrīla Prabhupāda, whether these slides will be appropriate to be in the book. Now this is the philosophy between the difference between life and matter. So this is sāṅkhya philosophy. The principles and the philosophy, as Śrīla Prabhupāda comments in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the Third Canto, the sāṅkhya philosophy is especially meant for persons who are conditioned by this material world, and by understanding the science of devotional service and sāṅkhya philosophy, one can become free from the modes of material nature. So we want to impose that in order to understand the distinction between life and matter, one must at least have a glimpse of the Absolute Truth, at least some idea of the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is completely impossible to understand the difference between what is life and what is matter. That is why scientists nowadays are so much confused about the concept of life and matter. So in fact the scientist Orgell, in his book The Origin of Life, he starts with saying "What is life? The question 'What is life?' should not be inquired." He says...
Prabhupāda: One minute. That Absolute Truth is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Absolute Truth is that from whom everything comes into existence, everything emanates. Now that has been discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural commentary by the same author. So he begins janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). This word is used. He's not dead body, dead matter-abhijñaḥ, like that. In the beginning. That source of everything... Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). Just like a mother gives birth to a child. She knows everything, how the child was born in the womb, how it developed, how it is coming. At least, on the whole, she knows everything. Similarly, the original source of everything is immediately informed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that abhijñaḥ, experienced, knows everything. Anvayād itarataś ca, directly and indirectly, everything it knows. So the origin of everything cannot be a dead man. That is the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the scientists, since they do not know the Absolute Truth, they say such fundamental and most important questions, "What is life," should not be asked, say it is very unscientific. That is their verdict. But we say no, that shouldn't be the case. We say what is life should be inquired and it should be understood. Otherwise, how can one study the origin without knowing what it is? It is rather meaningless to study the origin of something which is not known.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we say, yes, the fundamental and basic requirement is to understand this basic difference between the two principles, life and matter. Now here the Absolute Truth, in the śloka,
- ity etat kathitaṁ gurvi
- jñānaṁ tad brahma-darśanam
- yenānubuddhyate tattvaṁ
- prakṛteḥ puruṣasya ca
- (SB 3.32.31)
The translation says, "My dear respectful mother, I have already described the path of understanding the Absolute Truth by which one can come to understand the real truth of matter and spirit and their relationship." So here it clearly says that in order to understand these basic principles, one must have at least some idea about the Absolute Truth. And it is quite scientific. Comparing our normal scientific disciplines like physics, chemistry and mathematics, in fact this very principle is utilized. But the scientists, not knowing that the axioms, or fundamental truths, are coming from the absolute source. So this is the basic requirement.
Prabhupāda: I have heard that mathematics believes by some imaginary thing, minus, so on, like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The absolute numbers?
Prabhupāda: Something minus one, like that. Who is mathematician here?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (laughs) Here is our mathematician.
Prabhupāda: All right, so is that the beginning of mathematics?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the beginning of mathematics?
Sadāpūta: Well, the beginning of mathematics is counting a number. We have that square root of minus one.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I heard. The beginning is minus one. That is imaginary; it is not fact. But they imagine something at the beginning.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In fact it is called imaginary number. Square root of minus one.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if mathematics begins with imaginary something, why not Absolute Truth? That Absolute Truth must be life. As Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He must be aware of everything. That means life. That means life. Now the question is how He became experienced? Svarāṭ, independent. Just like we require experience, knowledge, from somebody else. Experienced knowledge is not gained automatically, but the Absolute means that He is full of knowledge. How He got knowledge? Svarāṭ, independently. That is the description. You have to imagine at least like that. It is Vedic injunction, it is the fact, that Absolute Truth independently cognizant of everything. That is Absolute Truth.